Awful sex mistake - the shame :-(

[h20]

Sorry about this, but I have just had the most bizarre experience and I don't know what to make of it. I drop my sons off at School in the mornings and have noticed one of the dads of a kid in my eldest's class looking at me a lot since last summer. I often see him staring over, and have noticed him watching my arse as I walk away because I can see him reflected in a glass door etc.

He finally came up to speak to me last week and we made awkward small talk. I am thinking he is cute - not my usual type, but cute. He is a coach at a local sports club. I ask someone that knows him at work what he is like and the report back is positive. I am half thinking he might ask me out.

Anyway, this morning I have the day off and as I leave the school grounds he is there. We have a quick chat and I tell him I am off work today and tomorow. He asks me about my husband, I tell him I am divorced. I say why doesn't he bring his son to play one day. He say's 'I don't think my partner would like it much', but maybe have coffee some time? We go our separate ways.

A few minutes later he drives past, and then again and pulls over in front of me. "Want a coffee?" he says. I stupidly invite him to my house which is just round the corner.

Anyway, cut a long story short he says he is mad about my body etc etc and I tell him I'm not interested - he is in a relationship etc. I'm not sure what to do now, feeling awkward - he starts kissing me and touching my bum, and, why why why??? I did't feel able to say no and we have sex in my kitchen. It was crap. I now feel like crap.
He leaves saying see you tomorrow, like he wants to do it again, how about wearing hold-ups etc (YUK). I say I'm busy tomorrow.

How on earth do I make myself feel OK, what a total idiot I am. I am so embarrassed.

I am heterosexual. I like men very much and I live my life assuming that the large majority are thoughtful, sentient, kind human beings who can control their behaviour. I do live in the 'real world' having lived safely and happily in inner cities for 18 years. I have had worries for my personal safety at times and have acted accordingly to the specific circumstances but modify my day to day behaviour for an imaginary risk? No.

I'm going to bring up my son to take responsibility for HIS behaviour. I won't bring him up to believe that if a girl gets drunk or wears a bikini top then he can do as he pleases.

I don't really get the speeding car analogy. Men are not unthinking machinery. A penis is not an out of control Ferrari.

Tondelayo,

Cars don't actually drive themselves.

More to the point, I will bring up my children not to be thieves. I will also tell them that bad people exist and to not walk late at night with large quantities of cash on display. That in no way excuses the thief.

With respect to the OP and her "shag" though, she at best gave mixed messages and, in reality, probably wanted it to happen but regretted it afterwards. She says the sex was awful as it was only "2 mins of penetrative sex". The implication was that she wanted it to last longer, not that she did not want it to happen at all.

I think we are agreed that no matter what a woman does, she does not deserve to be raped.

We are also agree, with the exception of dittany that the OP was not raped, not least because she herself says she was not.

However there are personal safety issues that we need to be aware of.

No one on this thread would say to their 18yo dd "Don't waste money on a taxi home, walk home alone at 2am through the backstreets and alleyways in your sparkly mini dress instead."

We tell our children to get taxis home, to stay in a group and not to do anything that would leave them in a vulnerable position.

Yes we should be able to do, wear and behave how we want to, but there are arseholes out there. The Suzy Lamplugh Trust who campaigned hard for free rape alarms for women didn't do so to deny women their freedom, but to keep them safe because they realise that there are dangers out there.

Now everyone has a different idea of risk and the one I gave above is an obvious one. I personally would say that inviting a man that you do not know, who has been leering at you in the school playground, into your home whilst you are alone is a risk. If the OP had been raped that would not have been her fault at all. However she can in future minimise the risks of any potential attack and any feelings of vulnerability by taking personal safety a little more seriously.

I'm still here, FWIW. A bit chastened, but still here.

I'm old. I remember "Whatever we wear, wherever we go, yes means yes, no means no."

I remember years later, "Reclaim the Night".

I tell my children (of both genders) to be aware of where they are; to be aware of whom is around them. I tell them to exercise caution in drinking. I tell them to be careful about http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Drink-spiking/Pages/Introduction.aspx?url=Pages/what-is-it.aspx accepting drinks

I've told them if mugged (only my dd has been) to hand over the valuables.

