Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Tampons ...... Not pregnancy tests thank goodness!

Sorry Dee, that was really cras.

I really don't understand why he is so lacking in empathy to live round the corner from you...and why can't she buy her own tampons...he has to rush out to get them like Sir Galahad or something.

Hi Xales - ah, yes, I agree.....which is why I switched tactics and went back to silent/neutral pretty damn quickly. I should have been clear though - I didn't go ape at him - just inside myself iyswim? I repeated the 'why are you in Tescos as per agreement' text on the phone when he called and thats when I got the 'she is on her period' thing. Said 'I didn't care and that he should shop elsewhere as all a bit too incestuous' or words to that effect. He was in the car and then I heard the car door going which is when I hung up! But, yes, you are right, detachment and aloofness from the start would have been the ideal, esp as this is what I have been striving towards for weeks now....I was just so mad that they have no sense of shame.....angry text was in response to his one telling me off for being so aggressive and how I was 'harming DS' (even though DS was in the other room - he hadn't wanted to speak to ex as usual). My actual reply was 'I am not doing DS any harm. What about what you two have done? I will text you what his day has been like later on. If he asks for you, I will call.' My anger really was in calling them out here - as said, have been working on not letting on any emotion when he comes round here, tries to talk to me or tell me something about her/them (he has also taken to texting me last thing at night to ask me how DS has gone down to sleep - am ignoring them. Ditto the photos that he has started re-sending slowly and surely in the last few weeks). My next text was then just outline of DS' day (he now insists on knowing what he has been up to each and every day when he doesn't have him). Very factual, down to x number of poos etc. And that was it. He has replied saying thanks and asking what time he should phone tomorrow morning. Have ignored him - he knows full well what time to phone in the morning as its been the same for the last 5 months, if he misses it then tough I reckon....

I guess it was the shock of seeing them for the first time together (and her) that threw me (so maybe more of an effect than I thought?!).

Yup, 'twas a very silly arrangement in the first place - certainly knocked some more sense into my head (and to be honest, I was kind of expecting that I would actually bump into them there one day anyway). Detachment face back on....

planet - pregnancy test would have been okay! If she is preggers reckon she would hot foot it back to the US and drag him with her (yippee!!). Just kidding - I would not be surprised at all if that is the next big announcement

planet - no worries! I have no idea...they were together in the car and he called from his car (bluetooth - which is why I hung up). Who knows if they were buying tampons or towels or whatever - as Xales and others will quite rightly tell me, they are not even worth the brain space pondering over.....

BTW, I was being a bit sarky/flippant about the whole Tesco's thing....writing it out, I did of course think once or twice to myself....am I really living a life where I have to negotiate which supermarket I can/cant shop in...there lies madness and all that. Needless to say, I wont be raising it again - they can - and obviously will - shop there, just as they can - and obviously will - drag out finding their perfect next home...

At least the first sighting is over and done with I guess?!

I see what you mean. I thought I was going to have to come and spank you for being silly for a while then!!

Keep bringing it on here (-:

Trouble is we expect people to behave how we would behave and to have the same standards as us. This is why he will constantly upset and make you angry. You expect him to put DS first just like you do and to stick to agreements just like you would.

You still need to stop expecting a shred of decency in this man. If there was any of that it ran away from him in fear a long time ago!

His standards just are not as high (or honest) as your own.

Hi Dee

Gosh I can imagine that it was a horrid shock to see her albeit obliquely for the first time, so sympathies. And I echo what the others have said about him not honouring his agreement re the supermarket as he simply isn't thinking about you and what is best for you at this point.

