Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
I
Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Wow, what a fab poem - brilliant, painful to read, but hopeful.

I think we all heart you Dolly

Dee hope you are ok, please come back soon and dont feel you cant post.

Hope you are ok Dolly.

Thanks Springdaffs...how funny you should say that as nickname steps from car I drove when at university in the US that had a sticker on it that says honk if you heart Dolly!

Romney, doing a bit better although in a bit of a decline as its DS's Kindy social fundraiser next week and we are the only single parent family there . where I currently am is very affluent and SAHM land so I feel a bit conspicuous. Most likely in my own head but it is tough and a road I didn't think I would travel down.....on the more interesting side had a coffee date with someone yesterday and going to film festival screening with them at w/end.....don't think there is huge spark there (from my side) but its all good practice and given I literally barely know anyone in Sydney always good to meet new people and he is at least normal(ish) - I think....That said am in slighly sitcom land as he had an unusual first name and told me his profession and so I (wish I hadn't) googled him - turns out he was married to someone a little in the public eye over here and when their marriage ended it was in the newspapers etc and had some detail about his/their life - am now finding it hard to remember what he has told me (his story so far more or less tallies but he hasn't mentioned her actual name or exact profession) vs. what I read in newspaper...will let you know if I slip up and expose myself as google snoop!

Hope you are doing well Dee xx

oh Dolly, you do make me laugh! You'll just have to not mention it and let him do all the talking - though tbh you've got to check people out eh? Did he come off well in the papers, or what? [eek]

I also heart the other Dolly, as well as you

Sorry - been a bit absent of late. Got the news this evening I have been pretty much dreading, but knew was coming. New girlfriend is arriving on Sunday to live here perm with ex (I guessed something was up with an 'event' ex is planning and asked him, lord knows how long he has know, though he says he has only known since the weekend (so what about her stuff then?). He is now asking for DS to meet her next week, either Mon or Weds, so either the day after she arrives or 2 days later. On the one hand, I know that I am one of the 'lucky' ones in that I am being given advance notice and by law he can do what he wants, but cant help feeling so empty and numb. If they are each others true love and will be together forever, whats the rush?!

I am now debating whether to go and meet her - by sitting afar in the play centre, out of sight, with a friend for support. But not sure this is a good idea - not sure I am 'there' yet and ex has given a raft of rules, top of which is that I am not to react to her and under no condition can I speak to her. So will see....may be something more relevant when DS goes back to spending nights with them? On the other hand, I just know that when we first meet it will be somewhere awkward like the supermarket. I see ex's car driving around here all the time (and he still has the nerve to wave at me). Can feel my stomach churning already....It was one thing not seeing DS when he went to his dads, but how the hell do I cope now? Knowing that I am packing him off to play happy families? I love him so much (DS that is) and know I am over-protective, but I just feel so uneasy with the whole situation. I know that ex loves DS and would not let him come to harm, but ex is so, so distracted with new relationship (think this will be a 1000 times worse once she is here)......

I feel like I have had a huge shock today - yes, it was always expected, but, jeez, this Sunday?!

Dolly - happy belated birthday! Lovely poem - how are things with new man?

Dx

Hi Romney - how are things? Hope all is well and ex is behaving himself??

Hi Dee

Gosh I feel for you I really do and I'm not even sure of the right advice to give to you. I know that this day will be coming for me soon (even though ex maintains there is no-one despite fairly concrete proof from bank statements and friends to the contrary) and I have gone through how and what I would want to do when it does happen. On the one hand I cannot imagine - as is the case with some acquaintances - my DS spending weekends with someone I had not met who will possibly become (sorry to say it) a regular player and infuencer in his life. On the other hand it is hard to imagine a meeting at this point that would benefit both myself and the situation as it all still so raw I am not sure that I would be able to be gracious. One thing is for sure, if you meet the OW and are unable to take the moral high ground (soooo hard I know) it will play into your ex's and no doubt her perceived truth that you are somehow the unstable unreasonable 'nutty' ex. This will not be helpful to anyone. On the other hand not meeting her may fuel your fears and lead you to quiz your DS about her which again isn't helpful. God its caught between a rock and a hard place isn't it darling. I hope someone with experience of this will come along and give you better advice. I think that being in the background of a meeting observing will be awkward all round, will lead her to act unaturally and may confuse your lovely DS. It is so hard though isn't it this path and so hard to know what the right thing to do for your DS and for you. Probably on balance you may need to set out what you believe is acceptable for your ex in terms and rely on him to implement them in the best interests of your on. Sorry, just re read and I'm not really saying anythign am I which just shows what a dilema it is.

