Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

What Springy is saying is spot on.

Youe Ex has reinvented himself and his new love interest only knows him in this guise. She reflects back what he wants to hear whereas you probably stand there with your jaw on the floor at the lunacy of some of his utterings.

His mantra is utter bollocks. What kind of person puts their happiness above that of all others. He lacks compassion, he lacks personality, (did he not like the personality that he already had?), empathy... the list could go on.

Please try and distance your self from him; having conversations about salaries and money is not doing you any good and I feel that once OW has landed, you are going to become more of a target for him. It won't be a bed of roses for them - life's not like how he sees it - and he'll lash out.

Think about putting distance between yourself and him. He can come and see his DS, he can make the effort. Why should you exist so that he and OW can play ready-made families when it suits them? It makes me feel uncomfortable just reading about how he is treating you, so I guess you are struggling with it yourself.

But you are strong and certainly sharper than he is, its just that he has worn you down and its hard to see past that.

He lives in that neverland that is the big earning, big living corporate world. Trust me, most of the guys in that world are full of shit and are complete wankers. Indeed, there's usually not much to them as people. Thats why they lose themselves in the world of frequent flyer gold cards, AMEX expense accounts and never being in one place long enough to conduct a relationship. Money buys thesse tossers a life. Springy is right - these companies foster a cult-like culture and you have to shape up or you're out. Your Ex is mirroring all of that shit and his new relationship is him desperately trying to convince everyone that he's scored in every way possible.

Without the trappings of a big salary - who is he?

Please make moves to get away from him.

"His mantra is utter bollocks. What kind of person puts their happiness above that of all others"

I was thinking Narcissistic Personality Disorder, actually. Esp when OP said he failes to remember comments uttered only the previous day. He's rewriting history and it is seriously unsettling. You do start to question your own sanity.

(This thread reminds me in many ways of UnlikelyAmazonian's threads about her abandonning ex)

No, I don't think NPD - I married one of those and all that Dee has said doesn't suggest he has NPD. He is certainly displaying NPD characteristics at the moment, up to his neck as he is in this shit (which he has gladly embraced and cultivated, in case anyone is tempted to pity him). I would stand corrected but I don't think it's NPD at play here.

I tend to think that he's just a useless tosser who got lucky one night away on business and is trying to keep that feeling alive. He can't believe his luck.

Its amazing what the ego boost of a young, single woman hanging on your every word can do - even make you think its OK to humiliate and destroy the mother of your own child.

His apparent career success gives him the right.

Nice.

Annie - we were not married, so ex free to do as he likes, get married to whoever (we were engaged). But, I am worried enough by this sudden marriage news to have to ask him explicitly to make sure DS is taken care of financially. I probably shouldn't have said anything as not my place, but he does not have a will in place at the moment and if he does get married in the heady rush of the first flush of love and then keels over tomorrow wouldn't the new wife just get everything automatically?! Hopefully he will go through this with a solicitor before they get hitched.....I have a feeling he wont be that much clued up about the whole spousal maintenance thing should things turn sour, but then again, I know that he is very much in the mind that this is not even a remote possibility (wonder if I should make that appointment for him?!).

I am kicking myself for even going to meet him yesterday. I will definitely stand my ground next time and if he is especially insistent, I will probably be able to guess what the next round of news will be....which will be especially hard to hear - if/when it ever gets to that point - as we were starting our fertility treatments when he left. Oh well.