However - and whilst it is 'good' that you have enough of a relationship to tell each other about your DS day etc (which is a good thing - god knows I have no idea what my DS does when he is with ex and am not told anything not even how old his potential step brother is) - it does seem like your ex doesn't have any proper 'boundaries'. On the one hand he has given you ridiculous clauses like you are not allowed to look at her (I think this has been said before but really this is not in his perogative to demand - you are a grown woman and if he choses to live 5 minutes away and frequent the same places it is frankly a ludicrous and quite weird request which shows she isn't 'normal' in her wishes - and something that you of course don't have to adhere to - you can look at who you chose to for god's sake) on the other he feels it appropriate to tell you that he had to run out for tampons! He can't have it both ways and sounds a little delusional and caught up in the drama of it all whilst expecting you to just run with it. As someone who is catastrophically unable to take her own advise - distance distance distance. Perhaps say, I appreciate that you can make your own choices but it would help me and our future relationship on behalf of our DS if you could plan to shop in a different store in order to make things easier all around but that is your decision.

I DO so sympathise. I am of course running through the scenarios when I have to meet OW for the first time. In my fantasy I would like to say in a cheery neutral voice 'Gosh you are everything I expected you to be' which could be interpreted in a number of ways but of course I will likely just nod and mumble.

Beautiful day here so off to meet friends at a beach in the City - SUCH a family place - and meeting another family which makes me want to weep with the 'we could have had it all' feeling of such a lovely place to bring up children together vs such a lonely place to do it on my own but that is the reality (at least for now). Also trying not to - and failing - spend too much time imagining their euphoria of being out in the open - hoping they are not in Sydney meeting friends and family and are in her home City. Hope they fucking well stay there, not least as there is no surf there which is my ex's passion so not counting on that but have no idea of her circumstances with her ex in terms of permitting a move (it is only 4 hours drive but a different state). I am annoyed that he can live there whilst maintaining an address here for legal purposes given I am not allowed to move but net net I think much better if their life is there and not in my backyard (or Tesco's ; ).

Sad wave from broken Dolly - they are such fucking cunts from angry gesticulating Dolly - as you can see my emotions are not very stable at present ; ) xxxxx

ps never said the word cunt / written it until this year and am now strangely addicted to it - need to eliminate from my lexicon before it slips out at Kindy ; )

also playing/singing two songs to try and help me along - in the 'if I sing it it will come vein'......

Xales. My turn for a slap. I just sent my ex the following email

"As an aside if you honestly think phoning the father of someone to whom in the week that you all but admitted adultery and who has seen the emotional devastation that you actions have wrought on all levels of my life - not least refusing to do the decent thing and allow me to return home - to ask for his help in making me be 'less selfish' has done anything than make you look delusional then you probably need to continue with the therapy for some time."

That was quite stupid wasn't it. I hope that is my last fail at distancing.....send me distancing vibes please. I am sure AK (adulterous - which is how I have taken to calling her in my mind) will be having a good read and comforting him for having such a horrible ex. SIGH. What is the MATTER with me?

Down you have the same problem as Dee.

A liar and cheat expects everyone else to lie and cheat to them because that is their standards.

Your standards are much higher so you still expect your ex to behave with dignity, honesty and fairness. That he is still the man you thought he was. That is never going to happen though.

Once you actually realise this and expect them to behave like shits, even though it is still nasty and hurts, because it is expected it is not so painful and surprising. You can see it coming, anticipate it and eventually you will laugh at their patheticness.

Hi Dolly - please dont beat yourself up about the email. I did the same - multiple times. In fact so many times that I am now embarrassed about the texts/emails. On in as much as stupid ex still has these (am sure he has saved them) and who knows who he is showing them too (some of the content from the early days was v v cringeworthy - back when he had convinced me that I was as much to blame as him, my emails looked for a sign of hope, pleading with him and apologising for taking my eye off the ball wrt 'us'). Ditto 'angry' comms...though, am a good one to talk after yesterday's fiasco! I can honestly say that as the detachment starts to set in and you become less and less entagled with him, so the emails will change wrt tone and content. When I made a decision to stop sending him anything that had any emotional undercurrent in it, I made an effort to get my sister or a close friend to read over any emails that I sent him - and from that point, it started to become more and more neutral. Though tbh, your ex has been pushing your buttons by contacting your dad and pleading his case. I can imagine how angry you must be feeling! I agree with Xales too. I see my ex now mainly as a sad, horrible man who will lie at will and twist things to get his own way and who only thinks about himself first and his girlfriend second. There are times when he can chip away and I think that 'oh, ex would never stoop so low to do x,y or z' (e.g. supermarket - they were in the car anyway, they could have driven another 10mins and been in the other shop; maintenance for DS, esp as ex was always so generous to everyone when we were together etc etc). But as he shows his true colours, the realisation sets in further about the 'real' him, the reeling from the tackiness of it becomes shorter and it becomes another mark against him in the 'cant trust him on x,y,z' list (and its a pretty long list). But this realisation is only coming to fruition now - and really hit home with Xales comment yesterday about the broken promises he had just thrown back in my face (figuratively speaking like).

