Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Dolly - sorry, I couldn't get back on during the day as had meetings.

I would definitely take up the offer of therapy/counselling if its on offer and your FIL is willing to pay for it. I got a lot out of my counselling. Not sure about using the same therapist that your ex is seeing though (know that there is confidentiality rules in place to protect both your privacy etc). In the spirit of getting some distance, could you see someone else? That way you will be unfettered in thinking/wondering how ex's therapy sessions go with the same therapist, what he is saying to the therapist, will this cloud how you then speak with the therapist (not saying you would do this, but could be a possibility?). Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable seeing the same therapist as ex, esp if PIL are praising it (say if you dont get on with the therapist - perfectly reasonable outcome in the therapist-client relationship) and need to find another one and yet this is the therapist that has worked miracles on your ex? You dont need that sort of stress and hassle.......

You will get through this anger stage - though as has been said, anger is good (in certain regards) and working through it can be very releasing. Just thinking to what you said the other day before this reveal. You were looking for ways to move on and not want to be with your ex again - or at least now (sorry, paraphrasing). This could be that sign, impetus that you needed maybe? Anger is good, but, as I have learnt the hard way, please try and limit this to your ex. Not to be nice to him, but just to avoid the aggro that it can bring. You will be the one wound up and hurt whilst he trundles off apparently without a care in the world (doubt this is the case 100% of the time, I think that they have really shitting their pants moments of scariness). In my case it got to the point where my ex would actually tell me to move on from my anger stage in my grief and that I should go and direct my anger elsewhere (and he has also indicated that I am clearly not over him, whilst he has moved onto divine happiness).....mind boggling and honestly, not worth even replying to. They are in some sort of haze where anything that is said that goes against the great soulmates/love-affiar of the century thing is just plain crazy and they dont want to hear it. I still get angry when I think of the shit that ex has landed on me, but it is less now (flares up whenever something big happens or is announced ime) and I now strive for indifference when i deal with him. I remember patience posted a list of ways to deal with anger (exercise, writing stuff down - with pen and paper as opposed to typing it out so you cant go back and self-edit - just dont send anything to him). Also, take a break from any emails/texts he sends you. Not saying ignore them, but maybe just dont respond to them straight away. I take my time replying unless it is something really super urgent about DS (and it hardly ever is). I found/find that in the anger stage, I would pounce on an email/text from ex and reply with something that obviously showed my anger - cue, lots of telling off and berating from him. So not worth it, so please avoid (plus, indifference will get on his nerves more anyway).

Totally empathise re your DS and your ex's choices. Had the same - all we can do is put it down to another selfish act that they insist on. BTW, are you making notes of all this as in 'ex has been away for x weeks this year and ony spent y weekends with DS' or 'ex has missed z weekends with DS that have been for social commitments'. May not need it, but good to have. I was able to quote to ex the other day that he has already been away for 30+ days this year, missing a good number of weekends with our DS and most for social stuff in SF (this whilst he was telling me he was such a good dad and how so many people - what people? - had commented on this).

And as always, I second the excellent, spot-on advice from the ever lovely springy.

Take care of yourself and your DS (eat, sleep well if possible). Will be back tomorrow.

dx

PS: I would try and put some distance between yourself and your in-laws if only for a little while (depending on how well you get on with them). It will be very hard to socialise with them (as much as this is not necessarily their direct fault, though sounds as if you also have that common, 'poor communicator' crap that is oh so often trotted out when the going gets tough) knowing that they are also hosting your ex and his OW now, if indeed they are. I think if you feel strong enough to be around them, then it may be wiser to keep all your comms about your DS or anything else bar their son/brother. The fact that they have known about this for 6 months and have not said anything, or at least implored your ex to tell you the truth is very unnerving and, if it were me, I would be super-wary of saying anything/revealing anything to them that you dont want to get back to your ex (as it most probably will - I got burnt this way with ex's sister. Now when she sends a 'how are you?' text, I just reply fine. I dont go into any details like I did in the early days). BTW, this is again, me probably being a bit paranoid after my own experiences.....

