My father (married 25 years) frequently "secretly" using gay porn

[TotallyFrozen]

Hi all, I am so grateful for the name change feature on this. I am posting here because hopefully there are many women on here who would be in a similar-length marriage to my mother and it is her welfare that I am concerned about here. Sorry this will be long-ish.

In a nutshell: My father is an unlikeable and difficult person. He rarely helps around the house, usually disagrees with whatever is said seemingly for the sake of being difficult, gets very angry and defensive if anyone criticises him (screams, makes threats towards you, threatens to leave), and spends his days rotating between sleeping, eating, watching TV, and using the computer. Unfortunately the feeling that I and my sibling have towards him is contempt, even though we wish we could have a good relationship with him. He has some good points (financial contributions, nice towards our pets). He has a history of falling out with others but always blames them, and has few friends or people he gets along with. The "narcissistic personality disorder" description rings very true for him (and I say this as someone who works in the mental health field). This description is basically "the tip of the iceberg".

My mother, whilst an imperfect human like all of us, is a kind and caring woman who is very selfless and giving.

The problem: My father is constantly looking up gay porn on the home computer. He has been doing this for probably 13 years, though my sibling and I only became certain of it around 2-3 years ago. Previously we attributed things we found (videos/ pictures hidden away in folders, constant viruses on the computer, etc.) to viruses, etc. He has been doing this since we were both children. Once we realised what was happening, we decided to install K9 (a child internet protection program) on all our home computers to at least stop the behaviour in the house. I know that there may be an argument against trying to control someone's use of porn but considering his horrible behaviour at home, we felt that it was awful of him to disrespect my mum in her home in this way whilst using her for her domestic services. I am OK with being criticised for this decision and would be interested in differing perspectives. My mum is not very good with technology and has no inkling of his behaviour. He thinks he is hiding his tracks, but he is not as good as he thinks he is with technology either.

Anyway, increasingly I am realising that installing programs that prevent him from accessing these sites constantly (i.e., every night once everyone has gone to bed, during the day when no-one is behind him) is only addressing a symptom rather than the core problem. He is now searching for images on Google images and on social networking type-sites which the internet protection program cannot block without blocking ALL such sites. It really angers me that he uses and puts down my mum during the day, then goes behind her back and does this most nights. My post is prompted by the fact that he did this last night and didn't even bother trying to cover his tracks by deleting his history. Is he WANTING to be discovered? Initially I was shocked finding this out, but I've now had 3 years to become semi-desensitised to it all.

My mum describes him as "a good man, though he has his problems" and has spoken in the past about how she is happy to be part of a couple and be financially secure. Most of his behaviour, she has learnt to "let go", because he gets so nasty when criticised. It is like we all tiptoe around him. They have been married around 25 years. I'm quite sure they have no sex life anymore (I say this because he sometimes goes off for "massages" twice a week or so - they seemed legitimate but I'm aware that gay porn might not be all that he's seeking out and I wouldn't want my mum's health at risk).

My question is: What do I do? His seeking out of gay porn is pervasive and frequent; before I put K9 on our computers he was doing it constantly and just minimising the screen when someone would walk past. I haven't brought up the topic, just passive-aggressively installed K9 and refused to remove it when he asked me to. We got some new computers and he installed K9 first so he could have control over what he viewed, and was watching all the porn again. Luckily I was able to hack into it, uninstall it, and put in a new version of K9 that I have control over. It is like this ridiculous passive-aggressive dance back and forth between us; however I do not feel it is my right to potentially destroy my parents' marriage by publicising what's going on.

I'm basically wondering, from women in long marriages, what you would want if this were your husband, and what issues might be important for me to consider? Should I remain quiet, talk to my father privately, tell my mum - what?

Is your main concern that your mother doesn't know what your father has been doing? If so, why don't you tell her and stoop trying to police your father. As others have said, you need to be prepared for the fact that she may already know and accepts it

Or is it that you dont approve of what he is doing? If so, it's not really any of your business, unless he is committing an offence. I don't agree with porn either, gay or straight, but i don't think it's my business to go around installing spy ware on my relatives pcs

You say that you don't like your father and it's clear that you don't agree with his behaviour. But you choose to live with him because of the money and the convenience. I don't see how that makes you any different from your mother

I suspect that you have more education and more opportunities than your mother too, so you have even fewer reasons to put with a living situation that you don't like

Finally I think that you are WAY too emotionally involved with your parents marriage and need to get some help with this. You believe that your course gives you some special insight and expertise but it doesn't and it's not helpful for you. You need to learn to detach or you will take these issues into your professional practice ( assuming that you do graduate and get a job in this field)

Sorry if this sounds harsh, it's not meant to be

Why are you interfering?