Springy - yes, totally get it. My ex does think that I was very, very unhappy and worse, is saying that DS would have been very, very unhappy growing up with two unhappy parents, so he has done us all a favour by proxy of sealing his happiness. In fat, DS was very happy before this happened. I was happy (okay, I could have done with some improvements in him, us and me, but nothing that was deal-breaking and especially nothing on the 'list' he gave me before he jumped on that plane before NYE. A list that incidentally was full of all MY issues and problems. Not one thing was down to him.Think I have already said what those issues were? I cringe when I think about it, what was on it and how I ran around like a muppet over NYE week trying to book appointments with professionals who could help me resolve them. But I can see now that he was really looking for an exit and had gone to the point of just plain disliking me - he even wrote that he didn't like that I read trashy mags and indulged in the odd reality show every now and then - I used to be a broadsheet, Time and Vanity Fair type of girl and recorded Dispatches and Cutting Edge docs. I still do the higher-brow stuff, but at the end of day its sometimes nice to watch an episode or two of 'Come Dine With Me' - and he used to watch it too! Anyway, sorry, rambling again!). No, didn't know about the Fay Weldon book/scenario - will have a search on the internet...

I dont think I always feel sorry for him (or maybe I do?). Just yesterday, I didn't know how to respond. He was always so level-headed and sensible and he just seems to have gone to the other extreme now....

piedpiper4 - thanks for the kind words. I honestly dont feel that I am doing that well - was teary on and off yesterday, mostly on the finance side of what he was offering.

alldownhill - agree on the salaries. I dont know why he told me her salary (I never asked, just said he would be living in a two income household etc, but I guess even saying that is leaving me open to him saying something back....so yes, lesson learnt). I think he actually told me about the salaries as he now wants to know how much I am earning. I have given him a vague figure - not far off, as I think he is basing his contribution on my earnings? He seems to think that I am on the same salary I had before in my old job and am selling myself short as I have quite specialist technical work background and have Masters degrees etc. I didn't have a choice at the time as had to get a job pronto, and actually, this job is turning out to be better than I expected. I have to admit, if he does dig his heels in, then I am happy to go via the CSA route now just to be done with it all (am not sure he realises that he would be better to go down voluntary agreement as I believe CSA also take money from his bonuses?). Its just a complete nightmare that we are messing around with this now, with the hours ticking by before she arrives her tomorrow! And what if they get married next week and she starts shouting the odds as ex's wife?! Though he has promised to go back and run some numbers again, so here's hoping. Deep breath.....

Do you know my ex?! . He was so into his frequent flyer miles telling me how 'we' almost had enough to go to x or y, or how about I use the points and go to New York? Of course, never happened and I know I am not entitled to those points, but it sounds familiar!

The ironic thing is that his higher salary didn't afford me/family life the lap of luxury. I still drove around in my old Ford Focus, I shopped in Primark and supermarkets and sale racks - paid for by myself. Still paid into the mortgage etc. Since having DS in terms of hols, we have only been to ex's hometown to see his folks, to local Centre Parcs an hour or so away, a Centre Parcs up north and France last summer when we did a Eurocamp type holiday. Not complaining at all, as they were fun holidays and we had a good time (or at least DS and I did).

I do feel totally and utterly worn and exhausted with it all. Am also getting a lot of extra responsibility at work at the moment and am keen to impress so I can (fingers crossed) ask for flexible working sometime next year - if they keep me on!

Hoover, Sringy - not too familiar with NPD? I don't think ex was always like this - it does seem like he has been taken over. His actions and words are unfamiliar to me and joint friends and colleagues who know us/him.The most maddening thing is when he says that this is him being him and that he doesn't think he has changed from the person he was. It is upsetting when I have to explain my position by asking him how he would feel if someone was treating his new girlfriend like this or whatever circumstances are at the time. Have also had to refer to his sister and mum as mental reference points. Its like he just doesn't see or hear when it comes to me. The forgetting things is another annoyance, but am used to it now I think. I did used to go back to emails or text messages to double check myself in case I was the one incorrectly remembering something. I don't think he is faking it as he does seem like he does genuinely lose track of what he has said (which does seem worrying).

