Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Hi Darling
I am so sorry you are having a tough day. The relentlessness of the stress does take its toll and its completely understandable - indeed to expected - that it is sometimes overwhelming. What you need to try and remember is that you won't have to 'continue with this for much longer' because you will get the financial side of things sorted and you will at some point - maybe not right now - begin to feel a little better about things. You have done SO well Dee, really you have, you are being amazing and strong and capable even if you don't feel like it. You have got a job, you have taken your DS on lovely weekends and have been I'm sure a fabulous mum every day. I don't mean to sound patronising darling as I have been having some awful days recently too when I feel like I can't go on with this level of stress and responsibility but the reality is that we will and we do both because we have to for our DS and because we want to and because we will get the MOST amazing joy from them irrespective of what happens in our romantic lives. A tiny vignette but yesterday I bought a cheapy Thomas the Tank engine drawing table (plastic with Thomas shapes to colour in and pencils etc that fit on the table) and put it together when he was out of the room. When he came in he circled it like a big cat and then when he realised what it was he rubbed his hands together, jumped up and down and said 'is it really mine Mama, is it really a Thomas table'? It was such a moment of unaloyed pleasure and so wonderful to see that for the first time I properly realised when DH was missing. I have said before to friends' he is the one that is missing out' but whilst i have intellectually known this I haven't FELT it IYSWIM...but yesterday I saw it in a second. I am the lucky one. Not him. And if his character is such that he doesn't care about missing out on such things then I actually do feel sorry for him.

Can you do something nice for yourself tonight? maybe get M&S food (golly i miss it!) so you don't have to cook, or takeaway or buy a crappy magazine and have a bath? or maybe have a 'picnic' on a rug on your kitchen floor or pretend you are in a restaurant and light candles and have napkins (my son loves this when I pretend we are in an Italian). I'm sorry DS didn't want to go to nursery and to hear about him being upset in the bath. It is so so very very hard. On the nursery front, I am sure that he is having a lovely time (my DS was a bit like this with his new Kindy but seems to have had a nice day when I pick him up) on the sobbing front it is awful to witness, awful that we can't do our natural protecting them mode but it is a 'normal' reaction to the shitty circumstances and a good sign that he can express himself so clearly although very hard for you and heartbreaking to have to deal with along with everything else. He will be OK though. People tell me that and it fucks me off that he has to be OK - I used to and still do wish that he didn't have to deal with things to be OK - that thing should just be easy for him - but fundamentally I do know he will be OK - as will your son - because we are both to fabulous to let them be any other way.

Lots of love
Dolly (whose fresh face belies the fact I am feeling emotionally and physically exhausted ; )

I have been lurking on this thread since the beginning, but have not been able to give any advice until now. I just wanted to say, re your DS crying whilst going into nursery: remember that any child might do this. It might have nothing at all to do with your present difficulties. My DS used to sob every time he went to Playgroup - he was fine the minute I left. Maybe you need to stop worrying that every little sad mood has to do with his Father? All kids will play up at times! Good luck Dee :)

Hope you're feeling a bit better lovely Dee and that your smooth carefree (ha!) face Dolly is attracting some good vibes your way

Do you know what? (what?) I can't shift this idea that these men who do this despicable thing (or at least do it in a despicable way)

... apart from them behaving from a script that seems to be almost identical in every single situation like this (as though it's the same person - freaky )

... that they act as though they're rejecting/rebelling against their mother. ie like they're teenage boys, petulantly stamping their feet and saying "I will do what I want! I will do it the way I want! I will punish you, mummy, for making me take on responsbilities that I didn't want - you tricked me, mummy. I want to have fun and you are trying to stop me, making me feel guilty for wanting to have fun. You are so controlling mother and I'm here to tell you you can't control me any more!"

Hence them swinging between being a total fucking controlling, cruel shit... to being friendly and needing you to reassure them. Even, chatting like the old days, generally offloading daily goss and chitchat. They're acting like they're separating from their mother.

What do you think girls?

springy - thanks for the slowly, slowly advice....I tried that at work today - didn't get a thing done. Even sneaked into the ladies for a quick cry. A colleague did notice that I was not my usual cheery self, but just blagged a migrane to avoid talking about ex and having a proper breakdown. I just feel like I am in a slump, and very, very heavy as if every thing is a huge effort today. I have a lot of work to do tonight so hoping that will keep me distracted enough so that I can snap out of this and get back on an even keel. Am not sure why I am down in the dumps again....I know there will be peaks and troughs but today (actually, started late last night) has been really hard going...................

Notquite - yes, you are right (I should have shares in typing that expression out!). I think I am high-ex alert as he is back and ready to start with the demands, which I will cave into as he will make me feel guilty for keeping him and DS apart.....But, yes, I should probably put it down to DS being in a grumpy-gots mood or just that he had such a lovely time at the weekend that he didn't want to go to nursery and wanted to spend the day with mummy . Ah, that is a much better way to look at things (and yep, he was fine after I left (called up). I am a worrier when it comes to DS of late, but have to keep a fine balance as you and other posters have said.

