Awful sex mistake - the shame :-(

[h20]

Sorry about this, but I have just had the most bizarre experience and I don't know what to make of it. I drop my sons off at School in the mornings and have noticed one of the dads of a kid in my eldest's class looking at me a lot since last summer. I often see him staring over, and have noticed him watching my arse as I walk away because I can see him reflected in a glass door etc.

He finally came up to speak to me last week and we made awkward small talk. I am thinking he is cute - not my usual type, but cute. He is a coach at a local sports club. I ask someone that knows him at work what he is like and the report back is positive. I am half thinking he might ask me out.

Anyway, this morning I have the day off and as I leave the school grounds he is there. We have a quick chat and I tell him I am off work today and tomorow. He asks me about my husband, I tell him I am divorced. I say why doesn't he bring his son to play one day. He say's 'I don't think my partner would like it much', but maybe have coffee some time? We go our separate ways.

A few minutes later he drives past, and then again and pulls over in front of me. "Want a coffee?" he says. I stupidly invite him to my house which is just round the corner.

Anyway, cut a long story short he says he is mad about my body etc etc and I tell him I'm not interested - he is in a relationship etc. I'm not sure what to do now, feeling awkward - he starts kissing me and touching my bum, and, why why why??? I did't feel able to say no and we have sex in my kitchen. It was crap. I now feel like crap.
He leaves saying see you tomorrow, like he wants to do it again, how about wearing hold-ups etc (YUK). I say I'm busy tomorrow.

How on earth do I make myself feel OK, what a total idiot I am. I am so embarrassed.

h20, I have every sympathy with you. It's happened to me too, and there's no way I would call it rape either; that would utterly devalue real rape which I have also experienced.

Personally, I would grab the bull by the horns, as it were, and next time I saw him wander over and say hi, that was a bit of a waste of time wasn't it, just want you to know I'm really not interested, does your partner know and do you do that often?

More specifically to everyone else, there is something on this thread that is confusing me a little: OneMoreChap suggested that women should manage their risk which brought about an explosion of protests. I don't understand why, surely we all (women and men) should manage risk - we don't walk across the road without looking first do we? He specified women in this context, where it is more relevant to women. I don't really understand what there was to object to about what he said.

Because inviting a fellow parent for coffee at 9am is not a risk behaviour.

Because the onus is ALWAYS put on women to modify THEIR behaviour to prevent being raped.

We are told to wear certain clothes, to not walk in certain areas, to carry a rape alarm or keys between our fingers, not to take unlicensed mini-cabs, not to give out the wrong signals, not to kiss or show interest or affection, not to talk to strangers, not to open the door to men, not to speak to men in bars, not to get drunk.

We have so internalised that we are responsible for the actions of (a few) men that when something DOES happen - it must be our fault, mustn't it? We must have not obeyed one of the rules.

Lots to tell my kids here.

On a personal safety note: I would never dream of inviting a man I hardly knew into my house for coffee. Particularly when I knew he was interested in me unless I was also interested in him.

Everyone has a different idea of risk, but it's only sensible to take precautions, both men and women, to ensure that you aren't putting yourself in any danger. All the feminists on this thread who go on about women being free to dress how they like, go where they like and do what they like aren't living in the real world. This isn't a Disney fairytale where Prince Charming saves the day. It's a cruel world out there and we have to look after ourselves, which means taking sensible precautions and I shall be telling both my son and my daughter never to put themselves in a vulnerable situation.

There are way too many men-haters on this thread that have torn the only man with enough balls to contribute and I think he contributed really well and made some excellent points, but unfortunately came up against the pack of wolves who gleefully egged each other on.

Those women are probably worse than sexist men. Because they don't listen to other women's views, you are either for them or against them, there is no grey area with them. They tell women how they should feel and actively encourage women to take risks by the dubious argument that they just should be able to. Well hey, I should be able to walk up and down Moss Side in a bikini on a Saturday night but unfortunately this shitty society dictates that if I did I would most likely be attacked. Same if a man did it in his undies.

