Is H having his cake and.....

[womblingfree1970]

A bit of a complicated story.H and I split several years ago.Broken trust on both sides.Both of us had caused issue in our marriage.So we seperated and were heading for divorce.

I stayed in the home with our young children and he moved out.Our house was a mortgaged home and so I knew(sought legal advice) that when the youngest reached 18 I would have to sell up or pay H his share of property.Since split I have been a single mum.So I've been the one bringing up the children(visits to dad),providing for the children financially,emotioanlly.Upkeep of home etc etc.The only thing he has provided is £5 a week child support and the odd contribution to school trips where he's paid half.

The £5 a week is a bit of an issue as he earns £40,000 a year but because of a totally legal loophole he only has to declare minimum wage and so only has to pay minimum child support.And yes its totally legal and there was nothing I could do about it.

Well a few years down the lines and we've decided to give things another go.We have been seeing each other for more than a year and a half.The arrangement has been that he comes over and sees me and kids.We go out for day trips with the occasional overnight stay during week and things have been going well.Of course the aim being that we get back together if things go well.And things have been

Well last night we had a chat about our future and what next.H drops a bombshell that although he would like to move back in eventually he doesn't see a way foreward because if he moves back in he has to give up the flat he is in now and so if things don't work out he then has no home and the place he is in now is cheap rent and he'd be very very lucky to get somewhere like that again.Also if he moves back in and he loses his job(he's self employed) and then we split he would then be in the position of no job and no home.He said he can't think of anything to sort this out.

I can understand the reasons for the latter.Its because when we split several years back he had no job and no where to go but because of the circumstances(which were his doing at the time) he was the one who left and he had to move in with a sister.This sister has now moved abroad so if this were to happen again he really would have no where to go.

So yes I understand his situation and the difficulties with it but on mine and more importantly the childrens side of things,we can't live like this forever.Where I am basically living as a single mum,bringing up the children but he pops around to see us.And he has only himself to look after and do as he pleases in his home.One of my thoughts are wouldn't I be better of going it alone and building a new life where I could potentially meet someone new.

So to sum it up I'm the one looking after the children full time(fiancially and emotionally) and maintaining the home(fiancially and general maintainance like decorating etc).And he is living in a flat where he only has himself to look after and spend the evenings watching tv or sleeping.Paying me £5 child support.

Isn't this him having his cake and eating it.

We hear you but I still wonder why you are letting him dictate your life.

Wombling - you aren't answering the question of why on earth you want to get back together with him at all.

Anyone who moves in with someone else could say 'oh but I don't want to lose the flat I have now ' etc. But people make decisions and move forward with their lives.

He is thinking only about whether or not he would get to keep the flat / half of the house - it's just absolutely horrible.

People make decision every single day that mean turning down other possible life paths - thats what it means to be in a relationship.

His reasoning is absolutely bizarre.

Your post really makes me sad - this man is offering you absolutely nothing and ensuring he protects himself financially in the most cold and calculated way. He sounds horrible and unloving - and yet you are talking only about what HE wants.

YOu gain nothing from being with him - he is even telling you he could leave at any time - if you let him move back in - THEN he will have a claim on your house. DONT DO IT.

Get divorced and then you can fight for ownership of the house.

and finally - even forgetting all financial constraints DO NOT get back together with this man. You deserve so much better, you have fought hard on your own to bring up your children, imagine being free from this man - getting those qualifications, working, being free to meet someone caring and kind.

Your husband is making no gestures of love, just whining about money - he's an absolute low life. I'm sorry to say that - but he is.

You know you only get one life. Please use it for yourself and your children and do not make negative decisions based on fear.

I think the tax people would be very interested if they found out about his savings...because if it's savings it's not 'business money' it's income - which the CSA could then take into account.

This man appears to have no morals at all. I'm surprised he isn't thinking about sub-letting the flat for £80 a week and squirrelling it away with the rest of his thousands. But of course that would be illegal and not a loophole.

I'm a self-employed single parent and it has never crossed my mind to pay myself the minimum wage. I'm disgusted.

Have some self-respect OP and shop him then ship him out.

What waterrat said, very eloquently.

waterrat

and everyone.asks why am I with him.Love of course is one but really the main ones are wanted to bring up kids with both mum and dad(not that thats happening now)but thought up until yesterday thats what we were working towards.Actually getting back together.

Also fear of unknown,fear of divorce,fear of loneliness.Have no friends or family.Fear of struggling to meet ends meet if I have to buy him out(housewise)in the future.Because he definately has some claim.

Up until yesterday I thought it was a case of seeing if things could work and then him moving back.Then us buying a new home together.Now it seems thats not the case.

The rest of it like £5 a week never bothered me as I thought it doesn't matter as we are getting back together and whats his will be the families and vise versa.

The main reason was wanting both parents for kids.And even that doesn't seem to be something thats will ever happen.I've wasted many years should have divorced him a long time ago.

Oh forgot to say he is very loving towards me.Says it every day.small gestures.sometimes the odd gift(although I'm not materialistic).

I believe he loves me but I believe he puts himself above me and the kids.

I don't know if anyone else has said this as haven't read the whole thead but:

I think I understand that your H owns a company, he pays himself minimum wage, which CSA is based off, and the rest of the money he earns is the company's profits, and he is the only shareholder of the company, so he takes the rest of it in dividends that I'm assuming don't count towards CSA calucations, is that correct? Or he keeps the money the business, until you are divorced, then pays his shareholders (ie himself) the money at that point, allowing him to save in the company, paying himself dividends when he needs a bit more money.

Also, you aren't currently divorced, have I got that right too?

Well, surely the shares of the business (which he owns) are also a financial asset of the marriage, and effectively you can be awarded a % of those. i.e. you will from then onwards be entitled to that share of the company profits.