I think my emotions get stirred up whenever ex goes away for a period of time and then comes back (and with either work or holidays, he has pretty much been away every single month since moving out in Jan). I definitely need some coping tactics for that (and also for the feeling guilty thing).

Romney - thanks for the boost in your post. My ex has been saying since the day he left here that he has regrets every day about his actions - didn't stop him from what he was doing at the time or maybe make him think twice about what his current actions are doing (he has still not moved and today announced that he was taking DS and girlfriend to a birthday party of one of his (ex's) friend's 2 year old daughter - why does he feel the need to tell me all this crap? He could have just said, 'can I have DS on Sunday, I have something planned/an event to go to....'. I think its probably because there will be some old mutual work colleagues there - am not looking forward to the rumour mill churning out how 'actually she is quite nice/friendly/lovely' etc....). I think my ex is only trotting those words out to keep the peace if that makes sense? He last wrote those words in an email on a Saturday night ('I know you wont believe me, but every day I regret my actions and what I have done and the hurt I have caused') and yet on the Friday before had told me he was getting married to her and then she arrived on the Sunday! I dont think he'll have any serious regrets until either DS and I move away to be nearer to family or for work or if I meet someone who then starts to play an active male role model figure in DS life. At the moment, he is still riding high on cloud nine and holidays galore....
Romney, I am so glad that your ex has recognised now (albeit too late) what he did and what he lost out on. And also really great that he can attribute your children's upbringing to you and your efforts - an inspiration. Just hope that my DS can come out of this similarly unscathed and, on a purely selfish note, that ex does one day truly realise what he has given up. You sound like you are in a very good place now - hope all is going great for you.

You're getting spot on advice about how to look at some of these things from a different angle and it sounds as though you are still very raw about the sheer pace of change in your life. That's no wonder. Its as though someone is having a laugh and making you take the opposite fork in the road from the one you would have chosen yourself. Problem is that if you keep Ex's agenda at the forefront of your mind, he will always be clouding your decision making.

Are you any closer to speaking to a solicitor? Once you have a clear indication of how you can proceed legally, I think you will start to feel stronger about the whole thing. All these petty actions of his regarding money and access are merely that - petty and ill thought through.

At the moment, he thinks his life has landed in this place of contentment. But how did he get there? He had to stamp all over your feelings (after 11 years) and those of his own son. I agree that your DS may have emotional ups and downs whether your ex was there or not, but I also think that at his age, he cannot articulate how he is feeling and by the time he can, his DF will be on the periphery of his life and your Ex may not get the approval rating from his DS he so dearly craves. Time will tell.

The other thing I wonder is whether Miss USA is overly thrilled to be flung into children's parties and socialising with your Exs pals. Bet that's one big party... not! Please don't worry about what friends/colleagues/random people think. The old saying about those people's opinions being of no consequence to you and your future is absolutely true.

Take small steps at the moment, but make sure that each one of them is in the opposite direction of 'airmiles man'. Whether his new life is the all singing and dancing show he is making it out to be is anyone's guess. Just make sure you are far enough removed from him when it all starts to sour and he ends up on your doorstep. Please make sure he is only linked to you via your DS. And NOTHING more than that.

Dolly - ah, thank you my lovely.....I know that you are going through a hard time at the moment (even harder than me). Yes, we will get through this, but it is so blimmin hard at times . I have resolved that when ex brings DS back this evening that I will not do my usual (when he has been away and comes round all bright, breezy and refreshed) and say a word to him. Will whack on a big fake smile and act bright and breezy right back at him. I think my anxiety about nursery was more down to feeling guilty (again) that DS is in nursery all day every day M-F from 8am to 5.30pm.....I felt tempted to ask about working p/t today but talked myself out of it as a friend said I should probably wait until my probation period is up which is September....will try and do a business case around then and submit an application in December. It would be amazing to be able to have a day off with DS again - every week, esp before he goes to school in 2012 .

Totally get the thing about them missing out and thinking it but not 100% feeling it, as I have at times not been able to completely revel in whatever delightful thing DS was saying/doing without thinking wistfully, 'cant believe that ex is not here/doesn't want to be here to see/share this moment'. Getting less and less now and I am used to sharing DS' funnies with family and friends. And of course, I guess the flipside is that he may want to share those moments with DS, but just not with me - that doesn't bother me so much now. It is knowing that this is not the life that I wanted for my DS and that this wasn't the 'deal' I thought I had with my ex who although not married, was, I considered to be, my life partner.

Lovely to hear about your DS' delight in the Thomas table - my DS would love that!! Will pinch the idea of a picnic in the kitchen for DS tea tomorrow when I am doing the pm nursery run (we usually have picnics outside, though we do have the odd one in my bedroom where we have bowls of fruit at 6am - DS's first brekkie as he cant wait until 8am at nursery having been up since 5.30am).

I read the lovebombing article and a few others on Oliver James (skipping those 'do not put your baby/toddler in daycares like nurseries until they are 3!' scary features) and like the premise. As ex has DS on Sunday for this birthday party, I think I will give it a lightweight go this Friday and Saturday! Will do an early pick up on Friday and prepare myself for a Saturday afternoon riding up and down on the trains and slurping chocolate ice-cream and chips! .

