Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Hi Darling - me checking in. Gosh it does sound like he is mightily erratic in terms of his communication and sorry that you are at the receving end of it and have to navigate it all whilst keeping your sanity. And I know it has been commented on before but the bullshit about you not looking or talking to the OW is both highly unreasonable and frankly deranged. Driven by wanting to be in control or because he has peddled untruths about you being a lunatic ex and doesn't want to get found out. I know you know this but he does not have any right to dictate these terms which aside from the fact is plain crazy would also be hugely detrimental to your son in terms of teaching him about normal social interaction.

I am sorry to hear that you DS is showing signs of sadness. As you and your HV say, it is good (within reason) that he witnesses real emotions but it doesn't make it any easier to witness does it. It still breaks my heart when my DS talks about missing Daddy and other families that have Daddy at home all the time which he has been doing recently (plus the wanting a brother or sister etc). It makes me sad and also very angry at DH for creating this legacy for him.

Talking of lunatic ex's I sadly became one last night for the first time since the immediate aftermath of ex-DH leaving. I'm angry at myself for allowing myself to be so but ex had insisted on talkign to me the other day about car things and I texted to say email me i'm not having a good day etc and he just called and called until we spoke. I wanted to speak to him about a possible Christening when we are back in UK (we always planned to have DS christened in UK and I would like to continue with this despite his absence - although did say he could come over if it was important to him) and got his answer phone which was changed to him being out of the office for 2 weeks. Now, I did figure - as he dropped him being away- that he was having some kind of holiday but he told me he was travelling for work and then taking a few days - rather than the reality of him taking a two week holiday to god knows where (he does not tell me anything). Whilst I intellectually know he can do what he likes the thought of him swanning of with the girlfriend that does not exist for 2 weeks whilst we are totally strapped for cash made me see red and combined with 4 glasses of wine, I ended up calling him mobile about 12 times......so....definately played into his hand as am sure non existant girlfriend was sympathetic to her wonderful boyfriend who has a mental ex wife and can picture the scene clearly....when I met my ex he had been separated for 7 months (but ex w was in different country and they had no children) and he told me his ex was looney...It did raise a few alarm bells at the time but confirmed later in the realtionship by several other people but I am now beginning to think that her mental health was driven by him if he treated her in the same way that he has treated me....anyway, point being - slap me for being stupid and use as a learning for yourself darling!

other than that meeting up with some of his/our friends tomorrow for yum cha which will be weird as the last time we all got together was with DH (he has dropped off planet despite the fact they are his old school friends and hasn't seen them as presumably hiding his non existant girlfriend so he isn't the bad guy) and then in two minds but meant to be seeing my ex SIL and her family as i miss seeing DS interact with his cousins - and also miss them as they are lovely children (she is divorced and has kids the same w/end as my ex so i don't get to see her children - she is in another relationship now and have a step neice who is also lovely) - but she and ex are close so we end up talking about nothing ....will see how I feel tomorrow I guess....have also been snappy with my DS as have been coldy fluey sick for a week or so now - can't shake it as don't have any respite now DH is away - so feeling a bit of a loser all round. hey ho.....onwards and upwards.

anyway, hope you have a lovely weekend Dee and keep an even keel (unlike me!).

Lots of love Dolly xx

Look on the bright side.....you've got rid of a complete tosser.

aw Dolly, you sound in a bit of a pickle [big mummy hug]

here's where you went wrong: "...and I texted to say email me i'm not having a good day etc and he just called and called until we spoke."

Of course he did! Red rag to a torturer/preditor tbh - don't ever tell him yu're having a bad day. NEVER tell him you're having a bad day, ALWAYS present 'fine', like a plank, no fluctuation.