It's why I've told them they must meet new mates in public places; why they must make sure their friends get home safely.

Why? Because I don't believe in their rights to go where they want and do what they want? No, because I want them to be safe. Why? because I'm one of their parents.

I've advised them both not to have sex with someone you pick up when drunk...

I told my son this stuff. I told my daughter this stuff. I'm pleased one of the posters wasn't hurt in Moss Side; I was robbed in Hulme; chased in Ordsall and threatened in Ardwick. Despite being cautious and careful. I don't look like a victim.

I still don't see how saying manage your risks is anything other than common sense.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf

I'm going to bring up my son to take responsibility for HIS behaviour. I won't bring him up to believe that if a girl gets drunk or wears a bikini top then he can do as he pleases.

Well done; that's what I did.
Sadly for my daughter not every man is like our sons.

That's why you give them the other advice...

Hear hear. Some people are lucky and some are not. It's all about managing risks as you said OneMoreChap.

Not all men are rampant rapists and not all women are total floozies. Men should treat women with respect and dignity even if she doesn't act like it. I would also say that women shouldn't have casual sex whilst drunk either, although I know many have, just because that puts the man in a vulnerable position then. If she wakes up and decides that she would never have shagged him in a million Sundays but just has - does she have grounds for rape then? It's a grey area sometimes and the only way to resolve that is to teach our kids to respect themselves and respect others.

My speeding car analogy was not meant to imply that men can't stop themselves - I have never believed that. What I meant to say was that people may have the right to do something, but it might not be a wise thing to do.

So don't step into the road when you see a car speeding towards you. Don't walk around a shanty town in Rio flaunting your diamond rings. Don't get blind drunk on a night out. You might have a right to do these things, but you'd be pretty stupid.

If you are the victim of a crime, of course it is the criminal who is at fault, and of course the rape victim in Scarlett's story was not asking for it, and of course a crime cannot be excused by the victim's stupidity (or drunkenness).

But you can try to protect yourself against crime by not doing stupid things in the first place.

You see, I come at it from a different angle.

It's not our behaviour we should change.

It's the behaviour of those who endanger our safety.

I think we convict and treat rapists, sex offenders and those who commit. We take all forms of sex assault and sexual harassment seriously. When there is a case of rape we should look at the behaviour of the rapist and not that of his victim.

I think the blame the victim mentality in this country is disgusting. A couple of years ago there was a COI ad saying that you should not leave your laptop on your table when you go to bed at night in case a thief climbed into your garden, peered through the window and saw it. I mean FFS. What about upping our appalling burglary conviction rate instead?

Walking on the streets where you live at any time should NOT BE a personal safety risk.

Besides, how do you know your daughter is not safer on the streets than in a black cab (the london cab rapist was licensed) or with one of those well spoken 18 year old boys in her group?

All are risks. Miniscule ones it should be pointed out.

Another one of the reasons for tell kids "Don't shag while drunk"

It's also why I told my son if he's taking someone to his home to make sure her friends know where she is... make sure your friends get home safely.

As we're all agreed I'm off to cook tea! :)

By the way OneMoreChap - you sound lovely and you are bringing your children up well. If the OP bumped into more men like you these situations wouldn't happen. Thanks for sticking around, I hope your daughter is proud of her dad!

I've told them if mugged (only my dd has been) to hand over the valuables.

I didn't think that I would ever find myself in agreement with dittany, but she's not the only one that thinks OP was raped, I do to. She told him that she wasn't interested because he was in a relationship. That was his cue to stop. He didn't.

So much feminism gets right up my nose to be honest but dittany is right, she really, really is on this one.

I spoke too quickly! Dittany I said I came across your 'type'. You do come across as a man hater who tells women what they should do, think and feel. Sorry, but I'm not the only one who has said that and I suspect many more think it but can't be arsed getting into an argument with you. I think you need to see to that chip on your shoulder, with all due respect.

Tonde - I can see where you are coming from, but unfortunately the world itself is not a safe place. It's not limited to just THIS society. Whilst the world is populated by humans there will be personal safety issues.

