Hello from a child-free girl...

[goldilockz]

Hi everyone,

I hope you don't mind me becoming a member of your forums, I must admit I'm rather nervous to be doing so and hope you'll have the patience to read my post through to the end. Briefly, I'm a 26 year old from Scotland who has no children and doesn't want any children (please don't let this put you off!) This was never an issue for me until my long-term boyfriend and I started discussing having children last year. He thinks he wants children while I have never experienced the elusive maternal urge or ticking of the biological clock. While I initially thought that adopting would be a reasonable compromise, I soon came to my senses and realised that a person should not be a compromise and that someone who doesn't want children shouldn't have them when her only reason for doing so would be to maintain her relationship. I discussed this with a few friends, some of whome knew where I was coming from, others who were a bit less accepting of the fact I'm unlikely to change my mind, saying that I've been given a womb for a reason, that my clock will start ticking etc. While I acknowledge that this is a possibility, I know that it's highly unlikely.

My reason for posting is that, since that 'chat' with my boyfriend which obviously caused us both a lot of distress as, lets face it, disagreeing about having children is a deal-breaker, I have become more and more aware of my 'child-free' status and ever more aware of the divisions between women who don't have or want children and women that do. This, admittedly, is something that concerns me. I don't like the idea of going through life judging other people because their decision differs from mine, nor do I want to be defensive and, while I have found websites such as thechildfreelife.com to be helpful, I also think they make one identify more with a child-free persona and being child-free is only a small part of who I am. My reasons for joining this forum is to integrate myself more with people who are not child-free, hopefully make a few friends and perhaps learn something from one another. I don't want to go through life being defensive about not having children or feel I have to justify my choice. I don't want to be labelled as being 'child-free' or the like, but I have noticed that this is something I identify myself with more and more and this upsets me. OK, enough of my waffling. I hope what I've said has made some sense and that I've not offended anyone in the process, as that is completely the opposite of why I'm here. I'm shaking as I write this because I'm very aware of the disparity between women who have children and those who don't and am envisaging a backlash! I hope that doesn't happen and I'm looking forward to your replies.

Goldi xx

I haven't read the whole of this thread, but just thought I'd stick my oar in. I was totally undecided about whether I wanted kids or not, until I met a man who I fell in love with, married and wanted to settle down and create a family and a future with. The decision to have kids was never driven by one or the other of us - it just came to us naturally. So I'd say that yes, you're right, if your partner desperately wants kids and you don't then it is a deal-breaker. But you might find that you do wnat kids with someone else in the future.

OP I suspect you're lurking at reading this thread but maybe don't have the courage to post again?

I can;t beleive I'm actually going to engage with your OP but in the interestes of trying to be the saner better person, I will.

There is nothing wrong with choosing not to have children. Although maybe people know from experience that they thought the same way at 26 and changed their minds, that doesn't mean you will and certainly I didn't feel any defensiveness about it or any need to join forums discussing it so perhaps you are more militant certain than I was. In which case, get sterilised it will be a clear sign to your partner that you never intend to have children and can make his decisions accordingly. Otehrwise he too will probably be half convinced that you might change your mind and you will be stringing him along.

I have one friend who was sterilised at your age and chose instead to adopt her three children and one friend who is 47 who does not ant (and has never wanted) children who is very fond of my son. I would be amazed if she felt any great desire to "understand" me or any of her other friends who have kids. We aren't an alien life form.

I don't blame people one bit who are child free preferring not to mix with loud unruly groups of childrne, when I am (temporarily) child free I enjoy that too.

But to anyone who talked about being a mother being the most interesting things about a person - surely thats only a great interest to me and my child

Having read this properly,

OP is trying to create a divide between childless and those with children.

I have no idea why.

the breastfeeding comment is horrible.

Oh but the one thing I do agree with you about is that an adopted child deserves the best possible mother they can get not someone who'd really rather have a puppy. Not going down that route was a good call.

I think you're still very young. Don't worry about it right now and don't let it ruin your relationship. I agree with people who said never say never - I used to be the same as you and being a mum in my early 30's is honestly the very best, most fun thing in the whole world, it has totally enriched my life (which was pretty good before). I do miss a good lie-in though...

Methinks she may be afraid of changing her mind and so is making out that parents despise her and that makes her uncertainty more certain.....would be quite embarrassing to base your whole life on one belief only to find as you grow older you change your mind.

I'm not sure I understand how anyone who doesn't want to be a parent would consider adoption, it seems people that are desperate to be parents consider adoption. Anyone can get pregnant (fertility issues aside) but to adopt you have to jump through so many hoops. Fear of birth could be valid....or the millions of other reasons people decide to adopt but not wanting children and considering adoption is frankly bizarre.

ah Lucy - I think you will be counted among the "bingoers" - apparently anyone who points this out is "bingoing" the OP.

I doubt she will return to this thread, unless it is to rail against our hostility and lack of welcome, and also our lack of interest in understanding her child-free stance (like it's some kind of evangelical mission ) - but no doubt the thread on her other forum is continuing to freely abuse us all, us poor mother-types, who think of nothing but our offspring.

