My father (married 25 years) frequently "secretly" using gay porn

[TotallyFrozen]

Hi all, I am so grateful for the name change feature on this. I am posting here because hopefully there are many women on here who would be in a similar-length marriage to my mother and it is her welfare that I am concerned about here. Sorry this will be long-ish.

In a nutshell: My father is an unlikeable and difficult person. He rarely helps around the house, usually disagrees with whatever is said seemingly for the sake of being difficult, gets very angry and defensive if anyone criticises him (screams, makes threats towards you, threatens to leave), and spends his days rotating between sleeping, eating, watching TV, and using the computer. Unfortunately the feeling that I and my sibling have towards him is contempt, even though we wish we could have a good relationship with him. He has some good points (financial contributions, nice towards our pets). He has a history of falling out with others but always blames them, and has few friends or people he gets along with. The "narcissistic personality disorder" description rings very true for him (and I say this as someone who works in the mental health field). This description is basically "the tip of the iceberg".

My mother, whilst an imperfect human like all of us, is a kind and caring woman who is very selfless and giving.

The problem: My father is constantly looking up gay porn on the home computer. He has been doing this for probably 13 years, though my sibling and I only became certain of it around 2-3 years ago. Previously we attributed things we found (videos/ pictures hidden away in folders, constant viruses on the computer, etc.) to viruses, etc. He has been doing this since we were both children. Once we realised what was happening, we decided to install K9 (a child internet protection program) on all our home computers to at least stop the behaviour in the house. I know that there may be an argument against trying to control someone's use of porn but considering his horrible behaviour at home, we felt that it was awful of him to disrespect my mum in her home in this way whilst using her for her domestic services. I am OK with being criticised for this decision and would be interested in differing perspectives. My mum is not very good with technology and has no inkling of his behaviour. He thinks he is hiding his tracks, but he is not as good as he thinks he is with technology either.

Anyway, increasingly I am realising that installing programs that prevent him from accessing these sites constantly (i.e., every night once everyone has gone to bed, during the day when no-one is behind him) is only addressing a symptom rather than the core problem. He is now searching for images on Google images and on social networking type-sites which the internet protection program cannot block without blocking ALL such sites. It really angers me that he uses and puts down my mum during the day, then goes behind her back and does this most nights. My post is prompted by the fact that he did this last night and didn't even bother trying to cover his tracks by deleting his history. Is he WANTING to be discovered? Initially I was shocked finding this out, but I've now had 3 years to become semi-desensitised to it all.

My mum describes him as "a good man, though he has his problems" and has spoken in the past about how she is happy to be part of a couple and be financially secure. Most of his behaviour, she has learnt to "let go", because he gets so nasty when criticised. It is like we all tiptoe around him. They have been married around 25 years. I'm quite sure they have no sex life anymore (I say this because he sometimes goes off for "massages" twice a week or so - they seemed legitimate but I'm aware that gay porn might not be all that he's seeking out and I wouldn't want my mum's health at risk).

My question is: What do I do? His seeking out of gay porn is pervasive and frequent; before I put K9 on our computers he was doing it constantly and just minimising the screen when someone would walk past. I haven't brought up the topic, just passive-aggressively installed K9 and refused to remove it when he asked me to. We got some new computers and he installed K9 first so he could have control over what he viewed, and was watching all the porn again. Luckily I was able to hack into it, uninstall it, and put in a new version of K9 that I have control over. It is like this ridiculous passive-aggressive dance back and forth between us; however I do not feel it is my right to potentially destroy my parents' marriage by publicising what's going on.

I'm basically wondering, from women in long marriages, what you would want if this were your husband, and what issues might be important for me to consider? Should I remain quiet, talk to my father privately, tell my mum - what?

Butvt your mother is her own responsibility not yours. She's a grown adult and you actually have bo responsibility, nor power, to change this situation.

Can I suggest you look up covert incest ... It sounds very much like the dynamic in your house.

You don't want them to be financially worse off , but you don't want them to continue in this way ... Lose lose scenario ... You need to remove yourself.

Sorry , meant for op, but response to vt s post.

Dittany,

That is an extraordinarily fluid definition of "child". I certainly do no think that it is the one the NSPCC (which you chose to quote) had in mind.

At what age should an adult take responsibility for their own life? Never? I would not describe a 23/24 year old as a young adult on the verge of becoming independent. I would describe them as independent adults who should have made the break from their parents several years ago. Surely, as a feminist, you do not condone the OP's continuing financial dependence on her parents?

