My father (married 25 years) frequently "secretly" using gay porn

[TotallyFrozen]

Hi all, I am so grateful for the name change feature on this. I am posting here because hopefully there are many women on here who would be in a similar-length marriage to my mother and it is her welfare that I am concerned about here. Sorry this will be long-ish.

In a nutshell: My father is an unlikeable and difficult person. He rarely helps around the house, usually disagrees with whatever is said seemingly for the sake of being difficult, gets very angry and defensive if anyone criticises him (screams, makes threats towards you, threatens to leave), and spends his days rotating between sleeping, eating, watching TV, and using the computer. Unfortunately the feeling that I and my sibling have towards him is contempt, even though we wish we could have a good relationship with him. He has some good points (financial contributions, nice towards our pets). He has a history of falling out with others but always blames them, and has few friends or people he gets along with. The "narcissistic personality disorder" description rings very true for him (and I say this as someone who works in the mental health field). This description is basically "the tip of the iceberg".

My mother, whilst an imperfect human like all of us, is a kind and caring woman who is very selfless and giving.

The problem: My father is constantly looking up gay porn on the home computer. He has been doing this for probably 13 years, though my sibling and I only became certain of it around 2-3 years ago. Previously we attributed things we found (videos/ pictures hidden away in folders, constant viruses on the computer, etc.) to viruses, etc. He has been doing this since we were both children. Once we realised what was happening, we decided to install K9 (a child internet protection program) on all our home computers to at least stop the behaviour in the house. I know that there may be an argument against trying to control someone's use of porn but considering his horrible behaviour at home, we felt that it was awful of him to disrespect my mum in her home in this way whilst using her for her domestic services. I am OK with being criticised for this decision and would be interested in differing perspectives. My mum is not very good with technology and has no inkling of his behaviour. He thinks he is hiding his tracks, but he is not as good as he thinks he is with technology either.

Anyway, increasingly I am realising that installing programs that prevent him from accessing these sites constantly (i.e., every night once everyone has gone to bed, during the day when no-one is behind him) is only addressing a symptom rather than the core problem. He is now searching for images on Google images and on social networking type-sites which the internet protection program cannot block without blocking ALL such sites. It really angers me that he uses and puts down my mum during the day, then goes behind her back and does this most nights. My post is prompted by the fact that he did this last night and didn't even bother trying to cover his tracks by deleting his history. Is he WANTING to be discovered? Initially I was shocked finding this out, but I've now had 3 years to become semi-desensitised to it all.

My mum describes him as "a good man, though he has his problems" and has spoken in the past about how she is happy to be part of a couple and be financially secure. Most of his behaviour, she has learnt to "let go", because he gets so nasty when criticised. It is like we all tiptoe around him. They have been married around 25 years. I'm quite sure they have no sex life anymore (I say this because he sometimes goes off for "massages" twice a week or so - they seemed legitimate but I'm aware that gay porn might not be all that he's seeking out and I wouldn't want my mum's health at risk).

My question is: What do I do? His seeking out of gay porn is pervasive and frequent; before I put K9 on our computers he was doing it constantly and just minimising the screen when someone would walk past. I haven't brought up the topic, just passive-aggressively installed K9 and refused to remove it when he asked me to. We got some new computers and he installed K9 first so he could have control over what he viewed, and was watching all the porn again. Luckily I was able to hack into it, uninstall it, and put in a new version of K9 that I have control over. It is like this ridiculous passive-aggressive dance back and forth between us; however I do not feel it is my right to potentially destroy my parents' marriage by publicising what's going on.

I'm basically wondering, from women in long marriages, what you would want if this were your husband, and what issues might be important for me to consider? Should I remain quiet, talk to my father privately, tell my mum - what?

Thank you BigChiefOrganiser.

Your father sounds exactly like my exH (gay porn and narcissism and abusive towards the children and flying into a rage when criticised in the least little way)

Please tell your mother that she will need to go and have herself checked for every std in the book.

This is your business. There is nothing sacred about anyone's so-called right to view porn of any kind in a relationship.

From my own pathetic experience of a relationship with exH it is very easy to sink into a state of acceptance of a horrible marriage and this is possibly what your mum has done. She may or may not know, but she has a right to know, and you have a right to know and a right to tell her. Actually, I would go so far as to say that by keeping this knowledge from her you are denying her the power to make her own basic decisions about her health and about her future (whether to stay with your father for instance). Your father is of course doing this too. You are also keeping a secret that will eat away at you. You do not have to keep your father's secret.

