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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can a marriage ever survive dv ??

515 replies

fairycakesandsprinkles · 06/03/2011 21:50

Have posted on here before about DH.
We hadn't been together very long before getting married and me falling pregnant and since we had DS I noticed a change in him which I didn't like very much.
He starting becoming aggressive and it escalated within a very short period of time, coming to a head when he punched me when I had our baby son in my arms Sad
This was the first time he had done anything like that and it shocked me to the core.
I moved out of our house the same night and everyone has told me not to look back but I can't help thinking about him all the time.
I know it might sound crazy but he knows that he made a huge mistake and is very remorseful.
He has been to see his GP and been referred for anger management.
He sends me texts telling me he loves me and he hopes that one day I can forgive him and we can be a family again.
I go round there several times a week to take DS and I can feel us getting closer.
I am wondering if a marriage can ever survive something like this?
Can someone really change or am I a complete fool for still believing in him?

OP posts:
winnybella · 12/03/2011 23:51

You feel you need to be supporting him?

Not giving up on him? Poor little darling, after all, it's not his fault that he likes to control you, rape you and punch you.

Oh, no.

You need to go and help him.

FGS.

I'm starting to wonder whether this thread is for real, tbh.

If it is, you will not be acting in your son's best interests if you go back to that wanker.

dittany · 12/03/2011 23:51

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doha · 12/03/2011 23:52

This is such a sad thread. I have just sta nd read throught it all.

Fairy you are totally in denial of the situation here. You have had tons of good advice but you chose to ignore it.
There is not a bit of doubt in my mind that you will go back to your DH he seems to have some sort of power ofver you to make you do such a quick u turn on your opinion and minimilization of past events.

There will be a repeat of his action in one form or another--l just hope your DS is not around to witness it to be affected by it.

I am sure your mother would be horrified if she knew the reasons you left.
I just feel so dreadfully sorry for your DS.

dittany · 12/03/2011 23:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 12/03/2011 23:55

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squeakytoy · 13/03/2011 00:01

Dittany is right.

I can almost hear exactly what he will have said to you.

He is so so sorry, he will never do it again. He loves you and would die for you. He is broken hearted that he hurt you and he knows it will never be repeated.

He needs you so much to help him, and without you he is nothing.

He needs your support to get through this and he cant bear life without you.

You are the most important person in his life, and he loves you so much...

He is saying everything that he knows you want to hear.

The next time you argue, it will all be your fault. You left him, you walked out.. and when he loses his temper it will be because he was scared you were going to walk out on him, like you did before, and its all your fault because you wound him up...

Its a classic pattern of abuse from a man who is violent to his partner.

A decent man does not hit a woman. A decent man has self control and would rather punch a wall in temper and break his own hand than hurt the person who is holding his baby.

BertieBotts · 13/03/2011 00:02

The problem is that if he's really going to change he needs to do it without your support. You are the very last person who can help him with this. He needs to do it by himself.

I know that sounds awful, to abandon someone you love just when they need your support the most, and it must make you feel helpless, to be told there is nothing you can do to help him, but when violence is involved the issues become very complicated and it changes the situation. There are so many avenues he could go down for support - a DV program would be the very best thing and he could be supported on this by his friends and family, his GP, others on the course. You have to give him the space he needs to work on this. And you need to know what it is to be free of him before you can truly have an equal relationship.

I know I keep banging on about this book but it does outline in there how you can support him, ways of "support" which are actually enabling rather than helping, and also how to tell if someone is really changing. It's a really valuable resource.

fairycakesandsprinkles · 13/03/2011 00:02

I have made mistakes too and he didn't give up on me so I don't see how I can do that to him.
I'm not as perfect as some people think, I've done some horrible things to him

OP posts:
dittany · 13/03/2011 00:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wannabesybil · 13/03/2011 00:07

Fairycakesandsprinkles - I think perhaps you need to take a step away from him, just for a short while. There are lots of places where he can get help, his GP will be able to point him in the right direction. Let him deal with his problems just for a while, he is a grown man.

Please please please put yourself first for a few days and just spend some time making a little distance. If all does go well (I am afraid I agree with the others, but I know you don't) then you can slowly start to make connections again.

