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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My father (married 25 years) frequently "secretly" using gay porn

291 replies

TotallyFrozen · 31/12/2010 00:08

Hi all, I am so grateful for the name change feature on this. I am posting here because hopefully there are many women on here who would be in a similar-length marriage to my mother and it is her welfare that I am concerned about here. Sorry this will be long-ish.

In a nutshell: My father is an unlikeable and difficult person. He rarely helps around the house, usually disagrees with whatever is said seemingly for the sake of being difficult, gets very angry and defensive if anyone criticises him (screams, makes threats towards you, threatens to leave), and spends his days rotating between sleeping, eating, watching TV, and using the computer. Unfortunately the feeling that I and my sibling have towards him is contempt, even though we wish we could have a good relationship with him. He has some good points (financial contributions, nice towards our pets). He has a history of falling out with others but always blames them, and has few friends or people he gets along with. The "narcissistic personality disorder" description rings very true for him (and I say this as someone who works in the mental health field). This description is basically "the tip of the iceberg".

My mother, whilst an imperfect human like all of us, is a kind and caring woman who is very selfless and giving.

The problem: My father is constantly looking up gay porn on the home computer. He has been doing this for probably 13 years, though my sibling and I only became certain of it around 2-3 years ago. Previously we attributed things we found (videos/ pictures hidden away in folders, constant viruses on the computer, etc.) to viruses, etc. He has been doing this since we were both children. Once we realised what was happening, we decided to install K9 (a child internet protection program) on all our home computers to at least stop the behaviour in the house. I know that there may be an argument against trying to control someone's use of porn but considering his horrible behaviour at home, we felt that it was awful of him to disrespect my mum in her home in this way whilst using her for her domestic services. I am OK with being criticised for this decision and would be interested in differing perspectives. My mum is not very good with technology and has no inkling of his behaviour. He thinks he is hiding his tracks, but he is not as good as he thinks he is with technology either.

Anyway, increasingly I am realising that installing programs that prevent him from accessing these sites constantly (i.e., every night once everyone has gone to bed, during the day when no-one is behind him) is only addressing a symptom rather than the core problem. He is now searching for images on Google images and on social networking type-sites which the internet protection program cannot block without blocking ALL such sites. It really angers me that he uses and puts down my mum during the day, then goes behind her back and does this most nights. My post is prompted by the fact that he did this last night and didn't even bother trying to cover his tracks by deleting his history. Is he WANTING to be discovered? Initially I was shocked finding this out, but I've now had 3 years to become semi-desensitised to it all.

My mum describes him as "a good man, though he has his problems" and has spoken in the past about how she is happy to be part of a couple and be financially secure. Most of his behaviour, she has learnt to "let go", because he gets so nasty when criticised. It is like we all tiptoe around him. They have been married around 25 years. I'm quite sure they have no sex life anymore (I say this because he sometimes goes off for "massages" twice a week or so - they seemed legitimate but I'm aware that gay porn might not be all that he's seeking out and I wouldn't want my mum's health at risk).

My question is: What do I do? His seeking out of gay porn is pervasive and frequent; before I put K9 on our computers he was doing it constantly and just minimising the screen when someone would walk past. I haven't brought up the topic, just passive-aggressively installed K9 and refused to remove it when he asked me to. We got some new computers and he installed K9 first so he could have control over what he viewed, and was watching all the porn again. Luckily I was able to hack into it, uninstall it, and put in a new version of K9 that I have control over. It is like this ridiculous passive-aggressive dance back and forth between us; however I do not feel it is my right to potentially destroy my parents' marriage by publicising what's going on.

I'm basically wondering, from women in long marriages, what you would want if this were your husband, and what issues might be important for me to consider? Should I remain quiet, talk to my father privately, tell my mum - what?

