Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Oh blimey Dolly - you poor thing. You've been through such a lot and I admire your strength of character in not letting it define you (and note the 'she's exactly as I expected' line for future use).

I'm sure you don't need me to say it Dee, but your ex is an unreasonable arse. The problem with this kind of person is that they are so wrapped up in their own little world and unconcerned with others that they come across as very confident and centred and you end up being sucked into thinking that it's normal.

Sorry ? this is a quick one (though a long one ? wrote this up at work this morning after sesh with solicitor ? so not had a chance to reply properly to latest posts and on way to an exercise class before ex drops DS back off here). Sorry to be in a rush - will reply properly when I get back.
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All, thanks as always for the common sense, no nonsense talking to ? much appreciated?.I got another eye-opener from solicitor today who said that she had never heard of anyone having the amount of access ex has with DS ? even in an amicable split. It is er, highly unusual. Ex sees DS every day Mon-Thurs (either for pm nursery run and evening at his, or am run) and then 2 calls on Friday, sees him all day Saturday (or Sunday) and then another 2 calls on the weekend day he doesn?t see him. I have come to my senses now as she basically spelt out quite clearly that I am in danger of setting a precedent for ex?s behaviour if this continues in as much as he can turn around and say, well, we have had this set-up for the last 9 months and its worked fine, why change it now?..she did advise getting past DS birthday next week and then bringing up the whole access/contact issue and really hammer out all the details ? something I had been skirting around as I then have to face the reality of having whole weekends where I don?t see DS (or know what he is up to ? but I don?t really want to know) and negotiating holiday weeks where ex will take DS and new girlfriend on hols (though here?s hoping he?ll have run out of leave soon ? he is off again for another weekend in September ? at least had the decency to give me advance notice). She also mentioned that it is ?typical? for most judges to award 1 day a week and every other weekend if we went to court, though not guaranteed and she did say it would be best if we didn?t go down that route. So ex is rolling in access and his ?rights? (she also told me that this is about the rights of the child ? not the rights of ex to ease his guilt and conscious, or my rights either). Ultimately, I need to be as happy with the agreement as well as ex (who is obviously as happy as a pig in whatsit as can dip in and out of family life at his want and will and then slip into couple mode).

She also thinks (as you have all said at some point or another ? could have saved myself £300!) that this constant demand for daily access is more to do with his need to be seen as a good, hands on dad. In reality, it is excessive, intrusive and suffocating. I was with a friend at the weekend and she commented that comms I have with ex (albeit about DS) is more than she has with her DH! And, I am pretty sure that when he was away on business before this all happened he didn?t call/text half as much. Access is:

Mon ? AM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7.30am. PM: Ex does pm nursery run, has DS up to 7.30pm(he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Tues ? AM: Ex does am nursery run. PM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7.00pm (he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Weds ? AM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7.30am. PM: Ex does pm nursery run, has DS up to 7.30pm (he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Thurs - AM: Ex does am nursery run. PM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7.00pm (he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Fri ? AM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7.30am. PM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7pm (he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Sat ? AM: Ex picks DS up and has him all day, brings him home (he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Sun - AM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7.30am. PM: Ex phones to speak to DS at 7pm (he usually texts once or twice to ask how DS? day was and then later if DS has gone to bed okay ? I ignore and do not reply)

Writing this out ? it does not look good?.I have let ex basically just dictate his terms, wants and needs from the outset - no wonder he feels so entitled. I have obviously not done a thing to stop him?... And yet he moans on at me that I need to move on and stop directing my anger at him when he gets on my nerves?.he is constantly in my face/life as I am seeing now, quite clearly.

I do need to build up in my mind the idea of DS sleeping over there again now that new girlfriend is on the scene. Am slightly worried as DS was sent home poorly from nursery yesterday with a high temp and ex had to pick him up as I was in a meeting. Ex phoned me and asked me ?does Tescos sell Calpol??. He has nothing in the house for an ill child?..the only reason he has a thermometer is because I bought him one back in April when DS was with him and proceeded to throw up everywhere and was quite hot to touch??