PPS: Ignore his mum. She should have been spending the last 6 months strongly encouraging her son to do the right thing by the mother of his child as soon as she found out herself.....

hello everyone
thanks so much for your insightful comments, kind words and care. I so appreciate it. I wish I could say that today was a better day and I am really annoyed with myself for being frozen in the way I am feeling. I feel like the world's most stupid person for not seeming to be able to process all of the lies and betrayal and come out stronger....I am just spinning around the 'I can't believe it' stage a YEAR LATER. honestly lovelies, not saying I am a rocket scientist but I have a degree, had management board level jobs, not too shabby at the crossword, I thought a reasonable level of EQ and here I am still loving someone that has been a total cunt on so many levels and spending my energies rehashing things in my mind and pacing around the house being a distracted parent feeling lonelier than ever and just can't seem to get it together. I want to punch myself let alone how friends must feel. WHY can't I draw a line under it?? What is wrong with me?

Ended up speaking to FIL today (he was nice and I was a bit rude to him in email so apologised) and - small point - but demonstrating how even NOW DH can't stop the lies that he had apparently misunderstood when he thought they had broken up and that DH has now told him that was inaccurate she just had to return to her City and so they cut the holiday short. Plausible if 7 other people who I spoke to hadn't said exactly the same thing 'oh i thought they had split up, that is what he told us'. So obviously introducing his son to OW with whom he just had bust up doesn't look like responsible parenting so AGAIN he has to LIE HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF and pretend everyone was mistaken, they are loves young stable dream after all. Within all the lies it makes not odds and I know I need to spend no energy thinking about but for the love of god can this man tell the truth?? and why do I still expect him too? I know he lies, I know he is manipulative but yet I am always surprised - christ maybe I am mentally unstable after all ; )

So. I wish I could reprogram my brain but I am just stuck thinking he now has EVERYTHING he wants - not much financial obligation, most of his time free, hot girlfriend, sibling for my DS (she has one when asked how old it is 'none of my business', whilst I am stuck in a country not my own with all that entails isolated and miserable. Oh and the housing market is terrible so will have to sell house at considerable loss which was my only (and original) asset in the whole thing. World's smallest violin is now put away but honestly it is SO unfair I want to rip my skin off.

I used to be a positive person and I will roll up my sleeves and get on with things but it seems a little beyond me at the moment. god when does it end?

Dolly i am so so sorry you are going through this, i could cry for (with!) you, i can totally understand where you are coming from. No matter it has been a year, you have a HEART! and he however, appears to be heartless ... i am sure others who have been through this personally can give you more functional advice, i can only say with genuine heartfelt sincerity that i hope this time period passes quickly. no matter how long this period lasts one thing we know is that it will pass, we just dont know the time scale. i can feel your anger in your post and rightly so!!! i would be exactly the same, it seems nice that your FIL reaches out to you. i suspect he is embarrassed that his son has acted in this way, shame the MIL cannot do the same. Funny you would think it would be the other way around? I dont think you are mentally unstable, you have been kicked in the stomach so so so many times and had your heart ripped out, that is why you are feeling this way. Your world has been taken from you, but listen my dear. one thing you should know; this man does not have everything he has lost everything. you have the dc, he does not, in time you will also have your own home again, it may seem a long way off but believe me you will get there. you will. it is just time. a long time of healing but it will happen. the man is not going to change grow up , so what exactly does he have? a stupid attitude, a current girlfriend who, if she has anything about her will soon see sense. do not believe for a second the man has everything, from what you have said he has very very little owing to own ineptitude, which sadly cannot be erased overnight! be gentle on yourself dolly, you are doing really well. even though you may not feel this way, dont expect too much from yourself in terms of where you should be emotionally etc etc, we are all human and as humans we all have frailties. if you can, walk, go walking. i know from my past it helped me immensely. that and meditation, meditation takes a long time to get into but once you do that stillness and calmness comes quicker and is more easy to attain. above all, please dont be too demanding of yourself. he has lost big time, he is the one who is in a mess, not you

" ....I am just spinning around the 'I can't believe it' stage a YEAR LATER."

Well, of course you are! He has ONLY JUST TOLD YOU. A YEAR LATER. You know those reality shows etc, how they pause for an interminable 10 seconds or so before telling the person they have lost/are out? (fucking hate that). That's what your seriously sick ex has done to you, held the bad news off for a YEAR. Of course you feel mad, spinning - he's done this to you

As for "I feel like the world's most stupid person for not seeming to be able to process all of the lies and betrayal and come out stronger" - you are not stupid, you are normal and human and it is not reasonable for you to click your fingers and recover from this awesome strike in a day, a week, a month. He dragged it out for a YEAR - the sick bastard. He's not human.