London was fab - saw family and went on the Thames clipper (where I day dreamed about meeting some rich, handsome blokey with a wharfside apartment who would put ex and his pot belly and 100k salary to shame - I am allowed to be superficial in my daydreams right...?). Got off at the London Eye and did some strolling, played in the park, watched the boats and the pods and the statutes and then back on the boat.

I have started a new diet - probably not a good idea with monthlies starting today, but need to get fit a bit (and want to get into some of my old work clothes, if only to save a few quid on a work wardrobe). Was getting there, but then slunk into a daily choc bar/pudding/wine habit.....funnily enough, one of the last things ex said to me on Tuesday morning last week as he picked up DS for am nursery run was 'you look really good' as was wearing an outfit that showed off weight loss (through stress - and the odd pathetic jog - springy, oh yeah, we didn't do any of that stretching stuff - note to self for Wednesday...). Just ignored him as outfit was most definitely not for him and the irony of losing 3 stone through stress and not eating in the first few months would be lost on him I think..... .

ps: how long does the botox last for? I am still too scared, but saw a friend with gel nails (dont even know what that means!) and thought, oh they look good. So going to get mine done this month if I can find a place round these parts that dont charge a fortune for them (in London, am sure you could probably get it down in the corner shop for 5p as nail bars seem to be everywhere and anywhere and prices are low).

hi dee, ive been following this thread for a while. you talk with such honesty and as fellow women i personally want you to know that youre doing so so brilliantly holding it together after all the shit youve been through. i know you dont feel great atm but the tide will change again and things will look up. karma exists and i do think youre ex is in for a loooong fall. your son, one day, will really admire you for all you are doing for him and, one day, will acknowledge and recognise how difficult this current period is for you. if i win the lottery i will come seek you because it broke my heart reading how guilty you feel leaving him at nursery. we have all felt that guilt, but we know why you are in this position. dee stay strong my dear youve come a long way and the future is looking bright, that new man is out there ... all will be revealed in time ... stay calm sending you hugs

Darling, of course it's hard when he comes back. He's right in your face, forcing you to play to his tune, manipulating you re ds and in a lot of other ways too. It will be lovely when you are off his patch as it were, on your own territory. You know that imagery you get taught in therapy, about us being like a house with a fence round it and a gate; and that no-one is allowed through the gate or beyond the fence unless they respect your land and treat you with respect? A boundaries illustration. At the moment, he doesn't respect your fence or your gate, he comes and goes as he pleases (literally, figuratively, emotionally). Of course it's 'lovely' when he goes and hard when he comes back, because he starts it all off again: horrible games, his totally cuckoo take on the world and, more importantly, his take on you, which he is forcing you to comply with.

Have you talked to your solicitor about access yet? the law doesn't like kids to be to-ing and fro-ing with no structure. In my experience, one of my children really hated all the bouncing back and forth and for her we had to get things set in concrete so she knew what was going on. Most children need routine and perhaps ds is getting confused by the hotch-potch of access with his dad. frankly, it also wouldn't hurt for ex to be kept out of the fence, to follow a strict rota. it would at least send him the message that he can't run this show, dragging you and ds around to comply with his insane, absurd fantasy.

I hope you're feeling better tonight Dee. Vit B6 is great for the monthlies I find (or a general B complex, good for the nerves) xxx

oh and pleeease don't start the diet when you're grappling with the monthlies! You need stabilised blood sugar (aka regular and solid meals) during those dodgy days and a diet will send everything off-kilter. Maybe why you've had such a squiffy day? If you must limit your food, try slow-release foods eg protein, complex carbs (brown rice/wheat); and try to avoid sugar (which includes too much fruit).

Sorry about the science but as someone who has been all over the shop in the past during horrendously stressful times, I have learnt some simple things to keep me on an even keel. xx

Hi Everyone - GOD having a shocking week so hope you are doing better Dee. I think I am in your place from a few days ago where I am overwhelmed by things. In no particular order:-

1. Last week ex wanted to talk as friends...too long to explain but by his texts he implied that he wanted us to change and try and be friends and then who knows. Like an IDIOT I wanted to believe this - anyway net net all total bullshit as he just wants me to shut up and be nice to make his life easier. He knows how much I wanted our family to work so to dangle this is, I feel, a new depth of callousness and to be honest it has floored me in a. me still wanting it b. me being stupid enough to believe he was genuine as surely no one could be that low c. the realisation that is that low.

1. So emotionally exhausted - DS being unsettled since he saw him on Tuesday - wet himself 4 times (has not done for yonks) and bit a child at kindy today. The biting part is prob part age, part unsettled and - shamefully - part me having TOTALLY lost it with him yesterday when he peed ALL OVER a HUGE area of our carpet (trying to sell house so not great) and yelled at him quite nastily (feel awful) and then just broke down and cried in front of him on my knees (feel even more awful) until he came over and put his arm around me and said don't cry mama, I will look after you and I will be your baby and a daddy too. I am very very very ashamed of myself for acting like a child in front of him and very worried that he will ape my anger and then despair - he is very frustrated and quite prone to anger at the moment and I hate to admit it but he may be mirroring me. I am just desperate that I may have taught him this as I know I have been and generally am a good mother (not perfect of course but pretty damn good) and angry that I have put in this position although of course my behaviour is ultimately my responsiblity.