OP posts:
tadpoles · 03/01/2011 23:58

It will not make any difference whether she "tells" her or not! Sorry - but you lot who think that everything will suddenly come togewher with a revelation are - a bit silly really.

perfumeditsawonderfullife · 04/01/2011 00:02

I don't believe our 'lot' think everything will suddenly come together. What would happen is the op would have some peace of mind, knowing she is no longer the keeper of her fathers dirty secret. If the mother already knows, she knows, no harm done, she is a grown woman and staying or leaving is her concern. If she doesn't, well, she can deal with all the facts as she wishes.

Still, the op will have peace of mind, not wondering for a further three years if her mother is unaware of this.

tadpoles · 04/01/2011 00:27

Well - a whole bunch of cr** has been going on for 25 years so - not quite sure how much this "revelation" will make any difference, really. Well - if it gives "peace of mind" to the OP - why not I suppose, if only for her/his sake?

Honestly, though - it is a case of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

PaulaYates · 04/01/2011 00:32

tadpoles - i would want to know. I would want to be told. Even if i had been kidding myself.

mathanxiety · 04/01/2011 00:43

'it is her right to know and she is responsible for how she deals/reacts with the knowledge that you provide to her, not you.'

I think this sums it up very well.

TotallyFrozen · 04/01/2011 00:59

Hello all, thanks for all your messages, I am finding this thread very emotionally exhausting as you might imagine. When I originally posted it was so worrying/ foreign to talk about the issue to anyone outside my sibling/ partner, now I am writing/ thinking about it every day. I haven't caught up on all the posts yet but I'll try to do so now/ today. Sorry about my silence.

OP posts:
RealName · 04/01/2011 01:29

With the case of my friend, who eventually moved out, her father was trying much harder to conceal it. Revelations happened on occasions when she came home unexpectedly or went into her parents bedroom. So my advice that it's up to your father what he does on his own computer was based probably more on her experience than yours if I'm honest. Moving out still seems like a good idea though, whatever else you choose to do.

Caterpillar2Butterfly · 04/01/2011 01:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

RealName · 04/01/2011 01:48

What caterpillar said too.

sakura · 04/01/2011 03:35

Cabbagerose I think it's very hypocritical of you to say it's wrong to use the label "narcissist" while you yourself are bandying about terms and labels such as "oeidopus complex" . The fact that you are okay with using labels for the OP, but are not okay with people using them to describe the fathers suggests that you may have your own reasons for needing the father to come out of this smelling of roses

TotallyFrozen · 04/01/2011 04:28

Hello everyone. I'm taking the chance now to read everyone's replies carefully. It's weird, when you're reading someone else's thread it's very interesting/ easy to read through lots of replies. But because this is my thread it's very difficult, I'm trying to wrap my head around each new idea and it's hard to respond to everyone/ think through every idea properly. There is some very confronting information here that has triggered a lot of thought, emotion, and reflection for me. But I truly appreciate everyone's contributions, whether or not the topic gets derailed at times Wink. Though at the same time this is TOTALLY normalising this gay porn issue in my mind - no-one's fault, but when you're thinking about it so much and coming back here to read replies that discuss the issue so frankly, etc., you become desensitised to it and it starts seeming normal/ a non-issue! Like things will now have to step up a notch for me to feel like there's an issue.

I am thinking that for now, I will let things lie. If my dad is sloppy about using it again, I will casually comment on "the weird computer where there are always links to/ searches for gay porn. Does anyone know why this might be? Do we need to have it checked?" I think that is within my rights because it is a communal computer. Believe it or not, before this thread, casually mentioning the topic did not even occur to me as an option - to me the options seemed to be, stay quiet, or initiate an awkward direct conversation about it. This way I am making it clear that it's obvious, giving him the opportunity to be more discreet, and giving my mum the opportunity to know.

My sibling said to me this morning, "I've been thinking - do you think he WANTS us to notice and say something, so that he can "come out"?" This is another possibility that had not occurred to me before this thread, and it may be true - he seems very unhappy, someone who does so little each day and puts so little energy into life is probably depressed/ unhappy. It is hard when their behaviour then affects you and YOU become unhappy - but I need to focus on building some empathy for him here. It is also hard with him because when you let down your guard and try to be nice/ help him to feel happier, he'll take advantage of it, asking you to do extra things for him, etc., that you don't want to do.