You may find your mother disinclined to believe what you tell her, or even what you show her, but at least she will have something to think about and she may well accept it eventually. Or she may find this is the straw that broke the camel's back (it was for me) and find that shock and anger give her strength to change her life for the better.

Once you tell her you will no longer be in control of events, of how she deals with matters from then on. You are ultimately only in control of how you yourself deal with things. Don't be hurt if there's little gratitude for you on her part when you tell her, and don't be surprised if it turns out she already knows and has chosen to get along and go along for whatever reason. You and she have a lot of relationship repair ahead no matter what, but my advice is (having lived with such a man) tell her.

BigChiefOrganiser -- I did not know until I stumbled upon exH's gay porn. I had been on the receiving end of endless criticism and put downs about weight and appearance and every aspect of myself as a woman and as a mother and as a homemaker for years and years. The combination of all that plus knowing my exH wanted nothing to do with me in bed was absolutely soul-destroying. I had zero self-confidence. I was being slowly destroyed. When I found out the truth it set me free.

It was all him! The problem was all him. I haven't looked back except in white hot anger at what he nearly succeeded in doing to me. I was a perfectly fine mother and a perfectly adequate housekeeper all along, and a woman a lot of straight men would have found attractive.

At the risk of sounding like a massive suck-up to mathanxiety I think she obviously knows what she's talking about and you should listen to her, Frozen.
You're really stuck in the middle, aren't you. I feel for you.

Thank you so much mathanxiety. You've summed up exactly how my father is, and how I feel about this situation... to the point where I just cried for a while before writing back. I feel I have been put in a position where I now have to keep my father's secret along with him, which is never something I wanted/ sought out. I truly hope my mum is genuinely content in her own way, and not simply accepting a horrible marriage. Though my perception is that I would never want to be married to someone like him. He also transformed once he got married - gained a huge amount of weight, changed his behaviours, etc. I wonder if your ex-husband was similar.

I feel very stuck with so much conflicting advice, but this is the conflict that's been playing in my head for the past 3 years anyway. It is very helpful to hear people's perspectives. It's paralysing, thinking through what the "right" thing to do is, and the possible consequences of each course of action.

I really hope you have been able to recover from your time with your ex-husband, and I hope that his behaviour didn't result in any health problems for you.

Frozen... why are you up at this time of night? (I'm in the Pacific time zone so 8 hours behind you.)

It sounds like you love your mum very much and want the best for her. What do you think she'd want? Do you think she would prefer not to know? (Or pretend she doesn't.) Or do you think she'd want you to bring it up with her? I suppose there is the possibility that she does know and would actually welcome the chance to talk it over with someone. On the other hand, it's just as likely she'd freak out on you.

If it were me... I'd find a way to bring it up with my mum. Of course you're not me, so that may not help you at all.

Would you feel the same if it was 'heterosexual' porn?

I'm not in the UK. :) It's daytime here.

I kind of think my mum would prefer not to know, or pretend not to know. She had a friend die recently and was commenting during her friend's illness how it emphasised to her the value of having a partner and financial security (because her friend had no partner or children, and was terminally ill by herself... it raised some difficult issues). My mum is aware that the marriage has problems, but she seems prepared to overlook/ tolerate them. But most problems are to do with him talking down to her/ putting her down, not pulling his weight domestically, or lashing out nastily when criticised.

However my worry is that more is going on than what I assume is going on, and her health/ wellbeing may be at risk, or maybe he is cheating on her with men. (Because of all the time he has to himself, the "massages", going to concerts at night "by himself", and the fact that he seems so persistent about accessing these websites, like it is a big deal to him.) I have no evidence that he is cheating on her, but he seems to have the drive/ interest, and he does have the opportunity. My perception of their relationship is that it's no longer sexual. But really, how on earth do you find that out for sure from your parents!!! It'd probably actually be a less awkward conversation than one about my dad's internet habits.

Thank you, by the way, for your kind words of support. I really value it because this is an upsetting and embarrassing issue!

K12Mom - I actually would be less worried if it were heterosexual porn. (Do you think that's bad/ notable in any way, out of interest?)