I have to admit, I have long believed what Alldownhill says. When I left my job in March 2010, he suggested that I use his savings (tens of thousands) and we move into property development and yet now he says he wasn't in love with me then and he was so very unhappy. We had fantastic dinner parties and he even went on a business trip with one good friend in November and he was apparently gushing about DS and I (she had told her husband at the time who was friends with ex and recently she told me). I don't think he was as unhappy as he says he was, though I do have to accept it as this is his truth - but, jeez, if that was me, I would have been suicidal to have been so unhappy and keeping up a false relationship for 2+ years as he now claims. New girlfriend seems besotted with him, on basis of the card she sent him that I found and also various FB postings. And the grandest gesture of her moving here to be with him. I can cope with the re-writing history thing (mainly by ignoring him), but I do intervene when it comes to DS and making out he did all this for him and his future. I can accept that he didn't love me etc, but the man had so many options to end things on a decent note - even more so as they were living in different countries so he wasn't (I am guessing) being hounded to leave so they could set up home/get married immediately etc. Ah, well, who knows. Am jaded by it all a bit now.

But, on a brighter note - have decided to create a 'single me' bucket list, so listing all the things I have ever wanted to do. Still very much a work in progress though! One of the things I have wanted to do for ages is a big long, challenging walk (a la the three peaks challenge) and amazingly have managed to find one run by a local walking group. 26 miles down the local coast! Have managed to rope in a couple of girlfriends and am quite excited by it. Another thing I really want to do is take DS camping (think we will try garden first) and also on a holiday - just the two of us. As I can now take A/L (was on probation for 3 months which meant no A/L allowed - hence my frustration with ex not taking any off with DS) will be able to book something soon - may go for a long weekend in July.....

I believed, because ex told me so during one of his re-writes, that he didn't love me. It wasn't true. I think you may be taking his re-writing of your life together too much to heart Dee - understandable to take it to heart though, in the circumstances. It isn't true though, what he's saying. He's in lala land, full to the brim with shit. Please don't take seriously the things he is saying, they aren't true.

The book Fay Weldon wrote about her marriage breakup (when his therapist told him that he and Fay were not compatible astrologically - he believed it and went off with someone else after I think 30 years of happy marriage to Fay) is called Splitting. Don't know if you've ever read her before but she can be quite brutal in the things she writes about, the way she writes, so you may have to get your hard hat on! Incidentally, he dropped dead the day their decree nisi came through.

that should be decree absolut, not decree nisi

My ex also dropped dead and died intestate. Had a hell of a job through the courts securing my kids' inheritance from wifey (widowy, to be exact). If at all possible (though not sure you can?) try to get a will in place before he marries her.

I'm also not sure that the CSA is the way to go tbh, I much prefer the courts. But, and it shouldn't be like this, the courts, run as they are by toffs of predominantly the male gender, can favour a male high flyer iyswim. It's a tricky one, entirely dependent on the judge on the day (or days in my case - protracted divorce and then protracted probate ) - I came before some good judges and some appalling judges. The CSA is seriously crap though from all I've heard?

If your Ex has significant savings and you are worried about your DS in the future - can you not create some kind of trust fund/savings account for him. I haven't got a clue how these things work, but it can be done.

If he wants to make sure his DS is OK, this is one way of doing it without handing money over to you.

Its a really good idea to get all of this sorted. Words are cheap. You need it all sorted.

New girlfriend seems besotted with him

She may well be, but hey, they've only known each other a few months... but whatever happens with them is really not your concern. Let them get on with it - he'll be promising her the earth and you already know what that means. Poor bitch - she's a fool.

What you need to focus on is that when your DS goes to stay with your EX that there is consistency of care and that you are treated with respect. You can demand this.

Whatever you do, get as much of it as a written agreement. Make sure the law is on your side.

Oh, not married, sorry, that makes a difference of course. However, it doesn't let him off his legal obligation to contribute to his child's keep. If you go through the CSA I think he will have to pay a fixed percentage of his earnings - 15% for one child, capped at 25% or something like that? I could be wrong but I don't think how much you earn makes a difference. Nor does it make a difference whether he can be arsed to see them.