I'm a bit bleak at the moment as ex just announced he is off travelling / holidays overseas for three weeks (with 2 weeks notice) so assuming I can cover his weekends whilst sucking up the fact I can barely afford to put petrol in the car to go to the end of the street. I am overwhelmed at the moment with the financial responsibility and spending fairly lonely w/ends alone with my son.

Dates with google man didn't really pan out - he was nice enough but no real connection and compared to even me too many issues with ex - kind of fun but depressing in the realisation that it will probably be yonks before I meet anyone that I have an effortless connection with. I persevered for a few dates as he was very good looking (how shallow am I?) but then kind of let in wane although he still occassionally texts. Also in a bit of a decline as had coffee with the hot architect (just friends) and he was irritatingly attractive and gorgeous. hey ho, at least they are out there.

Lots of love Dee and glad you are back - will be thinking of you and interested in finding out how you handle it for my learnings.

Take care of yourself Dee and don't feel bad if you have really sad or really angry days. You are entitled to. Stay strong /hugs

Nice to see you back Dee, I remember when my exH (childrens dad) wanted my two to meet OW, I can remember that sick feeling that they would be playing happy families and I was a single parent. Horrible situation, im sorry. Your doing so well, dont go and watch them it will tear you apart. You are a strong lady and think of this as yet another hurdle you have to get over, its bloody hard, but you will again take it in your stride like you have all the over sh*t he has put on you. Thinking of you

Dolly - so sorry your dates didnt go well and I think it will be a long time before I find someone I make that effortless connection with, I had a date a few weeks ago and am planning on meeting him again but in reality I found him a little boring but thought I should give it another date before I make that assumption. Stay strong Dolly, you sound a wonderful lady.

I had a really bad week last week as it was a year since I found out about his affair and him leaving to be with OW. I also found out he is moving and is going to live our retirement dreams in another county by the sea with his much younger OW (suppose she it his girlfriend now). It was such a shock that he would do that, I suppose it shows how little he thinks about my feelings and shows just how selfish he is.

Anyway onwards and upwards, I will survive and all that jazz.

"and ex has given a raft of rules, top of which is that I am not to react to her and under no condition can I speak to her."

what??? WHAT??!! is he your dad?!? he can fuck right off. If you want to speak to her you will. If you want to tell her that she's an idiot tart you will, if you want to 'react' to her, you will. Do what you like girl, he can go fuck himself. He can fuck himself. Wanker.

Make sure you do what you like, what you want, Dee. At what point did he make these 'raft of rules' anyway? Please, please, do not put yourself in the position where he can talk to you - certainly not in a position where he can expound at length, issuing fucking edicts.

He can FUCK himself

BIG hugs ((())). I drew a picture of a lion tonight (long story) with RARRRR coming out of its mouth. Have a go at that Dee xxxx

I've been lurking Dee and have to say your story is very moving. You're amazing.

I felt I had to post today as I was also caught with the phrase "he has a raft of rules" and I felt that this was very controlling behaviour from him.

It's really none of his business how and what you do now. He really has no say in your thoughts or actions or words. He has no rights to you.

If you want to think of this OW as childcare and look at her through those eyes, it might make things easier. Call her the nanny if you like. Looks like she'll be doing most of the 'babysitting' anyway if all your X did was play with your DS. And you gotta wonder how long that will last, especially as your DS is a poor sleeper!