The detachment thing is great though - think it winds them up a bit. After his nonsense, time-wasting text about what time to call this morning (didnt reply), he has sent another text at 12pm, asking me how DS day has been and what time is the party DS went to? He seems to be intent on worming his way into our lives and it's bloody annoying, but all I can do for now is to ignore him.

Regarding the daily info on DS - there is no relationship about that. I think its a tit for tat thing, or most likely, he just wants to hear that DS is 'fine' so he can carry on on his merry way without any guilt on his shoulders (remember when I dared to send him a text saying that DS was crying for him whilst he was in France/wherever a couple of weeks ago?). I do it begrudingly and only do it when its a nursery day and so its just a run down of what nursery have told me. I do not text him any info on what we have been up to at the weekend or if I have had a days leave with DS - none of his business as I see it, unless I need to swap a day such as today as DS has a birthday party to attend, so told him that last week - same next weekend. Equally, I do not want to really know what he is up to with DS when he has him - as long as he is looking after DS and not exposing him to danger or leaving him with strangers (her included) then I dont really need to know that they went to the zoo or went to a party or whatever. Ex does still tell me details and as mentioned last week, sent me a photo of DS at a bday party (not asked for, and I have told him to stop on previous occasions and did not reply to the email). I did not ask him any details about the party, bar to just keep an eye on certain foods given to DS as last time he was at the house of these friends, DS and ex came away with food poisoning. It seems he wants to dip into good old family life here (he also suggested that we all three go to the cinema a couple of weeks ago to go and see the new Cars film???????!!) and then slink of for his single/cosy coupledom with her.

Dolly - know what you mean about seeing lovely and loved-up families together. I have just been to a toddlers party (DS now napping) and the dad of the little boy whose birthday it was came into the living room to give something to his wife (boy's mum) and he rubbed her back and gave her a loving kiss on the top of her head before he left the room. Wasn't a display as only one mum and me in the room at the time and the other mum was busy and didn't seem to notice. Probably very, very ordinary in some families, but it made me think about what I didn't have (in the beginning yes, towards the end, not so much so) and how I would like to have that in the future. We will get there!

Have a lovely day - Sydney is gorgeous!

Xales - my expectations are now re-set (to zilch)!!

Dx

Dolly - yes, the lyrics to the song are ace!

Dee, he is insisting on having his cake and eating it. I am at his right in your face comms about ds. he chose to leave the family home and, technically, he has forfeited the spoils of that family home. you can't be expected to fill him in as though he is virtually there. He is not, he left. You're not feeling sorry for him are you? Kind of 'he has no idea what he's done' sort of thing? Like he's someone with SN. Whether he really knows or doesn't, he can't have it all ways. I'm reminding you about the book ex and i filled out to hand over at changeover re written details of the kids' week/weekend. this was in the days before emails and mobile phones. You could set up a spreadsheet if you really must but imo the constant comms about ds have to stop. You are in constant contact with him, he lives right under your nose. It is bizarre.

love to all xx

Thanks Springy - good questions.....do I feel sorry for him? I dont think so (hope not). I did have an element of this in the beginning as in 'lord, what is he doing?' 'he is losing the plot' etc etc...but then I realised that he is still able to function very well in his high paying job and socialising and organising fights and breaks and all sorts, so that notion got dropped. It was a painful realisation as it of course meant me facing up to the fact that he really is that cold, cruel etc.

