Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Have fun Dolly !
I agree that these blokes start to show their true colours ,best to leave them to it.
My Xs close friend apologised to me last year ,he said he had only heard one side of the story and it wasnt until he saw how my X treated me when we split(lies ,disrespect etc) that he saw the sort of selfish bloke he was .
People DO find out Dee because our Xs are arrogant sods.It may take a while and you may never know what others think because people feel awkward talking about it .
As time goes by I dont need others to validate what a cruel selfish man my X is ,just knowing the truth myself is good enough.
Big hugs and well done on the acceptance of the shared care of DS.
I just had this thought last week that I am co parenting with one of "The Inbetweeners" its helping me to understand the "incompatability".

Downunderdolly - wow! Go for it! I would love something like that to happen to me, though rarely does! Sounds like you are having fun and defo giving you something other than silly ex to think about (though, sympathise with the whole child support/friends issues). A friend has mentioned about going speed-dating at some point - have said that I may be ready in June (er, dunno either why I picked that month - it is stupid ex's bday then though!)....

Patience - how are things your end? Shared care will hurt like a wotsit, but has to happen as even if, by miracles of miracles, OW changes her mind at the last minute, wouldn't get back with ex, so we all have to get used to it I guess......so hurtful and upsetting, but guess the sooner it happens the better. Thinking of starting overnights next week (DS has done naps there this weekend and last), then off we go.....

Gosh - could only hope that ex lame excuses and actions come to light on their own or through ex's own trip-ups. He is really gunning for the whole acceptance thing (and in double quick time), hence why he isn't 'fessing up to the whole 'affair' and what he did over NYE ('affair' as in, he seriously STILL does not think that he has had an affair! And that the 'affair' has little bearing on where we are now ).

All this emotional triggering has really wiped me out I think. Should serve as a good reminder not to get to this state again. Wiped out today.....

Springydaffs - cant believe that your ex did that after your DD ended up in hospital! I totally get the whole competitive parenting aspect. I remember trying to explain attachment/bond DS and I have - not in an 'ohhh, look at me' way, but more about what a struggle it would be to be apart from him and lovely ex snapped back 'I have a bond with him too you know!'.....as if I said that he hadn't! Nevermind that he is so used to spending nights away from DS with all his work travel and extra-curricular activities.......

Yes, have ditched the crying and wailing in front of him, as all it did was obviously irritate him to the point of making him worse (though in the beginning, before I came on here and learned how to detach, we would go through awful cycles of crying and wailing and then apologising, regretting past actions (him) etc. But, that soon turned quite bitter.....so, ditto, like to save my crying and (most of my) ranting for RL or here....

waterrat - this is what I find the hardest I think. I can stop myself from getting into it with him in terms of arguing about the past, but I can then spend ages analysing things in my head or with friends......how can I stop? Was thinking something like EFT or hypnotherapy etc...? Really need to knock it on the head as am sure he is not over-analysing things in his head (no more than how to get me out of the house etc). Hmmm - may try the calm and cheerful approach - though think the first few attempts may make me choke....

Really interesting to read about the 'apologies'/acceptance of wrong-doing from the people you know. It does feel like this will never, ever happen to me, but after the last few days, I feel impassioned to change my attitude in some way. I don't think I can let go completely of the hurt just yet (and don't expect myself to really), but, I am keen to being in a more positive frame of mind, more of the time (slowly, slowly). It is hard to imagine, but as said, it does get easier...I remember everyone telling me this back when I started this thread and I don't think I fully believed it as the pain was so overwhelming....but it is so, so true....thank you all . I think you are right about his feelings and thoughts deep down. Not wanting to overanalyse him, but maybe this is what is driving his deep, deep anger and resentment towards me. Interestingly enough, he has made so many assumptions over the affair reveal and actions - for example, he bluntly told me once that even if he had come begging and pleading for forgiveness, that I wouldn't have forgiven him. Err, thanks mate, but the 'offer' was never made (who knows how I would have reacted?!). So his cop-out gets blamed on me - again! This convo was ages ago, back in the days of heavy emotional engagement post split; don't go there much (or for long) these days.

Thinking long and hard about moving away now.....just need the house to sell!!

michelle - would love to date again, though it does scare me stiff (and I then decide to stuff it down in my head as a possibility for the future. I have sort of semi-committed to going speed dating in June (think my friend is more keen than me!). Target to lose a couple more dress sizes by then (idiot ex knocked my confidence with his subtle jibes about me being overweight and hence not being confident - and so why he didn't fancy me anymore!)......getting there, with lots of zumba and gym. I do find it a strange experience just being more open to people now. So smiling at folk and being open to conversation without any connotations of a relationship/dating. I think you can (or I did at least) get stuck in that 'not interested in chatting/flirting' mindset....