The longer you berate yourself and try to force yourself to 'recover' the longer you'll drag your recovery out, Dolly. There is nothing for it but a process of recovery which will take time - but at least now you have the truth and, although it has been delayed for an entire year, you can now start the process of recovering. It's going to take time though Dolly, there is nothing you can do about that. You must be kind, kind and kinder to yourself; lavish yourself with space (you too Dee!). Think serious car crash - your recovery is going to take time. Don't listen to the idiots who say (imo contemptible shit) things like, "draw a line", "move on", "put it behind you". You will go through anger and bitterness that could power the world's generators (bring it on!), self-pity that threatens to drown you in the gloop, sorrow and pain etc etc - all part of the recovery. Let it roll, it is part of the process. But i would seriously say you need to go through this with a professional. As Dee says, not his therapist (ffs! what kind of suggestion was that from FIL??). YOu need someone to hold your hand, to help you see the sick things people get up to (so you don't think it's you), someone to 'hold you' as you fall apart. Your average Joe can't cope with the excesses of grief on this scale, you need a professional who won't be phased by it and won't tell you the equivalent of pull your socks up.

Much love to you Dolly - and Dee and Romney (thx btw ) and all you dear women who are negotiating this incredibly painful time. Keep going.

Hi Dolly - quick check to see how you are doing. I can only - as always - second the spot on advice from everyone else. Please do not think for one moment that you are stupid - all the evidence points towards your ex being very, very stupid. Stupid to carry on lying all this time. As said, you are going through the shock of it all - its like its happening all over again, but this is new shock and grief and anger now as your ex has finally revealed what has been really going on.

And remember, you are a positive person. This has knocked you for six - as it would do anyone. You have been so brave and strong in the last year having gone through all of this. You will be even stronger - honest. I know I can hardly talk as have my own ups and downs, but, today, I can see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It will take time and that time varies for everyone. Most certainly be angry, sad, upset, cry, all of these emotions and responses are part of the healing I find. I second the walking - I used to wander around with no particular destination in mind, trainers on and see where my mood and thoughts would take me. And the same for meditation/affirmations etc. I found being open to all forms of coping mechanisms (screaming into a pillow, punching a pillow, screaming out loud - with DS out, reading, coming on here, talking to RL friends, exercise etc) was good for the soul as I tried to heal and get over the enormity of what had happened. But, dont rush and please dont be hard on yourself. This is not your fault and as has been said, your ex is the loser here. It may not seem like it now, but he is.

You are doing so well - take care. Huge, massive hugs to you ((((dolly))))

Romney - so good to hear from you.

Dx

PS: Dolly - ex sent me a text today to tell me he was in London this evening at a reunion event for some faddy executive training course he went on last year (involved trips to London, Wales and China - and yep, I stayed here looking after DS whilst he played executive bigshot on expenses). She is with him. Hence he could not make his 7.00pm call tonight (no text to ask after DS etc). For a split second, I started to text him back about how I hoped he would have a fab evening with his new girlfriend, enjoying the 'spoils' of what he said at the time was a big commitment to benefit the family.....but then I stopped. I remembered what you and others have said to me in the past regarding not bothering and to keep everything non-emotional. So I deleted the text and got on with my peaceful ex-free evening. Point of this is that I have only gotten to this place due to the fantastic insight offered by you and others. So, please dont ever feel that you are anything less than wonderful. You are an inspiration. Dx

Hello wise ladies one and all.

Thank you so much for your responses. I can't tell you what a lifeline it is. I feel much less like I am screaming in the dark waking up to hear such great advice and wise words and kindness. I think it is the kindness in my life that I miss the most.

Another horrible day. Lovely ex is refusing to allow me to travel to the UK on the dates I need to go for work as it is over DS birthday and he is legally entitled to spend 3 hours with him. So. For the sake of three hours when he somehow manages to 'battle' through the 80% of his life without him, who he managed to spend his first holiday away from with his mistress, who he chose not to see on the NY Eve weekend as he was with his mistress, he will not permit us to spend an extra week with my family and friends. I am not being deliberately difficult. I am doing a part time job at a stationary company which is very busy in December with weddings (its like August here) and it is hard to take the last two weeks off but my boss is understanding, so simply cannot travel any earlier. It is a co-incidence that DS was born in mid January not a calculation by me to be difficult. It really beggars belief that he could be so petty. Called him today - stupid stupid - as need to go to dentist for me and DS and AGAIN found out he is in arrears with health insurances (legally mandatory for DS, his choice to continue my cover but as he gets it free from work he is legally obliged to pay for me until house sells so legal obligation right now, after then until he needs the cover for someone else which judging by mistress introduction won't be too long). Anyway, managed to demean myself by moving to the how could you lie for so long piece (idiot that I am) and got the 'I am not willing to talk to you or hear your anger anymore' therapy speak that makes me want to fucking kill him. I need to build my walls I know, I am going to figure out how to do this.

