Is it ever possible to have a successful relationship with an active alcoholic?

[Isiteverpossible]

That's just it really... I've always known dh was a drinker but since losing his job earlier this year it has gone from bad to worse - hiding booze, mouth wash in the car, school complaining of him smelling of drink when he picked up dd ( the shame).

I am at my wits end and don't know what to do. My family are overseas. His are crap and our lives are geared round him doing most of the childcare at the moment. We can't afford to pay people but I feel my kids aren't safe.

Help. Please.

Regular namechanger btw. Some people on here know me in real life and I am hideously ashamed of our situation at the moment.

Oh jeez you still don't get it

I am interested, my exh has become an alcoholic since he got with ow, a functioning one! She has alcoholics in her family! I understand that as he was the sort of guy who got plastered once a week he had it in himself to be an alcoholic. I understand his new wife and he drink together so both get plastered, which is not something anyone else on this thread has done by the sounds of it, is that enabling/denial also? I am quite confused by this alcholic thing!

Op, I wonder if the alcoholic thing has crept up on you and that after time your oh has gotten deeper into alcoholisim and you are at that point now of wanting to deal with it, I commend you.

If the school has shown concern that is good in the long run as long as you don't continue to live with your oh! It is really hard to do what you have to. I personally would speak to your gp about your oh. I would then speak to social services, who may have already had an alert made to them, and may be ready to pounce, and speak to them about how they can help monitor your oh and contact. I am looking at this from a point of view that I would hate for you to loose custody which you could. I would hate for you to split and your ex to drink and drive with the children, if you involve social services and anything went to court, your children would be safer than if you didn't. It is a hard decision, and I wish you well. I would also wait until the day after boxing day to seperate and tell the children rather than before if it was me personally!

I think it's best to report someone who encourages dangerous enabling on an alcohol thread

Heroine, it's really obvious from your posts you have no clue about alcoholism and what makes an alcoholic tick. You're just guessing and applying a false rationale to the alcoholics behaviour. Considering you clearly have no clue, a little humility wouldn't go amiss. IN other words, sometimes it's better to accept that your out of your depth

Heroine, I don't think anyone is saying that you should regularly harangue an alcoholic about their drinking despite what you seem to be implying. Instead, what we're saying is that the non-alcoholic typically reaches a point where the only sensible course is to emotionally detach and to turn ones back on the drinking.

Trying to maintain a relationship with an active alcoholic can be utterly overwhelming. Almost without exception I can say that we (that's "we" as in people who have been in relationships with alcoholics) have tried the support and kindness and encouragement tack. And, almost without exception, we've had our support, kindness and encouragement thrown back in our faces along with an extra helping of broken promises and blatant lies to our faces. And typically we'll get all that with a load of threats, abuse, aggression and vitriol to boot.

Living with an active alcoholic can be fucking horrific. Trying to get an alcoholic who doesn't want to stop drinking, to stop drinking, is futile, horrible and often dangerous. My ex physically attacked me once because I made the mistake of pouring the last bottle of wine down the sink.

Living with an active alcoholic and maintaining a long-term effort to try to emotionally prop them up and clean up their messes can drain you completely and leave you feeling like you're going mad. So much of your life and energy is taken up by them and the chaos and drama caused by their choice to continue drinking rather than to seek help.

One alternative is to realise that their drinking is their responsibility to deal with. If they choose to drink rather than to face reality then there will inevitably be bad consequences. I don't see that there is any long-term benefit to anybody in trying to protect an alcoholic from those consequences as, otherwise, how else will they see that they are fucking their lives up and that they need to change the choices they are making?

But I'll be honest - my sympathies lie more with those who find themselves in a relationship with an alcoholic than with the alcoholic. The alcoholic is the one who is making the choice to continue their drinking rather than to do something about it. And let's not forget that no-one has the moral right to insist that another grown-up stops drinking. The non-alcoholic's choice is whether he or she wants to continue being hugely influenced and affected by that drinking or whether to detach and leave the alcoholic to experience the consequences of the choices they are making.

to the op
Is it ever possible to have a successful relationship with an active alcoholic?