Lyingwitch - thank-you (you made me cry!). You know, when people have said (mostly in RL) that ex seems to be attached to the drama of the whole situation, I just could never, ever see it. I used to think, in fact, that it was me who was stirring it all up (and I probably did a bit, as a lot of my early interactions were emotionally loaded). But, had a mini-interaction with him on text about access to DS....he gave me some crap, stating his demands and rights. I ignored him and 30mins later, got a final email saying 'no response then?'....And yep, he got no response from me..I did have a bawling session with friends and sis, but it was way better unloading to them than getting into our usual battle by text (esp as they gave me a good telling to in terms of letting him ruin my BH weekend!). I also agree about our interaction - like why does he need to live a few streets away when we both drive?

*On the 2 years/unhappy thing....I am now wondering if this is triggered by arrival of DS? Mid-life crisis etc......but, oh, yeah, I really don't care (trying!).

Been thinking about the whole 'story' thing and how ex is fabricating his web....It has just dawned on me, that not one of his hometown friends or family have asked me for my side of the 'story'. They all seem to have accepted whatever it is that ex is telling them

Hi Dee, I've been following your thread with sympathy. Just thought I'd mention that just because they're not contacting you, doesn't mean they're buying 'his side'. Many people will unconsciously step back from a situation, basically not wanting to get involved. Many a best friend has sympathised that of course the OH is in the wrong, to be rounded on when a couple get back together. His family and friends may well just be standing well back and keeping out of it all. Indeed, the existence of a 'story' at all may even be driving some of them away.

Hang in there, you seem to be doing pretty good to me.

just jumping in with the 'things going round in my head' routine...
I had therapy after I finally got my ex to leave, and it was the best thing ever. I was taught a little technique which takes some practice, but it works. At the end of all these churnings in my mind the conclusion and truth was that he didnt think/behave like a rational person, it was impossible to argue with him, he was always going to paint stuff his own way, and although it was horribly unfair and frustrating, the people who really knew what was happening could see through his bluff and would know it was BS. I just needed to learn and understand this fact like a mantra, so that every time my mind started to mull over the latest encounter I would almost mentally SHOUT at myself - "WHAT IS THE CONCLUSION??" and jump straight to the answer. After a while it became second nature, and saved me mentally torturing myself with hours of agonising, especially as I am 100% sure that he didnt give it a second thought once it was out of his mouth.

I went with the "don't expect reasonable behaviour from someone incapable of giving it" mantra to keep me sane .still repeat that one now,18 mths on.I did some tai chi last yr and I remember telling the instructor another incident that had happened (hurtful selfish whatever)after 30 secs she said ,who cares,let it go ,don't overanalyse.I thought "overanalyse" that was a grain of sand in the Sahara mate !
I think her point was the answer is always the same,he is a selfish bastard.But analysing is negative so move away from it.Bloody hard though.time helped me a lot and dumping all my ,why is he doing this to me stuff ,on MN.
In my head I was able to accept my life had changed ,emotionally it took a longer.Just keep doing what feels right for you just now.I always try and see the version of me doing the co parenting bit calm;serene and happy and for me I'm getting close to this now as I lose my anger and hurt.my X will always be a unpredictable irresponsible arse but I no longer have to let it affect me.Big hugs x

AIBU or is he.....

Ex dropped news that his folks are coming down for a visit this weekend (he told me on Mon, they arrive tonight, go back on Mon am). First, he asked if he could have DS for part of both Sat and Sun - reluctantly agreed as its for DS' sake...messed up my plans a bit but then stupid ex started banging on about how DS hadn't seen his folks for 4 months..hardly my fault, but hey..

Anyway, he then sends me a text message yesterday night to ask if he could do nursery run tomorrow so he can take DS back to his. Not happy about this as he knows that Fri is 'my' day at the moment and partly for the principle of sticking to a separation agreement. I tried to put aside my feelings for his parents (as mentioned in earlier posts, no contact from them bar a birthday card etc) but thought that it would be okay if he picked up DS but bought him back to mine for 6.30pm..well, told him this this morning and he flew off the handle. Saying he hadn't seen DS much this week (again, not my fault that he has had to travel here, there and everywhere for work?!) And how I was being inflexible..? Now, wx chooses to go and pick up DS from nursery at 5.30pm. Suggested he could perhaps pick him up straight after teatime, so that's around 4.30pm..still not haPpy!! He expects to be have DS from pick-up until bedtime, then from 8am to 3.30pm on Sat and Sun (usually he has him all day Sat).