I can understand why she is putting the programs on the computer. I don't think it is the right thing to do but who wants to talk to their dad about porn? It will be really hard, especially if he is confrontational. That is why I think it needs to be done with kindness rather than criticism.

Doesn't he know you're blocking his access? When DH used our new security software to block access to MN (Ha!!) it was fairly obvious what he'd been up to!

Hi TotallyFrozen,

First, it is not your job to protect your mother from your father's sexuality or to hide your father's sexuality from your mother. They are both adults and need to deal with this themselves.

Second, although you and your sibling are adults, to the extent that your parents are happy for you to continue to live at home, they also need to respect your rights and feelings and in your father's blatant behaviour in a family space he is not doing that.

Your options seem to be:

a) keep quiet and stay
b) leave
c) bring the issue into the open.

It is perfectly understandable that, if you think your mother is unaware of your father's behaviour, you feel that you are deceiving her by keeping quiet. However, you need to remember that it is not your problem. She is married to him and knows him better than anyone; it is her responsibility to be aware of how he is behaving in her marriage and to deal with that, not yours.It is possible to decide that keeping quiet is the best option for everyone and to reconcile yourself to that.

It's also quite understandable that you are financially not in a position to leave at present. That is your problem and you might want to think of ways of addressing that.It's possible for you to get a flat even if the circumstances are not ideal, and just removing yourself from the situation might be the best thing you can do.

And, of course, you don't want to destroy your parent's marriage by bringing the issue into the open. However, either your mother would decide to carry on regardless, in which case the marriage would not be destroyed, or she would end it because of your father's behaviour, not because of what you had said. Either way, you would not have caused the end of your parents' marriage. You could bring the issue into the open by mentioning it to your Mum, who might be aware of it despite appearances; alternatively, the next time your father behaves inappropriately in public, make a public comment about it - ask why he keeps looking at these sites in public. (Of course, he might tell you to get out, which takes you back to (b), so it might be best to prepare the ground for that if you opt for (c).)

So none of the three options is as bad as it first appears.

It's easy when faced with a dilemma to go round in circles, constantly worrying about the the worst possible outcome and never able to resolve it. You need to try to avoid this.

Set a particular time when you will finally consider the issues/talk to relevant person and make a decision. Then stick to it. If it's very difficult to choose between the options then there isn't much to choose between them and, more or less, one is as good as another.

Remember: there is no right answer and it's not your job to sort it out.

Good luck

RRocks

OP, I would say keep out of this. I'm sure that your mother knows.

My parents have a most dysfunctional relationship. It came to a head a few years ago and my DM told us 4 siblings that she would rather be still married than have the shame of not. She liked having someone to go to functions with, even though he does not treat her very nicely.

We all just put up with him, for her sake. She has chosen the path for herself.

You can't live your mother's life for her, however, hard it is for you.

I also agree that what seems so black and white when you are in your 20s is not so the older you get.

I would try and move out as soon as you can and not be dependent on him/them and that will enable you to put this to the back of your mind.

I'm sure your mother does know or, at least suspect. She may not want to confront it as then it means she has to make a choice.

Respectability is a big thing for many people of an older generation.

It is not your concern.
I have been married 26 years and would be very upset if my children tried to sanction my behaviour or my Hs.

I once ended up as a mediator- pig i n the middle between my parents- now mid 80s- who were having a bad spell in their marriage when they were in their 70s.

Basically, my dear dad sounds a bit like yours but without the gay porn!
But, there are always 2 sides....I listened to both, got into a real pickle, and decided to bow out.
They are still married and grumble a bit less!

The reality is that in your 20s you should not be living at home and acting as a censor to your parents.

Their marriage is between them.

If your father was doing anything illegal- ie child abuse/paedophilia- yes, tell the law- but he is not as far as you know.