Sorry to jump in when you're feeling crap and immediately tell you 'where you went wrong' but like that shark in Finding Nemo, a bit of blood and he's on to the chase and will bombard you, knowing you are weak (or feeling weak, to be precise). [another big mummy hug]

Are you looking after yourself? I mean the basics, like food, sleep, exercise. Can't be underestimated - the value of it - when yu're facing an almighty crisis. Sounds so simple, easily forgotten when you're up against it, but it REALLY is the best thing you can do for yourself at a vile time like this. Got to keep strong eh Dolly. Take a tonic, get on anti-d's (brilliant stuff) or natural stuff like st johns wort plus herbal sedatives. What's the weather like down under at the mo? probably wintery, so get as much sunshine as possilbe eh.

you know it makes sense

ooh thanks for the mummy hug springy, I need it. I am pissed off at myself for being frozen in feeling so awful but i'm just overwhelmed at the moment. i've always been a fairly capable person - senior job, robust mental health, roll up sleeves and get things done and achieve etc etc - so I think most people think oh she will be fine she is so xy and z she will get a wonderful job, meet a marvelous man, be fabulous and funny again which is of course nice but i feel SO far from that I don't recognise myself.

thank you for asking after me - so sweet - I am not looking after myself as well as I should - begun to eat a bit more (lost about 2 stone from when this all started - although had been heavier due to 2 x pregnancies - but now up 3/4 stone from that so look a bit more healthy) but realistically drinking too much - not drunky drinking but every night glass(es) of wine which I need to stop (only really used to drink w/ends) and (horror) begun to smoke a bit again which I gave up in my late 20's (now 41) which I definately need a mummy lecture on. I go running when don't have DS but as ex is away haven't for a while - do feel better when I do....

anyway sorry Dee darling - I always feel I hijack your threat a bit - so that's enough about me, what do you think of me (tee hee). Kisses Dolly who is probably a bit depressed and needs a good kick up the arse xx

ooh and Dee - one more thing that I am going to try and do which may help - met up with the hot architect again (sadly for quick friends coffee only vs rip your clothes of sex :) who is quite good for divorce advice and he said that he wrote down how he wanted his life to be in a years time and then made three month goals accordingly. he is quite funny and said that whenever he felt like giving up he sang a line from a very bad cheesy 90's song "you have a power bigger than the pain"......anyway, I keep saying that line in my head and (see loony behaviour above) hasn't worked per se but i hold onto it when I feel like its all too much......the writing things down is a work in progress as I just don't know WHAT i want my life to be like in a years time having never had a 'life' in Oz without my DH....will let you know how that one goes...

eek I started smoking again when I was going through my divorce. At this very moment, God knows how many years later, I am battling the evil stuff. Went to yet another stop smoking clinic yesterday. pffff [weary]

anti-d's? honestly, they are stunningly good, give you back yourself (not like tranqs). I was on them during my divorce - because I had TOTALLY stopped sleeping - like, no sleep at all (lived near a church, church bells chimed each hour, half hour, quarter hour - still awake), with a toddler and a collicky baby. I would have taken heroin to get to sleep so was very grateful for the amazing anti-d's - saved my life, no question. You can take a low dose, see how it goes.

[more mummy hugs]

Morning Dee, damn your DS gets you up early!

I am not sure if your ex is deliberately wanting it all or just confused. Nice exciting new bit of stuff at home for rampant shagging and little wifey (that's you) and son else where for the family stuff.

Whatever it is he cannot have it all. Well not unless you let him. Whether deliberate or confused it is greedy and very selfish of him and it doesn't take into consideration your feelings and emotions or those of Miss USA in the slightest.

From her point of view do you think she would be happy for him to go on family 'dates' with you? Especially after he lied about a family and relationship when he first went back to shag her. No matter how loved up she is always going to have that little niggle in her mind that he did lie to her and he can lie to her plenty more in the future.

Or he can be spinning the Dee is a screaming harridan and I have to go to placate her line.

And we all know how he thinks he can treat you and expect you to still hang around

Best thing you can do is ignore, detach and then ignore and detach some more. You are doing amazingly well. You sound very strong and much more awake and aware of what he is doing now. Yes you may still have bad times and think what if and I didn't want this. You will, they are getting less and less.