Agree with Annie, what you earn doesn't make a difference to how much he has to contribute. You have no reason to disclose your salary unless part of court dealings

HOWEVER

If he gets wind of the fact that he has to pay you a set amount of his money and that this is reduced by the number of nights he has DS be prepared for him to argue for more nights to reduce the amount he pays you.

ALSO

If they start popping out babies (or should that be when) your maintenance could be reduced. I wonder if she is already up the duff, hence part of the urgency to get married. I also wonder how many years before his story will be she 'trapped' him this way........

As he is on a decent salary (and so is she) you may be able to get permission to stay in the house until your son is older and not be forced to sell if your ex gets arsey. It hasn't affected him getting another place to live so far.

Wouldn't a will before they get married be invalid on the marriage? He would have to make on after.

Only other thing that concerns me is if they get married, have a few kids, she wants to move back home and he decides to take your son. Do you actually have legal status as the resident parent or have not done that yet? If he takes him and you are just equal parents with PR it will be much harder to get him back. Be careful with his passort and get residency sorted!

Xales - hadn't thought about the possibility that he could take DS to US. I have of course always thought that this was a surefire possibility, esp when they start having kids (I also dont think it will be if - though ex is very, very hung up about sex and on Friday was bemoaning again how sex was so very important to him and how ours had dwindled and we only seemed to do it to get pregnant! The man was not deprived - he just wanted more (and more exciting/fresh/new experiences I guess?). So I reckon he will be keen not to have babies just yet as for him, that would be the death knell for their amazing life of endless sex, lie-ins and nights out and he would be back in the same position he was with me. But of course, that may not stop her......). I am also of the mind that she could indeed be pregnant now and is maybe keeping it quiet and then he will announce it and excuse his silence away as they were waiting for the 12 week scan/waiting for the right time etc. Though I did ask him if she was pregnant on Monday (via text) due to his dodgy movements and thats when he said she wasn't but that she was coming over....of course, once a liar and all that.

The whole temp visa thing is well dodgy - she has gone from knowing she was absolutely moving her from NYE to now reaching their milestone July and she is here on a temp visa? She is doing an internal job transfer to a job - she is not here to bleed the system or apply for any old job. I suspect that there was a hold up with the visa (why?), she had expired her lease on her apartment (ex has been going on about how it expired on the 1st July) and was just so eager to get here and be with her man that she couldn't wait for regular visa? Have no idea how it all works to be honest. Can she be granted a proper visa if she is here on a temp one or does she need to go back? Maybe she is testing the water out with the temp visa story and ex is so naive he believes every word....But then I dont like to think that anyone - esp her - can be so nasty, more as she will be in contact with DS, so trying not to see her as a conniving witch type.

Good point about the will - will make sure he checks.

I have just been saying that I am the main resident parent and he is the NRP. He seems fine with this, but yes, maybe need to get this written down by solicitor now, esp as he is loved-up phase so more likely to be okay with this and also whilst he is still banging on about how she knows DS is his priority and thats why she is here. Surely he cant argue with that. I would hope that he couldn't just take him out of the country like that? I have DS' passport........

I think he is well sussed on the payment thing as he has already told me, that as DS will be with him for 150-odd days 'at least' he has child associated costs as well. I just hate the way he can pick and choose when he wants to play the doting dad. He can go away on holiday for umpteen days several times this year already, but he loves his son so much that he leaves him in childcare all day, every day from 8am to 5.30pm M-F (and he works from home and there have been plenty of times in the past when he has finished work early to go to the gym or play squash with a work colleague).

Annie - that was my thinking too, but he was going on about total transparency...but I only know his salary from when we were together (and he knew my full salary from old job) and he volunteered up info on new girlfriend's salary and this is the second time he has told me! The first time was back when I was looking for a job in Feb and he half-joked that if I earnt 40k he would come back to me (sorry may be repeating this again)! I said what do you mean and he said that was what she was earning (when translated from dollars to sterling). And funnily enough this has now gone down to 35k (dont keep track of the stock market to know if its truly currency flux and dont care enough to check), which he says 'is hardly a huge wage by London standards' when trying to wheedle out of his financial support. But am sure it will all be my fault that he now has to subsidise her more than he expected and now has less income etc etc.