Time to move out and get a job, even if only part time to fund her studies.

I've been following this thread from the beginning and I wondered how long it would take dittany to come on and say it was sexual abuse ............ it took 8 pages - I'm really surprised it took her so long - do you have a fixation with sexual abuse dittany ?!

Thinking about you? Not really !! Just when I starting reading the OP your name and soapbox jumped out at me.

Its the continual drone of sexual abuse that gets boring after a while. (((( )))) !!

TF I of course understand that for many people the term domestic abuse is synonymous with physical violence, and so for that reason many women never recognise their own situations as being abusive. Also, when someone has lived in a situation for a long time they become desensitised to it, so things that would seem quite major to others may seem insignificant to them. But domestic abuse actually covers a whole range of behaviours, and emotional abuse is considered every bit as serious as physical abuse to those working in domestic abuse service provision.

Of course you know your own mother best, you know what she would and would not accept, and will have a good idea of the type of support and advice that she may respond to. That's fine.

But I have worked both as a refuge support worker and on the community support team for Women's Aid, and I feel it is important for me to reiterate to you that the situation you are describing to us here is one of serious domestic abuse. There has been violence and threats of suicide towards you when you were a little girl. There is very much the threat of violence now. The entire family is living in fear of your fathers verbally abusive outbursts and is walking on eggshells. And then there is the matter of your father leaving virtual porn around both now and when you were a child. This is sexually abusive behaviour. Your father knows full well what he is doing.

I am so sorry you are in this situation and being made to feel so responsible. The fact that you are in your twenties is neither here nor there. You are still the child in this dynamic. I understand the conflicting sense of loyalties as well - after all, this man, despite everything, is still your father. I can't tell you what to do. But I do want to stress to you that I feel you and the entire family are in a dangerous situation with an unpredictable man. Whatever course of action you take, keep yourself safe.

I really do wish you all the best.

There is a really dysfunctional dynamic in OP's house and she's receiving some very harsh advice here, along the lines of 'leave your mother to it', 'grow up move out'. That's really heartless and unhelpful. She's a student. She's all caught up in her family's dynamic. These aren't flat mates or dodgy exes she can cut loose without a backward glance. For all their faults this is her family. What does she tell her mother if she does move out?

It's an incredibly difficult situation. I lived with a man with NPD, and they do know how to rule a roost.

DIttany you are way off beam here.
I am sorry but your thinking is very skewd if you think what the OP describes amounts to sexual abuse.

The OP is an adult. We are all children of someone and always will be- whether they are alive or dead. But being a child, ends legally at 18.

The OP's sensibilities are bing offended by her father's rather distasteful behaviour. But this is completely subjective. She finds it offensive- others might not.

I don't know your history but from what others have posted it appears you have either some experience or whatever in abuse. Just don't think you can apply that to any situation in which a parent, their offspring (I am not going to say "child") and images of a sexual nature all present.

ditanny covert incest is not always sexual although it can be (and it's a well known phenomenon).

It's about parents of children, including adult children, who co-erce them into taking adult responsibilities.

I don't personally feel there is sexual abuse going in in the ops situation. It's more about power.

I think if the father is using the computer he owns and pays for to look at porn, that's his business. I think he and the mother are in a symbiotic relationship that is unhealthy.

I think the daughter needs to find her own living space and let her parents get on with their own choices.

Have name changed for this: My ex-dh was obsessively looking at porn and went to prostitutes for years (about 15 years) and I never suspected. I'm not stupid either - maybe naive and I don't know much about computers.

I wish someone had told me earlier because then I would have a choice whether this was the kind of relationship I wanted - and also not had my health put at risk. Also when I found out, his behaviour was finally understandable. I stopped blaming myself & letting him blame me that he had to go out so often (reason = I was such an awful person). It was like a cloud had lifted & I could see clearly again.

So your mum might not know - I think it is possible & then I think the truth being revealed is a good thing. Just maybe not from you (their daughter) - is there someone you trust - a family friend - that you can confide in? It must feel horrible to be complicit in your dad's secret, I really feel for you there.

But you mentioned that you saw the porn walking past the room. Do you think your mum would have seen it also then? Maybe she does know and had made her choice already? (Stay in unhappy marriage for the status it gives her).

Either way, the other posters that have said this is their marriage to sort out, I think are correct. Even though you may not agree with their choices. Its not healthy for you to be so involved - though it sounds like that is difficult when it is so blatant.

