he hasnt even replied to my happy chridtmas text.....

[icepick]

Am seeing someone who I've know as friends before that. He has said he loves me, and I've said the same
We aren't spending Xmas together as he hasn't met any of my family, nor me his. I did ask if he was free before Xmas but he said he was busy and would see ne after it.
I've just text him about an hour ago to say happy Christmas and he has nor even replied. I know he is up and not doing anything as he's been logged into his pc since 630.

I shouldnt bother with him anymore should I.

Am not going to let it ruin my day. But its made me a little bit sad.

icepick- when you have your barriers set so high, probably as a defense, you probably WILL attract arseholes who try to lower them only to fuck you over... you need to work on being more open to a good man.

Icepick: Believe me I have been there. And it's infuriating. But don't blame yourself too much, this is a nasty, manipulative individual who either did this to you out of malice or because he is thoroughly fucked up and acting out his own issues on every woman he meets.
He will get his, one day - maybe not until his looks have gone, but sooner or later he will end up lonely, desperate and embittered.
You on the other hand have a world of possibilities open to you: don't worry too much about dating, or if you do date, do so casually for the time being (and remember to treat even the most desperate of tosspots with kindness and courtesy even when you are firmly telling them to get lost).

I dont think you sound particularly as though you have low self esteem or needy tbh.

To settle for the first available niceish man who comes along demonstrates that more imho

Thats because i dont have low self esteem, and im not needy.

i refuse to settle for anything less than extrodinary.

But, i am willing to admitt, that may have slightly led me astray.

I am quite happy to be on my own. That is, and has never, ever been a problem.
Im also happy to have casual relationships.. not because im looking for male validation, but because i damn well like a shag.

He is lonely already. Hes 34, not a relationship past a few months. He may have all the money and nice things in the world. He might be the most beautiful man ( sadly he knows it) but he is still lonely.

Its just sad, i know its not me, noone will ever be enough for him. Because he doesnt really know what he wants. But i think ive done enough waiting around while he trys to figure it out.

IP I hope you didn't think I was saying that you had settled for first available man - I was speaking generally about people who do thinking they may have high self esteem but its not always that clear cut.

I think I have a similar outlook to you about men and relationships. After fifteen years in a very crap marriage I got out, have been separated (and now divorced) for four and a half years.

Not needing a new partner but if an exceptional man came along well great.

oh no, i understood what you meant.

I could have chosen to settle for other men. Im not really short on offers.

But, like you, after 10 years in a crap marriage, i have decided that if im going to be with someone, they need to be exceptional.

I dont just want somone to be ' niceish', take me out for a meal. and then thats it. I want my soul setting on fire.

Sadly for me, this man did that ( and the first man that has in a very very very long time) but he has problems of his own that stop him committing, or cause him to self dystruck the relationship.

If i stayed with him, i would always know that he might do that at any time. Thats not good enough.

Icepick, how old are you? You dont have the biological clock ticking at all do you?
At 30 i already feel too old for all these games and the sadness it produces.

Too old, and too grown up to play these sorts of games.

besides, waiting it out will not change things.

I know this. its his problem. not mine. there is nothing i can do to fix it.

Because its not my problem. its his.

Its just how he is. So, i either have to accept it, or move on.

And im chosing to move on. And should noone come along, who sets me on fire quite like he does ( i dont think anyone has in my life) then, thats just how it is.

I dont regret spending time with him, i just wish he would grow up a bit, thats all.

Hi Icepick,

Don't really have more to add other than to say that you are taking the best care of yourself by knocking this on the head.

I had a relationship similar to the one you describe and it left me an emotional wreck. His words and actions just never matched. He'd be full of "I love yous" and "you're amazings" and hints at future plans when we were together, which I wanted to believe because - more fool me - I loved him. Then I just wouldn't hear from him for four days on the trot. Zip. Nada. Eventually he ended things for good and I was left reeling.

Did/do I have self esteem issues? Probably. Does that mean I deserve to be treated badly? No.

Personally I feel that women rounding on other women and accusing them of being sad, needy and desperate just because they have found themselves in a position where they are putting up with bad behaviour, are being pretty mean. I think most of us have probably been in at least one relationship where we were not being treated well, but found it difficult to leave because we were too emotionally invested in that person. We're human. We get attached. That's life.

thank you.

Thing is. im not putting up with the bad behaviour. We have been back together properly for a fair few months, and in that time he has been great.

Hes only just started behaving this way ( last time was before the summer, and i kicked him into touch then too)

So actually, im not putting up with his bad behaviour at all. Yes, i may have taken him back - because like you say, im emotionally invested in him.

I will probably always be emotionally invested in him. But that doesnt mean ill keep taking him back.

You are also right, self esteem issues or not, noone deserves to be treated badly. I do not have self esteem issues. I do however love him, and it is that, not self esteem issues that made me take him back.

Yes, I can see that you have made the decision to be done with it all, despite the fact that you love him.

That takes guts and strength. Fair play to you. If I had done the same in my situation, I might have saved myself an awful lot of heartache.

oh. do you have a similar story too?

If i were needy and desperate, surely i would just carry on, and let him behave that way?

It takes ( and will take) strenght to stay away from him.

And guts, and if im honest, of course, i would love it to work and be sunshine and flowers.

But i know its not going to, so its best to just leave it, and have it as a time i look back on fondly.

hi Icepick, dont beat yourself up. Have done similar and it is easy to get sucked into feeling you have to pursue a realtionship because what you had was goood and for some inexplicable reason it has just gone.