Reading this back, I realise that I am far too entwined in the drama of ex and new girlfriend. Time to enforce the cold detachment thing, else he'll be telling me next that she is having a tough time settling in and its not easy for her etc etc....

Alldownhill - thanks for the advice. I have been running around like an idiot trying to sort things out in the last few days as I am just convinced beyond convincing that as she is here, ex will truly be off with the fairies. He phoned this morning to give me run-down of sons night/morning (he forgot to do so when handing over - have asked that he just text or email in future) and I reminded him about getting his will sorted to cover DS to which he said something along the lines of yes, he would and that he had explained it all and my concerns to new girlfriend and that she completely understood my position...is it just me, or is that a bit creepy? Firstly, why did he have to tell her (all my comms to him on this, bar Friday meeting, has been via email so she hasn't been here) and secondly is that a strange reaction? Maybe not? I have sent an email with certain ground-rules and he has agreed to them (e.g. she is not to pick him up or drop him off at nursery, when DS is with him, ex actually spends time with him and does not leave DS in her company alone etc).

I welcome any approach for him to make sure DS is financially secure as he has told me again this morning that he really does know her as much as I may find that hard to believe....

Springy - will get that book. Fancy a bit of hardcore literature after the fluffy last novel I read! Sorry to hear about your ex and the problems with courts...absolutely chills me to my bones that this new woman could walk off with everything and DS would be beholden to her 'niceness'......am going to make appointment to see solicitor (again!) this week.

Hmmm - I find it so hard to ever believe that he ever loved me at all. He was so quick to dump me for someone he had spent 7 nights with and so ignorant of my feelings in all of this. And despite my telling him to not give me the regret lines, he does it again yesterday in an email that was about dividing up belongings in the house (another tick on my list of things to agree before Ms San Fran gets her feet well and truly under the table). 'Everyday I feel regret over the actions I've taken and the impact this has had on our continued friendship. I really do hope that one day we can become friends again.'....sent on the eve of his soulmate arriving and the day after he told me that he was going to be marrying her. Total head-fuckery......I did not respond back.

Just to say - sorry for the volume and detail of posts. Feel like my head is imploding sometimes.....

Wonder if he would ever treat 'friends' the way he has you and your DS

He's a piece of -poo- work, isn't he?

He can't take ds out of the country without your express permission - it's the reason Dolly is stuck down under, remember [hug to Dolly]. I would be careful with ds's passport though and would not let ds go to the states for a visit until he's well into his teens. Can't be too careful I'm afraid - I had all this.

What I don't like is how he's trying to make everything pally-pally, including her in the discussions you're having between you, telling you about it, as though you're a 3-way relationship, all friends; then making you out to be unreasonable because you have no intention of being 'friends', with either him or (definitely not) her. Even telling you that you're 'stuck in the anger phase' - or whatever shit he said. He still talks as though he owns you Dee, as though he has every right to make personal comments about you, issue directives etc. He's acting like he's your dad, your keeper. He isn't - and I hope he never was. I wish you could get out from under his nose because it's all getting a bit incestuous (he's probably lapping it up )

You know how people who get famous or rich (or both) become monsters? I think it's in all of us to be revolting, but not many of us get the chance. imo a similar thing has happened to him re his 'base nature' (for want of a better phrase) has got the upper hand, and he's unrecognisable, not the man he was. I do believe he's been brainwashed by this management/corporate shit he's taken to like a religion. Again, don't feel sorry for him - it appealed to something in him, he did it, his responsibility. I don't know him, or you, or your relationship but imo he must've loved you, you were together for 11 years, an ordinary relationship going through its normal stages, and now he's hijacked, off on some fanciful, alarming, harmful nonsense. If it's any consolation (probably not!), my ex had a very similar dynamic going on with his BOS. Get away from them Dee. The shit they come out with is so extraordinary you have to get a sling to keep your mouth shut. Get away from them! What they come out with is unbelievably unsettling, what they try to pull of (and sometimes succeed because they're so quick off the mark ), the pure cheek of it, the nonexistent boundaries, treading all over your life. The pair of them were like Bonnie and Clyde. someone said upthread that you will be more of a target when she arrives because it's vital to them that the whole fabricated edifice succeeds, doesn't come crashing down - they will use you to spin round.