I think I do need to step back, detach from the home dynamic by moving out. My partner is starting a new job with a significant pay rise, once he has settled in we can look at changing my living circumstances. At the end of this year my financial options will be massively better and I can be truly free from the atmosphere at home. It is true that at the moment I am prioritising completing my studies over leaving the home, which is what people in my "real life" keep advising me to do because then I will be completely free sooner, rather than in a prolonged semi-independent state (not studying fast enough, not earning enough). The course is very full-on so the part-timers feel like they're almost full-timers even though technically they shouldn't be.

The atmosphere at home is because we have all learnt that criticising anything, voicing disappointment or asking for help will be met with shouting, insults, threats, etc. We all therefore have just given up and get on with things ourselves rather than involving him or asking him to help more or behave in a considerate way. It is less aversive to clean up after him, just accept the situation, etc., than it is to trigger one of his "rages". I don't think that's a healthy dynamic but it suits him! On the other hand, as I mentioned in a PM that I sent to someone, he is not a one-dimensional caricature - he does kind things as well, he can speak kindly, etc.

As I also said in a PM, regarding whether or not my mum has seen the gay porn when he's slow in minimising the screen - I suspect not, simply because she tends to spend her time in different areas of the house, and if she suspects nothing and isn't familiar with computers, she mightn't read any meaning into windows closing or rapid clicking when she approaches/ passes the room (I'm sure you know what I mean). She also mightn't think to look sideways because she doesn't suspect anything and would be passing on her way to another room. BUT it is also possible that she has seen it and doesn't care.

Regarding using analogies to make a point (i.e., cigarettes) - I have always felt analogies can be used to support any point. e.g., if in an analogy I shifted the "severity" of the issue up a notch instead of down - for instance, maybe on top of everything else, finding love letters between my dad and another man like mathanxiety's daughter, or even coming home unexpectedly one day and finding my dad with another man in the house - then I think that would persuade people towards the "tell your mum" perspective, even though it's the same notion of coming across something "secret" that's relevant to your parents' relationship, not you.

Another thing I am going to do is resolve to be there more for my mum. At the moment I tend to cope by spending as much time out of the house as possible - which means I don't see much of my mum, as well as my dad. If I spend more time with her that might help her/ strengthen our relationship and I can get more of an idea of what she might think and want.

My dad isn't the main breadwinner - I think my mum actually paid for the computer in question! She pays for most large purchases. She also paid off the house I believe - before she met my dad. I know that that's kind of irrelevant - in a family assets are usually pooled - but I thought I'd throw that in there because there does seem to be an assumption that my dad is the "big financial contributor" and this somehow affects his position in all this. I don't agree with the idea that "he is entitled to behave however he likes and if people don't like it (including my mum) they can leave". As in, I don't think he's the central figure in the family that everyone should revolve around.

Incidentally, on a more intellectual/ irrelevant level - as part of my paid work I have visited a number of domestic violence organisations and interviewed the senior staff there, and I understand what MakeYerOwnDamnDinner is saying. The managers of these organisations have all emphasised the critical importance of adopting a feminist perspective. MakeYerOwnDamnDinner said, "The cause of any sort of domestic abuse is the desire on the part of the perpetrator to control and dominate his partner and family and his underlying belief that he is entitled to do so". My understanding is that all the other factors discussed here may contribute - but people can experience those factors without becoming abusers. The key, causal factor for becoming an abuser is "the desire on the part of the perpetrator to control and dominate his partner and family and his underlying belief that he is entitled to do so" - without that you would not become an abuser no matter what your circumstances. I hope I understand that correctly.

mathanxiety, thanks for all your excellent and confronting/ thought-provoking links. I will definitely be reading more of them, trying to get a hold of books, etc.