1. STILL trying to sort flights home. I wanted to fly via Paris (exactly same price as UK return flight) but as this isnt technically in agreement he has been an arse about it. Finally tonight I get a sanctimonius email saying that once again (not sure what the again is) he is being asked to go outside of agreement "If there is no additional cost incurred by doing this, I will acquiesse, but do not regard this as a preceedent that should be refered to or taken advnatage of in the future."......at the end of a quasi-legal lot of waffle.....anyway I know I should have said ok thanks but instead I said something to the effect of god forbid he should do something that makes no financial difference that would benefit his DS (we were going to eurodisney) and we will stick to the agreement to its letter......I feel so fucking unbelievably FURIOUS at him for being this person that I am scared I can feel such rage. He is MAKING me stay here yet makes even a flight home for which is obliged to pay for my son a HUGE drama.

So. I am woefully failing at distancing myself. I think part of the problem is that it has been SO nice having my DS all the time when he was away and not having to see or deal with him and now its just back to reality of the fucking horror of it all.

Anyway. Thus ends the pity fest thread hi-jack. Not even my Botox is strong enough to mask my frown today ; ) xx

Bless you Dolly.

My dear, I was exactly the same as you for quite some time. He is pressing your buttons and you are squealing. He's enjoying it, do you see? Gets a rise out of you every time. I'm only saying that to galvanise you, trying to give you an angle that could turn it round for you. I remember literally quaking with anger, my insides literally shook with rage (I realised that#s why the quakers are called that but they probably quaked with awe or something..).

I also remember looonging for us to be friends, to be friendly; longing for the aggro to pass, the manipulation. Like the situation you describe, he would start to become reasonable and friendly and I'd think "at long last, we've turned a corner". But it always turned out he was buttering me up for another stunt that left me reeling, often involving the children so I was powerless to do anything about it.

He is not your friend Dolly, he is your bitter enemy. Personal enemy. I very much doubt he will ever change. please don't keep hammering on the door that is never going to open, hammering until your hands are bloodied (dramatic, sorry, but just about sums it up). the door is not going to open or, if it does, it will be to do you over. I'm really sorry to say it darling but there is a saying that the truth sets you free and I hope that in this instance it does that for you.

Tomorrow is another day, let the past flow past like a fast-flowing river. There's nothing you can do about it. Sincerely hope you have a better day/week ahead. xxx

Sorry I'm posting so much . Where's everybody gone? hols?

Hello.......sorry been away for awhile, mulling over things.....

Dolly - it seems like we keep batting the emotions over to each other. So sorry that things have swung the way they are at the moment. Funnily enough, it seems to be under similar circumstances. I always fee quite free when ex is away and can immediately sense my hackles rising on the day he returns. I then normally have a very adverse reaction to him and go off kilter a bit, which is what I think happened with my being in a funk since Sunday. Could be the same for you? Have no idea how to deal with it, though I guess recognising it (if relevant) can make us more capable of dealing with it from the outset - so we control 'it' as opposed to 'it' controlling us?? I agree with springy (and no doubt many, many others who have been through similar), your ex is not your friend (well, not now anyway) and it is hard to disentangle from them, but it is so vital (as I can finally see) for our sanity. I dont think of my ex as my enemy (as opposite to being a friend) but I try and see him now as indifferent. Very hard, what with him being DS' dad and all, but I have spent so much time trying to rationalise to myself, friends, here about his actions and words that I have (finally!) got to the point where I give up. I now see ex as being in some alternate mental state where he really does believe what he is saying....there will be days when I get sucked in again and he will put me in a tail-spin, but again, as the lovely springy says, this usually comes after a period of him being reasonable and nice (when I say nice, I mean that he will send me a text starting 'Hi Dee34' or will back down on some crazy demand - the crumbs of niceness are that pathetic for me). I cant be friends with my ex as he doesn't 'have my back' anymore. He is just as likely to go and tell new girlfriend every single thing I tell him and really, after what he has done, I am not that keen or desperate for friends that I would take up his offer. Not sure if this is helping and tbh, I am going through ups and downs, but just really want you to know that I know what you are going through, and please, please dont beat yourself up about it. Ditto about the good mum bit. You are an amazing mum - as said, you are going through all of this crap in a country that is not your home and without your immediate family physically nearby. That is a lot to handle and you are doing it brilliantly! I appreciate the whole overflow of emotions and how you must have felt when your son comforted you, but, as you rein this in and adapt, dont forget that it was not you that forced this situation and circumstances. My ex can tell all and sundry about how unhappy he was for x years (funnily enough, saw the friend today who went with us to CP the weekend after he first slept with then OW and she is still in shock how he could have been acting like he did in front of her and her hubby; we were sat cuddling on the sofa after kids were in bed, he would have his head in my lap whilst I stroked his hair, looking out for each other, making his sodding morning croissant etc, but, I was obviously a bit too dim to interpret this as his being utterly, utterly miserable) , but he could have left with a clean break. So please, remember that these circumstances were not of your doing! And sending you a very un-MN hug ((((dolly)))).