Sending you strength, stay cool and detached, and just do whatever suits you and your DS. You are the boss of you.

Romney - sorry to hear that this is the week of your ex leaving. So, so hard - keep strong. Ditto about him moving and living out what was your joint retirement dreams. I certainly hope he has stopped the remarks about still loving you etc? My counsellor advised me to tell my ex to take his remarks (they were getting more extreme - along the lines of how he thinks about his decision every day, how he thinks of me/us often/every day, he has deep regrets, he missed me, blah, blah, whilst all the way along carrying on with Ms San Fran). They were really messing with my head and to be honest, I dont think he really meant any of it. I just think more and more that he is just a scared, lonely man (though, he may well not be, could all be an act and he goes home each night very, very happy! Who knows! Dont think I care anymore) and thank god that he is no longer my problem........

Dolly - sorry to hear that your ex is also taking the pee (what is it with them, eh?). My ex did that several times.....last time being end of May when he went away for 11 nights to - surprise, surprise, SF for work and holiday added on....and he still hasn't taken one days annual leave to spend with son, or suggested taking him out of nursery early one day.....I took my first days leave on Friday! Was lovely fun - been a long old three months, but was great to have the Fri and Sat with him! Sorry to hear about the tough financial circumstances and solo parenting...not fun at all . Ditto about the dating....but yep, good to know that there are men out there - maybe I should move to Oz?! Not much round these parts....agree out the meeting OW/gf and not being able to take the moral high ground just yet....do you think your ex will confess to at least a new woman (who was probably OW as you suspect)? Why is he still in denial? Sometimes I just dont get the mind of some people who cheat....some resolve to tell the truth from some point onwards, whereas with others its like once the lies start they just cant stop and actually believe what they say.....despite evidence to the contrary...

Springy - I agree. He seems to have built up some scenario in his head that I will attack her! Amazing, as I have not even touched a hair on his fair (and balding) head. I have had ample opportunity to pack up his clothes that he kindly left in my wardrobes and take them down to the charity shop (or chop them up), but , no, they still sit in their black bin bags in the garage. Ditto his bedside cabinet is full of stuff - bank statements, bank cards he doesnt us, personal items. They are just there. The 'worse' I have done is tear up a few photos of the two of us (which he rescued from the bin and told me the other day he still has the pieces - wtf? Dont think Ms San Fran will be happy to find that), oh and accidentally scratch his hand after catching him phoning her from the house back in Jan when I tried to grab the phone (for which she threatened to call the police on me..... ). Someone said early on this thread (I think it was you!) that this would all be a big drama that ex is going to play out........I did wonder if the 'no speaking to her' thing was due to ex maybe spinning her some lies about me/us? I do not think she is an innocent party here, but the cold hard truth is that ex is the one who has been privvy to all sides of the stories. He certainly isn't going around telling anyone round here about the background to his fantastic new relationship (I should remind him of this when he next says that he regrets all of last year or whatever he goes on about). I try not to talk to him (as dont want to say anything in front of DS) - the stuff he said was actually what he wrote in an email.

Am thinking more that I dont really want to meet the new girlfriend just yet (romney - agree, its v weird writing that!). I am forever worried about DS and his interaction with her for all sorts of reasons (no one knows anything about her, bar what ex says and even that is only based on what she has shown him; or how she gets on with kids in general as ex doesn't seem to know - just says she is 'nice'; fact that she can enter into an affair (as far as I am aware, she did know that ex was still in a relationship by the time he went back for his second work trip early Dec 10). I guess it would make more sense to meet her when DS is getting ready to stay over? Bit of distance and all that?

Though as I have said, ex lives close by (close enough to drag a big freestandinng BBQ round to his house on Monday in the street), so I think it is inevitable that we will all bump into each other or I will see them in his car/walking around...time for me to make some tough decisions as I really dont want to be hanging around here whilst they play happy step families/cosy couples. Hmmmmm....