Some of what you said is just the police trying to lower statistics in their area. It does no harm to alert people to some of the crime tactics used by thieves.
If I had known some of these tactics I may have saved myself the trouble of being burgled. But our tools were openly laid out in the garden, which they then used to break into our conservatory. I had left the back door keys in the lock, so all they had to do was smash the glass panel and grab the keys.

If I had taken just a few simple precautions I may just have prevented myself from the trauma of a break-in. So I'm always grateful for tips and advice on how to stay safe.

A lot of it is common sense.

Again Dittany you are not reading properly. Btino didn't say you said those things, she said *Dittany's type" said those things.

She did not "make up shit" about you.

Sorry x posted!

Thelibster,

If she was raped, why did she complain about the sex being bad as it was 2 minutes of penetrative sex?

Karma,

I think that women have to give a fair indication that they do not want sex for it to be considered rape, at the time the sex actually takes place. She invited him into her home, clearly expecting some kind of intimacy. Then she changed her mind again and said no thanks but then she again appeared to change her mind when she kissed him back and put her hands on his body. At this point, I think he could assume consent was being given. If she froze but did not fight him, I think you may have a point, but that is not how the OP described it.

Again dittany, we are saying that she took a risk in inviting someone she did not know, who had been leering at her, into her house whilst she was alone.

Many people were saying that this was a perfectly normal thing to do. It isn't. I note you never answered my question by the way, would you have done so?

The OP asked him back AFTER he had told her about his relationship. So you can forgive him for thinking she was interested, which she had earlier stated that she was as she found him cute and had made enquiries about him.

When he kissed her, she did not say no, she did not freeze or have an out of body experience, she participated in what was going on. It was quick, uneventful and she regretted it afterwards. Hardly rape.

OH FGS. Let's forget about Moss Side. It's just a suburb where people live. The biggest victims of violence there are young black men. Also the biggest perps. Go figure. It's not the wild west where women are pulled into bushes as they walk around and I just was too lucky or fugly to attract any rapists.

This is what happens when you start to demonise people and places. You totally lose sight of actual risk.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf what?

She'd be far safer in a licenced hackney than a gypsy cab

What well spoken 18 year old boys? She no longer lives in the UK, most of her mates are much older than 18. She's an extreme sport nut. [And yes, we've discussed that too, but since I used to skydive I haven't much grounds to talk]

Yeah, I'd agree that we should make rapists change their behaviours and we should catch more burglars.

Personally, I am coming round to the idea of chemical castration for rapists, and I'm not sure what else we can do to burglars, as when you lock 'em up they just become better burglars.

Until that day happens (and I look forward to seeing it happen) I'll tell my kids to be careful, and not leave my laptop where so unreformed villain can deprive me of it.

Tonde - I don't think anyone's mentioned it since? We've moved on. It was just an example. Shall we say Birmingham city centre if that makes you feel better?

You poor thing! He sounds awful - get the feeling you went along with him out of embarassment, if that makes sense.

Try and put it down to a mistake and, hopefully, learn from it, and never ever invite a man back unless you know him VERY well. If you HAD just gone out for a coffee with him you wouldn't be in this position now.

Turn it from regret into a life-lesson and tell yourself everyone makes mistakes - don't allow it to make you feel shitty about yourself - why should you - you just made a mistake after all.

BTino that might be me. I mentioned some other Manchester suburbs I'd been in. I had my pocket picked outside the Nile club in Moss Side 35 years ago :) [but I was buying draw so I took that as a lesson]

Larry,

She may have wanted some "intimacy" when she invited him in although she doesn't say she did. I doubt very much she wanted sex at 9am straight after the school run. Whatever she wanted or did not want, she told him that she wasn't interested. That's clear rejection, which he chose to ignore.

She says very clearly that she had sex out of "politeness" after he pestered her, not because she really wanted it. She also has a fear of confrontation after having suffered violence at the hands of her ex-husband.

A decent man would have heard the "sorry, not interested" and stopped straight there. The fact that he didn't and she complied doesn't excuse him.

Just like the mugger isn't excused because I took my watch off myself and gave it to him.