You also sound like you are getting to the stage where you can honestly hug her and say thank fuck you came along and took him off my hands I deserve so much better

Whatever happens between them, protect your son and yourself from the fall out and I hope you never fall for the pathetic 'I am sorry, it was a mistake, I always loved you and wanted you and I was such a fool' I feel sure is round the corner at some stage.

Arrghhh - need to vent!

Ex due to come round to take DS for his swimming lesson* as usual. Now DS has been ill since Thursday with a very high temp - that is now down - and his sleep was off and even worse than usual, so he was in a 'grumpy' mood anyway.......DS also has a thing for shorts at the moment as most kids do at some point (not necc shorts!) and that is all he wants to wear - thing is, I was not organised enough to put washing on yesterday so we had no clean shorts! I managed to get him into some jeans but a lot of crying and fussing to do so. So.....figured I would ask ex to not come round in shorts just this once this am as if DS sees him in it, he will ask for his shorts (iyswim - ex had related that DS had done this exact same thing on the Weds night when he had him and he changed him out of his jeans and into some shorts I had packed in his nursery bag - was tipping it down and cold here). Admittedly my first text was short and brusque - 'dont come round in your shorts please', but I honestly thought he would know what I was talking about......no, instead, I got 'why?? I always wear shorts'. So I explained about DS etc and he replied 'Sorry, I am wearing my shorts. He'll be fine. We cant dance on eggshells around what DS wants'. Different thread and all, but was I in the wrong here? Probably yes, for engaging with him in the first place, I know. But it would not have killed him to have worn jeans (he really does always wear shorts - those cargo type ones) for 2 hours and the irony is he told me that he changed DS at the end of the day into a clean pair of shorts because he was crying to (this was the Weds incident at his house). And, err, DS has been ill for last day and a bit and was beyond all reasoning as expected.....I was in no way suggesting that we pander to DS but maybe I should have just kept quiet - in fact, I know I should have done....

So cue DS not wanting to go with ex - had to interrupt his beloved Tinkerbell - for which I got the blame (not surprised). Apparently DS is too clingy to me (who else has he got to be clingy to?!) though ex realises that this is something that goes on until around 3 years of age - I think he is expecting DS to snap out of this as per the books he has been reading. Though he did mention that DS never reacts this way when he picks him up from nursery - cue my fault....tried to ignore him but so much twaddle to wade through. He just wont accept that he has had any role in this - that he has actually turned DS' life upside down (ex used to work from home and he is now a part-time dad, when he is here). Even though I have refused to speak to him (bar hello, goodbye and getting DS to speak/go with him) or allow him in the house, apparently this is what is affecting DS - nevermind that DS never acted like this and I have felt a lot more tense in the past which I would have expected DS to pick up on (no arguing in front of him). Or the fact that DS has only been this extreme for the last 2 weeks...tis all my fault. Good thing is that I am now able to see through his nonsense and teflon shorts. And I do not for 1 minute believe a word that he says (which is my overall premise with him)....

Anyway, after all that, he has just sent me a photo of DS!!! Think I mentioned this (bad) habit of sending photos? I am convinced that he only sends them to me to get one back - I have not been biting...Last weekend, he sent me a photo from lunchtime - where he was in the pub with DS and new girlfriend (she was not in the photo, but he had told me they would all be doing lunch). I sent him a very clear email saying that these photos had to stop as I did not feel comfortable receiving them given it was all three of them having a jolly good old time. Of course he did not reply - and then the photo today.....

*dont get me started on why he was so insistent on the swimming lesson given the illness and high temp on Thurs/Fri. And this is the man who was emailing me links from NHS direct on how to deal with a high temp on Thurs (and who didn't have a thermometer in his house until the first time DS threw up all over him in his house a couple of months ago and I had to go and get one and drop it off at his).

Xales - today was a lie-in! Normally its 5am-ish...but have had a good tip-off about the grobag clock so will order that today and pray it works!