I most certainly take the point of being a strong and positive female role model for my DS. I think I am sometimes prone to think in a mindset still back when I was struggling for a job, no confidence, no self-esteem and still reeling from my loss, devastation and grief. I am

So, I have sent him a very clear email ?stating that all texts (am, pm and late at night) are to stop; if anything urgent comes up with DS that needs his input (can?t think of anything), I will contact him as agreed on his mobile. We are both to assume that unless the other says something specific, that DS is fine. I don?t need to know how many poos he has done, but if he has been constipated/complaining of a sore tummy then to let me know. He is to do this during handover (will force him to use that big brain of his in remembering) so no need to send me any texts. I have also mentioned that the phone calls are not working ? this is clear. I have borrowed from Dolly?s wording and suggested that I can phone him if DS asks for him. He was ?supposed? to call this morning as per schedule for Weds am and did not call until 8.20am?.I ignored his call and he sent a text saying sorry, he had overslept as he has been out with some customers last night (so that?s alright then). I sent him the email at 12pm this afternoon and no reply?I do wonder if he is in deep discussion with new girlfriend on what his considered reply will be (email was very, very neutral. Not pally or emotional and totally no reference to us/affair etc).

I guess I have fallen for his pressure lines and him making me feel guilty about him not seeing DS (feel like I am losing the plot now!?!!!). So, I have conceded a lot ? probably a hell of a lot in retrospect. I feel like a bit of an idiot now?..I reckon I could have saved myself a lot of grief by making my position clear from the outset and sticking to my guns. I think he will now try and fight me on every single point. I honestly wish I had tackled this back before she arrived here as I will no doubt be doing battle with the two of them now?.any tips on how to do this/get through this?

Does you ex have DS every weekend? That is extremely unfair on you and needs stopping if so. Even more so when DS goes to school and evenings are taken up with homework/after school activities etc. I would start telling ex that every other weekend so you get time with DS moving forward and is more fair.

Apart from lovely bath and bed snuggles it means you have pretty limited time with your son.

As for during the week. If you are happy with your ex doing mornings then why not keep it?

If your son is happy with the calls from his dad then I think leave them too to be honest. If your son is not interested then it is only for ex's benefit and he doesn't bother when away I think so knock some on the head.

You are spot on with ignoring the texts though. Well done and keep it up (-:

If he phones up with stupid questions about what Tesco stocks tell him to go and frigging look like any other parent would have to and not to be a pussy and rely on you (more politely probably). He cannot depend on you for this he has to stand on his own feet. I know that sounds harsh as you feel your son may be the one to suffer, however he only suffers as long as it takes your ex to stop being such a stupid cock and get his finger out!

Oh and a little book/diary in a back pack for DS when you hand him over or at nursery.

All necessary information can go in there 'last gave calpol at 14:00' etc. Copies of nursery reports if he hasn't sorted getting them himself. That way there is even less need for texts and phone calls.

Hi Xales - thanks. Sorry, I may have confused things a bit - at the weekend, he has DS one day (e.g. the Sat) and then I have DS the other day (e.g. the Sun). So we both see him every weekend. Completely unsustainable, but seemed to work whilst new girlfriend was in the US. I strongly suspect that there will be murmurings about him having DS for a full weekend so that they can go away somewhere - probably to his folks (they have been down once since this all kicked off - back in April - his Dad is retired, his mum works in a shop and DS is their first born grandchild...for all their murmurings of missing him, they have not been down since and they only live slightly north of the border.....I feel gutted for DS in a way, even though I didn't get on that great with them. Ex just cannot see things as they are and idolises his dad - the person who told him to go off and be happy* and recounted to ex some story about some uncle who stayed in a deeply unhappy relationship until his daughter turned 18 at which point he walked out the door - all news to me! This is also the dad who knew about ex's affair as I spent last Christmas there and (it seems) didn't encourage ex to say boo to me about anything....).

Anyway, sorry, bit distracted there and off-topic - yes, calls are very hit and miss. Sometimes DS will speak - very briefly - but 8 times out of 10 he is not interested. As a median, have suggested that he phone only on those days he doesn't see DS, and even then, should only be once a day. Like Dolly, if DS suddenly starts to ask for ex one afternoon and he hasn't seen or spoken to him, then I could politely text and ask if he is free (politely only to keep the neutral 'don't give a shit about you' stance).

I was silent for a moment when he asked about Tescos (shame he didn't check for that when he was there on Friday supporting his new girlfriend in her quest to buy tampons/towels). More shock that he didn't have stuff in - resisted urge to have a go and just suggested that he get a supply in of essential items that he would need in the event DS ever fell ill or had an accident. Hoping he will do this, but ex is very knee-jerk (he has still not sorted out his will or even made enquiries, even though suspect as mentioned on here it will be invalid once he gets hitched) and doesn't have me on his back to 'nag' him like the old days....will leave it a bit and (again, politely) enquire how his stock of essential first aid items are.