You need to leave home- and leave them to it.

Just another thought- and I may have missed this. I suspect you are his son?

This has all the signs of Oedipus complex and more!

If you really care about your mother, leave well alone.

Telling her will either:
a) hurt her terribly
b) confirm what she already knows
c) alienate her from you, as the bearer of bad news.
d) make her more unhappy than she is already.

it is hard to see your/our parents as fallible human beings, just as it is hard for parents to stand and watch their children mess up their lives at times.

But unless your mother is dropping big hints and asking if you know anything, shut up.

I think you would benefit from counselling, as what this post does throw up is your sudden realisation that your parents are humans, with faults. maybe as their child you have idolised one of them in some way and now have to face reality?

If you really do hate your father so much, then how do you square living at home? I know your studies make it seem a necessity but it isn't- you do have, or can create an alternative.

Just another thought- and I may have missed this. I suspect you are his son?...This has all the signs of Oedipus complex and more!

50% chance of being right, I suppose. And if you're wrong, is it still an Oedipus complex?

RRocks

Electra, I think.

What point are you trying to make Rocks?

Nothing the OP has said implies they are female and I just wonder if in fact they are male.

Be interesting to know.

FWIW OP I have an adult "child" (20s)at home for a while and they actually criticise me for wastingspending time on MN! Were they to introduce spyware or censor what I was using, they would not be at home one day more!

If you go ahead and tell, you risk losing 2 parents. Your mother would never thank you- she would be embarrassed at best and devastated at worst.

I am afraid the judgmental tone used against the op is manufactured out of a way to express disapproval of HER disapproval of the "gay" aspect. There are posters here, fallingandlaughing for example, who have managed to offer advice a.d express the view that the op should bow out, without resorting to infantile abuse and sarcasm. Considering the very vehement response to adultery and "internet" cheating on mn, and the almost condoning attitude on this thread, it's patently obvious. Falling is one of the few people who seem to have a true undersyanding, though I think there were one or two at the top of the thread.

RE the "communal" computer; exactly. You cannot bite the hand that feeds you. The OP likes to live in a nice comfortable house and have lots of nice possessions, paid for by her parents. Yet, at the same time, to censor her own father.

Where does that MASSIVE sense of ENTITLEMENT come from? She deserves to be kicked out.

Considering it is a communal computer being confronted with porn against your wishes isnt ok , no matter whos doing it , or what your position in the home is. Where does HE get the MASSIVE sense of ENTITLEMENT that his grown up daughter is forced into the position of stumbling across offensive images ? Or watching him casually minimize the screen ? Theres a lack of boundarys here.

Op , if this was on his own personal pc i agree it would be none of your business , but considering hes so blatent i would be inclined to say something , or possibly install a history eraser and state why , stating you dont wish to see porn therefore can he ensures he removes all traces as you find it offensive.

I would be much more concerned with his abusive behaviour towards your mum , the screaming and threatening ect. I think this is much more important than the porn . Does your mum recognise this as abusive behaviour ?

I think i would have a talk with her about the whole thing , and its up to her what to do from there .

Apple I haven't mentioned they gay thing once!
It doesn't matter to me if he is watching gay porn or bestiality- it's his business.

Your parents' marriage was over before it even began.
I wouldn't be concerned about destroying it.

Dignified- don't you think that any parent ( and I am prob. about the same age as the OPs) would be highly offended to have her DH's behaviour examined in front of her by their "child"? it won't help. It is patronising beyond belief unless he is being physically violent.

As for seeing porn on the communal pc...I think this is a total red herring. You can only see the history if you look for it.

Also, I doubt VERY much ( as the parent of a post grad myself) that the OP does not have their own pc- working on one family pc at home whilst doing a post grad course is not very common or practical, and I suspect they are stretching the truth to embelish their case.

I just dont get people saying its his business what he looks at. If he were doing it on his own pc , in private , or erasing his history it would indeed be his own business .

But hes not . When other people see it , like the op , it becomes their business . Why should she be confronted with offensive images when she uses the pc ? Why should she have to suffer the uncomfortable feeling of KNOWING he dad is looking at porn despite the fact everyone else is nearby ?

