My father (married 25 years) frequently "secretly" using gay porn

[TotallyFrozen]

Hi all, I am so grateful for the name change feature on this. I am posting here because hopefully there are many women on here who would be in a similar-length marriage to my mother and it is her welfare that I am concerned about here. Sorry this will be long-ish.

In a nutshell: My father is an unlikeable and difficult person. He rarely helps around the house, usually disagrees with whatever is said seemingly for the sake of being difficult, gets very angry and defensive if anyone criticises him (screams, makes threats towards you, threatens to leave), and spends his days rotating between sleeping, eating, watching TV, and using the computer. Unfortunately the feeling that I and my sibling have towards him is contempt, even though we wish we could have a good relationship with him. He has some good points (financial contributions, nice towards our pets). He has a history of falling out with others but always blames them, and has few friends or people he gets along with. The "narcissistic personality disorder" description rings very true for him (and I say this as someone who works in the mental health field). This description is basically "the tip of the iceberg".

My mother, whilst an imperfect human like all of us, is a kind and caring woman who is very selfless and giving.

The problem: My father is constantly looking up gay porn on the home computer. He has been doing this for probably 13 years, though my sibling and I only became certain of it around 2-3 years ago. Previously we attributed things we found (videos/ pictures hidden away in folders, constant viruses on the computer, etc.) to viruses, etc. He has been doing this since we were both children. Once we realised what was happening, we decided to install K9 (a child internet protection program) on all our home computers to at least stop the behaviour in the house. I know that there may be an argument against trying to control someone's use of porn but considering his horrible behaviour at home, we felt that it was awful of him to disrespect my mum in her home in this way whilst using her for her domestic services. I am OK with being criticised for this decision and would be interested in differing perspectives. My mum is not very good with technology and has no inkling of his behaviour. He thinks he is hiding his tracks, but he is not as good as he thinks he is with technology either.

Anyway, increasingly I am realising that installing programs that prevent him from accessing these sites constantly (i.e., every night once everyone has gone to bed, during the day when no-one is behind him) is only addressing a symptom rather than the core problem. He is now searching for images on Google images and on social networking type-sites which the internet protection program cannot block without blocking ALL such sites. It really angers me that he uses and puts down my mum during the day, then goes behind her back and does this most nights. My post is prompted by the fact that he did this last night and didn't even bother trying to cover his tracks by deleting his history. Is he WANTING to be discovered? Initially I was shocked finding this out, but I've now had 3 years to become semi-desensitised to it all.

My mum describes him as "a good man, though he has his problems" and has spoken in the past about how she is happy to be part of a couple and be financially secure. Most of his behaviour, she has learnt to "let go", because he gets so nasty when criticised. It is like we all tiptoe around him. They have been married around 25 years. I'm quite sure they have no sex life anymore (I say this because he sometimes goes off for "massages" twice a week or so - they seemed legitimate but I'm aware that gay porn might not be all that he's seeking out and I wouldn't want my mum's health at risk).

My question is: What do I do? His seeking out of gay porn is pervasive and frequent; before I put K9 on our computers he was doing it constantly and just minimising the screen when someone would walk past. I haven't brought up the topic, just passive-aggressively installed K9 and refused to remove it when he asked me to. We got some new computers and he installed K9 first so he could have control over what he viewed, and was watching all the porn again. Luckily I was able to hack into it, uninstall it, and put in a new version of K9 that I have control over. It is like this ridiculous passive-aggressive dance back and forth between us; however I do not feel it is my right to potentially destroy my parents' marriage by publicising what's going on.

I'm basically wondering, from women in long marriages, what you would want if this were your husband, and what issues might be important for me to consider? Should I remain quiet, talk to my father privately, tell my mum - what?

I have been married ten years but I would still want to know, for sure. Whatever your father is, he could be already putting your mothers health at risk. These massages he goes off for?

I think it's shocking that your father knows you know, he is really putting you in a terrible position. If I was your mother I would want to be shown, by you, some of what he looks at. Then she can decide if she wants to still be married to him.

Horrible for you, just horrible.

Have you spoken to him about it?

Do you and your sibling still live at home? How old are you? I have to say (married 26 years, so similar to your parents; I'm 48, DH is 52) that the idea of either of our DSs (20 and 24) deciding what is done with our computers would infuriate me. I really don't think your parent's relationship has anything to do with you.

But perhaps there's more that I'm not seeing?

He sounds like an unpleasant person, but I can't get past your behaviour I'm afraid. Did you do this off your own bat or did your Mother ask you too?

If she wants to make changes in the relationship then you should support her in doing so, not assume and do it for her.

I'm not sure what it is you're asking either (but that's probably just because it's late and I'm tired!) Would I want to know if my DH was looking at porn in such a way that it was upsetting my DC? Yes, definitely and if he was doing it deliberately he'd be out.

Oh, and I've been with DH almost 24 years, so similar to your parents although probably a lot younger.