DS had a bit of a to-do this morning. Wouldn't go with ex in his car to nursery. So after trying everything in the book (including bribing him with chocolate which he refused) I said I would take him in, though was half ready as was obviously planning on getting myself work ready after ex had picked him up. Ex came along too - told him to get in the back with DS. He of course loved this on the way there (ex that is), though didn't have such a cheesy grin when on the way back to the car (he took DS in - he had calmed down a lot) as he started to approach the passenger seat I told him 'er, no, in the back please'. He gave a 'she is crazy' chuckle and amazingly I didn't respond. My actions were probably petty, but I just didn't want him in my space/face (bad enough he was in the car). He answered a call whilst I drove - seemed to be about him and her (very animated and he said at one point 'what do you need us to bring'). Again, took every ounce not to poke around and ask questions at first but then just turned on the radio and dropped him off.....I hope that I am turning a corner (again - been so many!). Even the utter, utter dislike of him is waning a bit - again, being replaced by indifference I think.

As springy says the truth will set you/me/everyone in similar circumstances free.....

McNaughty - sorry, cross posted I think! Thanks for the kind and honest words. I have had to delay seeing solicitor to next week as had a review with the Director of my unit. I know the basics from my first visit to the same solicitor back in January. But want to get the whole access and money side ironed out (though on the money front, if push comes to shove will just go down the CSA route - I think he is that far gone now in terms of his new relationship that he sees me as the enemy and any murmurings he may have made earlier about doing x or y are now invalid. Access is something that is defo at the forefront of my mind - so need to take a big gulp and tackle that in the session. I also want to explore the idea of giving DS my name (so double barrelled, too much hassle to get ex's 'permission' to drop his name and he wouldn't do it anyway). The idea of ex, his new-girlfriend-soon-to-be-wife and my DS having the same surname and my having a completely different one doesn't sit too well with me at the moment. And with new nursery coming up in August and school next year, this may be a good time to change it at least in principle, if not legally just yet.

You are right though in that I have been focusing too much on ex's agenda/actions to determine my own. I guess there is a subtle difference between being rightly cautious of anything he says/does right now and the other extreme of formulating my life around him/them. Yep, small steps - in the right direction - that will be my aim..

I will certainly remind myself of that saying about other folks opinions over the weekend. Ex's re-found best buds as the same people he just couldn't bother with for the last x years and not my cup of tea anyway, so yes, need to start seeing that the opinion of these people is most definitely of no consequence to me .

itwasthat - thank you for the warm and kind post. Yes, I have huge waves of guilt about my DS being in nursery and also that I may have contributed to the current situation he is in (only in as much as the relationship part, though ex doesn't seem to be able to give me anything other than that we didn't have enough sex and I was a bit on the tubby side, oh and that pesky bout of PND wasn't a barrel of laughs). I do count myself lucky in that I was able to spend a good chunk of his first 2.5 years at home with him either on maternity, working part-time or being a SAHM. I know some people dont get that, so I am very grateful and hold very fond memories of our days out/time together just pottering/going to baby classes/walking to the park/making our day up as we liked etc. All good stuff.
Love the idea of a new man and a bright future - that has made me smile. Huge, huge thanks.

springy - hols?! I wish!!! Thanks for the Vit B tip! Diet is more 'healthy eating and wine at the weekend' as opposed to anything radical for now. Managed to get another run in yesterday and ran a lot further than last time - will still be a slow and surely approach to completing a half-marathon course!

Dolly - how are you doing today? Hope its been a better day than yesterday. Take care, dx

Hi Dee Lovely

Thanks so much for asking after me. The truth is I'm not in a good place but really trying to get myself out of it. I think it is the year anniversary plus was ex's birthday yesterday and just four years ago on his 40th I was pregnant, arranged an amazing day for him in London (posh barbers in Mayfair, Gordon Ramsey lunch, Harvey Nichs shopping, West End theatre) and I would have bet my life that we would have been together for his 90th...and then it occured to me I literally DID bet my life (my career, country, family) on him and I lost. So. Lots of navel gazing. If I am brutally honest I think that I can't move forward properly as despite what I have written here about his behaviour etc I would ultimately have him back if he wanted it. I intellectually know what is wrong with this statement and I do know I deserve better etc but this is the reality. So I am trying to find a way to make this statement null and void and have written a list of things I need to do.....ladies I am SO aware that this sounds so fucking lame given his cuntfuckwittery and I am ashamed to write it but I think I need to recognise that it is true in order to find a way around it.....ideas on a postcard please! I had my first w/end in yonks without DS and arranged loads of things - coffee, lunch, drinks yesterday and breakfast today then a big run and late lunch on my own....I'm not at peace at all but I had a nice late lunch in a cafe over the water here looking at the seaplanes and pelicans and hoping that I can make a life here work. Slightly dancing on the titanic as I can't afford to be eating lunch out really but hey fucking ho. will sell something else on ebay! Am also feeling lots of friends pressure to use year anniversary to 'draw a line' and make my own life....understand the impetus and thought but mildly irritated by it.....how are you doing anyway darling....give me some good news!!!