Agree about the whole family set-up, which he can then flip as he wants...so, yes, he can suggest to me about going to the flicks and then tell her that I have been begging him to come, or flip it another way as in 'look, I am being reasonable. I want us to be normal/moved on and she is blocking it and so upsetting DS and not putting his needs first.....'. I just really feel 'been there, got the t-shirt' at times...I also feel that his is becoming increasingly predictable, which of course makes my life easier as can be more prepared for his crap and stuff....When he first broached taking DS away for a week to CP, I gave into my emotions and said I would be very upset if, for his first break - for a week - with DS would be with new girlfriend who would only have been in the country for a few weeks based on the timelines he was suggesting, to which he replied, no, no, it would be with his parents and sister and he hadn't yet figured out what would happen with the other 'situation' (that is what he called it). Thankfully it wasn't raised again in any detail (though it does loom over me at times).

Yes those - what if's are getting less and less - something I would never have believed back in Jan. I have only made it this far due to support on here and in RL.....big mummy hugs from me to each and every person who has taken the time to help me and listened to my ranting, raving, confusion etc.

Dolly - and an extra big hug from me! oh hon, sorry he got to you along with the combination of everything else. I've been through the obvious holiday with new girlfriend thing, though can imagine its more intense/different in your case as he is still (!!) claiming there is no-one else...I dont have the words to describe how it feels when they do this and leave us in the lurch and all I can do is repeat what has been said to me - just ignore them, dont think about them on holiday and their superficial lives and focus on yourself and DS. As Xales and many, many others have said, dont give him/them the headspace.....

I agree with springy about the not telling him how you are feeling; at the best, they will twist it and the worst throw it back at you (I had this a few weeks ago when ex said that he should not be blamed for me having a bad day at work, partly true). So dont give him a chance! Though as always easier said than done.

I know where you are coming from with the perception some people in RL have of how you can just bounce back (a well meaning (I think!) neighbour was concerned the other day that I was still in the mire of this split whilst ex had told her he had moved on and was so blissfully happy - really who in real life has to go around telling this to people they barely know?! - and that I should now move on). Total crap of course, but I am sure that for every person who has voiced that you will bounce back (just like that!) will also be quaking to even imagine if they should fall victim to such circumstances. You know, I used to read rags like NoTW and Sunday Mirror etc and would look at the latest splashes of cheating celebrities and although I read the words and took it in, I dont think I ever really considered just how deeply infidelity can affect people and rock your foundations. It is mind-blowing. There but for the grace of etc etc.....no-one can ever know the depth of betrayal/hurt until they go through something similar and as I have said, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy (though ex can have a dose of it for all I care).

And, oi, you are not hijacking at all! So please, please keep posting! Sending even more hugs!

Mother - that is a sentiment I agree with every day lately....

springy - I agree about the whole looking after yourself thing (Dolly - I so want to take up running, but until Ms USA/amateur tri-athelete moves on, I dont have the confidence to pound the streets by myself, so only go with a friend. Am starting back at the gym now and have my walking challenge in Oct). I hadn't even thought about the herbal stuff - will pop down to the health shop. I too like a glass of wine in the evening, but trying to limit myself to one or two at the weekend - if only to help with the weight loss . Still got 2 dress sizes before I am fully back in old work wardrobe, but aiming for autumn/winter so can save myself a few pennies......

And Dolly - please dont forget that you are doing super-humanly extra-ordinarily well. Remember, you are in a country you would rather leave and dont have your dearest friends and family on your doorstep and you still have to put up with a cheating/lying ex. That is a lot! You are the one that is still there for your son and being a fantastic mummy!!

Take care and huge, huge hugs!

re the shorts. I had a similar experience where i asked ex not to bring BOS to ds's scout parade. ds had specifically asked that she not be there. So off I go and the place was packed apart from one row with just one woman in it. i sat down next to her, got chatting a bit, no-one else joined us. Saw ex out of the corner of my eye craning his neck at me, ignored him as per usual (thought i may be looking particularly beautiful that day...). Then said woman abruptly got up and walked out of the church, swiftly followed by ex.

IT WAS HER!!!