Springy, spot on about your point that I need to go with it for a while. I wrote to my architect friend a while ago (before this latest shit) that I need to learn to let unhappiness wash over me. Instead I know I am railing against it which is making it worse. I need it to wash over me and wash away and instead I am pushing it back yet of course it keeps crashing over me again and again. I will try and figure out a way to do this.

Only 'bright' spot is that he is burning bridges with friends. I found out today (now people can talk to me as I know about OW) that the partner of one of his best friends is refusing to have much to do with him as she feels he has used them and lied to them. I also found out from a mutual friend that he asked to BORROW money from this same couple - which he said was for legal bills but then she was horrified when he went on holiday with OW the week after - and she had to ask for the money back which he paid but had to be reminded (yes can go on holiday with mistress but can't pay legally required health insurance for his son). Quite what he is doing with the equivalent of well over 150K UK pounds a year is beyond me. He is also driving around in our pretty new 4 wheel drive Volvo which he could easily sell if he was that hard up - I am selling baby furniture and prams to make ends meet and would be humiliated at asking friends for money unless I was absolutely on skid row (we are both in our early 40's) and certainly not the week before I swanned off on a tropical holiday with a partner. At the w/end she also refused to answer his calls as she assumed he was inviting himself for dinner so another friend of his found him waiting on their driveway uninvited asking to come in for dinner which didn't go down too well either (that wife called the other partner and thanks very much he is now on our doorstep I am over this). He has also borrowed money from his Father so hell the OW must be expensive.

To Dee and Springy's point, I am also making an appointment with my Dr on Friday to get sleeping tablets for a while and to get a subsidised therapy which I believe I can (half price for 12 sessions) in order to try and deal with this better. I think it is going to be time and distance and the rediscovery of my backbone which gets me through but it can't hurt and hopefully will help. The problem is that I feel like I could talk about this for the rest of my life but I will still have trouble believing that the man I married could lie and then have so little compassion and regard for me in the aftermath.

Probably too much information - but another source of rage - I have had abnormal pap tests for about 10-15 years with a procedure in January which turned out was uncessessary as the cells which seemed to be pre cancerous weren't...anyway, point being I have always had abnormal cells but have been HPV negative - until the last test which was a few months before DH left when I was HPV positive (it is a very common sexually transmitted virus - tons of people have it - no judgement on it, just that I didn't). My GP at the time said it was unusual but the Gyno said it can lie dormat for years so brushed away....anyway, now thinking very odd that I was negative for so many years and now am positive - another gift from the no doubt saintly OW ; (

Kisses from a very sad downunderdolly x

oh, go with that sadness Dolly! It's actually quite peaceful iyswim, to go with it. Sounds mad but, as you said in your letter to your architect friend, ime fighting against pain makes it much more painful - ridiculously so, actually. It's good to say - 'right, I'm sad. I'm desperately miserable and unhappy right now; I'm hurt and devastated...' and just sit with it. I think it's one of those 'truth' things ie it's true and sitting with the truth has a peace to it, sets you free.

Sorry to hear about your health problems Dolly. Can it get sorted?

Dolly, I just can't help thinking that there must be some org somewhere that can come to your aid. what about the British embassy? YOu are a national, in trouble abroad. Seems a wild card to suggest it but I can't help thinking that being trapped in the way you are (his attitude towards the 3 hours just shows how desperately unreasonable he is prepared to be ) just isn't right. Yes you went there of your own volition but you obviously didn't expect things to turn out the way they did. Interestingly, it is his desperate unreasonableness which could build you a case against him. He is imprisoning you, using the law to strap you down. There's got to be something somewhere, surely, that can come to your aid?