He has also dropped bombshell that he wants to take DS away for a weeks hol inJuly or August....and, yep, OW will be here at beginning of July!! So much for a gradual introduction to her....think that ex never intended to do this from the beginning....

Sorry, will come back and reply to other posts. Am typing on teeny, tiny blackberry screen and keyboard and its taken me ages to write this lot out!!

Just suit urself Dee.Tell him u need more warning to change visits ie he cant accuse u of inflexibility if he doesn't give u a weeks notice.Don't let him bully you.Give him more access this week if it works for you and Ds,but on ur terms.Deep breath re holiday.Did u ever read about drama triangles/transactional analysis.he sounds the victim,ow the rescuer and he is making u the bitch/ perpetrator that causes the problem by putting these unreasonable situations in ur path again and again to get u to react.its all adrenaline to him,jump out the triangle,i don't talk on the phone at all anymore to my x.big hugs x

yes, yabu, your argument is with your ex, it is your argument, not your ds's. Your ds should be able to see his gp's whatever your feelings for them and not be used as a weapon in your fight. You have said yourself he loves spending time with your ex.

Re holiday, I would tell him that you would be lost if you had a week apart from your son, and that it is too early for you. Suggest that he can take son away for a long weekend.

Thanks for the replies. Very interesting to read?..the whole point of my argument being with ex, was something I discussed in my counseling session yesterday, so timely. I also want to work positively on the whole co-parenting thing for DS? benefit, so happy to take comments of unreasonableness on board.

I am keen to not get entangled in losing sight of ex as still being DS? father, but I am also keen to set some boundaries with him and to do this early on so we all know the lay of the land. It is hard to fully explain, but ex is the type who expects things his way or no way. If I give him an inch, he will literally take a couple of miles just for good measure. On the day he came back from his NYE jaunt with OW, he wanted to put the house up for sale that very day and wanted to firm up access for DS (I was of course picking my jaw up from the floor as I was still believing that he has gone to the US to think about a future ?us?). I will of course be flexible in the future, but there have been multiple times when he has ditched his responsibilities for work/personal holidays/his ?free time??..e.g. he insists on calling twice a day on those days when he doesn?t see DS and yet, say, if OW is here visiting or he has been invited out with friends or at a corporate do, he can suddenly forget to call, cut short his visits (back when he was visiting DS in the family house). He bemoans not being able to see DS in general, yet, he thinks nothing of booking holidays to go to the US to see her, weekends back home and hasn?t really clicked that he has to manage his work and life in general around son now on those days that he has him (i.e. trying not to miss his assigned access time and then blaming me for being inflexible and taking no responsibility!?!). I have given up trying to talk to him about this ? at least for now ? as he just seems to get angry at me??..So its about getting that balance without being walked all over?..

But, agree, this is not DS? fault . It?s a case of making him know that we are not a cosy family unit anymore where things can be worked around his schedule at the drop of a hat (as I often did in the past). I did have plans for DS on Sunday (and for myself on Saturday!), but have cancelled these now.

As for the holiday ? yep, I have to suck it up if that?s his choice. Nothing I can do about that, though my preference would be for a gradual introduction (as he agreed to), but, he can do what he likes. Hurts like hell, but that?s the way it is?.It is also a killer that he hasn?t bothered to spend a single days leave with DS (i.e. taking him out of nursery for the day etc) and yet has been to the US for week long hols in Jan, Mar and going again at the end of this month. And, yes, I know that what he does with his leave is not my business, but I don?t think the old ex would have acted like this?..oh well??

Contact by text/email seems to be much easier ? but as DS is so little, we do have to talk as we do handovers etc??

YANBU - completely understand the boundaries

It's all about respect imo,nothing wrong with boundaries,he sounds an arrogant self important sod.I am not suggesting u withold visits with gps,far from it,this connection is to be encouraged .But he has to learn you and Ds have a life independent of him and he cant click his fingers and expect u to cancel everything.

Hi Dee,

I completely agree with Patience and oohlaala.

It's very strange for me to read your posts, obviously our circumstances are different but the behaviour of the ex's is exactly the same.

It is such a balancing act of wanting to do the right thing for ds, but you don't want to give in to a bully. At times like this I try to compromise to an extent but not do everything he wants because as you say if you give him an inch...(I regularly say that about my ex).

Go with your instincts on what is best for you and ds and keep your communication with him detached, strong and consistent.

hi Dee, I read your OP and I am just finding myself in a very similar situation with so many of the lies and concerns that you describe. I won't read all the posts tonight but will come back on soon.