Op you sound ever so slightly self-obsessed. Why would anyone care if you are, and want to remain CF??? Your business, up to you. You sound very immature and a bit silly, posting on one web site and then running back to slag it of on another - smacks of look at me, look at me.

dear me. op you need to find something to worry about. according to tcfl you don't have 'childed' friends anyway so whats the issue?

i have a mixed spectrum of friends (i have one child) some have kids, some think they might one day have kids (we are early 30's), some have decided not to have kids. i am v good friends with a married couple who do not want kids. ever. the last time we discussed this was in about 2003 - so you can see its having a MASSIVE impact on our friendship. massive i tell you!

fwiw i have expereinced much more prejudice from cf people than the other way around. comments like 'its like a bloody creche in here!' (people coming into a cafe where we have lunch on fridays with the toddlers (who sit nicely fwiw) and have dome for months on end plus the cafe owner makes a huge fuss of us and loudly encourages us to patronise his business) are just mean and hurtful and yet the 'child free' community seem to think they are a persecuted minority. whatever!

SGT - I believe that is the reason that she came on here, because she has no friends with children, so we are objects of curiosity to her. She wishes to examine us, see the differences between us and herself, and see whether the "divide can be bridged" ...
oh sorry, PMSL, it's too funny really - I am still angry but actually it's really funny - no, the divide can't be bridged, apparently because we are all too obsessed with our children.

Goldilockx gems:

I don't mean to be stereotypical, but a lot of people who have 4, 5 or more children can barely string an intelligent sentence together.
I counted the number of women I saw without children. There was only one and she was the Big Issue seller.
I agree about the miracle of birth. How can it be a miracle when it happens thousands of times a day? Plus, there's no great mystery to how it happens

Sometimes I feel very intolerant towards mothers and their children because there are so many of them and I feel like I need more personal space than this family friendly society allows for.
Do they really expect me, after this time, to chuck my education and ambitions away and have kids? I said to my mum I felt that you lose your self when you have kids and you become 'mum'. She didn't quite get this because she said that being a sister or cousin or daughter or wife has the same effect. The fact is, she hasn't really achieved anything in her life besides having children.

Quick word for the OP - if you really wanted to integrate yourself into the MN community, you should change your name to something like 'goldifuckinglockz' (see thread here), start posting useful advice on threads about feminism/style and beauty/books/travel/friday-night bumsex or whatever your interests are, and you would fit right in, as do plenty of other posters who don't have children or aren't even female. No one would even bother asking if you had children.

Joining mumsnet with a very self-absorbed post about not wanting children, and then running back to your other forum to complain about us, is not the best way to 'integrate' and make friends, though. In my opinion.

HTH.

I have read the thread she started and with a few exceptions the responses to her seem pretty well balanced.

The lady who thinks that people ask her "if" she has children shows that she looks different (apparently younger but I can't argue with that!)... ermmm, no its because people don;t assume you have childrne if you have none with you. People ask me the same, why would they assume a stranger has childrne .

OP seems obsessed with teh idea that she needs "childed" friends because otherwise she will end up with no friends when she's older. She doesn;t seem to have the imagination to realise that her current unchilded (?) friends will probably go on to have children at some point when (provided she got her head around the idea by then) they will still be friends. And if they don't have childrne then she will still have friends so problme solved.

Who goes around at 26 defining themselves by one fact, and that is they don't have children......she's immature and attention seeking.

Bumpsadaisie - congratulations on Number 2!

Yes, Kew, I was most encouraged by the more balanced response. Being CF is nothing to be proud of, neither is having a baby, being a successful whatever is though, as is being a good parent....all take a little work. TBH I can't abide people who don't like children, I have no desire to understand or engage with them. We were all children once. That said, I can't abide dippy parents who expect you to feel the same way about their children as they do, cute is cute, funny is funny.

"The fact is, she hasn't really achieved anything in her life besides having children." so if she didn;t have childrne she woudl have been prime minister?

I have a degree, a professional qualification, am a finance director, own my own home in London and manage to own more of it than the bank does, I can speak (at least conversationally) 4 languages and have a child. Perhaps if I hadn't had him I would be prime minister.

Kewc - I think you probably should be Prime Minister - no doubt you'd do a better job than the current incumbent!

A bit sad too that she is so dismissive of her mothers part in helping her get to an age where she can acheive what she wants to alive and well relatively well balanced. Apparently her mother has acheived nothing

Kew....Is that all you've achieved?

Oh I doubt it thumb - have a tendancy in boring meetings to say "this is getting a bit dull can we move on"!

Frankly, I wish I hadn't been so nice now. Clearly she wanted something to make a great big fuss about. And since she's 26 and surrounded by other people who are childless, this is a non-issue about nothing, really. I doubt other people are discussing children with her at all. Certainly no-one did with me when I was 26.

That said, I stand by everything I said, I have a close friend who doesn't want children but is worried she's missing something because everyone seems to make it their personal mission to make her procreate. I've told her to stick to her guns - and not to have children because someone else thinks it's a good idea.

That said - I have another childless by choice couple among our friends and fond as I am of them I wish they were on "receive" a bit more and on "transmit" a bit less. They're always complaining about people claiming they're selfish etc (and I sympathise, and reassure them they're not) but in exchange, it would be nice if they didn't call my daughhter "it". It cuts both ways...

gah - random h in daughter!

actually DS was a huge acheivement (and tougher than any of the boastful accomplishments except possibly learning Russian but that was linked with him so maybe I could bundle it together?) but then I did have to do it the hard way.

And to be fair all that I have acheived is not really "success" - I did what I wanted and ejoyed it all. I chose now to have a more laid back life with less money because now I enjoy that and I made that decision before DS - I was already working 4 days before he arrived.