Seeing it laid out, I can see clearly now that it is all too much (and probably why I can breathe a bit more when he does go away - oh, another weekend break planned for Sept - at least he had the good manners to give me some advance warning this time). On the days he doesn't see DS, he calls every 12 hours, on the days he does see him, I have to see him or he calls again, every 12 hours and then there are the texts on top of all that....how do I get it to stop? I ignore the texts and they still keep coming, I tell him that DS isn't that fussed about speaking on the phone all the time and still he calls....I just cant get rid of him on this count it seems....

Yes, remember about the book - may be a good idea as could be cleaner than a spreadsheet in terms of not having to log onto fill in and send onto him....

Thanks for the advice - much appreciated and why I love MN!

Dolly - how are things?

Because of precisely this - endless calls and even letters - that I had to take out a restraining order against my ex. It didn't go down well, as you can imagine, but it gave me some peace to get my head together as with his constant bombardment I was constantly in a spin. He also couln't come past the 'gatepost' of my house.

I think you have to consider this Dee. I don't think his calls etc are because he is concerned about ds, I think they are a means of controlling you and keeping you off-kilter constantly. If you're still reading the Freedom Programme blurb it may mention this, that controllers tend to keep their target off-balance in a myriad ways.

imo he has to get the message CLEAR AND PLAIN that you are not his property, neither is ds, neither is your home. I don't care who is on the deeds of your home, he can't harass you in your own home.

I am also absolutely fuming that he is still peddling this ridiculous line that you can't talk to/look at etc his BOS. ffs, who does he think he is??? It 's a free country and he can fuck off.

Hi Dee

Firstly poor you Springy, sounds like you were in a very nasty situation with your ex and it all got very horrible indeed - sympathies to you.

Fortunately Dee, it doesn't sound like you are in that situation at all just that your ex is still in his 'transition' from family life to OW life and hasn't yet worked out what is going to work best for anyone aside from him. Again, think it has been noted but he seems to want all the benefits of family life (knowing what has gone on) whilst living apart with Ms USA. Again, I've said it but it is a balancing act as to what is best for your DS, for you and for your Ex. It is nice to know what DS has been up to but its unsustainable to keep this level of commentary up. Could you just tell him that the texts aren't working for you, is too intrusive and takes you away from DS. When he picks him up surely it is acceptable to say 'DS had a nice day, had a playdate with Ex and did some drawing, we are off to see X at the weekend, bye' and he could equally say when he drops him back 'had a great time feeding ducks, he was a bit tired on the way home' etc - job done! I only have to see my ex every fornight when he drops him back from the w/end (as he picks him up and drops him at Kindy on the overy other weekday and whilst it is good I don't have to see him I personally find it sucks that I have no idea what DS does when he is with his Dad and pick up fragments from mutual friends and family...not that I want a running commentary just that we had a nice lunch with aunty Z or similar.

I'm still reeling a bit but had a horrid phone call this morning which, along with the fact the legally obliged health insurance still not paid, has heartened my heart a little. I sent ex email saying in the next few weeks would like a face to face meeting to talk about relocation, the house, miss adulterer meeting DS, and DS as we both seem to have lost sight of the fact that we are real people by the adversarial emails etc. I also said that DS had told the most heartbreaking story to a stranger in the park about his Daddy and it made me realise the effect all this is having on him and manage as best we are able (all true). So ex calls up immediately and opens the phone conversation with 'what is DS doing talking to strangers' I give up. Put phone down and - sorry ladies re my WOEFUL distancing and not stooping - when he called again said sarcastically 'DS was talking to strangers as Mummy was in a drunken stuper with her vodka bottle and endangering her son by her woeful parenting, what do you think' - or something to that effect - and put phone down and refused to answer any calls since. He has since left a VM and email saying that he is trying to have a conversation with me and by not calling him back I am blah blah blah....I'm not calling him as I can't speak to him today as the conversation will not end well. I am SO tempted to email her and ask her to exercise judgement in requesting a meeting with my son given their recent split (a split during which he made overtures to get back at me which was corroborated by a family member and friend so not the delusions of a vindictive and unstable ex - hah! that would put the cat amongst the pigeons!) - in fact have drafted it to make me feel better - but I know this would play into her hand of his 'difficult' wife and make me look like a Jeremy Kyle wife.....it plays out well in my head though. I won't send it otherwise I will have to excommunicate myself from the thread for shameful behaviour but god knows it would feel good for a nanosecond.....