I think that being honest with yourself about the real state of your heart is positive Dolly. I'm a great believer in the truth - without it you (one) is building on sand.

YOur friends wanting you to 'move on' are friends who care and loathe this man for doing this to you - they loathe him and want you to too - but I'm with you on it being irritating. grief is also the long haul and a lot of people can't tolerate long haul - particularly with popular psychology insisting that the whole thing is done and dusted in a couple of months.

So the truth, however difficult, is a great place to start - the best place imo. Of course you want him back! You want what you had, what you thought was for ever - you want it all back, you don't want it to have been snatched away and you left high and dry. You know he's being a cunt but for a long time he wasn't a cunt and you want that man back, that non-cunt man, that fantastic relationship. Of course! That's grief imo and grief takes its wretched time. ((hugs))

Dolly - so lovely to hear from you. So sorry to hear that you are going through this fraught time. Huge, huge hugs to you..You are going through an awful lot at the moment, and I can only imagine some of the pain you are going through with being in Oz and the circumstances with your ex. I think that I have read somewhere that the anniversaries and birthdays and other significant dates can be really gut-wrenchingly emotional.

Like Springy says, I think some (majority) of the comments from friends will be well-meaning. I think true friends do not want us to hurt and I would guess that any suggestion of 'drawing a line' is meant in good faith (though, having been on the receiving end myself, I agree it is a tad annoying). They want to see us happy - and with true friends, it wont be because it makes things easier for them/they cant cope with our laments etc, but because they want to see us shining and happy again.

Ditto, grief varies for everyone, though dont beat yourself up - you are dealing with the 1 year anniversary, ex's birthday, you're being pregnant at this time x years ago etc. And this is on top of all the other crap ex and the situation has been dealing out (so your ex going on holiday for 2 weeks and leaving you with the childcare - with no family nearby, your ex still refusing to admit that there is someone else, having to find a job that is not necessarily what you would want to be doing, having to make ends meet (whilst your ex can go on hols at a moments notice) etc....and there is more I am sure). Think about how far you have come and all the amazing places you have still to go. They will most certainly come.

I have had moments (less and less so now - no idea why? Maybe because I truly cannot stand the man as he is now?) when I have felt the same. Where, I have considered for a flash how I would take him back if he ever came knocking at my door. This was more intense in the beginning, but slowly it got chipped away as he just put things in place that I knew (and I think he must have known) would close the door firmly shut e.g. her being here in Feb and him not telling me, him introducing her to his parents and vice versa, him going off on these many holidays, him getting engaged, him ruining my xmas, NYE, birthday and mothers day etc. As recently as June he asked me 'what is the worst thing I have done to you [during this mess] and how can I make it up to you?'. He seemed a bit perplexed when I replied 'its been everything'. He said/says all the right things, and for a split-second I 'fall' for the lines and then he reverts to his new type. I am a lot wiser now, from experience and the expert advice on here - including from you my dear! - so the reeling from the shock that actually he had no substance in his caring words, and he was probably just looking for the right thing to say, becomes less intense and recovery is quicker (most of the time). I have no doubt that there will be flashes in the future when I think 'if only' or 'what if', and who knows what state I will be in come that time. But, I am in a slightly easier position (sorry, dont know how else to phrase it, but hope you know what I mean?). I am in the UK and can move as I like, I was able to get back into my career industry. I have been very, very lucky. But Dolly, please know that you have shown such incredible strength and courage throughout all that you have been subjected to - it has been a lot, a hell of a lot you know. You are an incredible mummy and one day (soon) you will be able to look back on all of this and know in all certainty that you are in a better place. I have absolute faith in this. I agree with Springy - you want the life you had and the life you were going to have (I do/have felt the same). I dont think our ex's were like this deep down from day 1 of our meeting them - something happened (they tell it as they fell out of love with us and in love with someone else) and they changed. My ex was my greatest champion and confidant at one point (I could have done no wrong and he really used to encourage my ambitions and dreams as I did him), but he is not now. He does not 'give a hoot what I think of him now and the man he has become' - his words. I think you have been through a lot in recent weeks - certainly a lot that would have lain others low and you are still standing. You should be ever so proud. Stay strong and post back on here (or PM) as much as you can. Hugs and love.