Any solicitor who thinks that a business owned by your H shouldn't be taken as an asset you both jointly own (in the same way even though the house is in your name only he has a claim on it) really is a bit crap.

But that is all pie in the sky wombling....
He has already indicated he may give up his job and his 40k salary once he moved in with you. Then he will sponge of you even further.

Wombling I'm sorry to hear it's been so difficult for you - I can understand that you have wanted to give your children a stable life.

But this man is not offering that. You have been trusting of his motives in keeping the money to himself but as he has shown recently with all this talk of not moving in, he is not planning to offer you any security at all. He is keeping every single protection in place so that you never get any security or more bluntly any of his money.

He doesn't want to move back in because he doesn't want to owe you anything or be beholden in anyway. I'm sorry you have realised all this, it must be tough - but thank god you have.

having both parents around is overrated - like many many people I grew up in a house with my mum and saw my dad ocassionally. I am a succesful happy person - and my parents are better off without each other.

this man is not providing you with security - so dont look for it from him. YOu had good motives he has clearly had shit ones, all about keeping himself untangled from you financially so he can leave whenever he wants.

If, as you say, he is loving, then perhaps he is just tight to the bone - how sad for him.

Get divorced and move on with your life - a third of all marriages end in divorce - it is no benefit at all for children to be brought up in a family held together by worry and fear of the alternative. Clearly you are doing a good job so far.

tallwivglasses - tax know all about it, it's standard practice for a lot of contractors in the city - when he pays that money to himself as a dividend as a shareholder, he has to pay income tax on the money then, but not National Insurance, this does save a lot of money over the years. However, if you pay out the money to yourself every month, they call it income and make you pay the NI, so most hold the money in the company for 6-12 months then pay themselves, (living off credit cards in the meantime then clearing them with the dividend) or hold it in the company for years so that if they don't have any work, they can still pay themselves a monthly wage.

I hate to join the pile-in

But I just want to say one thing

I hate this man

tallwivglasses

Thanks for that.That exactly how it works remembered now what its called.Its known as a limited company.So basically those who are self employed set up this limited company and as tallwivglasses pay themself a minimum wage.Thus avoiding big tax payouts etc.

QuintessentialShadows

Wanted to make it clear he hasn't hinted at giving up work if he moved back>he says he fears he could lose his job(as its contract and could happen now or last 50 years).So he fears if he lost job and at the same time our relationship was not going well that he would be the one leaving.Having no job and no flat and no money.Whereas if he lost job now he has a council house and the council can't take that wawy from him.

FakePlasticTrees

Sorry misread it.Realise it was you who explained it well.Thanks.

Womblingfree1970 - did you take in my point that you will be entitled to a share of his business upon a divorce???

Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with what PeterAndre just said.

Sorry OP been lurking as have nothing practical to contribute bit am outraged for you.

Hoping you find the strength to get this nasty sponge out of your life.

((Womblingfree1970 - did you take in my point that you will be entitled to a share of his business upon a divorce???))

FakePlasticTrees

Yes I did see that.Not something I'd thought of before.And the reason why solicitor didn't advise on this is because I never told them as I thought it didn't count.Because he got business after we split.

forgot to say Thanks for that FakePlasticTrees

H has just rang and its turned into an arguement.Well when I say arguement more I tried to talk calmly and just disagreed with him and he was shouting.

H reitterated that I don't understand that he fears being out on his own with nothing as he's been through that.And it was an emotionally bad time for him.

And yes he has and did go through an emotionally stressful time where he feared he had lost everything.

He got kicked out of home.No money,no job,nowhere to go(except sisters) because of something major that he did.(don't really want to go into what).But at the end of the day it was his fault.

He then said yes he knows it was his fault but that fear is there and that it could happen again.I said no not if you don't do what you did again.He said no but it could happen just because the marriage isn't working so he's asked to leave.

I said look I have fears to of things not working etc but I'm willing to try.He said but its different for you if marriage doesn't work he's the one who has to move out so I'm back to how I am now.Which is true.But I can't do anything about that.That just how it is.Surely he should be thankful that he's being given another chance.

Why do you not want to go into the family argument that got your h kicked out of his home, it could be relevant, it may put a light on why he is as he is if his parents were toxic!?

He wants you to let him come back without him promising anything. When it all gets shit, he can say "I told this would happen" leaving you feeling crap and him having a get out of jail free card.

Please DON'T DO IT! He does not care enough to support his own children properly! I posted on your other thread. He is not THANKFUL. He thinks you are a mug.

wombling - you sound like you are trying to convince him to move back with you. Two questions:

Why should you need to do that to someone who supposedly loves you and supposedly you love him?
Are you sure that is really what you want? Because once he moves in he will dangle this supposed breaking up fear over your head. Any time you express any misgivings about your relationship in the future, this card will be played as emotional blackmail to get him to stay.
How about turning the tables a bit and saying he can only move in if he starts paying more towards the children (i.e. what they are worth) prior to him moving in.

MummieHunnie

Haven't explainned myself corectly so I think you have wrong end of the stick.

I kicked him out of our home 5 years ago because of something major that he did whilst in marriage.At the time he had no job,no place to go(apart from sisters).He basically had short notice to find somwhere because of what he did.

He fears that he could come back and if marriage doesn't work I have upper hand so to speak because I would be the one to stay in the home and he'd have to move out again.

I've said well surely I have the fear of he might do what he did again but I'm taking a chance or am I being foolish doing that

Question? Do you WANT him back, as in you have forgiven him for whatever he did in the past, and still love him, and REALLY want to make a go of things?

Or do you not want to be alone in the future and to have to sell your house?

From your posts so far, I am not really sure what camp you fall into. I still think he is an arse personally, but understanding YOUR feelings on this, OP, will help people give suitable advice.