There was a thread a while ago about a guy doing this in work , and the op received full support and was urged to report him. I dont see why this is differant ? If people want to look at porn thats their business , when its shoved down other peoples throats it becomes their business .

Dignified- don't you think that any parent ( and I am prob. about the same age as the OPs) would be highly offended to have her DH's behaviour examined in front of her by their "child"? it won't help. It is patronising beyond belief unless he is being physically violent.

It depends what behaviour was being examined . If it was something that didnt affect them and was none of their business i dont think id apreciate it , but if it was something that was making them feel uncomfortable i think they would have a right to raise it. That goes for anyone in the family , regardless of their position.

before I put K9 on our computers he was doing it constantly and just minimising the screen when someone would walk past.

I think this is horrible , and like the other poster who complained of a work mate doing this , i dont think you should have to put up with this , regardless of whos house it is or who pays what.
Is it possible to designate one of these computers for your own use ?

The point Dignified, is that it should not be affecting them because they have outgrown the age at which they ought to be at home.

Even if this were not the case, interfering in anyone's relationships-- especially your parents- is not on.

Cabbageroses - not all computers hide the history. DH's mac shows a screen of most frequently viewed sites when you login. I got the impression it was a similar way the op had been confronted with the porn.

Either way, the options are not only keep quiet or tell the mum. I think she/he/whoever doesn't currently have anything to tell the mum. She/he should talk to the dad about it and see if there is a problem. The OP is clearly very worried and upset about the whole situation so surely it is better to talk to her dad about it than to pretend it isn't happening and let it come between them all like a massive White elephant that nobody mentions whether or not she/he moves out?

Oh and it may be because my children are little but I wouldn't like my children to ever feel they "ought not to be at home"! Being at home does not automatically equal dependent unless the parents allow it and is sometimes necessary for adult children who are in difficulty. I think it is really hard for parents to live with adult children and also very hard for adult children to live at home so I can't see that it would really be something anyone would seek... I see my responsibility to my children as lifelong not for 18/21 years. It is really hard to do postgraduate study without some financial support/housing etc. I don't understand why a lot of you are being so cruel.

I suspect you are his son?...This has all the signs of Oedipus complex and more.

cabbageroses, it was the logic of your argument that I was questioning. Not saying that you're female doesn't suggest that you're male. Most people who post on here don't say that that they're female. Therefore no reason to suspect that the OP is male, therefore no justification for diagnosing Oedipus complex, which applies to sons/mothers/fathers and not daughters/mothers/fathers. That was merely a means of seeming to logically conclude that the OP was being unreasonable in a way that's so obvious it even has its own label.

I think you would benefit from counselling, as what this post does throw up is your sudden realisation that your parents are humans, with faults. maybe as their child you have idolised one of them in some way and now have to face reality?

Is there any evidence to suggest that the OP previously thought that the parents were perfect? She describes her father's narcissitic rages and her mother as imperfect 'like all of us'.

Anyway, you've 'established' that the OP has an Oedipus complex, so now you can ask
If you really do hate your father so much...

?? Where does the OP say or suggest that?

I suspect they are stretching the truth to embelish their case.

So it doesn't really matter if the evidence of the OP's post contradicts your theory; you'll just disbelieve the bits that don't fit.

On the other hand, to throw your (adult) child out of your home because they made the mistake of changing settings on your pc so that they would no longer be offended by what you were looking at, seems to me unreasonable. Talking would be better. I completely agree that if it's your house, it's your rules, but they have to be respectful of everyone in the house. There are perfectly good reasons to look up the history other than spying on someone else and the father should not be using a family computer to look at porn. As another poster said, there is definitely a problem with boundaries there.

RRocks

RRocks- are you going to pick holes in everyone else's posts- are just mine?
You sound a tad defensive.

I thought that the linguistics of the first post actually had a male ring to them. And the behaviour seemed more male. A young male.

You seem to be having rather a go at me for no apparant reason and I wonder why my post- which actually reiterates some other comments ( ie seek counselling) has rattled you so much that you want to "have a go"?

I didn't know you wer an expert on the Oedipus complex.- you are, aren't you? otherwise why pick over it so much?

There is no need to sign your name either- it comes up at the top of your posts.

Sorry,cabbageroses,but I didn't pick the holes. They were gaping.

I assumed that the OP was female.

RRocks