Also can I sound a note of caution about the sleeping tablets? They are highly addictive and should only be used for a few days - you don't want problems later on trying to come off them. If you are not sleeping I would suggest anti-depressants, which ime are truly wonderful. I could go off into serious science here but suffice to say they deal with the sleeplessness without getting you addicted or fuggy. In fact, they give you your life back at times of extreme stress - when adrenalin, pumping constantly, disables the normal feelgood brain chemicals [couldn't help the science, sorry]. Thank God for them is all I can say - they are one of life's miracles.

don't know if you could try Womens Aid here - 0808 2000 247 , or you could email them if you don't want the expense of a call? - to give you some advice? They are the experts on domestic abuse - which is what you are experiencing big time - and have every possible avenue of support available.

Keep going sweetheart. Be as sad as sad can be - it's only right, in the circumstances xxx

I've been following this thread for ages - the advice in it is so sage and I've found dee34 and dolly in particular so inspiring. Wanted to share a bit of solidarity with you dolly. I'm in a similar position (have posted under a different name before)- married a non Brit and moved to his country. Had always agreed that we would move to the uk and he would never prevent me from going back there to live with the kids. A few months ago he decides he wants to separate (again, strong denial from him but all hallmarks of OW) and is singing a different tune about the kids living in the uk. Similar situation with deluded headfuck inlaw family too. You have my sympathies dolly, and you are not alone.

Just wanted to comment on springys comment "he is imprisoning you, using the law to strap you down". One of the lawyers I've spoken to recently on my case said that unfortunately in 90% of cases the Hague convention is indeed used as a continued form of domestic oppression, which was not it's intended purpose. Dolly, can't remember if you've looked into it but have you thought about applying for 'leave to remove' so you can relocate with your ds to the uk? I think the fact that your ds is very young and you are his primary caregiver and responsible for his day to day care are both strong factors in your favour. Perhaps you could build up a case of why its in the best interests of your ds for him to move to the uk with you. I would also be keeping a log of every irresponsible thing hus father does iro your ds, every time he let's him down.

Hello gorgeous women. Thank you so much Springy and Well...for your lovely responses. Sadly I have spoken to about 4 lawyers and all say I have about a 5-10% chance of winning a relocation case which would cost me in excess of $100,000 oz dollars (50-60k). Problem is that DS is so little and could not be relied upon to maintain relationship over Skype etc which he could if was a bit older and because I used to have a high paid corporate job technically no reason I could not replicate this over here. Also if I went down the I am finding it so difficult to cope route, fine line between arguing case for parental support vs my lacking as a parent to cope when ex says he would have more custody of DS but is being 'nice' (read it suits him) to only have him 20% of the time - over here the law starts off with a presumption of 50/50 shared care which would properly kill me but he would get if he wanted to push the point and definately if I made out I could not cope. Fucker. I have a rich ex boyfriend (never married, on good terms with all his ex's - now lives in Sydney bizarely) who told me a few weeks ago that I am in his will for the tune of 50K (woop woop) and can use that now if I want to go to court.....am considering it but would most likely be a waste of money....

Ex sent emails tonight saying I am phenominally selfish for wanting to be away over DS birthday. Obviously not seeing the fact he can see his family and friends for 46 weeks of the yr vs my 6 weeks. He actually asked what difference does 7 days make?.....eer quite a lot when it is over 10% of the time I get with them.

Well...so sorry you are in a similar position. I hate to by cynical but if you suspect OW it probably is - my lawyer told me 85% of men who leave, leave for someone else - he may be in the 15% but if your gut is telling you that there is then there probably is. I was unwilling to believe my ex could be lying for so long but he was. I hope your situation is better than mine and huge love to you in dealing with it. I have personally felt it is like going back to teh 1950's - the odds seem very stacked against women in these situations. good luck darling and keep posting - god knows Dee has had her thread hi-jacked by me with incredibly good grace ; )

Am now drinking the cooking wine that I bought for the risotto.......so ignore any other posts this evening ; ) ....ps Springy - intersting point re sleeping tablests vs anti depressants...i took sleeping tablets for first time in my life when this broke for about a month....have been very much against AD's as my BIL (long story) killed himself when on them when he split from my sister (now happily remarried - long time ago but have had a horror of them since them)...will talk to my Dr about the options...thank you xxx