Dorje - thanks for the supportive words. A RL friend said the same thing as you and Springy about controlling behaviour. Its also something I am exploring in my counselling in terms of why I accepted this type of behaviour, so looking more at me that discussing his issues with control. I need to break this cycle as I am in a much better position financially now with a job. Am looking into the Freedom Programme that has been mentioned before here and on lone parents board.....Honestly, I take such inspiration from the words here (and on other threads) - it gives me the strength to carry on and see through another hour, day, week, month etc etc......DS is still up at the crack of dawn (i.e. 5.30am). Ex does seem to think that putting him to bed later will result in him waking up later, despite my saying otherwise....though DS has had a lie in the last few Saturdays I have had him (as in up at 7am!)!!

Dee, I have followed your posts on and off and am pleased to see that you are steadily growing away from that monster of a man.

He has now power over you. He does not decide whether you see/meet/talk to his yankee doodle totty or not. Does he get a kick out of thinking of the two of you together? It feels like a set up; like he's wanting to watch how you react, but control it so that the truth never actually comes out.

But hang on in there. Their relationship has been conducted in the bubble of airport lounges, romantic holidays, expense accounts, snatched phonecalls etc... etc... so it doesn't have a lot going for it when it actually comes to living together. The whole thing of actually living together - smelly socks, not enough milk in the fridge, a crying child, the minute-by-minute demands of a child, the getting up and going out to work day after day... the realities of life are harsh and I think that their relationship has not even crossed the threshold of those issues. It could be an interesting spectator sport though.

It certainly appears that he has painted a negative picture of you to her and it sounds as though she has zero sympathy for you. I don't think that she will particularly want to meet you - after all, what if this woman he has told her about doesn't actually exist? What if she found out that you were actually very normal, and very nice and that he had been a complete bastard to you? That would undermine the very basis of them getting together. It would mean that he was a liar. Oops!

Don't feel that you have to meet her at all, you may never need to. He doesn't get to decide anyway.

Whatever is going on in his head is anyone's guess, but you can use your knowledge of his dick-head behaviour to be one step ahead of him. Screw his 'rules' - what does he think he's running here? A rehabilitation unit? Ok, you are certainly working your way out of his life, but doing it with his rules is only leading one way. Turn your back on his demands and make decisions about what you want to do. Don't let him browbeat you - he's only a ordinary bloke whose ego has given him permission to behave like a bastard. He's not special and he doesn't have any right to treat you like this.

no not now

Great advice here Dee.

He certainly is keeping you on the boil isn't he - for purely selfish reasons I'm sorry to say. Moved to just around the corner, keeps you simmering by drip-feeding you titbits about how he may be regretting leaving the relationship etc - he's like a kid who leaves home and phones home every night.

I also wonder if the drama of the break with you is a huge part of their relationship ie he probably went howling to her - poor, poor me, look what I@ve had to put up with - and its become part of their relationship, or 'you' have (though it's not 'you', it's a figment of his thumb-sucking selfishness).

As you know I wonder if it was the new agey stuff he had been reading that kind of broke down his responsibilities (or gave him the permission to break them down) and kind of encouraged a sort of anarchy (grammar not very good tonight ) re who doesn't meet people we find attractive? I certainly do, all the time. But if we're in a committed relationship we (generally) don't go there.

Not that I want you to feel sorry for him mind - he has behaved abominably, has been truly revolting on every count. don't forget that.

He has told me today that he will be marrying her in the next few months after she arrives here. She is having problems with her visa and they were planning on getting married 'anyway' next year, so its just a case of bringing it forward. So guess sssnowflakes was right.....

I am starting to feel very sorry for him now. I dont know why. He has spent around 30-something days physically in her company since Oct 2010, rest of the relationship has been via skype, messenger, email, phone etc. They have not spent more than 11 or so nights in a row together. How can family and real friends not question this a teeny little bit? I am still trying to work out what this means for DS...not really sure. A bit shocked really. I have asked him to please take financial care of DS and wished him 'luck'......I am waiting with bated breath for the news that she is pregnant next....