I still laugh about it now. They looked so stupid, those two.

taking a break from cleaning/tidying/pottering whilst DS is out with ex....not happy that he will be keeping DS in company of his new girlfriend all/most of the day, but know there is not a lot I can do about it. have spoken until I am blue in the face and get all the 'yes, agree' etc etc and then he just does what he wants....

springy - omg! what a numptey! and how brazen of her/them to turn up like that?! what a ruddy cheek...get what you mean about wanting to paint the perfect family set-up....

right - back to the tidying up (after Amazon)...

Strange or not ?

I asked ex via email last week not to send me any photos of DS when he is with him (mainly as he seems to expect one back and when I dont comply, I get verbal off him). Anyway, he sent one yesterday - I ignored it. He then sent another one today - one that he had taken yesterday. This was after sending me two text messages asking me how DS was/how his night was.

He then sent another text this evening (after ritual phone farce) asking how DS day was. I replied 'He had a good day and was fine'. He then wrote back asking for detailed info! I thought he was trying to suss out what we did for the day, so just texted back routine info about sleep/food etc, also adding that I was surprised he is showing an interest in such info as he was never bothered when I was doing sleep training when he was here or even as late as Febe/Mar this year when DS' sleep went very awray with hourly waking, me sleeping by his bed, him screaming for me - asking 'where are you mummy', me holding his hand until he fell asleep - he was not like this before ex left and I could put him to bed awake and he would go off by himself (always been an early riser though). I did tell ex about this at the time in a pique of anger that DS was going through this and got a 'sorry'.

His reponse - 'I am alway intersted in DS. I have just been thinking about im lots is all'.....

So, could this (1) genuine concern or (2) him exerting a bit on control by reminding me how much he loves DS (am being slighly sarcastic here) or (3) is he starting to see that his (ad-libbed) remark of how he has 'not lost anything as I will still see DS regulalry' is not quite as wonderous as he originally thought.....?

I am too suspicious of anything and everything he does now.....

apologies for typos! typing quickly and this blimmin' laptop doesn't pick up errors as I type for me to correct!

Here's what I think: I think that he expects to lose absolutely nothing as a result of what he's done. He doesn't expect to miss a step but to glide into bliss. He may, even, bleat that it's hard for him, he made the 'courageous' step to follow his bliss - unlike all those suckers out there who grind around life the hard way. He expects his reward for sacrificing everything. He expects the 'universe' to reward him by giving him a seamless ride. he also probably believes that he is giving everyone the best possible gift by freeing himself so they can be freed. He will demand what he wants re DS and expect to get it, will be outraged if he doesn't. entitlement overload here.

I'm concerned about ds Dee, as I'm sure you are. From all you've said, he is registering all this quite acutely. I'm wondering if you can get some added support for him?

Hi Darling

I don't really know the answer Dee darling, but it does sound like - and I think this is common with men that leave their families to pursue their passions - that he has left in order to be a better father as he will be so 'happy' but that he expects everything to be the same with his relationship with his son and despite his absence and his choice to remove himself from the family home he still wants to be invovled and know about the details of his life - but crucially on his terms. Now, taking emotion out of it, it is great that he wants to be a hands-on dad and be involved in his life. My ex is (to a lesser degree in terms of day to day detail) like this and in the world of men that just fuck off and leave their children this is obviously a good thing. But what is SO hard in this horrible new world in which we live is getting the balance right in the sense of what is the best for your DS, what is best for you and to ensure that you DS is not confused and that you aren't becoming over stressed by it. I have really struggled in making decisions relating to this as I want to ensure that I am making them to benefit my son vs 'punishing' my ex. At the start this manifested it in twice a day phone calls, legnthy texts, attempts at family outings (gruesome) as I didnt want to be acting in spite. However, for me - and everyone/situation is different - the twice a day phone calls were not working. DS didn't want to do it, it upset me, and - i will admit it - there was a bit of an element of me thinking, hang on, he's fucked off, left us in the lurch emotionally and financially and yet he still wants carte blanche to be involved - WHEN HE WANTS - to make himself feel better. I suddenly saw myself staring down the barrel of the next several years of long texts and emails and calls and realised that for me, it wasn't going to work, it so we now only do occassional calls initiated by me (if DS wants to) and if he hasn't spoken for a bit I will encourage it and call anyway. As I said to my DH, I'm sure when DS can dial himself and is a bit older he may want to call every day and I'm fine with that but at the moment it was too much interuption and too much unsettledness afterwards. We are still feeling our way but I am in the place that if i honestly believe it is the best for my son (vs being difficult for the sake of it with my ex) I will set out clearly in an email and take from there. Anyway not sure if any of that helps but it does seem like he wants a bit of a running commentary from you which I think is a bit unsustainable and actually quite unfair of him to put this burden on you on top of everything else.