Dolly i am nearly 2yrs into it and after 1yr X was still lying to me ,so its actually only this year that i could deal with the "facts "Nowadays i just go with the "mouth moving still lying " when listening to him .I was told to sit with the emotions i was feeling whenever something hit me hard ,curl up and cry if u need to ,this wont kill u ,it will make u stronger .Get rid of the pain ,then let the blackness go forever ,dont keep picking at the scab ,that will only hold u back from enjoying ur new life ,u will shine ,u have already been thru so much .They are cruel weak bastards for all their lies ,i loved my X and couldnt let go ,every six months more lies would emerge ,floor me and leave me weak ,but we heal ,they will always have to live with what they have done .Once i learned the truth i didnt love him anymore but far easier for him to manipulate me by lies and keeping me hooked in .Just forgot to mention the 21yo gf lol ,what a tosser ,anyway now i just see a creep ,im indifferent and he has lost any power that he had over me .Big hugs ,you'll get there .
ROM Wales ffs .....how original ...twat !!!!
DEE hope ur cool will try and catch up ,was 40yo on Monday and although my X s gf said to me once ,one wants a grandma with 2 kids ,i beg to differ lol ,im still doing my kick boxing and having a right laff with my new mates .This break up was truly the best thing to happen to me,should be divorced by xmas ,getting rid of 12 and a half stone of angry doom was the best thing to happen to me ,bloody painful but seriously EMPOWERING !!!!!

darling Patience . Ex's girlfriend sound hideous. I am 41 and maybe many things but a grandma I am not - and at 40 your are definately not!! Thank you for your wise words. Your name says everything. I hope to achieve grace through patience. I am almost looking forward to sitting with misery and seeing it off after it has washed over me. I am so happy for you that you are now in a good place - I hope to replicate in a year's time xxx

"..would cost me in excess of $100,000 oz dollars (50-60k). ... I have a rich ex boyfriend (never married, on good terms with all his ex's - now lives in Sydney bizarely) who told me a few weeks ago that I am in his will for the tune of 50K (woop woop) and can use that now if I want to go to court.....am considering it but would most likely be a waste of money...."

er is it me or is there a link there?

I'd go for it Dolly. What price your freedom? The legal whatnots are seriously shit, no question (t-shirt - or, should I say, lots of those t-shirts ). I would seriously consider it - no point saying you 'may not' win - you may! Somebody's got to!

and erm this ex... fanciable??

Also, so sorry to hear about your exBIL - very sad . HOwever, this is not a usual reaction, only highly publicised. Yes, some people have an adverse reaction but tbh hoards and hoards don't. The benefits are tremendous and you can start on a low dose to see how you go. I couldn't rate them more highly, they saved my life, no question. Perhaps talk to your Dr about your past experiences and see if s/he can keep a close eye on you to ease you in?

Knickers. Sorry to hear about the advice you've been given re relocating dolly. I've been told thatbthe younger the child is the more likely it is they will be allowed to stay with their primary caregiver, however my stbxh (I need to think of a moniker for him don't I) is from another eu country so much closer than oz which might make a difference. I'd say I'm probably about 9 months behind you on this road. It was only a few months ago that he was promising to move heaven and earth for me to be happier, and the speed with which he has appeared to have detached has made my head spin. That's what makes me suspect an OW. That and the fact that he's changed all the passwords to his email accounts, spirited his phone away from me when he was over seeing the kids last week, has become obsessed with his appearance/dieting/working out and bought a whole new wardrobe including a an item of clothing which made me take all my strength to refrain from saying "Hey, stbxh, Max Wall called. He wants his trousers back".

Dolly, could you look in OTBT at a thread called WOU. Worldofuncertainty is seriously considering moving to Australia with her philandering husband. I have advised her to look at your posts.

BTW I think your strength and determination are amazing.

[ grin] - you made me LAFF with the Max Wall trousers wellthatsdoneit

they're such turds aren't they

hi 5s Dolly u will get there hunni ,ur on ur way ,think want u want ur destination to be ,visualise yourself living that new life and dont settle for less.Honestly the other bits will fall into place,if u have an ex that will help u go for it ,i believe we meet people for a reason ,even if it is for just a short time,we learn something and continue our journey .We are all fabulous ,big hugs xxxxxxxx

hello gorgeous ladies

So, first things first. Max Wall trousers made me laugh for the first time in yonks!! SO spot on darling. My ex (who is unfortunately very good looking anyway) is now very much in shape and has taken to dropping of DS with no shirt on and wearing 'young persons' distressed skinny jeans. Distressing in itself (not least as he now has the 6 pack back that he had when I met him.....in all seriously in the first few mental months I did wonder if he was in fact gay as he did a serious Shane Warne - minus the plastic face).