Ahhhhh - am back on a proper PC!!

oohlaalaa - cross-post there! I can certainly say that to ex, but I can pretty much guarantee what he will say ('well, thats tough, I want to spend time with DS. It is something that you will have to get used to I'm afraid.'...If he is feeling particularly generous, he may also tell me that its 'not all about me' and how fantastic and wonderful OW is). The thing is, if he wanted to take DS away for a few days with say his parents or his sister and her boys, I could cope with that....don't get me wrong, I would miss DS terribly, but I would feel some peace in that he was focusing primarily on DS. I do feel horribly nervous with this whole 'soulmates'/mad rush affair with OW and the actions of ex.....it is all just very, very fishy and I am more than a bit worried about DS being with this person who is upping sticks for ex, who she has spent so little time with and who is telling her in a roundabout way that she will never be his top priority (even though he is hers apparently?! Will stop over-analysing now!). I will definitely push on the boundaries aspect......if only so DS and I can have a life, where we can plan things, do things etc....

Patience - how are things? Hope all is well with you and your DCs....'self-important' describes him to a tee. This is what I don't want to encourage - that he thinks he still has a position of importance in my life, iyswim? He has to start to realise that if he misses access time with DS on a regular basis every week, then this is not okay (and no, ex doesn't work in a critical job or work shifts.....he is just a high earning salesman who likes to take his customers out on jolly's and is not used to having to put DS before his job. He never has done).

Ironwilled - detached and consistent is going well. It does get a bit better each day. We had a run-in outside the house this morning when he asked me about all this. He did his usual attempt at chastising me as I was a child and after he had driven off sent me a text message saying that I was classy arguing in the street in the morning! Saw red, so went upstairs and thumped a pillow a bit and had a bit of a scream! Was sooo good (Patience - not got around to starting a kick-boxing class yet ) and aside from my posts on here, it didn't really cross my mind again today and best thing, I didn't bother replying to his stupid text......

Offer him what you considered reasonable and first offered him in a text/email.

When he whinges, moans and calls you names. Simply say you already had plans, less than 1 week is not enough notice and offer him the same again.

If he carries on whinging offer it again and say that is when you can have DS as we already had plans.

Then repeat. Text email is great as you can literally cut and paste.

You don't have to take calls to you if he gets shouty. Calmly tell him you are not accepting this call and put the phone down. Then email him repeating what you decided.

Yes DS deserves quality time with his dad and his GP (unfortunately) but this quality time is all coming all on his terms when he wants and fitting around his plans with his new woman. He is not making DS his No 1 quality priority when she is around.

Plus if you are working all week your son also deserves quality time with you and not just the get him home, get him fed, bathed and bed.

You need to agree set times for him to have with his dad. How his dad choses to share that time with the GP on his side is his problem as they obnoxious to you.

You then need to agree how long is fair to make changes (apart from emergencies obviously).

You are not always being selfish if you say no and don't let him tell you that you are!

Suggest mediation?

Meant to add keep as much as you can to email and text so you have proof you are offering him something and he cannot say you are denying access.

You are doing really well. You are only 8 weeks from your OP and look how strong you are.

Whereyouleftit - thanks for offering that viewpoint. That hadn't really crossed my mind to be honest, though it makes sense that this may be the case for some folk. I do feel mightily angry that he is going around giving some sob story of a mutual split etc. Esp, when this is combined with their lack of decency in terms of splashing themselves all over FB and living round the corner - eventually, though hopefully not for long.....

nettletea - I agree, I dont think that ex gives me, his words or his actions a second thought after they have come out or we are no longer in each others space....Will try the mental shout (may have to give it a bit of voice to start with as he is being particularly annoying with holiday talk etc) combined with pillow punching to get the thoughts out of my system (obviously, will only do this when at home/in private).....how did you find the counselling/therapy? I have been going since beginning of March (or was it end Feb?!) and have had dips and highs....seems to be good and beneficial in the main.......

Just a quick post Dee: ex and I kept a book in which we wrote details about the kids during the time they were with each of us, which we handed over when they went to access with him*. That way we didn't have to talk to one another but could keep the flow of info about the kids and somehow it was a way of keeping the focus on the kids and didn't spill into digs about eachother.

• that was a crap sentence - very late, brain not really workin, hope you get the gist!

Re mediation, I know very little about this, but presumably if ex is a salesman and conversation dominator, and manipulator, you will need one hell of a good mediator to keep him in line, and for Dee to be able to get her point across without being upset by ex.