Yep, will pursue the book idea (springy suggested something similar too).

• yes, ex really did tell me this.... back in the early days of nonsense talk. I am so glad that I made a note of some of his more inane sayings.....'you should think about why more people have affairs these days' is a classic......

Springy/Dolly - one of the best things about forums like these is that it does make me think - a lot.....I can see both sides here. I think I have given ex a bit too much leeway to do and say as he pleases tbh. I can see that more and more each day (which is good as it seems to break down any 'hold' or influence he has over me). I was very lax with my boundaries with ex from the outset (in RL, more kinder folk would tell me 'you are so good to do x, y, z. You are doing more than I would etc', others who are more blunt would say 'take back control. Dont let him dictate things to you' etc etc. Though of course its easy to say what you would/wouldn't do if you are not in that situation...). I do wonder if I had been stricter whether this situation would have played out as is has...not in terms of getting back together (god, no) but he may have thought twice about Ms USA moving here and got a good hard knock on what life would really be like and hence go off and be by himself....My lax boundaries were fuelled by a myriad of things - feeling I had to rely on ex for childcare support (until wonderful friends put me straight on that and offered their services and support), feeling I had to cave in as ex had a job and was paying into the house (I had no job and was living off my dwindling redundancy payment) etc etc. Oh and just plain reeling from the grief and shock as Springy mentioned and feeling like a fool for not moving on quick enough to match ex's pace as he indirectly chivved me along......

Certainly, my ex has come across like he has some sort of supreme rights when it comes to DS. He has the right to demand info from me as and when he chooses this (texting me at 11pm at night to ask how DS was when he went to bed? It sounds crass, but seriously, I do not want to go to bed with last text message on my phone from him) and can demand to see DS when he wants (or used to - not so much now) and yet on the other hand can choose not to see his DS for however many nights (14? 11? 16? Cant remember now) it was back in May/June because it would be cheaper to tack on extra holiday time to his work based trip to San Fran at the time....my ex can play the loving, concerned dad when he wants - I dont doubt he loves DS etc, but he cant pick and choose when to demonstrate this and expect to go 'oh, okay then'. So if he insists on calling in the am, he calls, regardless of whether he is on a packed train and doesnt want to do 'baby talk' and he makes sure he doesn't sleep in. This is all just coming to me now - again, its like another thunderbolt moment (long may they continue, as I seem to get a bit more clued up with each bolt - painful and regretful as they can sometimes be).

Springy - yes, am still reading the Freedom Programme and (unfortunately) seeing lots of ex - esp now - in some of the behaviours.

Romney - thanks - strong word were much needed! I can see very clearly now that I have been enabling my own misery in this sorry situation. Time to break free! So glad to hear that you are in a good place now - I aspire to do the same and reach a similar point to you, Springy and all the other fantastic ladies who have 'lived' to tell the us 'newbies' that we will also get through this....eventually.

enuff - thanks. This did strike a chord in me. I would have always said I was very strong, very positive...but that has eroded away a bit in the last 6 months (maybe even longer if I look back on relationship I had with ex in run-up to NYE and the treatment I accepted). I really dont want my DS to have an impaired view of relationships and how you 'fix' them or of women.....Ex's dad has a slightly 'old fashioned' view and despite ex claiming he was so proud of me as I got promoted or achieved a, b or c, I dont think he would have liked a scenario where I was the main breadwinner and he carried out my role (i.e. hanging around this town so I could advance my career whilst he just bumbled along from one aimless - but financially rewarding - promotion to another)......but, all guess work. It is interesting that he is now with someone who had similar circumstances to me when we first met, expect this woman has moved all the way over here just for him. I moved here for a grad job and then met him. She is commuting into London from our town for him (effectively) as he does not want to leave said town - now its because DS is here, but he has never wanted to leave this town. Hence, I stayed here to be with him...I didn't take a career sabbatical as he didn't want to go travelling etc. Lots of scarifices made for him by both me and new woman it seems (and no, I dont feel sorry for her).