I'm feeling marginally better this week - had a nice day yesterday out for dim sum with big group (ex's old school friends who he hasn't seen since all of this and most of whom I saw about a year ago when post DH leaving - a few days before his birthday - he 'made' me go out for a birthday dinner in case he changed his mind and wanted to work things through as it would look weird to his friends if i wasnt there if he did decide to come back to me....I am aware of how that reads...it was agonising but i was so desperate for us to work - and was in middle of IVF drugs - that I put on my makeup and made small talk and if i recall a toast - one of the frankly cruel things he did in the immediate crazyness) - then saw my SIL and her partner to catch up with their family which was actually nice as they were much more 'sympathetic' than the last time I saw them - although we didn't really dwell on the subject - having both been left by their previous partners themselves and i came away feeling 'good' vs the last few times when I came away feeling 'bad' IYSWIM.....I have also done something WILDLY out of character and turned my back on all of my (previously very vocal) moral thoughts on the subject (amazing what being left for a 12 year old will do) and had - ahem - embarrassed cough - please don't judge me as I'm judging myself quite badly - a bit of...errrr....injectable help in the looks department and already a lot of people have said how well I am looking and I feel loads better which kind of pisses me off that I am so shallow and have fallen into the whole cult of youth thing etc etc and really, i totally don't approve of it BUT this last year had aged me so badly and i just thought fuck it.....I think in fact that year 2 of this horrid adventure will be me saying fuck it more often......think of the places that I could go with that attitude ; )

Hi Dolly

Yum - dim sum! Sorry to hear about the birthday dinner last year - sounds like it was torture (though familiar in terms of the being desperate for things to work out). But so glad to hear that you have a lovely time this year round. Ditto for the time spent with your SIL - so glad to hear that you are feeling better .

Wow - is that botox? I'd say go for it! I am too scared of needles - did it hurt much? You shouldn't judge yourself and am sure no-one else would, and even if anyone did, what business is it of theirs! I am with you on the 'fuck it' attitude - I think I am more daring and open (in certain things) as more willing to be less sensible - within reason. I haven't had much of an opportunity to be more daring yet, but state of mind and all that....

Thanks for the advice and viewpoints. Think what you (and springy have said make sense. I do get a very strong sense that ex does not yet know the boundaries of our new 'relationship'. Maybe, I am at fault here? I have told him and continue to tell him and think I follow through.....I totally get the feeling of the calls and general texting etc being too much (esp at this stage for me - he is nicely tucked up with new girlfriend enjoying their honeymoon stage and he gets to dip in and out of our lives - and guess he will have his own life with DS. There have been times in the past, where he has not phoned at the appointed 7.30am, calls at 7.45am, by which time, I am done hovering around the phone or carrying it around with me and he phones and I get berated if I let it go to voicemail. Each and every morning, I spend time rushing to do x, y, z before 7.30am - that is my barometer for getting DS and I ready in the morning, and this is 7 days a week ). It is a fine balance between sharing information that is valid and just constantly being at his beck and call (slight exaggeration, but it feels like this sometimes. I worked out that I have to either speak or see him every 12 hours or so, with these twice a day calls or him doing nursery run in the am or pm. I dont get a moments peace from him, it feels, sometimes.....). I do agree, it is better than the other extreme of AWOL dads, which is good for DS. Very reassuring to get your insights on this - huge thanks.