What we should be able to do as free women and what we can actually do are very different things and encouraging women to cry rape every two minutes will not change society.

What will change society is the way we bring our children up, to respect themselves and each other. That means respecting someone's decision even if you don't agree with it.

Inviting into your home a complete stranger with whom your only contact has been noticing that he checks out your ass is risky behavior and not only re rape. He could be a thief, mentally disturbed creep, or a serial killer (may have watched too much Criminal Minds).

I hope you are not teaching your DDs to bring home all types of strangers from the street, because "onus should not be on women to modify their behavior" or some such.

X-post Btino.

Great posts Cote and BTino

I am sick off "feminist" telling me what I should think, wear, do. I don't get told by my DH or any other man how I should behave, so why the hell should I listen to it coming from someone living in a perfect cloud cuckoo land world.

I would never invite a man round for coffee, knowing he fancied me, it might be wrong that we don't have the "freedom" to do it, but that is the world we live in. I wouldn't put myself at risk just because I should beable to.

I haven't read all the posts so sorry if I'm repeating something already said and please ignore. I need to state that I do not count myself as a feminist and often get so riled up by the opinions of some people vis a vis who's responsibility it is to seek/give consent in these circumstances on the feminist threads, which is why I don't visit them any more.

However, in this case, you told him that you weren't interested as he is in a relationship. So to hell with, "I didn't feel able to say no", you already had said no! He just ignored you.

What you do about it from here on in is entirely up to you of course and I'm not going to encourage you one way or the other. Just be certain that it wasn't your fault, you didn't ask for it, even if you did invite him in for coffee, nothing wrong with that. I invite loads of people round for coffee, male and female, doesn't mean I want to shag any of them!

I hope you feel better soon. Have a very un-mn ((hug))

Who's the man hater? The ones who live their life assuming that all men are potentially serial killers, thieves or mentally disturbed and curtail their behaviour accordingly. Or the ones who expect men as a rule to behaved in a civilised and respectful manner and are surprised and concerned when they don't?

BTW BTino - I lived in Moss Side (Lloyd St) for 4 years and walked around at all times of night, often in short skirts. Guess what? Nothing happened.

There are plenty of examples of people saying women should beable to wear and behave however they like. I do not agree with that, and I will not be told by another woman that I am wrong for thinking the way I do.

There were two posters on this thread that suggested that h20 wear jeans and a jumper to school..

I did at that seeing as they were the ones debating the fact of whether h20 had been raped.

dittany here's the thing:

OP may have issues with self esteem. However the average person on the street is not to know that - agreed?

So when a man, who you do not know and who has been checking out your arse in the school playground, asks to go for coffee - would you invite him back to your house? Would you?

Can we not also presume that this same man, who does not know the OP either, after making it clear to OP that he fancies her and after telling her about his relationship, who is then invited to her house for coffee may assume that she is interested?

So, there he is in her house, alone with her. Ok, she says she isn't interested because he's in a relationship, but she knew that before she invited him in right? So he tries it on and she responds by kissing him back and touching him. She doesn't say no, she doesn't freeze, she doesn't turn away.

Ok, he may be a total creep, but I hardly think that the above would count as rape.

Now this whole situation with said creep could have been avoided if a) OP didn't have issues with self esteem and told him to get lost. Or b) not invited him back as soon as she knew he was in a relationship.

As for taking risks. I'll ask you again Dittany, if you caught a man eyeing up your arse in the school playground time after time, then he asks to go for coffee, would you invite him back to your house where you would be alone with him? If not, why not?

Good for you Tonde. Hurrah.

I'll remember to tell my daughter to hell with personal safety, she has the right to wear what she wants, get pissed and puke in the street if she wants, to hang around the streets at night if she wants and even to invite strange men into her house for coffee if she wants and not expect a single thing to happen.

Just like it is every mans right to be able to go to an opposing football teams stand and shout for his own team without getting his head kicked in.

He should be able to do that just as every women should be able to wear little skirts and bra tops without men leering at them. But it doesn't happen in practice so do grow up and think about what you are saying.