I think it's just the fact that it's such a shock/ deception - i.e., he's in a heterosexual marriage and as far as I'm aware presents himself as entirely heterosexual - and also does some "cliched" or "suspicious" things that could suggest that more is going on. Plus this seems so central to him - i.e., he does it as much as possible to the point of looking at it and quickly minimising the screen if someone walks past, during the day, and also the fact that he's finding "creative" ways of continuing to do this kind of thing. In fact it was his looking at it and then me asking to use the computer (3 or so years ago), and then with me standing behind him, he opened the history and deleted the page he had been viewing - in front of my eyes, as though I couldn't read - that made me aware of all this in the first place.

I think you are going to have to talk to your mum. To be honest, I would be more worried about the 'massages' than the porn, which you probably are.

I would be wary, though. You do come across a bit like your dad is one of your clients at times. Please try not to do that if/when you speak to your mum

I don't envy you having to do this. Your mum is lucky to have such a caring daughter.

OK, thanks. How do you think I talk about him like he's a client? I do sometimes have that tendency and I would like to avoid it if possible.

By calling him a 'narcissist'. If you didn't work in the mental health field, that would be OK, if that makes sense. Also, installing K9 is quite a controlling thing to do.

I am not criticising you - at all - but I would be aware that if you go in with a 'professional tone' your mum may well get very defensive over your dad.

That's fine! One thing my dad has taught me by example is how NOT to take criticism. So I am very open to/ embracing of it, as long as it's not malicious/ unfounded. I will steer clear of jargon. Yes, installing K9 is admittedly controlling... my flawed (and ineffective) effort to do something about this situation! I shudder to think of the consequences of removing it, though. Maybe he'd be on these sites so much my mum might notice of her own accord. The indirect/ avoidant approach I've taken thus far hasn't helped.

Anyway I am going to try to concentrate on work for the rest of the day, so thank you everybody for your replies and I look forward to returning to this thread tomorrow and hopefully reading some more viewpoints. I just wish there was a way that I could be certain of the "right" thing to do. Talking about this has helped a lot. mathanxiety, learning about your personal experiences has also helped me a lot.

I think if you get your own indepedent life you will be less interested in your parents' relationship. I think you should move out, even if you have to take a loan to do so (most pg students manage) and for heaven's sake take your spyware off your parents' computer!

Poor diddums,

You are spying on your father's internet use and acting as his censor whilst living under his roof and accepting his financial support. It just takes my breath away how many posters think this is acceptable behaviour. You are an interfering little spy. Then you brag about how you hacked into someone else's personal account. I am not sure whether your behaviour is even legal. How would you feel if your parents or siblings decided to vet all your PRIVATE internet activity?

If you feel that his behaviour is unacceptable, you should discuss it with your mother and let her decide how to deal with it. Frankly, though, in a 20+ year marriage between two adults, I think you should leave them to it.

If you despise your father so much, move out and become financially independent. Sorry if that would interfere with your oh-so-important postgrad studies but adults have to make hard and moral choices. If you want to remain a child, at least behave with respect towards BOTH adults that you choose to depend on.

I agree with other posters that it is wrong to install a net nanny in another adult's computer. As well as being wrong, it is also likely to be counter-productive - will he seek out (more) encounters in RL if his (private, legal) home activities are curtailed.

Laptops are not that expensive, so perhaps you could get your own.

BTW: how do you know his solo nights involve unsafe sexual practices? Or that there is unsafe sex in the massage parlour? (Not meaning to challenge what you say, instead wanting to know if you know for sure your mother's health is being risked).

And how do you know about the visits to the massage parlours? If you decide to talk to your mother about your father's RL behaviour that might be putting her at risk, this might be a better way to approach the subject to a technophobe.

You of course run the risk of upsetting a very delicate apple-cart here (if for example your mother has always known) - if he can surprise you, so might she.

I think the op is right to think it's her business. He's cheating on his wife, her mum. Blatantly, aggressively. Course it's her business. He is an utter shit. shame on the posters blaming her for taking an interest.

It is appalling. If this involved hardcore straight porn and possible visits to a straight brothel the responses would be very different. No "poor little diddlums" that's for sure.

The dad is involving her by being so careless and anew open. And children in early twenties living at home? No judgement here.it's a cultural norm in many places and becoming so here.