dolly well done re. emails! I honestly know how you are feeling in terms of songs and seeing memories everywhere. It is hard, but you will get through it - honestly. I used to have a good old cry when I heard 'god only knows' by the beach boys....I used to have a mental playlist of certain songs and would google the lyrics and be half tempted to send them to ex. I haven't had a moment like that for a while (thought expect there will be the odd moment or two in the future) - but, I think this has occurred as my heart has hardened to him - and yours will too, eventually, to the point where what he says/does will just wash over you. Now, I am more prone to listen to Stevie Wonders 'I was made to love her' and when I hear the vocals and read the lyrics, I feel more like 'damn, yes! I do deserve someone who will love me as I truly deserve to be loved and it wont be ex - thank goodness!' But, definitely, working through this period is all part of the process and you are going great guns already. Also, accept the 'setbacks' (dont know what else to call them? Faltering steps?) - they will empower you no end and (amazingly - the advice on here has been spot on) the reeling will become shorter and the impact of your ex's words and actions will be less and less. But definitely, keep in mind, baby steps (you are doing great!) and all the wonderful places you and your DS will go....

mummytime yup, also something that the solicitor recommended (and do try and keep on top of). Thanks for the support.

saffysmum - huge thanks. Have been following your thread. Yes, can see as clear as a button now that I have been enabling these behaviours by not making a stand or fighting for a semblance of happiness for myself in terms of access/contact that works for me. Ex has succeeded in making me feel guilty about every single thing I do or say that goes against what he says/does. Utterly pathetic I know, but he is a huge character - and now seeing the alternative side to that character has been all encompassing. I have avoided going out for a run/walk round my estate for the last 5-6 weeks in case I bumped into her/him/them. I went out by myself for the first time on Sunday and I felt so liberated. And yes, went to Sainsburys on Monday evening . I have lived the last few weeks cowed in my home or only feeling safe outdoors in the company of strangers. Freedom is good. He completely and utterly destroyed my self esteem as he revealed (or should that be reviled) in his affair. I was too fat, he didn't fancy me, I didn't put him first, I didn't appreciate him when I had him, I was boring - watching too much TV, I didn't enjoy the TV progs he liked to watch, we didn't have enough sex, I didn't anticipate his needs.....etc etc. Most definitely time to take my life back....

Lordy - ex has replied to my email.....he agrees with what I have proposed, though he will reply properly later when he has time.....Feeling good, but also on my guard - cant help but wonder why he is being so 'nice'.....?

Ime I was especially on my guard when he was 'nice'

He took advantage of you when your whole world was ripped from you. You were in too much of a spin to make a cup of tea let alone negotiate the drastically different scenario your life had become. it was an almighty shock - even that doens't sum it up does it? He bamboozled you, undermined you, frightened you, controlled you, dominated you, belittled you, sneered at you, blamed you for the breakup (the FUCKER ).

That's why you went along with it - you were arse over tit, in a total state. Don't feel an idiot.

When he replies properly, don't do show the reply to friends (and /or your solicitor) to check it is reasonable, and to hunt for hidden traps. Well done!

Springy - I agree....I am particularly wary of him sending on a proper/full response later on (the over-active imagination side of me thinks - oh, right, that will be after he has had time to consult with new girlfriend/Dad/his mates and then come back and say 'actually, on reflection, I do think I should call every day and get texts about DS' or something along those line...).

I hear what you are saying regarding the impact of what has happened, but I still feel like an idiot...When I thought I was doing NC, I was only really doing it to his tune - so blocking out any stuff about us, but paying service to demands on DS. Will try to stop shaking my head in utter weariness of myself....Does make me determined to stick to this though...In the past he has laughed in my face when I asked him did he realise what he was/had thrown away (back in very early days not sure he had even moved out) to which he replied along the lines of 'I haven't lost anything'....the idiot was right in that he had a cosy family home life to wander into (I only stopped him coming in the house around April, so he had 2+ months of really having lost nothing) and his exciting transatlantic romance to keep him warm at night. Very, very frustrating.......I just hope that I have not let this go on for too long where it will now be a battlefield to instill any change or semblance of order/fairness....

Mummytime - good advice!

Day 1 of proper NC: Ex comes by to pick DS up for nursery run in the am. Ex replies fully to my email in the afternoon. He is now saying that yes, perhaps having calls twice a day is not such a good thing, though DS does speak sometime (as I said, not very often though). He agrees about texts and says that he didn't realise he was texting so late (wtf?! 11pm is obviously not that late if you dont have kids to get up for at 5.30am....). Ex calls at 7.05pm! I ignore but keep an eye on my mobile in case he rings that (so I can ignore that too). Now 8.25pm and he has just sent a text asking how DS is and if he had a good day at nursery!!!