Ex continuing to act weird sorry nice. I guess I should be grateful for small mercies that I/we are having a break from all the drama, though this whole experience has just made me think twice about anything that he says or does and, yep, to question any niceness. More as a guard to sniff out what he may really be after than anything else (and I suspect that this renewed photo sending and him agreeing with me that its maybe a tad unfair to give zero notice and phone me up 2 mins before I am expecting DS home to extend his time with him for another hour, is being done with his (ex's) looming absence from Wednesday. I have already said 1 call a day as DS still not talking much and I think its a bit much to be phoning here twice a day whilst he is off on a break back home with his girlfriend and his mates, so just need to stick to my guns about no photos). Anyway, just going to suck it and see.....and remain on guard for some big bit of news or 'demand'....

Still umming and ahhing about a weekend away this week. Keep thinking its no time at all to plan, but then DS and I could do with a break away from the family home (with no pressure - so maybe all these breaks that ex continues to take will be of benefit!). Thinking of a holiday park or a hotel - somewhere where we wont be too isolated. DS would love a trip to Peppa Pig World, but its almost 3 hours drive away!

Take care - and keep smiling!
dx

springy - thanks. have made an appointment with the HV (haven't seen them for ages - on reflection, I think I probably should have gone to them for advice at the outset ).

what you have said sounds familiar (even down to the 'this is hard for me as well' line). i do keep hope that he will calm down as reality of everyday life sets in and the transatlantic dream settles down - not relying on it happening anytime soon, or that it will genuinely change his attitude to me, but maybe he can start to really prioritise on DS then as that is all I really want now...

My dear, this is completely biased but my heartfelt advice is to avoid CAMHS at all costs if it is suggested. Run for your life would be my advice. Not sure if your HV would refer ds to CAMHS but do please make sure you don't touch them with a bargepole.

I should set up a CAMHS Survivors support group - I am apparently not alone.

It takes time for the ties that bind to die off. it sounds like you and ex were very close and maybe it's going to take a while to fall out of the old patterns. I agree that you running around like a mad thing first thing so you are prepped and ready for his call is a bit OTT but it looks like you're gradually falling out of that pattern.

However, I must say that the main thing that stood out for me is that you HOOVER EVERY MORNING

Respect!

[ahem] I'm a once-a-week girl, me.

Hi Darling - could you try occassionally to not answer the phone when its really not convenient and then maybe text saying sorry its not a good time for DS at the moment, lets try tomorrow and reduce the number of calls that way? Just a thought - this is what I did - as it was true DS often didnt want to stop what he was doing to talk to his Dad (who he loves seeing btw but I think as you have said that at this age it is out of sight out of mind and they just aren't interested - this will change as they get older if they continue to have a good relationship as I have pointed out to my ex)....just a thought.

Springy - golly re your scout story - funny as you say in hindsight but goodness how awful! (and v. insensitive if it was your DS who requested it)...

Dee - yes is the B word! Didn't hurt (but then I had to inject myself for IVF and a piece of cake compared to that) but effects apparently don't kick in for a week and will begin to show properly in a few days but already my divorce frown has lessened and I am looking a bit less raddled! bit hmmm about it all as technically still very much against it as a societal thing but hey, I'm breaking a lot of rules at the moment in terms of what I 'should' be doing. I only had a bit so won't be mental satellite forehead woman (I hope)....will let you know in a week ; )

In other news ex has agreed (well "do what you want it isn't worth a fight") that I can get DS christened in the UK when we are home which I am VERY happy about although will be a bit sad doing it on my own - however my new resolution is that my enforced circumstances should not stop me doing something I would have done if we were married as its not DS's fault and I don't want to 'deny' him things just because they are difficult/sad for me to do alone. In that vein Dee I say go away for the weekend - be nice for a change of scene - not having to clean/look at cleaning etc and to create nice memories - I had a great time when I went away with my son earlier this year and only a few bittersweet moments.