PS Dee. One thing I definately agree with Springy on is the not looking at the OW 'rule'. Insanity. If you were as arsey as me I would say 'Why, does she think I will capture her soul with my powerful gaze'....but then you are much more gracious and dealing with things much better ; )

I hope you are keeping a record of such phone calls etc. It could be useful later. (If not print out your post here and keep it as the start of such a diary.) A diary written at the time can be useful evidence if you ever need it.

Strongly agree with mummytime about a diary and about it possibly being useful later.

Haven't read all your post dolly but my situation was no different to Dee's!

Had to rush off there, sorry for short post. Read your post Dolly and omg my situation was no different to yours either, not really! Except I wasn't held prisoner in his country. Your ex is harassing you Dolly, your ex is harassing you Dee. Maybe Im longer in the tooth but ime you are forced to exercise zero tolerance to get the message across that they can't control your every move. I dont care if Dee's ex is finding it hard to adjust (ffs!!) he should have thought of that when he followed his dick. You are the ones who have been cheated on, remember, you are the ones struggling to adjust. YOu are also the ones who have primary care for your LOs and must be as stable as possible. The injunction I was forced to take out on ex was to protect me and my family, it wasn't a vindictive move.

I am currently in limbo re access ,waiting for X to reply to sols letter.I agree this situation was not put in place because of me being vindictive .Instead i consider myself being assertive and indeed proactive.I was still being bullied by my X .I can not tolerate being called Scum,Sht,C*t,B*ard,W*er,Bi polar all prefixed with F*k.He has absolutely no right to talk to me like this its been 2yrs since he left me.I am nearly divorced and he has been with his new partner for over a year .He hasnt moved on ..........I HAVE xxxxx

Hi Dee & Dolly

Have been thinking about you both all day so had to post.

Just to say, FWIW, I agree with Springy. You're both being so decent and your exes aren't. Maybe you could think about dealing with them through solicitors? I know it's not what you want ideally but it may help with the detachment?

I don't know much about all of this but it strikes me that long-term your sons are going to need mothers who aren't being bullied and controlled by nasty, weak men.

Sorry, if that's a little harsh-sounding. I just want you both to be OK.

Hugs to you both.

X

PS Dolly, I know it's not it's not part of the detachment protocol but have you asked your ex - via email so there's a written record - how he can pretend to care about his son when he is breaking the law by not paying for his healthcare?

That really is it. Back to lurking I go.

Dee I was thinking back to when my 1st H left when the DC were young there is no way I would have texted ex everyday with what DC had been up to, it was his decision to put himself and his selfish needs first, he chose to leave the family and that includes knowing the daily happenings of the children. Im afraid he gave that right up.

Dee you really should stop playing to his tune, he cant have it all.

Thinking of you Dolly you will get stronger, again its just a gradual process that takes our heart and brain a while to get in sink. It is a year today that my ex love of my life/soulmate (now a deluded, cheating, lying bastard!) told me to get on with my life, as he was going to persue his relationship with his 27year old OW, still find it hard to believe that he thinks it will work with 27years age gap, but hay ho hopefully in the near future I wont care anymore and will just pity him for being such a deluded fool. It takes time to realise what these guys really are, we still think of them as the ones we thought we could trust and love always.

Be strong you lovely ladies. By the way I am nearly there at the end of the long winding road to happiness again, maybe one day that will include a man but at the moment its me my dogs and occasionally when I see them my wonderful children.