I realise I'm sounding completely nutty however . I'm sure you'll get the legal stuff sorted pronto, will find out where you stand. You can take a step back from this drama y'know Dee - just because he/they are in a spin doesn't mean you have to get caught up in the quickened pace.

BIG hug, keep going.

oh and btw, her salary has no bearing at all on the maintenance he will have to pay you - or the settlement. I'd seriously consider going for a settlement so he can't muck you about in the future. I hope your lawyer is a bulldog-type. I know I had a dilemma with who to choose to represent me: a woman (soothing for me) or a testosterone-driven man (get the bastard by the balls, and twist).

Springy - met a RL friend, who knows ex well and was the person who more or less sat with me from 1st Jan until....well, cant remember, she was always there for support/help and as a sounding board. She said the same thing about creating a cosy set-up with us all three as friends. Not for me I'm afraid. It just pisses me off that he is off discussing who knows what with new girlfriend and forcing her into our discussions by proxy. I am really tired of hearing 'New girlfriend totally agrees with you', 'you and new girlfriend are on the same page' etc. Am so not looking forward to Weds when ex will no doubt recount how new girlfriend is fantastic with DS and how DS has warmed to her etc (of course, do not ever want DS to be unhappy with his dad and his new partner. And DS has to like her due to their set-up and huge sacrifices to be together).

Yes, getting to see lawyer quickly - and will check out a formal settlement and also being legally recognised as the main resident parent.

I would like to move away - partly to escape ex but also because, really, I only stuck around here for work and in the end for ex's work. Now, I have to take a long hard look and figure out what I want for me and DS....scary and exciting at the same time.....I am starting to looking into additional re-training and extending contacts in certain cities (old Uni city and home town). Again, exciting to think about the possibilities but daunting at times.....

No - dont think you sound nutty at all! In this living nightmare, it is hard to remain sane and most definitely, I have not shared on this thread or in real life some of the awful things ex has said to me (some left on my voicemail - kept for posterity) and emailed/texted to me. Truly crappy stuff that even I struggle to believe that the 'nice-guy' ex came out with. I do think he is completely changed, totally out of character which may account for some of his hazy recollections of what he has/hasn't said....who knows.

He has been quite good on the split in the house contents (big surprise) which is a good thing and one less headache.

I do try and think that he doesn't mean all the stuff he says about being unhappy or having regrets spanning x number of years (I asked him not to tell me what those regrets where when we spoke on Friday as just cant stand it and not interested anymore). I think the hardest thing has been the double whammy of being unhappy for such and such a time and then some of the things he has come out with in the last 6 months. All just added up to too much for me - at the moment at least. I look back on all those work trips he did for years and question myself (though RL friends say that they dont think he did make a habit of this); I look at old photos and mementos I have kept over the years and think 'were you unhappy?'....well, used to. I dont look at them anymore and have filed most away (bar the couple I ripped up in the beginning) for DS in case he wants them for the future. Thats one of the hardest things about an affair, is thinking - what was real and what wasn't. And then there is the fact that whatever the then OW had, it was pretty awesome enough for him to ditch -us me after spending just 7 nights in her bed. Knocks the confidence a bit....BUT, yep, am starting to see that it was nothing to do with me in terms of the way he ended it - all his choices (and gosh, he had so many!). Anyway, I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and day by day I reconcile myself more to the fact that my life is - and will be - better without him.