Some men are cowards and will just dump a woman and ignore her without even having the politeness to tell her face to face that they dont want to see her. Often in this case it is because they are 'keeping their options open' to come back if nothing better comes up.

You dont want to be the person who he comes back to if he feels there is nothing better around.

So chin up you, keep walking forwards, dont look back

MakeYerOwnDamDinner elastaelf - well said I saw the thread earlier today on my way out and didn't have time to post, but thought that the earlier posts were very harsh.

I'm yet another one that tried to forge a relationship with a waste of space like you describe, you're doing well to keep away, fingers crossed that he gets stampeded by a herd of reindeers for being such a twat mixed up man

Thanks. I'm currently resisting the urge to have a massive go at him, to tell him how stupid he is, and how much he has hurt me.
I'm not going to though. There is no point.
I miss him alreAdy.
This is going to be hard.

The last time I tried to do this it was awful. Physically painful. Of course when returned up on my door step.....

Which is why I joined match. I need a distraction. Without one I've not got a hope in hell.

Well some women really are desperate, needy and stupid. So are some men. Some people persist in trying to pursue a relationship with someone who never offered more than the most casual of affairs and was never not honest about this: to chase someone who has clearly stated that they are Not That Into You is both stupid and unethical.
However, some people really get off on tricking/trapping/persuading someone to 'fall in love' with them purely for the thrill to be had by kicking that person in the whatnots. They want to prove to themselves that they can 'make' anyone love them, and the minute that person appears to do so, they despise the person and treat them with contempt.
Icepick, I'm going to offer you a rather useful quote from Jilly Cooper about people like that: 'If you keep turning the switch on and off, eventually the fuse blows and there;s nothing left'.

I like that quote.

Im still resisting the urge to have a go at him.

He never said it was causual. He never said he wasnt into me, He was the one making the sweeping statments, he was the one that moved things forward. I was the hesitant one.

In hindsight, i was right to be hesitant. But i did believe him after a while.

Oh well.
More fool me.

Yes I think that's a good point SGB. I think that often people can be their own worst enemies in continuing to pursue a relationship with someone who has made it clear they are not that interested (I'm not saying the op is doing this, just having a more general discussion.)

But don't you think it is vastly more unethical for the not that interested party to continue to spend time and have sex with the person they know full well is in love with them? They know they are hurting the person yet they continue.

Many years ago I was in this hateful position (and I am so embarrassed to think about it now) where I did desperately pursue someone who did not love me, and who made it clear that there was to be no relationship. That didn't mean he stopped constantly texting me and sometimes spending time and having sex with me though. So there was a relationship of sorts. One that totally fucked me over emotionally. Now I take full responsibility for the fact that I behaved like a silly arse and should have taken better care of myself. Also, that it was not ok to continue to actively pursue him when he had made his feelings clear. I am now older and wiser.

But there was so nastiness in my behaviour - it was just stupid. He on the other hand was being a nasty bastard. He knew exactly how I felt, knew that I was too weak to walk away, yet continued to take everything he wanted whilst giving absolutely nothing back and simultaneously telling all our mutual friends what a pain I was. It was a massively humiliating experience.

So back to my original point. Yes, some women do have self esteem issues - loads of women do actually. Some women are also perhaps desperate and needy at some points in their life. That doesn't mean they deserve to be treated badly. We wouldn't tell a woman who was experiencing physical abuse that she deserved to be hit because she couldn't find the strength and resources to leave her violent partner. Well neither do women deserve emotional abuse and cruelty simply because they are at a low point in their lives and unable to stand up to it.

Hi icepick, you sound very sorted out about this, not needy and desperate. Good for you.

Can I just point out please, that enjoying male company and wanting to go out on dates (cos it's good fun, actually) does not = desperate/needy/low self esteem?

I have been there too and it's hard when you get attached to someone - of course it's going to happen, you are only human! I've also come across this type of individual before - they go all out to 'win your affection', then once you reciprocate you don't see them for dust. Poisonous creatures, best avoided.

SGB - great quote from Jilly Cooper.

"We wouldn't tell a woman who was experiencing physical abuse that she deserved to be hit because she couldn't find the strength and resources to leave her violent partner. Well neither do women deserve emotional abuse and cruelty simply because they are at a low point in their lives and unable to stand up to it".

Very well put Makeyerown, couldn't agree more.

I agree that the type of person you describe is noxious and poisonous. Leading someone on for your own amusement is exceptionally cruel behaviour.

this has been a very interesting thread, good luck icepick with staying strong i hope you find the emotional reserves you need.

It is cruel. And mean. And nasty.

He is not the person i thought he was. And, when he comes creeping back in approx 2 weeks time. ( because he will) I shall just tell him that.

He totally led me on. He asked me to move in with him, he was talking about our future, talking about financial plans for the future, etc.....

He was doing to the talking. Not me.

It wasnt sweeet talking to get me into bed stuff either. It was normally when no sex was going on, sitting up late at night talking type stuff.

It was that stuff that got to me. Im very closed off emotionally, not many people realise that, they think im the most open person there is.

So after a while, i trusted him, and believed what he said.

I dont think he had any intention of any of the things he said to me. I dont know why he said them. That is just nasty.

I feel a fool.

You're not a fool. He is a twat.

I hear what you say icepick. I've been there.

Have just read through the whole thread and some posters have been really, really rude and unpleasant. Not to mention patronising (Yes, you are desperate, cos I say so).

Why aren't you all reserving your nasty comments for the bloke in all this who has behaved appallingly?

Getting attached to someone and believing what they say isn't a crime.