Hello All - Dee lovey hope you are travelling well.

Springy and Patience - didn't mean to imply at all that you guys were being vindictive in your actions - just that my reading of Dee's situation is that her ex has to accept realistic boundaries rather than more drastic action. Just my take - of course not necessarily the right take but that is what is great about these threads, everyone can share and have different perspectives and hopefully we can find the right path eventually - love to you both.

Well. Don't know if its a passing phase but I think I may have found my detachment/backbone in the last few days. Ex now paid health insurance (hallelujah although it shouldn't not have been paid in the first instance) and I am think (applause from those who could have told me this a year ago and have been wanting to punch me) I am beginning to accept that we are done and dusted and I have to find a way to build a new life here. There is no magic wand. It is down to me. So. last two nights - no glasses of wine - been to see tax accountant - managed to get out of bed on time rather than lying there raking things through and when ex emailed stupid email asking me to 'define my expectations of godparents' having emailed him the choices I would like to make (UK friends - he doesn't have any over there and they used to be his so he knows them and two Australians who are mutual friends of BOTH of ours now, his old school friend and first best man and his oldest friends wife - both of whom are still friendly with me but with whom he is friends and sees and will see with OW), I emailed back that I believed he had a good understanding of the modern day role but there were a number of websites he could look at if he was unsure. He then emailed back to say 'but I want to be clear on your expectations etc etc' and I simply relplied that I wasn't going to engage in a semantic and protracted email discussion - it was his perogative to question my choices and give me his reasons and suggest alternatives if he deemed necessary but I wasn't going to waste my emotional energy on a legnthy email exchange. Result (for emotional hair trigger emailer that I have been of late). I also accept that whilst I made mistakes in the way that I handled things in our marriage that I wish I had done differently, he had for much of it withdrawn in some way - emotional and or physical - since our son was seven months old and so it is unfair of him to have said that we didn't pull together through the loss of our babies when he has already begun to pull away. I have accepted within myself that I have some culpability in the selfishness of some of my unhappiness and my inability to seek help to deal with it but I also accept that he was very culpable for withdrawing from us in some way and creating my underlying fear that he was involved with OW which caused the remaining issues in a marriage that I thought was otherwise happy. I am a long way from being at peace with it but I now know that the culpability is not mine alone and quite far from that. I also accept finally that he no longer has my back and by extension my son's back. He can't given the situation he has left us in. I need to be responsible for that and get expert advise in all of our remaining financial transactions (house) as he will not be acting in our interests. I have also realised that nothing is going to save me. I can let this define me and be my tragedy or I can find a path through it and become some kind of fabulous again. I can't see the path to this clearly yet but I can see the destination and to be a cliche a long journey starts with a tentative step. Sorry for long post. I am writing it down to refer back to when I falter. I still cry at songs about lost love and hope on the radio, cry when I pass places and shops and beaches of lost memories, crying a little now to be honest, but I'm determined to make new happy memories and songs and places. I still feel fragile. I still feel like the slightest movement will fracture the possibility of me being whole again but I'm going to try my damndest. Sorry for going on but you have all helped me so much I just wanted to let you know that there is a faint Dolly smile again.

Lots of love

I don't often post on your thread Dee, but try to keep up with it when I can.

What leaps out at me, is that this man has a huge sense of self-entitlement. Who the hell does he think he is?

He can live where he wants - regardless of your feelings. He has the audacity to tell you that you can't look at his OW - who he has deliberately moved in with him under your nose! Dear God, is he for real? How dare he tell you who you can and can't look at! He leaves his DS, but then demands a daily update on every thing that the lad has done - right down to how many poos he's had! Again - wtf?

He even feels that you need to know the need to shop in Tesco's - she might be on her period (poor love) but he's on a different planet!

And you might now like this Dee....and I'm sorry if I sound harsh...but you're enabling him to be this total egotistical self absorbed control freak.