I know I shouldn't even have to ask, but I should ignore this, right? For some stupid reason, I feel like 'oh well, he hasn't spoken to him, so.......'. But there goes the way of madness and more torture I think......I am also feeling nervous now, as convinced myself he will send me a text or email later saying how I am witholding info from him or his rights. Deep, deep breaths....

Am a lurker on this thread mostly as I can't really give good advice, but having read the posts from some of the very wise women on here I would say...

Grit your teeth and don't answer! To be honest, I am amazed at how tolerant you have been of this awful level of intrusion in your life - that's not a criticism of you. I think he has somehow convinced you that you owe him all of these detailed explanations of your DSs life, when in fact he was the one who chose to leave, so it's kind of tough luck on him if he is not there day to day. By spending so much time answering his texts, calls and emails, how do you forget about him and simply live your own life?

I hope you can soon get the peace you deserve to concentrate on yourself for a while.

Best wishes to you.

He is doing it again. 'Yes yes Dee you are right I will behave' with a pat on the head for you. Then completely ignoring you and doing what he still wants by sending more texts and calls.

Keep ignoring. You are doing the right thing.

Don't waste your time asking again. Deep down you know he doesn't give a crap about you or your thoughts/feelings. You are just a convenience for baby sitting.

You are not with holding information from him. You have no information to give him. Nothing has changed since last time he called/text/saw your son. I am sure if there was a problem/emergency or something really important you would be straight in contact. Remember he doesn't have and rights. Your son does.

Just keep doing what you know is right and you can hold your head high and look him and anyone else in the eye.

he did that with the pictures didn't he? asked him not to, he said yes yes (pat pat) and then carried on sending them regardless.

Get another mobile/number? Then you can switch 'his' mobile off, turning it on when DS is with him for access. When his texts come flooding through when you switch it on, delete them without looking at them.

Hi Darling

I have no doubt that you will be able to stay firm with this. My ex now doesn't call but when he used to (after I told him we would call him) I used to turn my phone onto silent during meals/bathtime etc so I could only hear it humming rather than ringing (I also for my own amusement changed his incoming call ring tone to a dog barking ; ) - perhaps you could turn your home phone ringer volume down too to help a little. As long as you have DS you know it can't be any emergency from him that can't wait to avoid interupting your night. I hope that today he sticks to what he agreed to.

Well my zen like calm and disengagement came to a (I hope temporary end) today when I went to book the flights for us home and tore the house apart looking for my son's two passports and yes, you've guessed it - we are now sufficiently Jeremy Kyle show for my ex to have - I think several months ago when I said he could go to the study to pick up his ID papers - TAKEN his passports. I texted him and he said yes he had them. Stupidly I called him and ended up totally losing it, screaming etc after he said that 'all I had to do was ask and he would return them' and that I was unreasonable for being angry. WTF. This was after I returned home from my visit to the UK and he had no reason to belive I would just nack off back and if he did then he should have raised it with solicitors or a third party and asked for them to be kept by a 'neutral' person. I am so incredibly mad, not least at him taking them but for also saying he had every right to as he is his parent too. Not so you'd notice really. FUCK. Annoyed I lost it, annoyed he was so fucking patronising - when I said that if he did not return them I would call the police he actually said 'fine, call them now, rock and roll' like a TWELVE year old. So. drinking a glass of wine at 3pm (son with him this weekend) and putting back together my strategy for detachment. Christ. WHEN DOES IT END? Anyway he is returning them on Sunday at which point I hope the flights home have tripled in price. I am in my rights to be angry aren't i? God he makes me question myself for which I am MORE annoyed.......

lots of love - no longer zen Dolly

Hi Dolly

Really think you should call the police. Your ex has STOLEN your passport. He may be able to have a vague argument that he should know where DS's passport is. But not yours. What he has done is criminal. He could literally be doing anything in your name.

This 'man' is disgusting.

I am so outraged on your behalf I'm having palpitations. Please call the police.

Sending you hugs. X

I don't think he took Dolly's passport enuff, I think he took DS's two passports?

And you think the law is too heavy for him Dolly? Alrighty then

All I can say is yippee that he has crossed a very serious boundary in law. The law takes a very dim view indeed of behaviour like this. he stole DS's passports, there is no other way to look at it. If you get the big daddy of the law to rap him across the knuckles so it HURTS, you won't have to scream your head off as the issue will be being dealt with effectively, with maximum clout. The screaming etc is powerlessness Dolly. You don't have to be powerless.

I like the barking dog. ex's name in my mobile address book was 'rodent' - it helped me to have clarity about what I was dealing with.