No good news from me - well, no massive bad news, so thats a highlight?! Had my first toddler version of 'having a lovely time at daddy's' moment (though it came from ex). DS has been having a few tantrums and strops of late (not long lasting and usually get them under control). He had about several yesterday including when we were out at a work organised family fun day. Anyway, sent a text to ex this morning running down DS' day (so I dont have to talk to him during handover) and said he has been up and down etc etc. Got a text back this evening giving me a run-down of DS' day today and it starts 'He has had a lovely day - no strops etc'. Arrghh!!! I am chuffed of course that DS had a lovely time, but DS was with ex and new girlfriend at the party playing happy families, so that did make me a bit un-nerved iyswim? Though DS had a lie-in until 7.30am today - so am guessing he was quite chilled and well-rested for today! Ah well, guess the most important thing is he wasn't out of sorts today. Though I am dreading DS coming back one day saying her name or asking for her......will get the wine, choc and pizza in in anticipation of that moment (so I can justifiably wallow in my own misery).

Ex kindly sent me 2 photos today - am tired of asking him to stop, so will just ignore (as have been doing). I hope that he has been sending them in good faith (i.e. here is DS - look he is okay and happy) and not for some other ulterior reason (funnily enough, I am strangely paranoid and distrustful when it comes to ex).

Dolly - forgot to say, the list of things you want to do sounds fab. I keep meaning to do this too - you have given me the impetus to get cracking on a list of my own!

So. Ex calls last night to tell me that he is seeing someone - the girl I knew all along - the girl to whom he was sending texts in the middle of the night when DS was 7 months old. the girl we was seeing througout most of our marriage. he is only telling me out of 'courtesy' as DS will meet her soon. inlaws and sister in law have known for 6 months although not met her. They thought he had split up from her (guessing they had an aborted holiday and she prob gave him an ultimatum about meeting DS/finally telling me, hence his niceness when he thought she had gone). I thought I would feel better when I knew I wasn't going mad, I thought I would feel better when I knew I wasn't all the things he said I was but I don't. I feel wretched and humiliated and destroyed. I can't believe my inlaws knew for so long when they saw me being how I have been (although appreciate it is a difficult position but i would have said tell her or I will) and I can't believe it hurts so much when I knew anyway. I was just hoping it was someone else/someone knew. I can't bear to think about my DS meeting her. I'm sorry. I haven't slept and I can't stop crying. I feel like I am going insane. FIL also said that I should see ex's therapist as he is 'so much nicer these past three months'. Not so you'd notice I felt like saying....and fuck glad he can afford to see one when we are struggling so much. SIL also said that from what she has heard OW is very intelligent and grounded so will be very careful of her relationship with my DS. Again, possibly true but NOT WHAT I WANT TO HEAR RIGHT NOW. Oh god. tell me it will get better.

Dolly - so sorry that this is happening to you. And that all the emotions are being picked at or dragged back up again. As you say, even though you knew/had your very strong suspicions about what was going on, this all coming out to the surface will still leave you reeling, of course it will and that is totally normally, totally to be expected. Dont be hard on yourself or beat yourself up about this. Please dont.

It will get better - trust me. You have had to deal with a year (actually more than a year by the sounds of it) of your ex seeing this other woman and not saying a dickie bird and making you feel as if you were going crazy to even think that he had someone else. Not sure if you recall, but when my ex's new girlfriend finally hauled herself over here, I was knocked for six. My posts around that time probably reflect that. And yet, as the ex told me 'you always knew she was coming here in July'.....knowing is completely different to the reality of it happening I found. But, I have mostly come out of this the other side now - and so will you. Take your time, dont do anything you dont want to and dont feel pressured into doing things you dont want to. The introductions will be awfully hard, and again, I was walking around a nervous wreck when I knew it was happening the first time. I had to force myself to talk to ex about it, as I wanted to know when it was going to happen and also I wanted to set some 'rules' in place beforehand. It kind of gives you back some sense of control on the proceedings. It will hurt the first few times, but, as lots of folk told me on here (and the lone parents section) it does get easier in as much as the pain does lessen. You will miss your DS and even more so when he is away with them, but it seems most people get to a point where they dont think about it as they get on with other things (not sure really as still working through this). Yesterday my ex rolled up to a toddlers birthday party with DS and new girlfriend and some mutual friends were there. During the day when DS was away, I had a little thought (my paranoid side emerging) about how they would all have a splendid time and how everyone would be saying the exact same things as your SIL said (ex has already told me that new girlfriend is ever so nice....pah!), but then I thought, so what? Then I heard about how DS had been an angel with his dad and her and I wobbled a bit again, but now, back to okay.

Make sure you see/speak to lots of friends and post back on here. Keep strong - it is perfectly fine to have a cry. You are dealing with the shock all over again, but you will bounce back even quicker. Someone told me this on here and I would never have believed them as I was in such despair at the time, but it does happen.

Sorry for such a short reply - DS is having another lie-in (sleep clock arrived last week) and need to wake him up in a min so we can be out the door for 8am.

Will try and log back in the day.

Take care,
Dx

omg Dolly. omg. This has got to be just one huge headfuck. This is the family he grew up in and this is how they deal with something like this? omg they are one headfuck family.