MrsFlittersnoop - thank you and I feel very sad for your sister-in-law.

antsypants - thank you though I'm not sure I understand your point of view. I'm writing a lot here because I'm trying to ensure that people have an accurate understanding of the situation, so that their advice is maximally relevant/ helpful, and also to answer people's questions if they're about central issues that will affect their advice. I am hesitant to just blurt everything all out to my mother because when I started the thread I wasn't sure whether it was even my business to do so and it could create chaos that I might really regret, I don't want to act rashly. As I've mentioned previously, I have friends who have been in really bad family situations, and a parent initiated a split, and then really regretted that split further down the line. However dysfunctional the family is, I also don't like the idea of setting something into motion that causes it to fall apart (although I appreciate others' advice that it is not MY behaviour that could result in that, so I'm not "responsible" in that way). I guess that's why his threats to leave are effective in shutting people up! I really don't think my motives are any deeper than that.

anokhi - fantastic post, thank you. :)

ItsGraceAgain - thanks, good to hear from someone who has been in a similar situation. No, I can't afford a detective!

holyShmoley - good point, that's how I feel.

thisisyesterday - haha! (Re: your first sentence). Thanks for your advice.

perfumeditsawonderfullife - thanks for your very good advice, it seems your moral compass is similar to my own.

Caterpillar2Butterfly and PaulaYates - thanks, message taken on.

It seems like the tide of this discussion has turned, with most people saying that it is most "right" to tell my mother in some way, and I think the way I suggested above is a way in which I can make sure she knows the facts without intruding too much on their relationship or feeling too uncomfortable or creating huge conflict.

I do think some of the arguing on this thread is probably like arguing about which religion is right/ whether or not there is a God - i.e., it will go on and on and no-one's viewpoint is going to change, and people will just feel more vindicated in their beliefs.

I am going to take mathanxiety's advice and not visit this thread every day if that's OK, because I'd like "gay porn" to take up less of my days!

OP posts:
JamieLeeCurtis · 04/01/2011 08:38

TF - Take care of yourself. Make that the priority. And if that means leaving this thread then do that. I'm sure we all agree that you do not owe us to come back on here if it is too much atm. Have PMd you

ItsGraceAgain · 04/01/2011 14:36

What a superb reply, TF. Your mum's clearly done a great job of bringing you up, despite her adverse circumstances! Good luck. I look forward to hearing how things develop.

Thank you VERY much for this; I've never seen it put so succinctly:

The key, causal factor for becoming an abuser is "the desire on the part of the perpetrator to control and dominate his partner and family and his underlying belief that he is entitled to do so" - without that you would not become an abuser no matter what your circumstances.

I think some of your more vociferous respondents share your fther's belief in his entitlement.

mathanxiety · 04/01/2011 14:41

'I don't think he's the central figure in the family that everyone should revolve around.'

But he is. Sad He shouldn't be.

hellymelly · 04/01/2011 15:16

Good wishes to you tf.It had also run through my mind that your father,either subliminally or not,wants to be found out.Living with a big secret is exhausting and miserable.Maybe he is trapped too and his anger and general ill-treatment of your mother is a strange way of trying to force her to end things so that he can change his life and live as a gay man? That's not to justify his bad behaviour,but it is a very common ,if cowardly,way of forcing things to a head.I feel very sad for you in the middle of all this,and echo other posters,look after yourself first,have plently of fun,deal with it together with your siblings,and don't give it more headspace than you have to.At least if it does all come out then you can stop worrying about it.Could you simply show your mother the computer without making any verbal assumtions?

tadpoles · 04/01/2011 22:16

TF - your last post was very insightful. Well done for you, managing to gain some perspective on it all. I think that the approach you are suggesting is really on track. You are flagging up your concerns, without forcing any kind of confrontation (which could backfire).

My perspective on this type of situation is that it is not the role of the children (even/especially when adult) to police/control/get involved in their parents' relationship.

It is not up to the OP to "rescue" her mother, however much she might want to. I understand the comments about male abuse but I disagree that the woman should always be seen as the victim. With help, the woman in this type of situation can start to take steps to stop being a victim.

Maybe the OP can help her mother to start to take those steps, if they both want this.

Anyway, good luck OP, you sound amazing considering the adverse circumstances you describe!

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