Lots of love, smooth faced Dolly x

springy - no way do I hoover every day (can just about do once a week!), sorry meant hovering around! As 7.30am draws nearer, I potter about doing chores that can be done in close proximity of the phone, or I take to carting it around. Right faff and decided that it will end now......will do down the route of email suggestion a la Dolly!!

Sorry, am a dunce - what is CAMHS?

Dolly - do let us know how the botox comes out in a week (will remind you). Great news about the christening* and something to look forward too (plus, a benefit is that you can plan it as you would like it). Yes, will be off this weekend!

• We were going to get DS christened in Feb and silly old me, had been thinkng it would be nice to combine a weddding at the same time (got the idea over the xmas period as a friend got hitched on NYE). Didn't get a chance to discuss with ex due to his bombshell on the 28th Dec, but shows how far off the mark I was! I can laught (a bit) now, as I remember looking at him in shock one time and saying something along the lines of 'but, I love you, I was going to suggest that we get married!' to which he replied 'why didn't you suggest that earlier?' as if that would have made an iota of difference! Just another veil of blame to lay on me (at the time).....

Lordy - have agreed to run a half-marathon next April! Went for a run today and it has near killed me! Am hoping the aching legs (already) is a good sign....

s-t-r-e-t-c-h after (and before - push a tree over) your run - makes all the difference

ah, hovering. right . well you can blinking pack in that hovering, for a start! I think you will gradually stop doing all that stuff - as I said before. It's all been so quick, after you had been together for so long and, as you said, honestly thought your wedding was imminent. It'll take a while for the old habits to die off. Don't beat yourself up though eh Dee. It's very human that these things take time.

CAMHS is erm children's mental health services (I think) or something like that. Don't. Go. There. (mother haters, to a one ). We're still battling the effects of that poisonous service.. but I'll shut up about that

Dolly, if you want some support at the christening (Dee too) we could all come as a posse. Like SATC. I'll be erm Miranda?

I seem to be running the gamut of emoticons tonight

Big hugs Dee x

Just found out that he has gone to FRANCE with girlfriend and his mates. Apparently, he never said where he was going, just that he was going to meet this friend who is back from Oz for a bit (but is from ex's hometown, so why France?!). He did say that 'Friend is coming back over from Oz etc etc'. So truth by ommission - lucky new girlfriend if she has this to look forward to...

I don't care if he is Dubai, LA or even France - just can't believe this is the person who has flown however many times to SF in last 6 months and can now afford a 4 night break in France and yet not even 2 weeks ago was pleading poverty wrt maintenance and having to dip into his bountiful savings to stay afloat (my words, but am well cheesed off!)...

Dee Darling

Am so with you on your outrage! My ex is SUPER secretive - ie he is away now for 2.5 weeks but have no idea where - he told SIL that he was working i Japan but his answer phone message says he is not at work and he finally told me he was somewhere in Australia. Totally with you thought on the money/freedom front as we are currently struggling a little whilst he has fucked of with I assume girlfriend having lovely relaxing time - Slightly hypocritically if he has wanted to take DS on hols (under our terms he can take him for 7 days until he is at school then 14 days) I would have been unhappy as have never been away from him for more than 2 nights (which in itself was horrid at start) but also a bit fucked off on DS behalf that ex wants holiday on his 'own' (read with girlfriend) and didn't think to take DS....I don't know about you Dee but having been super independent sorted modern woman I feel that with relationship breakdown it is back to the 1950's and we hold the domestic fort and our ex's have their cake and eat it as we have our children's best interests too much at heart to turn into total bitches. Anyway, none of which helps you constructively but wanted to say I understand and feel your pain. Remember you have a power bigger than your pain!!!

Springy - LOVE the idea of christening wingmen!!! but more seriously when I am back for 6 weeks if you guys are game and its geographically possible my vote is for sans children girls night out!! I will be both in London and the West Midlands and I'd love to share a bottle of champagne with the people who have kept me sane (even in hijacking a thread ; ) ......

Kisses Dee - increasingly smooth faced Dolly x