They do have those rights BTino. Thanks for coming round to my point of view.

Yeah and I bet that's what you tell your kids too.

I'll quote my last line back at you "But it doesn't happen in practice so do grow up and think about what you are saying."

Yeah, in a pink Barbie world inhabited by unicorns you can do all of those things.

Tonde they may have rights but it isn't always safe to exercise those rights.

Two people behave badly. An attached lech invites himself in for "coffee" and the OP decides to go for it, after pre-excusing herself for sleeping with a married man by saying "on no, no, we mustn't, you are attached" before stroking his body and kissing him. The OP then regrets the shag because it only lasted two minutes and did nothing for her.

Well, these things happen and I think the OP acknowledges that. You feel crap afterwards and then move on. You try to analyse why you did it but it is tough to analyse sexual attraction and behaviour caused by it in a logical manner.

But, those who suggest rape, no way. The definition of rape is not unwanted sex, it is of someone continuing to have sex with someone else KNOWING that they do not want it (or being in a position where they should have known). If, as Dittany suggests above, it were the former, you could be egging someone on and moaning with pleasure but subconsciously hating every minute, and that would be rape. Thankfully (for all of us), that is not the case.

We can then get into the debate about whether people should ask for permission to have sex. However, I do not know a single man who has ever explicitly asked or a single woman (aside from anonymous posters on MN) who would seriously expect or want a man to ask permission.

Of course they have those rights BT! Would you tell your children that those acts are some kind of an invitation to be raped? What fucked up views you are passing on.

Are you the poster upthread who said OP had consented to sex by asking him in for coffee?

The mind boggleses.

Forget it QLB, I came across her and Dittany's type in college. They told me how I should think, feel and act and if I disagreed with them then I was betraying my sex. They were the ones saying that all women are born lesbians but were made heterosexual by society. Having sex with men is denying your true feelings for women apparently and every time a man penetrates a woman he is stabbing her with his penis in an act of violence.

Yeah, I had all of that thrown at me by women whose chips on their shoulders were so huge they could be seen from space.

Tell you what, you go ahead and do and act the way you want to and we'll go our own ways. That way everyone's happy right?

boggles even,

or maybe stick with boggleses

No Scarlett I'm not. I'm saying that men and women must take responsibility for their own personal safety. You wouldn't walk around dark streets on your own in an unfamiliar place dressed in knickers and a bra because you know it isn't safe to do so.

We may have those rights, but we also have ultimate responsbility for ourselves and our safety. Going out of your way to increase your risk is plain stupid.

Yes but then only person at fault is the rapist? Regardless of what she is wearing please tell me you agree with that?

Not at all related to OP, sorry but you know my friend was involved in a case where a girl was subjected to the most horrific rape and ordeal. She was drunk and leaving a club hitched a lift with a guy who kept her hostage for hours and really brutally raped/ assaulted her. Despite her injuries, the defence angle was that she was a willing participant, after all that she went through it took a lot of convincing that this girl wasn't compliant because of what she wore and the misplaced trust she had in someone she thought was helping her out.

I think that is fucked and I think we need to dispel these myths about rape, regardless of how people feel about feminism this is a simple humanist issue.

I agree that men and women must take responsibility for their own safety.

If you are standing by a green pedestrian light and there is a car coming towards you at full speed, you don't step into the road do you - even though it is your right to step into the road. You might be right but you would also be dead.

As to the OP, of course you were not raped, of course you feel bad now, it happens. Just tell him it was a mistake, you are not interested, and you do not want it to happen again. He may whine and say his partner doesn't understand him... but be firm, polite and definite.

God BTino, feel sorry for you having to put up with that shit.

They should stop worring about us hetrosexuals and our happiness and maybe just concentrate on their own?

Scarlett I am so sorry about your friend, but did I read that right, she hitched a lift???
Again it comes back to not living in cloud cuckoo land and being a little bit savvy and realising that it could be dangerous to hitch a lift?

I hope the driver was found guilty by the way.