Thank you all for your input so far. To answer some questions:

• My father doesn't know I know. I have never explicitly raised this with him. The reason is the way he reacts when criticised. It is like a "narcissistic rage" (screaming, threats, swearing, slamming things, threatening to leave, etc.) and I genuinely don't know how he'd react to something so personal/ embarrassing. He used to be violent towards us as kids. The most upfront I have ever been with him was when he realised I had installed that protection software. I said things like, "Why do you think I did that, is there anything that you can think of that might make you understand why I did that?" but he acted like he didn't know. However, like this morning, he doesn't always hide his tracks so when I opened the internet all these websites were in the "frequently viewed" tab that is immediately visible.

• My mum knows nothing as far as I'm aware. So she hasn't requested anything. I'm not sure what is meant by "do this off your own bat" - i.e., do what? I'm also not sure what is meant by, "If she wants to make changes in the relationship then you should support her in doing so, not assume and do it for her." What changes do you mean?

• Me and my sibling are in our early 20s and live at home. I don't want to be too specific, as this is a pretty uncommon situation, but I am undertaking postgraduate study.

My hands are actually trembling writing about this and my heart is pounding, because I've never sought proper advice before over what to do (except from very close and trusted loved ones). I am scared about doing anything to affect my parents' relationship because I do agree it's none of my business, to some extent. The advice I've received in the past from my partner and sibling is to not say anything. However with the persistent/ escalating behaviour and the small possibility my mum's health is at risk, I feel frozen in what to do.

Oh and thank you for your warm and kind words, perfumeditsawonderfullife. It is a very upsetting and difficult situation to be in.

I understand the hands trembling and heart pounding thing, I sometimes get that when replying to threads here.

I just don't understand why your dad looking at porn when no-one else is around, is anything to do with you? This is an issue for your parents to sort out for themselves; if your mum says she's upset about it (or any other aspect of their relationship), by all means offer whatever support you can, but other than that there's really nothing you can do.

And installing net nannies for a grown man is just... I dunno, ridiculous? Patronising? Insulting? Infantilising? It would absolutely infuriate me if my kids did that to me, and I don't even watch porn!

A friend of mine was in a similar situation so I realise that you must be having a very worrying time. Have you considered moving out? As you say it's none of your business what your father does with his computer. Your parents are doing you a favour by allowing you to live with them now you are an adult and you should respect their privacy.

I have to say that you need to a)look at moving out, and b)leave them to it.

I understand that you feel protective, but this is not your issue to intervene in. At all.

i agree with OLKN.

your dad is looking at porn. that is between him and his wife.

however if i lived at home and this is a family PC i would be pissed off that the sites he used were causing viruses and maybe pop-ups when i needed to use teh pc and i would have to say something upfront to him about it. although i note you say you would eb embarrassed to do so and he would eb agressive if you did.

WRT the 'massages'. do you think he is cheating on your mum? if so and you think she would want to know then i would tell her. if you think she knows and is turning a blind eye or it is an agreement then stay out of it.

I am really surprised at the amount of posters who say this is something you should stay out of. I can only judge for myself, obviously, but if my ds was living with us in his early twenties, whether that seemed the norm or not, if he found gay porn and only my dh could have accessed it, I hope to god he would tell me. I really, truely would want to know, that the man I married was clearly getting his sexual kicks from the opposite sex to me! It's not a small thing. It's massive.

If you're mum is told what you keep finding on the pc, despite putting controls on, then you could leave it at that, see if she pushes for more information. I would hope that your mother is not so worn down by this man that she feels she has no option but to turn a blind eye. What a sad life, to share it with someone who is not even honest with you. At least as her child you can do the right thing and give her the truth, or some of it.

Incidently, if it were my dad, too right I would tell my mother. I would fight lions for my dad, I adore him, but I won't protect a liar, never.

your mum, sorry, not you're

perfumeditsawonderfullife, it seems that the OP's mum doesn't want that information, though.

And it is absolutely not the job of adult children to police the sex lives of their parents.

How can you tell she doesn't want to know though oldlady? I can see that she doesn't like to rock the boat re his temper but how do you know she would not want to know this?
(not trying to be difficult, just see things black and white sometimes)

Already though there is a divide, I am a parent, and i would thank my child for bringing something like this to my attention. I would see this as three adults living together, less than an adult child. If the dh wants to do this, he takes the risk of his adult child finding it.

Of course, the chances are he blows his top and tells op to leave.

perfumeditsawonderfullife, I am far too old to see things in B&W any more. You're doing the OP's mum an injustice if you really think she hasn't a clue, when their two adult DC know. I suspect she knows, and, for whatever reason of her own, is sticking her head in the sand. Or maybe she genuinely doesn't care.

May I ask how old your DC are? Because we've only just got rid of DC1 at 24, and believe me, it's not "three adults living together" - or in our case, four. There are all sorts of odd dynamics that happen when adult children are still at home and subsidised by their parents; this "child thinks it's her business how daddy wanks" is, however, the weirdest I have yet encountered.