I also think that you should speak to your mum. Do it very gently and when your dad is not around. She may well ask you not to mention it again (as it is possible she kinda knows something) or of course she may be devastated. However, if she finds out later and that you didn't tell her she may feel betrayed by you too.

It is an awful situation and one I can understand to some extent. Please talk to your mum as it will eat you up and destroy you.

Appletrees,

There is nothing blatant about it. The OP has spied on her father's PRIVATE computer. Do you believe that no-one has a right to privacy. Of course, who needs privacy if they have nothing to hide, right?! Do children have a right to know everything about their parents' marriage, as you seem to be implying?

And, as for cultural norms, as far as I am concerned, supporting children beyond adulthood is very much helping them and is not an obligation. There is a quid pro quo for this of at least realising that you are lucky to be in this position and not actually attacking your parents in return.

Unless your mother is extremely stupid or unless your father is telling her that he's going to the pub and not for massages, I'd bet a pound to a penny that she knows. What's more, she appears to have decided to accept this in return for not just a financially secure lifestyle but also all the trappings and social acceptability which goes with it. Think about it - give up a secure financial base, her home, her social life and be the "that woman who left her husband because he was seeing gay men" or keep schtum and go your own way, smiling as he pays for it, in your older years. Confronting is easy when you're 20-something but as the years go by it gets harder and harder. Furthermore, she may not thank you for getting involved. I know plenty who wouldn't, including a woman whose DH has been having an affair for the past 10 years.

There's also something distinctly unsavoury about you being more against it all because your father is viewing gay porn - since when was an adult viewing porn depicting an adult, gay or otherwise, a crime? Especially when you are living in his house at his expense? As for putting an internet nanny on the pc which someone else pays for and which is located in their own property, purely to monitor/block something which you don't approve of makes me feel rather uncharitable towards you tbh.

If your mother doesn't know and you tell her... and it is a big if, what do you think you'll achieve? Your father suddenly having a personality change and eschewing all things porn so they live happily ever after?

Or a huge great row, where you will come out of it smelling little pleasanter than your father and resulting in your mother living out her life with neither partner nor the home and life she has built up, valued and worked for over the past 25 years... and you end up with no home and quite possibly the blame?

Sorry, but as OldLady has already said, it's easy to see things in black and white when you're in your early 20s. Get to my old age and it'll hit you that there are dynamics to other people's marriages which you never even considered as a youngster, much less experienced.

Of course it's blatant. Read. it's a communal computer where all you have to division click "history". why do you think so many other posters believe the mum already knows? the responses would be SO different if it was straight cheating.. clicking history does not make you an interfering. little spy, op.

you should get an apology for that. of course you won'though.

If your mum won't leave him despite his generally abusive behaviour, she's not going to leave him over gay porn either. She has, for whatever reason, decided that she is going to stay in this marriage no matter what.
And if you are determined to 'fix' things or to try to, shouldn't your priority be getting your father to be less aggressive and rude, rather than obsessing about his sex life?

I am sympathetic to your problem because when I was a young adult in my parents' home I was frequently confronted with my father's "secret" philandering behaviour.

Please take this advice for your sanity:

1. This is your parents' relationship. Not yours. You need to back off.

2. If you can't move out, get your own laptop. Distasteful though it may be, your father is entitled to look at any legal porn he wants to. However it is not healthy for you to have your head in your father's sex life.

3. Make plans for when and how you are going to leave, so that you don't feel that this is a situation that is going to run and run.

4. Make sure your mother feels loved and supported by you, but don't take sides in a general way. Work out how much you can tolerate in terms of contact and involvement with your father.

I know it is hard when you live at home, but for all your sakes you need to work harder at separating from your parents' relationship.

This is all such crap. Suddenly the famous mn condemnation of cheating, internet porn, possible eyes and threats to health, it makes everything a lie, blah blah blah, is evaporation because it's gay.

Look, it's cheating. You want to leave your mum sinking in that situation without stretching out a hand for support? Nice children. Maybe the dad is horrible because of his situation. He's gay and had to hide it all his life, it has made him bitter, unhappy and selfish. Maybe he even thinks he doesn't have to be respectful to your mum because he sees himself giving up so much for her, so much a part of himself.

maybe you should talk to him, not her, don't know. but whatever the reasons and the psychology he is treating your mother terribly and it is completely appropriate to want to help.