There are many reasons women stay in abusive relationships - fear, a desire to keep the family together, financial dependence. A lot of the time a womans confidence has just been so completely trashed by the abuse she simply cannot see how she could possibly manage alone.

None of this means that a woman is asking for, or happy to be abused.

An abusive relationship is NOT A "symbiotic" one hairyfairylights implying the woman must be getting something out of it or why would she stay? What an offensive thing to say.

The OP is an adult, not a child. To use the argument that 'everyone is a child of someone' is irrelevant. The OPs father is someone's child too. So what?

OP - move out asap. Of course youre going to find it a struggle financially as youre very sheltered from living independantly right now, but youre an adult, you shouldnt be living in your parents pockets at this age. Your father is not doing anything illegal and its THEIR relationship anyway. The best thing you can do is move out and let them work their own relationship out

I do think quite a lot of these responses are assuming that people are always capable of making good choices in relationships which is just not true. I don't think it has been exactly established that the dad is abusive to the mum - it sounds very likely though. I think it needs more investigation, part of the problem is that the op is having to imagine that there may be more going on and adding up other suspicious behaviours. Personally, hard as it would be, I would have to find out what was actually going on and encourage my dad to take responsibility for himself if he is having extra marital affairs/is a repressed homosexual. I would also tell my mother anything she needed to know if he refused. Abusive, lying relationships shouldn't be actively protected...

Actually, putting someone in fear of violence and assault is illegal, as is exposing children to pornography, which has clearly happened in the past and is continuing to occur even though the op is now an adult.

That maybe but the problem we are being asked to help with is what the op does about the worry that her mum is living in an abusive relationship with her dad. I'm not sure there is any benefit to telling the mum anything until she is sure what is actually going on and if there is something, that her dad won't take responsibility for it himself. If repressed sexuality is causing emotional abuse it is slightly different to someone who is emotionally abusive as a result of their childhood. If you deal with the source of the problem, the repression, it can really make a difference to the quality of the relationships. Not to minimise the actual past of the relationships at all but it is slightly different and no less scary/unpredictable to deal with...

Dittany- just because I do not happen to agree with your view that this is "abuse" doe s not mean that I hold stereotypical views/narrow views of abuse. I am old enough and intelligent enouh to know abuse can be more subtle.

I think too many people have got too carried away with this thread.
If you take it down to its basics:

-adult "child" living at home finds out that father looks at gay porn. ( not illegal BTW)

-Installs nannyware to try to stop this.(begs the question why- not her business -she may find it offensive but it is her parent's house)

-Gets into a double bluff game where she and her father both know what each other is doing but neither speaks of it.

-Adult child wants to tell mother ( possibly) to "protect" her, give her a reason to leave the marriage, or maybe simply use it as a type of "pay-back" for the poor behaviour of her father.

The mother has not given any indication that she is unhappy, or wants to leave, or anything.

Curiousnamechange, repressed sexuality does not cause abuse. Neither does negative childhood experiences.

Both have the potential to be exacerbating factors, but the real cause of any type of abuse is the desire to control and dominate ones partner and family, and the underlying belief the perpetrator holds that he (and it almost always is a he) has a perfect entitlement to do just that.

"An abusive relationship is NOT A "symbiotic" one hairyfairylights implying the woman must be getting something out of it or why would she stay? What an offensive thing to say."

Bollocks. The OP has said that her mother gets financial stability out of it, among other things. Read the posts more carefully before rushing in.

Do you understand the term 'symbiotic' (it's another word for co-dependence).

In fact the term applies specificially to unhealthy relationships.

"The term covert incest (also known as emotional incest or psychic incest) is used by some mental health professionals to describe a relationship between parents and children that is sexualized and expects a child to fulfill adult emotional roles, though without actual incest. Proponents of the concept describe the relationships as harmful and one-sided, and similar to a relationship between adult sexual partners, but without the type of physical contact, that would be considered as child sexual abuse. 'Over and over again, a child is invited to take care of the parents' feelings...the incest may never be physically consummated, and yet the psychological implications for the child may be nearly as severe in later life'[1]."

I think this is quite clearly what could be going on here.

The OP needs to get away from this situation, for her own sake.

She can then, if she chooses, inform her mother, but take no further part in it as her mother has to make her own decisions.

It is actually the father's business whether he looks at porn, but he should, of course, not reveal that to the adult children.