Finally - I do not want to be friends with him at all - not now. I don't think he realises the damage he has done. I firmly believe ex was looking for an exit and this was his exit affair, for who knows what reason (aside from the biggie fallen out of love thing).... But saying he was unhappy for x number of years and justifying away his actions - not nice (think I said latest was 10 years, which funnily enough came right after his announcement that he would be getting hitched to someone he hasn't even known for 10 months yet....but, hey, maybe he is thinking that the long-term relationship before getting engaged is the wrong way to play things, so may as well do the opposite. Though, of course, he did first ask me to marry him after a very short period...and yes, he promised me the stars and the moon as I come to think of it. Nothing was ever too much for him and he loved telling me how all his mates/work colleagues were jealous of him (slight exaggeration on his part I think, and of course, I made the mistake of clinging onto my baby fat long after DS popped out). The only gratification I would get from being friends - long way down the line - is that to get to that point would mean that I am totally over ex, not affected by him, and have found my own true love/soulmate whom I would never have found being 'stuck' with an unhappy ex.....does that sound mean?!

I used to torture myself thinking that ex could not possibly be more happy now than he was before as he just didn't/doesn't act happy and funnily enough for someone so happy in love, he didn't seem that fussed about my being happy. That was when the idea of being friends with him, really took hold and I got sucked into feeling sorry for him as he told me about his regrets etc (yawn). I understand now that a lot of that would have come from his possibly feeling guilt whilst in my presence etc.

Today has been quite pleasant - not had time to really think about him and was very bare bones during handover this evening. Very nice!

I wish I had some more time to write, but I do have to say that your posts are becoming so much stronger, you are getting there and you are closer to unzipping yourself from this man. He's determined to keep you at close quarters but as his mind seems to have gone AWOL, you are realising that you have the power to make decisions and if he doesn't like it - tough.

He's got it coming, but you won't be around to see that. Keep working to distance yourself and focus your energies on being the best Mum in the world. No one can take that away from you and it is actually the thing which will give you the strength to cut this man out of your life. He's been a leech for too long. Get a solicitor to clarify all his promises, start planning your escape and you will find that good things start to happen and you will find out who you are again.

Darling

Dropping in to say please don't feel you are alone in puzzling over the way that your ex can say that he had never been happy/not been happy for years despite evidence to the contrary. It is a well worn path for most people who have left their families and blown apart ex partners worlds. Of course they have to re-write history to this end. Otherwise how could they justify such a life changing action. So it always becomes 'i was NEVER happy', 'We were NEVER right', 'I was suffering and had to leave for the sake of my children's happiness' as this is the only way to frame such action. The more banal truth of the fact which is usually that they were in love and they were happy, then the reality of life with young children hit, a shifting dynamic with earning and working, decreased libido due to sleepless nights and kids made it all a bit hundrum then along comes someone who appear to really listen and value and make me feel special and oh they are great in bed too and this life seems a bit more fun, doesn't really cut it does it with family and friends let along themselves so the story has to be one of poor chap escaping from a life of abject misery in order to be a good father and true to himself after sacrificing so much. I have heard this from my ex and from countless other dumped woman. I know that he did love me at one point, was crazy about me, we had amazing times. what I don't know is when this changed for him and why for the love of everything that is holy he didn't open his mouth and say he was unhappy and try and fix this. I now know I will never know this. He has changed the story of our life and i will never know what was real and what was nice. But you are too smart darling to have not realised that things were shit from the outset so pound to a penny you had a wonderful relationship at one point. Also try and stop thinking about what you could have done. Lets face it we could all be nicer, more understanding, less naggy at times but the truth is that people stay married or with their partner because they want to and ours just didn't want to try and fix things. I also had an interesting perspective on things a week or so back when talking with a friend (hot architect of past) how to be a better date. He asked why I would want to be anyone other than myself and I replied that being myself hadn't worked out very well so far, which he flipped to say you should think of it this way - being yourself has probably saved you from years in an increasingly unhappy marriage with someone that did not value your true self. I think of this often when I am (as I am a lot at the moment) very down on myself as the architect (no pun intended) of my own downfall.