Oh and she will be working from home a few days a week - to avoid that daily commute. Great for me, as more chance to bump into her/them during the day if I pop out of the office (the idea of her going to London every day at least meant less chance to see her). I didn't ask - well, I said that I didn't want him to drag DS up and down the streets to train stations for pick-ups to which he replied that they needed to work out how to do that and it wouldn't be an every day thing anyway as she will be wfh......

Hmmm....think I need a drink.

Forgot to say, I also got the 'I have regrets about some things in our relationship from 10 years ago' (ad-libbed) line.....I knew that would come out. He has skipped from the previous limit of 2 years unhappy to now 10 years (maybe it was just the first year of honeymoon period he was really happy with as he seems to have forgotten we were together for 11 years...from 1999 - 2010).

I am really peed off that I even spoke to him (I have been conducting our comms mainly via email/text), but he was insistent on meeting face to face as I wanted to get a figure down for maintenance before new girlfriend arrives.....

Dee what sort of set up do you have on the house? Are you both on the mortgage deeds?

If you are not and he marries her. Heaven forbid anything happens to him but where will you stand with housing? He does fly a lot!!!!

I know long term the aim is to get the house sold and all you finances separated.

Remind him you were together 11 years, or was that (the year you met) so bad and traumatic he has blocked it from his memory

Just think in a year or two (or eleven) he will find another awesome woman perfect for him on a work trip away and suddenly this will be a bad relationship and he will do the same to her.

Have a stiff one!

I have PMd you Dee. I'm so sorry.

sounds like the 'marriage' may be to iron out her visa problems? Have you looked at property anywhere else yet? Hate to think of you with her/them right under your nose.

This has been such a major headfuck, turning your life upside down. I do so hope you can get some solace somewhere, away from this poisonous pair.

There is no way on earth you (anyone!) can have deserved this Dee. In your dark hours, please don't ever think there is anything on any level about you that deserved this, even in part.

I know what you mean about feeling sorry for them (these men who do these things). They push it so far that your jaw literally hangs open and you pity them. But please watch that one, please be careful that you don't soften. They#re not as pathetic as they appear, almost always have a killer streak in there somewhere. Contempt, yes - go for that one, it's all that this warrants imo

xxx
ps can't even remember what ssnowflakes said, it was of such little consequence.

He's behaving like a celebrity

ANother lurker here, I have been following your thread.

You have come so far. Stay strong and eyes forward.

Sorry - my earlier post was riddled with typos and spelling mistakes.....

Springy - yes, I have long suspected that some of his thinking has been driven by this whole 'live your life like its the last day' or similar. I found a book with this title - along with a book on body language that he took to US on his NYE flit there. He has quoted the 'grief loss curve' at me - telling me he is concerned that I am stuck in the anger stage and need to move on.....He doesnt have a TV in his house, so has been doing lots of reading (or he was, as he told me in the early days of his leaving - dont know what he does now to be honest as dont ask. But he has to let DS watch DVDs via his PS3 and kids programmes on his laptop. He also did lots of courses with titles like personal excellence, how to be your personal best etc, which were part of his (sales) job. BUT, I do realise that yep, he may well have just fallen out of love, got bored with the relationship, wanted/needed a change etc, but I just cannot understand why he chose to have an affair, why he didn't speak to me etc....well, I do, actually, as it all comes down to communication (or rather lack of it). I am learning so much about myself, but also about ex which is making me see him less and less in relationship terms and actually as a stranger. He says he wishes he hadnt internalised and had spoken to me last year, but yet he spoke to his work colleagues, spoke to his dad and of course spoke to OW. He didn't speak to any friends (as far as I am aware) here or that we both know - took a while for me to click that and guess at the reasons for this........

He says that they never talk about me and has said at least once that I shouldn't flatter myself that they would (this was in the very early days, when I was asking lots of questions). I do think she must have an image of me, else why would she have told ex that he had to phone every 15mins that time, else she would phone the police (though as counsellor said, who knows what she told ex. Maybe she didn't even say that....all I have to work on is his side of things).