Dolly I would have been as angry as you, how dare he take your DS's passports who does he think he is, what a tosser. I dont know if the police will be interested although I personally think they should but over here I doubt that they would as they are too overworked, that is something I do think your solicitor would be very interested in. HOW DARE HE, I cant believe he did that, but as we know they are not the people we think they are.

I hope the detachment returns soon Dolly, it really is only time that will get you over this awful time and although I hated it when people used to tell me that, but it really is true.

Remember Dolly, I was a screamer too - once a full scream in the STREET ffs . i felt like a small but politically significant country being bombed by a superpower to get me out of the way, to obliterate me. It wasn't until I got the big boys in, the UN if you like , that I stopped screaming - because he was being dealt with, I was being protected.

You're not a Beirut hostage Dolly. He has managed to imprison you in his country but he can't take away all your human rights. Bring it on, get the bastard.

Sorry about the international relations analogies . And I had resolved to not post so much on this thread

Springy dont stop posting, you have so much help to give these lovely ladies and have already given. Please dont disappear.

thanks ladies for your affirmation. I know deep down that I have every right to be angry but again he is so fucking manipulative I end up questioning myself. Anyway in my rant ended up in the manner of bad TV play saying 'if you want to play, lets play, I am going to be your fucking worst nightmare' and I think I will be or a while. No more wet Dolly. Dolly with balls of steel here we go (Springy - not sure why you would not want to post? - hope you are well xxx) - Dee sorry for the hijack again but fucking stupid fucking ex's - they are unbelievable n'est ce pas?

So, Day 4 of proper NC......have had such a lovely few days! No annoying texts or emails or pestering. I did as advised (and yep, as everyone says, what I knew was the right answer) and did not reply to his text. The next morning, he did try his luck with sending me a text to say that he would be phoning that morning and evening as he wont see DS until Sunday. Very calmly sent him a text back, referring to our email which he agreed to and added that I would of course ask DS is he wanted to speak to Daddy (also mentioned in the email), but he was to call just once. He opted for PM and DS was, surprisingly, quite chatty (maybe the pressure is off to be on the phone babbling away twice a day, every day). Next day (Sat) was free of texts and he called in the PM only. This time, DS not so co-operative (long day, work family fun morning, then two birthday parties back to back), so surprise, surprise I get the blame via text as after DS hung up the second time (he actually picked up the second time, said hello, said bye then put the phone down - think there's a clue there?), I refused to even bother picking up the phone after he tried to call back twice. Ditto, ignored his idiotic text (he was basically saying that I was being obstructive by not not being a good girl/doormat and picking up the phone on his demand). He just doesn't have a clue......

So, am loving this state of affairs - know it could be improved, but I am starting to see this whole situation as an outsider looking in now. And more importantly, am getting some much needed distance and space (again, know it could be a lot more and wished I had done this from the outset) from him.

Real test of this NC will come this week - on those days when he sees DS, I do not expect a phone call, so no phone calls from now until next Friday - yippee!!!

Dolly - I have a special ring tone for him, have done since early days when his demands for contact and info was coming from all directions and was incessant. Now, I only answer his ring when DS is with him.
I agree with everyone in terms of the outrage of your ex taking your DS' passports (and where/if possible, getting the law involved). It is super scary when the ex turns like this and then has access to items like your DS passport. Have you secured other vital docs (birth certificate - he could get another passport couldn't he if he had that?)? Definitely worth doing. Hope the detachement returns - and yes, get angry (but dont bother showing him.....he will drive you crazy as he declares that you need to get over this now, that you need to re-direct your anger elsewhere, that he doesn't give a rats arse about what you feel/say or how he has changed etc - been there, done that, wish I had not wasted my breath or the text message allowance that was spent at the time). Be strong.

Springy - please do not stop posting!!

Notquite - thanks for the kind words and insight. Yes, have been living a toxic life for a while, so am aiming for less toxic from now on - and that means removing this man from my life whilst he is a presence in DS' life.....

Dee, glad to see you have had some good days. Long may they continue :)

Day 5 - and I am fuming.....DS has just woken up and I have just noticed that his hair has been cut - without ex asking or telling me. I did not notice last night as DS has mixed race hair and when his hair is washed (which I knew ex may be doing as they went swimming yesterday) his hair goes into tight curls.....tight curls have remained this morning and thats when I noticed the trim....is he allowed to do this? He did not say a thing yesterday (via handover and of course no text). I am flabbergasted that he has done this.....