I'm OK at the moment (thanks for the hug Springdaffs) although ex has surpassed himself in terms of sanctimonius lecturing of late. I had asked him to reconsider us moving back to the UK - not so much that I thought he would reconsider but more to try and force him to walk in my shoes for a moment - and got the most annoying patronising email back about how he felt it would be better for me to focus on the postives in my life and try and establish a new foundation for our son in Australia rather than wasting energy being homesick and missing my family and friends. oh and saying no he couldn't babysit for the 12th consecutive time of me asking (taking away any opp for me to try and see friends and establish a life here - no he didn't see the irony) as he incapable of arranging his 'social' life to accomodate. Arse. I am seriously fucked off as he said he would babysit on Saturday so I could go to a babyshower (the only time he has said yes in 9 months) and now says he didn't say that as he is away - and and then is away for three weeks on mystery holiday which he expects me to cover with no real notice. VENT - and breathe.

Anyway, that is me. Have another date with not that exciting ex of TV person tomorrow - doesn't have legs but at least getting to place where he has told me all I read in the newspapers so don't have to worry about revealing I know more than I do (thank fuck for that has been like being in carry on film!) and had a few coffees with the lovely hot architect who sadly is dating someone else but am hoping that I will soon not fancy him like mad and he will turn into regular friend (of course when I see him I pretend he is regular friend when I really want to fling myself at him). Gosh all of that sounds like I am glamorous dating person about town when reality is I spend most of my time looking at bills wearing tracksuit pants and ugg boots and worrying.

Anyway gorgeous Dee - stay strong, minimise contact (as one who does not take own advice and spent an hour arguing with ex on phone today - having not spoken to him for months and was in much better place because of it) and good luck.

Take care sweets - Dolly x

sorry v v quick post as out the door on nursery run (will reply properly later on - more hugs to you dolly!): i sent ex an email outlining routine for the week and asked him if/where he was going to do introductions to new girlfriend today as he told me he was going to do as he didn't see the point in delaying it and delaying it was only for my feelings (umm, yeah, so thanks for that kick). in said email i did state that i was against this early meeting and felt it was all a bit rushed (she arrived here on sunday!), but i cannot stop him and did not want him sneaking around and lying (esp due to close proximity of our houses). He then wrote a very over friendly email, saying that we could talk about how to best approach things and how to plan out the next few weeks so I would feel comfortable...

is he playing me? how come he can now suddenly play nice, yet what 3 or so weeks ago I was sat in a cafe crying about this blessed introduction (bit emotional) and he more or less told me that i had to put up or shut up?! the new me is thinking that he is planning on either (1) an announcement or (2) to ask me something incredulous (e.g. can they take ds on holiday somewhere next week?). Even on Friday after his wedding news, he was adamant that their meeting would go ahead this week....Never mind that from the very beginning on her fleeting trips here he has wanted to introduce DS to her (as early as Feb and over my birthday weekend).....

i feel bad for thinking so negatively, but something doesn't read right here....

Darling

In a word yes he is although he may not even realise it. He wants to be the 'reasonable' one who is trying his best and is trying to paint you as the 'unreasonable' one to justify his actions. Easy to say but try not to waste energy on second guessing him. To date he has done as he pleases and will continue to. There may be something else behind it it may just be that he wants to remember this meeting as something he tried his best to make sure you are happy with. Bullshit of course but par for the course. Just try and do the best for your son in the circumstances and secondly what is best for you and they will have to fit in behind. Kisses. Remember the place you will go honey x

This thread just surpasses itself - what great posts.

Don't feel bad Dee, go with your gut feeling, it is not failing you. xxx

I saw a GP once who, when I told him about ex, said: "GET AWAY FROM HIM". i said it wouldn't be easy, kids and all, but he just repeated "GET AWAY FROM HIM, get as far away as you can". I have not forgotten it, it was sage advice (that was his name, Dr Sage) and I'm passing it on to you.