Second things. HUGE pitched battle this week about flights home. The only 6 weeks (that I am legally permitted to go) that I can go for work is over DS birthday as well as xmas. Not my fault. 20 emails back and forth with me insisting he sends me a solicitors letter as it is not my understanding I can't travel on his birthday and we are able to go. However ex phones my father (in the week he has all but admitted adultery) to tell him I am being unreasonable, it is unconscienceable that I would deny him the right to see him on his birthday (from the man who didn't want him on his w/end over NYE as he was shagging his mistress or his first holiday) and could he intervene. Astonishing lack of self awareness. I am the most selfish person on the planet only thinking of myself. A bit like Pontious Pilate telling someone they need to play a bit nicer with the children me thinks. However, it has helped somewhat harden my heart.

Springy, rich-ex is VERY nice but has multi-millionaire girlfriend his own age now. I was 29 when I met him and he was 16 years older so now a bit more of an age gap IYSWIM....he was kind of my Mr Big and had a glorious on and off few years living the high life on the river in Canary Wharf.....very much a flawed relationship though as he never wanted to marry or have children (neither of which he has done) but we were very good friends (although when I did see him he did half heartedly try and come back to my hotel which I didn't really take offense at but reminded him he had a girlfriend - god is this the lot of the divorcee do we have a sign on our heads that says enter here all are welcome (or maybe head is the wrong place ; ) anyway....court case would be 2 years and not sure I have the appetite to keep going for that long, plus they suponea loads of people which would pitch friend vs friend etc....still mulling it over - will let you know....

Met with some friends of ex today (who are now more my friends TBH) and they were outraged for me and also said that ex was so much nicer when he was with me and everyone thought he had become less arrogant and showy (I had no idea he was these things as met him overseas) so his loss etc etc...am sure they were partly just saying to be nice but it helped a little....the guy also had a tense conversation with him a few weeks ago telling him he should let me go back to the UK and to stop whining about having to pay half the mortgage until the house sold as it was the least he could do.....again, made me feel a little better that I am not insane in thinking this is an awful situation.

So. Still here, still breathing but its hard. Am going to focus on me next week. So far have survived week since Sunday evening on endless coffees, wine, cigarettes, one Big Mac meal and a sugar donut. Gosh that looks even worse written down on the page than it feels in real life. Will attempt to eat tomorrow but I just feel sick thinking of them together this w/end. I know they aren't losing any sleep over me so aware I am just punishing myself but baby steps.

Anyway Dee lovely, how are you. I joked about hi-jacking the thread before but now I feel like I have well and truly done it! Let us know how things are in your world sweetheart please.

Thelma - not sure about emigratees but she should investigate before going...I did not even think to think about as we were so in love that I would have bet the farm I wouldn't be in this place so quickly.

Well - hope you are OK. Again, I hate to be 'all men are xyz' as never used to be and don't want to but a lot of people told me that he would never leave for nothing, it was clear there was someone else and I just could not believe he could do that to me/us and thought he was just going off to find himself (vs finding himself in bed with someone else)...you never know but protect yourself as much as is possible as again - everyone told me this but thought no not him - they get more unreasonable about everything as time goes on and other people have their ear.

Thanks for your kind words Patience and kisses to you all xxxx

ooh Thelma was is OTBT thread?? am being dim.....

Sorry to hear you are having a particularly rough time dolly. One thing that caught my attention in this thread is that yours and dee's partners seem to have the same arrogant selfish lack of conscience or thought for anyone else as mine does. The level of sheer cuntery displayed by them beggars belief. No conscience or sense of morals or empathy at all. And it's frightening that they have turned to that so quickly from being quite the opposite.

Shit has all hit the fan here too today. Have told max wall that in light of us now having separated I will now be staying in the uk with the kids. This has always been our agreement and we signed a written agreement to that effect when I was first pregnant. He has gone ballistic and said I must have misunderstood and that he has never agreed to that which is absolute rubbish and our written agreement says so. So in addition to breaking my heart, screwed my career for him and spent the last years very unhappy in his country, he is now trying to welch on our agreement re the kids. I really can't believe that someone can be so amoral. He is displaying a lot of sociopathic/narcissistic traits now as your and dee's ex seem to be.

And yes, men and 'jeggings' - what in gods name are they thinking???? I managed to keep my mouth shut but had to turn my face away too as you could see the whites of my eyes all round my pupils which I fear would have given my thoughts away.