I know I'm not so good at communicating, with someone who's egotistical, narcisstic and manipulative. However, Dee, you may be clever than me, and better at communicating with idiots.

Dee, re a weeks holiday, could you tell him in an email that you are not ready for the contact between OW and your DS that a holiday would entail, but that he could take DS away for a few days to see his parents or his sister and her boys, before OW arrives from US. Perhaps also say that you will review the situation in August, on whether you would be up to managing him having a long weekend with DS and an OW present.

Perhaps you could pre-empt him by telling him that you are aware that you need to get used to DS having holidays without you, but that this needs to be done very gradually, and at your pace, and three or four months time is too soon?

Very good point oohlaalaa - my ex had a mediator, a counsellor and a judge eating out of his hand

springydaffs - like the idea of a book where we make notes etc. At the momeny, I am so keen to get rid of ex when he drops DS off that I do sometimes forget to ask him about usual nursery rundown and on the odd occasion have had to call him (e.g. If DS is constipated and checking if he has done a poo etc). Very annoying and hate having to call him!!!

You have both hit the nail on the head wrt mediation!! I even had another thread here somewhere on it. I was all for it in the beginning but have realised that ex would only be interested in using the process to get what he wants. He was banging on about mediation late March again when I said no to him introducing OW to DS. As I was fed up with him and his pov, decided to call up one and even booked a provisional appt!! Emailed all the details to ex - this happened to be the same day he had a meeting in London that conveniently matched OWs first day on her trial week at new job!! Of course, I didn't hear a tiddly boo from him in response and then last week when I say he is being unfair expecting to see DS Fri, Sat and Sun just becasue GPs are here, he wants to go to mediation again!! Complete nightmare..Am staying clear for now...he can start to lump some decisions from now on...just so, so sick of him.

He is also acting funny....keeps looking at me, telling me I look good (miracles of Primark!! Have a new outfit on each time he sees me....) and this morning was speaking in a gentle voice and asking me if I had a good night and how was yesterday?? Err, I was sat indoors on my tod last night avoiding the million pound drop as last time I watched it was with him and I clearly remember pausing the sky tv for 30mins whilst he answered an urgent call from the US!! Didn't tell him this of course - just uttered some one word answers, did smile as I said them though!!). Reckon he is up to something...latest news is that he is away again at end of month for 11 nights. Part business, though he has kindly told me that he will be tacking on some holiday time at the end...you can of course guess his destination...

springydaffs - like the idea of a book where we make notes etc. At the momeny, I am so keen to get rid of ex when he drops DS off that I do sometimes forget to ask him about usual nursery rundown and on the odd occasion have had to call him (e.g. If DS is constipated and checking if he has done a poo etc). Very annoying and hate having to call him!!!

You have both hit the nail on the head wrt mediation!! I even had another thread here somewhere on it. I was all for it in the beginning but have realised that ex would only be interested in using the process to get what he wants. He was banging on about mediation late March again when I said no to him introducing OW to DS. As I was fed up with him and his pov, decided to call up one and even booked a provisional appt!! Emailed all the details to ex - this happened to be the same day he had a meeting in London that conveniently matched OWs first day on her trial week at new job!! Of course, I didn't hear a tiddly boo from him in response and then last week when I say he is being unfair expecting to see DS Fri, Sat and Sun just becasue GPs are here, he wants to go to mediation again!! Complete nightmare..Am staying clear for now...he can start to lump some decisions from now on...just so, so sick of him.

He is also acting funny....keeps looking at me, telling me I look good (miracles of Primark!! Have a new outfit on each time he sees me....) and this morning was speaking in a gentle voice and asking me if I had a good night and how was yesterday?? Err, I was sat indoors on my tod last night avoiding the million pound drop as last time I watched it was with him and I clearly remember pausing the sky tv for 30mins whilst he answered an urgent call from the US!! Didn't tell him this of course - just uttered some one word answers, did smile as I said them though!!). Reckon he is up to something...latest news is that he is away again at end of month for 11 nights. Part business, though he has kindly told me that he will be tacking on some holiday time at the end...you can of course guess his destination...

Keep a note of it all. Dates and times.

That way when it comes down to him saying you didn't let me see my son x Friday you can reply well I am not the one who went away (with work) for 11 days and cared so much about seeing DS that I tacked on extra holiday to see Miss USA and didn't care then about seeing your son......

Not to get back at him. Just for useful info if it ever gets nasty with courts etc.

With the being nice. You have just said no to him and put your foot down a teeny tiny bit and not let him have everything his own way. So he has to butter you up, get back into your good books so that you will not do it again.