I think that because he sees himself as this major player, this has rubbed off on those around him. You do seem to accept his ridiculous "conditions" - the constant phone calls, him wanting to know the ins and outs of a ducks arse, and you seem to have accepted his rule that you mustn't "look" at OW!
Why, will she spontaneously combust? (Here's wishing!).

Seriously, you have to take back control - he's toxic. He's your DCs dad, but that's all. You can go where you want, look at who you want and do what you want. You can ignore his calls, you can tell him to go fuck himself - the world won't end if you do, I promise.

Please stop enabling him to control you like this. It's unhealthy, you need to move on. I know what it's like when a big personality inside a man you loved calls the shots - he says "jump" you say "how high?" But please....detach from him, stop him having this control over your life. It's so unhealthy and you'll never move on whilst you allow him to do this. He lives near you. That's a shame - but proves that his own needs are all that matters to him. So accept.

So they usually shop in Sainsbury's? Well, if I were you, I'd start shopping in Sainsbury's too - I'd see them in there, give them a killer stare, say not a word, hold my head high, and walk right past them.

He doesn't "own" you. You're as free as a bird. So start spreading your wings hun.

"ex has to accept realistic boundaries rather than more drastic action"

He's/they're not going to accept realistic boundaries without more drastic action Dolly! I#m sorry to keep going on this but imo until you both get the gist that these men are not your friends but are your mortal enemies, the control and abuse will keep coarsing through like a raging river, destroying you in its path. I don't know what it is that comes over these men who do this but it is poisonous and extremely damaging, intended to harm. You have to do all you can to stop it, to protect yourself and yours (dc). Thank God for the law - it was the only thing that was more powerful than him, the only thing that could stop him - the law drew a line and stopped him.

A FLA solicitor will not take a case, or pursue an action, that doesn't have solid substance in law. FLA = Family Law Association, signed up to a code of practise that protects family life and finances at all costs, is not trigger happy or shrill but works toward the best interests of the family. They will not move on a vindictive action and are not vultures who enjoy the fight and gobble up the spoils - that's how it was in the past, not now. Perhaps you see the law Dolly as a vindictive, souless 3rd party which destroys the family, not to be trusted. On the contrary, they see family spats day in day out and know at 60 paces when someone is being harassing and controlling and will move to stop it (to protect the family). I am sure there are the equivalent of FLA lawyers in Australia? You are caught in a bind as, as someone said upthread, the Hague Convention is now being used to entrap and control ex's, when it was set up with honourable intentions. Please don't confuse the two my darling - imo you need the law, as does Dee, to stop these men controlling your every move and thought. They are behaving like monsters and believe they are all-powerful and have full immunity. They need to be brought down to earth with a bump and the law can do that effectively with minimum fuss.

it is a tall and unrealistic order to expect yourself/selves to achieve the 'backbone' to stop them, when you are anyway out of your minds with loss and grief and the agony of betrayal at present, and will be for a while. Even if you were not, if you were in tip-top condition, you need the law to enforce boundaries and behaviour, as your ex's will not listen to any moral law, having actively deadened their conscience to pull off their evil deed, deeply invested in not having it reawakened. You and Dee represent what they have done, represent their conscience, and they will destroy you. You need a higher authority to stop them, you need the law. Nothing personal here, you need to protect yourself and by implication your dc.

It would probably be better if I didn't write the above with as much passion and at such length , but it is the best I can manage, even after all this time. You sound like you are in a good place Dolly, sounds like the pheonix is beginning to rise! I think you finally have the means to recover as you now know the truth and the healing will follow its own course iyswim - hence your detachment about the godparent thing re you didn't get into a convoluted spat about it, you didn't engage. More of that to come no doubt. (I hope I don't sound know-all though - sincere apologies if so.)

I didn't realise you had lost babies Dolly - I'm so sorry . BIG hugs my darling.

Hi Springy

Thank you for your hugs - we had an ectopic pregnancy emergency room drama and then 'chose' to end a pregnancy well into the second trimester because of severe health issues - this was 8 weeks before ex left (a week into IVF - long story) ........again, he didn't have my back when I needed him most ;(