How is your little boy doing? Are you managing to keep his routine going? Are there things you can do with him at your mum's or nearby? It is great to take him out and show him the daffodils at this time of year.

BertieBotts · 13/03/2011 00:07

You don't owe him anything, Fairy.

squeakytoy · 13/03/2011 00:08

Oh god love, have you hit him? have you made him so scared of you that he had to escape? Have you put your son in danger?

Everyone makes mistakes. Punching a woman who you are supposed to love is not a mistake!!!!!

You may think you have done horrible things to him (is that what he has told you that you have done?).. but that doesnt mean you should forgive him for what he has done to you.

TheVisitor · 13/03/2011 00:09

Fairy, you're feeling very defensive of him, and that's okay, because you love him. Whilst it's okay for you to call him all the names under the sun, it's very difficult to hear other people doing it and putting him down. I'm of the opinion that you need gentler handling at the moment. I'll stand by me saying stay where you are at the moment and don't be hurried into making any decisions whilst you feel so fragile. Concentrate on you and your baby. If you do decide to return to him (and I am with the others in hoping you don't), please insist on him having a check up at the GU clinic, as I am 100% positive that he will not have used a condom.

Just a last little bit - everyone makes mistakes, chick, but his was massive. He risked your little man's safety. Never forget that. x

blinks · 13/03/2011 00:13

from a child protection point of view, there is a possibility they would intervene if you knowingly put your child in a situation where domestic violence has taken place.

and rightly so.

while i empathise massively, i suggest you put your misplaced romantic feelings to one side and focus on your child.

Mamaz0n · 13/03/2011 00:20

nothing, NOTHING you have ever done is deserving him abusing you. NOTHING.

Look at it like this. When your baby is old enough to start weaning, you think to yourself "i know i will give him some xx" if 30 mothers of older children all came on and said Oh whatever you do, dont give him xx. I gave it to my child and he became terribly ill"

would you ignore them all thinking that your baby would be different to every single one of their babies? or would you trust that if they are all sayingh the same thing that maybe they are right?

Not one person on this thread thinks that going back to him is a good idea. That is very telling. particularly on MN as it doesn't happen very often. even on threads like this.

Also, i thin it is very telling that you have not spoken to your mother about this. Why not?

macdoodle · 13/03/2011 00:30

Silly girl, dont go back please, so many of us have been there for so long, listen to us.
It may not end up at the absolute extreme as above. i was with ym XH for 10 years, he "only hit me" a handful of times, and each time he and I excused it.
I do believe he loved me, as much as a narcissist loves anyone. I don't believe he "enjoyed" hurting me. But he did in so many millions of ways. I wasn't much older than you when I met him. I think I am a very different person I would have been.
His abuse was mostly emotional, verbal, controlling, financial. Until the end, when he kept me "captive" in my own kitchen for hours and hours berating me, and then when my phone rang, he flipped and tried to strangle me. The most terrifying night ever, my DD1 huddled under a table upstairs, my baby Dd2 asleep in her cot. what is he had killed me, what would have happened to my daughters. And yes social services were involved, lots of questions, luckily for me I am a local, fairly well respected GP, and it never went further, it could have.
A wonderful neighbour and friend called the police.
99% of the time, we were ok, happy maybe, passionate, had fun. 99% of the time! the other 1% he gradually destroyed me, liked dripping water, over 10 long years.
Don't be me, don't go back, live your life, be happy, be everything you can be.

mathanxiety · 13/03/2011 02:58

Fairycakes, tell your mum, for the love of god.
And go to Women's Aid and tell them. Please.

This is not you and him against the world.

Why are you protecting this man?
Why do you think you can help him?
Why do you think he loves you?
Why do you think anything you could possibly have done could = what he did to you/said to you?

My ears rang for days after exH hit me, and my neck ached and my temples stung where he pulled my hair. I never saw the punch coming. I thought we had reached some sort of equilibrium. I thought I had some sort of control over things. Reality was revealed to me in a split second. He did it because he did not love me. He did it because he wanted to hurt me and make me afraid of him the same way he wanted the children to fear him. Like Macdoodle, I felt I was gradually being destroyed. Like you, I thought what I had to give my exH was going to be enough.