As you say, if I were in that situation I would have said tell her or I will. This is a huge betrayal - as if you're not sore in the betrayal dept as it is! oh yea and thanks SIL for letting me know that OW is sensible, balanced etc - not that balanced eh? She's just stolen someone's husband and fucked up a family. Dolly my dear, get away from this appalling family. It is no wonder you feel completely arse over tit, all over the place - this is what happens when you are involved with people who are a total headfuck. I think that people like this don't necessarily know what a headuck they are. But certain things characterise them: there are constant shocks and confusion, you can never predict what is going to happen next, you are never quite sure what is going on, never sure of their loyalty - looks like you have it one minute, doesn't the next but you doubt yourself because they seem so kind and reasonable. In short, they aren't: they aren't kind and the last thing they are is reasonable.

So hard to say get away from them when they are the only 'family' you have in Oz but Dolly you must. There will be much more of this if you hang around. The confusion when you are involved with them is immense, as you have experienced. This is the family he was brought up in - it says a lot and goes a long way to explaining his behaviour around you and the split. What a total headfuck [cry]

I'm so sorry Dolly. YOu will get over this, you will recover - you really will. Just that now it is very, very painful. Sending you as much love as possible from blighty xxx
ps I would recommend some therapy to help you cope with all this. I think you have got to the nub of what this family is about and need professional support to get your head around it. Therapists know what people get up to and it can be a light in the pitch darkness to hear you are not the one who is mad. It is also a great solace.

Thanks Dee Darling

I think I am numb today. I am trying to figure out why I feel so awful and I think it is because:

1. Despite the fact it probably was the case before, there is not more hope. Our family is officially dead and over and there is no way back, no chink, no anything.
2. He has been lying consistently for years. He had the opportunity to be truthful in the weeks/months after leaving. He chose not to be and instead suggested I was mentally ill because of my obession with her. I could have been feeling this hurt months ago which would have been the same but now a year later I may have been feeling better, instead I feel back to the beginning on the shaking, throwing up, grief stage
3. I chose to believe the biggest amount of bullshit during our marriage because I was unwilling or unable to believe that he could cheat on me - I feel very very stupid and naive and pathetic for allowing myself to be convinced of his innocence.
4. He was making (all be them vague) overtures to get back together when - it seems they split up recently - ie shit girlfriend left me hope my idiot wife will take me back - oh hang on, hot girlfriend will have me back - I assume on the ultimatum he tells his family about her and she meets son.
5. He has been seeing her and getting to know her son (I believe school age but when I asked it is surprise surprise 'none of my business' - I feel sick knowing he has been spending time with him and refusing to babysit our son as he is always away.
6. I cannot believe that I fell so hard and fast in love with someone that has abandoned respect and common decency for another person.

So. trying to figure it out, trying not be a mess, trying not to punch my MIL who told me today that 'you won't want to hear this but I think you are makign things worse for yourself by not getting a proper corporate job again as it woudl do you good and help you cope with things, you are wasting your talents and wallowing', trying not to trash every single memory of our marriage, trying not to imagine them having another baby together after the loss of mine, trying not to think that DH must have been relieved there was something wrong with our second lost baby so he could escape his hideous wife, trying not to imagine their stupid, relieved, excited were are out in the open conversations tonight and more than anything praying of the silver bullet of not caring about any of that, forging my own life, feeling release from a duplicitious shit, and distancing myself from their lying and deceit. Clearly not being too successful at that yet.....but I hope I will get there......

ooh cross post Springy, thank you darling....hollow laugh but FIL (nicest of the bunch) said that he would pay for the same therapist DH has been seeing has the last three months he has been so nice to be around and is doing so well and isn't it all marvelous. Yes, combined with fucking his mistress I am sure he is mr fucking sunshine. for the love of GOD. Yes, you are right, I need to distance myself from them. I saw today his mother has not empathy. get a job and stop complaining about having no money (I was at work when she said this - abeit a low paid one as I don't want to get a nanny and do 60 hour week (which my profession calls for) until DS is at school. they can all go to the far side of fuck. and fortunately OW is so intelligent and grounded and takes no shit (apparently from what they have been told) they will have marvellous company. Even if she was frickin mother theresa and the dalai sodding lama I don't need to hear that right now. Another friend has told me today (she didn't know who she was but of her existence) that they have been off and on and that she 'has his measure' and isn't putting up with his lying etc ....sound idyllic....and so pleased he is thinking of his son in terms of when he meets her rather than responding to some ultimatum given they have recently broken up....as you can tell I am definately in the anger stage. roll on acceptance. I fear it may be elusive for a while.

Dolly my heart goes out to you, I have just passed my year anniversary and heard that he and OW are moving to Wales, which was our retirement dreams for the future, I hit a low on my rollercoaster ride but luckily I dont seem to stay on the lows so long now. I heard last week that he is kind of happy but that it is hard to be happy when he is living with the guilt of what he did to me, that sent me down again but only for a few days, I will not let a lying, deceitful, deluded bastard keep me down. I really feel for you, it is so hard to learn the truth it has been such a long time coming and although you already knew in your heart of hearts it has now been confirmed. Stay strong sweetie.

Your doing so well Dee.

Springy your posts are amazing, the advice is spot on.

Rom x