Xales - we are joint owners, so he cannot sell without my permission and vice versa. I hadn't thought about me/house if anything happened to him. I probably should look into this as soon as possible.

Alldownhill - hadn't even thought about her not wanting to meet me, but yes, guess you are right. I dread to think what he has told her about me....probably best if I stay well away, for now, at least.

Am still not sure how I feel about his news - I didn't feel any pangs of regret when he told me, just shock and disbelief before going through the whole feeling sorry for him, but do need to keep a check on that. And realise for example, that he may well have had people questioning him and he could actually be really, really happy.

I am more convinced than ever that distance is the way to go now. I know how much she will be earning (I think he only told me, hoping I would tell him how much I am on - just told him it was less than her and reminded him that I left a very good job last year. And he only wants to know so he can baseline his offer for maintenance - thats my reckoning anyway ). It is just so draining - getting so far and then being knocked for six and then getting back up again....

Hoover - will certainly try. Thank-you. I have a friend who's best friend lost her baby daughter (still birth) which is an awful, terrible thing to have to go through and feel for her and her family. It helps me to put things in perspective though - as in, DS is healthy and happy. I am so, so grateful to have him as my DS. So that makes ex the biggest best disappointment?

Am rambling now....off to bed.

Don't feel sorry for him. He chose this. It's most unlikely that the OW has any hold on him more sinister than that some women are good at leading men by their dicks and some men like to be so led.

Just bear in mind that if they need to get married in a bit of a hurry because of the visa situation, that makes your negotiation position stronger.

And beware of demands to meet you when sensitive finances are being discussed. Nothing should ever be agreed until it is in writing (and your solicitor has crawled all over it).

As a marriage, or partnership, deepens with time, the 'feeling in love' goes, replaced by commitment. NOt that the relationship is dry bones, but a lot of the work that comes with a relationship comes into play. You just get on with it, knowing you are committed and bound to one another (particularly if you have children), that it's going to take some work, some self-sacrifice. It's what committed relationships are about and, at any time, one or other of the partnership could look elsewhere, think 'nah, i'm bored with this, I want some excitement' and take off. That's the vulnerability of being in a love relationship I think - there's a big element of trust. Most relationships jog along, quite workaday, ordinary. imo there's a fine line between legitimately unhappy and plain selfish, the latter not only promoted but endorsed in new-agey stuff re do what is best for you. The gall of it is that they're sold the line that if you are doing what makes you happy, you are freeing others up to do what is best for them, you're giving them a present ffs - thus everyone is happy, blissfully so, even. It's bollocks imho. Follow your bliss (ffs)

I don't honestly think this has anything to do with you Dee, is to do with him and the shit he's been feeding on. It's cultish, do you see? No telly - . No, wouldn't want a reminder of how the rest of the world is living, a reminder of the culture we live in. If he gets a snapshot of how the world spins at present, the ordinariness of it, he probably blocks it out to protect the bubble, very probably thinks that what he's into is superior than the dross that most of the western world is concerned with - and there certainly is a lot of dross out there, so he'd feel justified. YOur distress/anger is not convenient for him. He's full of shit, I hope you can see that. He's lost his mind - his humanity?

Tirade over . Was it Fay Weldon who had a similar experience with her husband, who was 'taken over' by his selfishness a therapy influence, the result of which was almost identical to what you are describing has happened here. Did she write a novel about it? I'm not saying therapy is bad just that it can get out of balance, can be too simplistic. It also has the effect that, if you are faced with this monstrous selfishness, the 'superiority' of it, one is speechless, it's almost impossible to raise a protest without sounding whiney.

Anyway, I think I've made my point! I also think that what you are experiencing Dee is not the norm, even within the rank selfishness that can go down - I think it is severe. Keep looking forward, as your latest lurker reminded you. YOu are a strong woman, that's obvious xxx

Hi Dee, I'm a serial lurker on your thread too. Just wanted to say I think you're doing so, so well in the face of his total selfishness and obnoxiousness. I'm glad you've come back onto the thread and I'll be thinking of you this weekeknd x