Your heart is telling you to reach out to him but the drowning man rule applies here -- do not attempt to rescue him. Save yourself and call for backup. He will drag you under and you will both drown if you try to go it alone.

The best help you can give him right now is very clear boundaries and lots of space for himself.

You need to try to understand why your pride is so hurt by the OW he has consorted with, and you need to try to understand why you are willing to risk your own welfare for the sake of confidence or pride in your ability to help him. It is a huge blow to self pride (which is always false and never your friend) to realise that you can't help him and he will not change for your sake, but it really must be done here.

You don't want him to reject you, basically, and you are willing to forget everything and excuse everything just to avoid rejection. There's a difference between self esteem and the sort of pride you have here.

Fear of rejection and that sort of pride go hand in hand. This man needs someone who doesn't need him. If you are going to get to the point where you can help him you are going to have to work on yourself first. There is no shortcut to that point. You are going to have to get counselling for yourself and work on answering the questions about rejection, face your fears wrt relationships ending.

Anniegetyourgun · 13/03/2011 10:11

It is a statistic often quoted in this forum (from Women's Aid I think?) that on average a woman makes seven or eight attempts to leave an abusive relationship before it finally sticks. So I guess Fairycakes has a few to go... The only thing I would beg you, Fairycakes, is to make it absolutely clear to him that if you go back it is in order to give him a chance to change. Not to do it again, ever, but to remake the relationship the way it should have been. That means no hitting, no restraining you from tending to the baby, no treating you as anything less than a fair and equal adult partner. Nobody said you were a perfect angel! You are both human beings with the right to make mistakes - a courtesy you are granting him (though I'm with the school of thought that says it was one hell of a "mistake"). You have that right too, without fear of being clobbered for it. If he can get his head round this then there is hope. He should be aware that he's bloody lucky to have a chance to prove himself. Obviously the majority of posters here are very cynical about what he'll do with it... but the thing is you have to not only say, but mean with your whole heart, that if he ever does it again that is it, the end. I'll eat my much-abused virtual hat if he accepts this condition in the long term ("what, I don't have the right to get annoyed with you whatever you do? You're a bit of a nightmare yourself sometimes.."), but your conscience insists you give him the chance. Please though, as you are clearly set on doing so, make it just the one. No more bargaining away such terrible behaviour.

Love does not give you an excuse to treat your partner worse than you would treat anyone else. Indeed you should treat him or her better, don't you think? You are thinking what love means you should do for him, but missing what love means he should do for you.

Anniegetyourgun · 13/03/2011 10:11

Bloody asterisks. I was sure I did that bolding right.

Mamaz0n · 13/03/2011 10:48

I have been thinking about this all morning.
You refusal to see the comparison between your situstion and the story of the child in care.

I can understand that. It is denial, yes, but quite normal i think.

I have spoken on here many many times about the abuse i suffered. everyone is shocked and appalled. But actually, until i left i didn't even accept it as abuse.
I genuinly didn't.

Abuse was like you saw on the telly. Mine wasn;t liek that. I wasn't the meak and mild downtrodden woman. I am Mamazon. The big confident no nonesense woman with a career and plenty of self esteem.
we just argued because we had a passionate relationship. I would never let a man abuse me. no no no.

Even when i left i didn't want to go to the refuge. I didn't want to take the place of a woman suffering true DV. I just couldn't see that what i went through was what refuge was all about.
I did go to the refuge. i stayed for 6 months. But during that time i would take the children to see their dad. I would drive them to him. I would try and wait in the car but he would beg me to help bring them in, or help set the pushchair, or see something inside.
once inside i wouldnt get back out. not for hours. It would become just like before within minutes. he would start by begging me to stay and then get angry when i wouldn't.

It took 2 or 3 weeks to finally learn not to take the children there.

After 6 months at the refuge i found somewhere to live. After about 2 months of being in the new hme he found me. HE turned up at the door. I was so shocked i just let him in. he was sweetness itself. I convinced myself that my taking the children and giving him the space was enough. he had learned his lesson this time. he new i was serious. everything was lovely for a few weeks. Then there was something said, petty i am sure, and he kicked off. He raped me at knifepoint on the kitchen floor whilst my daughter sat screaming in her walker next to me.