I am not deliberately doing the mum an injustice, I am going by the impression i got from op's post. Maybe you're right that she has a clue and doesn't want to know. It seems a sad state of a marriage though, and I know i couldn't live it. But each to their own I agree.

My ds is not even seven yet so I may never know what it's like, I cleared out of my own parents home at 17, never to return!!

I don't see it as her making it her business how he wanks though. I see it as him putting it out there, being careless and not seeming to care when she is asking him about the controls. Thats quite scary. His sex life is his business but he should keep it out of the communal space. He is not even hiding the browsing history, that seems weird to me. If he was leaving porn mags around she would be entitled to say. Whether he is happy she lives there or not is another matter. But she does, she is part of the family and doesn;t want to know what he wanks over. She also doesn;t want to be worried for her mums sexual health.

But I take your point.

he goes for 'massages' twice a week.

married 25 years

unless the mother is a bit dim, she knows. she knows. she knows.

its not your place to police your dad. get your own place.

OP you really need to step out of this...gay porn is not illegal...it has nothing to do with you at all. The ONLY time it would be acceptable to intervene is if you were to find something illegal on the comp.

You are far too involved in your Fathers business and it seems extremely unhealthy to me.

Do we know that his/the PC is communal space, or just space that can be accessed by others? The OP says her mum doesn't use the PC, and it'd be a rare 20-something student that didn't have their own laptop/internet phone.

I also left home at 17, as did DH; having adult DC around for years after that is/was odd to us, and the notion that they'd try policing our internet usage/sex lives (those reading this with small children, and bemoaning their lack of sex life, should try living with adult DC who come and go at all times!) would be, to me, a massive "get the fuck out and support yourself" issue.

Yes agree it's not your pc or your business

Perhaps if the OP and her other adult sibling flew the nest, then her mother would feel better able to tackle what she chose to as regards her private life?

Hi all, again.

Yes I would dearly love to move out. And perhaps you are all right that this is the best course of action - leave him to it (and unfortunately also leave my mum to it). I'm not earning enough at the moment to afford moving out, though. My postgrad course is extremely demanding, i.e., 7am-7pm 6 days a week at least, and it also extends outside conventional semesters (though at the moment I have much more time off - but for instance, today I am working on it). Many of my fellow students are also living at home to try to cope (when I talked about the "unusual situation" I didn't mean the fact that my sibling and I are living at home, that is common for our age in our country). I also work one day a week during semester, though that work is flexible. My program involves clinical/ therapeutic work with people with mental health problems. But I don't know how my mum might feel about all this, as she is much older than me and is in a long marriage - I know that ideas about what is and is not acceptable change after you have been with someone for a long time.

My mum doesn't know anything, I believe, because she struggles to use a computer. It took her a long time to work out how to turn on a computer. They also use separate computers. The evidence is not available to her - I don't think she'd know what a computer history is, for instance. She prefers to read/ spend time with friends, etc., rather than use a computer.

I definitely think it's true that it is "not my business how daddy wanks". If it were just that, I would not have posted. It's the possibility that this is extending into the real world and putting my mum at risk that I am worried about. Also, my personal belief that you should have an accurate idea of who you are married to. I have no idea whether or not he is cheating on my mum - I suspect not, but he's not working so he has a lot of spare time to himself, and does go to these "massages" (but has a physical reason for doing so - it's just their frequency that's odd). I just don't know. I do agree that it's unfair of him, in a family home, to do such a poor job of concealing what he is doing. It puts me and my sibling in a very difficult position that we never asked to be in. If I were my mum, like perfumeditsawonderfullife, I would want to know, but I am also very idealistic and I know many people wouldn't want to know.

Do you think there's any merit in my asking my mum what behaviours she would and wouldn't find acceptable in a relationship, just in a general way, to get an idea of how she might feel about this without telling her why I'm asking?

I also agree that my "net nanny" approach is patronising/ ridiculous/ infantilising, etc. I couldn't think of a better solution to such frequent use of these kinds of websites when the family was "up and about". This whole situation evoked many more intense emotions when it seemed to be getting "rubbed in our faces" so much. I feel as though he just thinks we're stupid and doesn't even bother to properly keep this side of himself private.

To be honest, he is in very poor health and nearing the age when his relatives have passed away naturally. Part of me wonders whether I should just shut up and expect that the problem will go away naturally soon. He is not "all bad" and does do considerate things at times.

RealName, may I ask what your friend ended up doing?

It is the communal computer (the only one that works properly - we have two, my mum uses the other one). I don't have a laptop or internet phone, believe it or not!

Anyway, I do appreciate all these responses. At the moment it seems like the chorus is, "It is not your business" (plus also, "Move out!"). I do feel morally upset about that, though - like I am taking part in deceiving my mother - but I want what is best for her.

I understand you wanting to protect your mum but agree with the others that she knows. My exILs married 40yrs, 6 children and it came out that the fatherhad been having "secret" affairs with men. There is no way that xMiL didn't know. She decided to stay with him, they are in their 70s, it's amazing what people will put up with, but it's their life.