Dolly - think she could do with some advice

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/off_the_beaten_track/1267082-WOU

Hi - Dolly, how are you doing?! Sorry, didn't get on yesterday as had some freelance stuff to finish off for a deadline today.

It it were me, I would stick to my guns about going away - tough that ex wont be there for DS birthday (if he is that keen, he could always fly over and use some of his cash/annual leave...or maybe not). I would suggest a belated birthday bash when you get back - more than fair?! This a time when you DS can spend a birthday with your family and friends. He potentially has a number of years ahead to celebrate his birthday in Oz?

Lots to think about regarding rich ex and cash and whether to pursue a legal case.....so very, very hard. My heart goes out to you and your DS. You will both get through this awful, awful time...huge, huge hugs....

No such thing as hijacking the thread - I will insist that you come on here and post so that we all know how you are doing and offer any/all the support and help we can. Yes, baby steps all the way - I am doing some too every now and then - it really does help.

well - sorry you are having to go through this . You did make me laugh about the trousers/jeggings thing. My ex trundled up last week in lime green croc flip-flops - again. I didn't have the good grace to be silent, mainly as he was dropping DS off after nursery run - cant believe that he rolled up there in cargo shorts and flip-flops that a teenage girl would think twice about....anyway, this is who he is. Good luck to him (and yours and Dolly's jegging wearing ex). On a more serious note, if your ex is sounding anything like what Dolly and I have described, I would take the advice on here and get yourself and your DS protected asap. I made a slight mistake with my ex and played the long game (lots of reasons, but regret it now) and honestly, if they have any empathy/guilt its mainly in the early days.Give them time/time for new woman/OW to get settled in and things can go tits up....My ex who earns a lot (as does Dolly's) was fine paying his share of the mortgage and a contribution towards bills in the house (huge flippin house that he was mad keen to buy 3 years ago) up until 2 weeks after Ms San Fran rolled up....then he started pleading poverty (cough, cough). Coincidence, maybe? His arrogance has also surpassed him as he is now having his ego (and other body parts) stroked on a daily basis now she is here and they are living the dream....Have you seen a solicitor yet?

patience - happy belated birthday! Ignore the gf and snide comments - they really are on a planet of their own (I bet she probably thinks that she is the one that has had to suffer more than anyone in all this as well...mind boggling). Good to hear from you my lovely!

springy - spot on as ever . Have sent you a PM.

Well, the day has come when I have finally seen the pair of them driving around our housing estate. Had to happen sooner rather than later as he does live, oohhh, less than 5 mins walk (and a couple of mins drive) away! I saw him, had just left the small Tescos that serves the estate and was on my way home with DS in the back. He must have seen me as when I parked up at home there was a text saying that he was going for groceries....I went ape at that! You see, we had an agreement - suggested by the shit himself - that they would shop in Sainsburys (a bit further away) and not go near Tesco's. I did send an angry text back asking why they were going to Tesco's and then he called.....asked him the same question and he said, it was an emergency shop as Ms San Fran was on her period....He actually said this to me on the phone....Dont get me wrong, I dont have a monopoly on the shops in our town, but as said, on the estate, there is just the small Tescos and given that I am never allowed to ever, ever speak to her or even look in her direction (honestly....), the fact that they would shop elsewhere was a good thing, esp as imagine if I had bumped into them for the first time whilst in Tescos with DS....which was narrowly avoided today, by around 3-5 mins. I shouldn't be surprised as its just typical of their selfish behaviour (and seriously, if it was that much of an emergency why didn't she just send him out on a tampon run? And who doesn't know roughly when their period is, or have some spare stuff just in case?!). Anyway, calmed down and ignored the texts he sent me - him telling me to stop being so aggressive. I am more angry that they had the cheek to go to Tescos than actually the whole 'finally seen her/them' thing. Couldn't see her face properly and they both had sunglasses on.....

Will be back later - off to crack open that bottle of vino!

I think you have made a mistake and have over reacted here. Understandable why though.

It would have been a really good opportunity to show your detachment and that you are not the psycho bitch bunny boiler that he has probably made you out to be.

Went ape and angry texts? Way to give him exactly the ammo he wants to 'prove' what he is saying about you is true all over a supermarket

He has broken an arrangement to marry you, be with you as a family for life. He has broken an arrangement to be faithful and honest with you.
He has broken an arrangement to be there on time, when and as planned for your son.

Are you really surprised that he has broken a stupid arrangement over a supermarket?