When he left i decided that i wouldn't let him in again. enough was enough. But when he came back next time and i refused to let him in he kicked off. he was screamingoutside, kicking and punching trying tobreak the door down.
My neighbour called the police. police called the landlord. I was so terrified i would be evicted that i covered up for him. I said that it was a drunk who was shouting at me earlier in the day and i was rude to so he must have followed me home. (he had buggered off when he knew the police were on the way)

He would break in all the time after that. knowing i wouldn't speak up. A few times the police were called by neighbours because they could hear what he was doing to me through the walls. He would then hide whilst they were here whilst i lied about it. Tv was up too loud, neighbour must have been mistaken, kids were shouting etc etc.

When the police left he would come back and tell me what a good girl i was. If i really hated hiim i would have got him arrested and taken away, obviously i did love him. i just forgot, i was surpressing it. but deep down i new.

It took almost a year but my parents moved a long way away to a place i had never heard of. I picked up one day and left again. I fled my own home. i moved in with my parents which was horrific but it meant he had no clue where i was.

It took me a very very long time to finally get my head around it all. to see how being with him was chinese water torture. in teh begining you don't notice the odd drop. but after a while those little drops mount up and you end up drowning.

it has taken me a very very long time to understand it all.
Even now i will think back to something i thought innocent and realise that it was just another part of the abusive treatment.

What im very clumsily trying to show you is that it is perfectly normal to not recognise this stuff.
don't feel stupid.
But do trust those that have walked the path before you. You are stronger than i was. You left after the first act you recognised as violent. The fact that there were other abusive acts before is something that you wouldn't notice or recognise, they are designed to go unnoticed. that is the point. It is only because others are able to look at it without the emotion clouding our judgment, with the clarity hindsight can give.

If you want to return then that is fine. I will support you all the way. All i ask is that now you have taken this huge step you stay living seperatly until after he has completed the perpetrator courses. He needs time to work through why he does these things and you need to build your self esteem.

Your marriage wasn;t working. You both seem to want it to but it wasn't. spending time BOTH getting counselling and who knows. Maybe you will be able to buck the statistics and be happy ever after. but the only way that will ever happen is if you spend time apart and work on yourselves singularly.

If you are willing to do that then i will support your decision to try and make things work.

macdoodle · 13/03/2011 10:53

I think Mamazon a lot of us are moved by this thread, because we see ourselves. Our younger, innocent selves, before our lives were touched and damaged by men we loved, who were supposed to love us. We can see it now, and we desperately want to prevent it.
I don't think we can, if someone had told me 15 years ago/ my XH was abusive, I would have denied it and defended him till I was blue in the face, and continued to do so until finally I realised.
I hope with all my heart the OP can see and trust us, but I don't think she will.

Mamaz0n · 13/03/2011 11:32

exactly macdoodle.

It is very hard to see somone making the same mistake you did. knowing how it is likely to turn out and being powerless to stop it.

Mouseface · 13/03/2011 12:13
Sad

fairy

Why are you ignoring all the advice on here from women who have been in your shoes? And some more than once?

He won't hit you again because he doesn't like to hurt you and he loves you?

Really?

So why did he hit you the first time. Was that an off day? He didn't love you that day and felt like hurting you?

You are putting yourself and your son at risk if you stay with him.

Why do you want to stay with him? He's a great dad? Great husband? He makes you feel safe, happy and complete?

He respects you? Values you? Trusts you?

No fairy, he doesn't.

merrywidow · 13/03/2011 12:47

Fairy,

My H

belittled me
shouted
demanded sex
threatened to send kids away
slept with other women
tried to move another woman in our house
told me my friends couldn't care less
threw the dinner he didn't like at me
punched me in the face (once)

When I tried to leave

he became loving
he became sorry
said things I thought I wanted to hear from him
bought me a fancy car
talked to me nicely

When I stayed, he reverted to his old behaviour fairly quickly and so it went on for 15 years

Then he died after a breif illness

All i could think of at the time was IM FREE, IM FREE I will never have to go through any of it again.

I discovered MN after he died, had I found it before I think It would have made a difference, the women on here have experience; and that counts

Please listen

Mouseface · 13/03/2011 12:49

Merrywidow Sad but I'm glad you are free too xx