In a word - NO

NO- they will drag you down with them, and the children. Alcohol is an unstoppable force. All you can do is jump ship and save yourself.

I haven't read the whole thread I will admit.

I didn't get any further really that he dirves the kids to school, and the school know.

For one if I EVER knew someone had drunk drove, especially with my children in the car, I would report them to the police, husband or not and they would NEVER, EVER drive them again, at least until dry.

Secondly expect SS to take this option of you soon, especially if the school are aware and concerened they have a duty to report it. If they find you are complicit in this it will hit the fan.

I read around the same time someone is encouraging he still is or should be allowed to drink, did I read that right? If so whoever said it is barking.

isiteverpossible, I was where you are three years ago and I feel for you.

I soldiered on for years begging my ex to stop and he never did and felt ashamed to admit what was going on to friends and neighbours. When I finally managed to end our relationship I found that everyone I knew knew he was an alcoholic anyway. Your friends will know too probably. Now I wish I had been absolutely open with what was going on. It is his shame not yours and only he can change his drinking. You need support and seek it by being open with what is happening

Loads of solicitors give half an hour's free advice so find out your rights with regard to your home etc. There's a very good website called "entitled to" which will help you ascertain exactly how much money in benefits you could receive - as a working single parent on tax credits you will receive a lot of help with childcare etc.

Life for me is so much better now - my dcs see their father regularly As long as he is sober whilst he has them I don't care what he does and I don't have to live with that daiy anxiety and disappointment that I used to feel about his drinking.

I really hope this helps

EmmyLou - I think you are being a little naive about how much time social services have on their hands. I used to teach in a school in a very deprived part of London - at one of the parent meetings, only about half a dozen parents turned up and, with one or two exceptions, they were drunk/high/had emotional health issues.

Nearly every single child there was living in a household with serious social problems. If teachers had called social services, nearly all of the children would have been taken into care - hardly a viable situation.

The school in this case are aware of the issue which is why they have flagged it up with the OP.

Drink driving is a matter for the police, not social services.

You wrote: "Secondly expect SS to take this option of you soon, especially if the school are aware and concerened they have a duty to report it. If they find you are complicit in this it will hit the fan."

Any decent teacher, having flagged up the problem, would only take any further steps to involve outside agencies if they felt that the problem had not been corrected (bearing in mind that this would be one of a large number of issues that the teacher would be juggling with).

You have no idea whether this is the case, so perhaps you should take your social services threats elsewhere.

I hope the OP has sought help for the situation that she finds herself and has taken steps to ensure the safety of her children.

tadpoles, by contrast, my children had 18 months of Social Services involvement, including a period of time on the Child Protection Register, as a direct result of my ex's alcohol problems. SS's primary concern was my ex's habit of drinking to the point of unconsciousness while "caring" for our DCs.

Now, in my DC's case, the school knew my ex sometimes turned up smelling strongly of alcohol to pick up our DCs but chose not to do anything about it (or even to simply tell me ). The school's concerns only came to light when the head was invited to the child protection case conference. But it was clear that SS saw such actions as yet more evidence of my ex's alcohol issues.

I've read most of the thread. I posted recently I have a drink problem.
However..
I would never drink and drive. My DC are my reason for living. My DC are confident, happy and well cared for.
I hold down a demanding responsible job. I pay my taxes. I've never been arrested/cautioned for anything, I dont even have a parking ticket.
I'm ashamed that I can't stop drinking at the moment. I want to but can't at the moment.
Many opinions on this thread shout loud, that I am (and people like me) are abhorrent low life's, who should be cast out and shunned.
Now to be true to the stereotype(alcoholics risk of suicide is very high apparently) the thoughts posted here have made me think for my loved ones sake, my suicide would be a lesser of evils. Don't worry the thoughts passed, for now.
My point is are all people who cannot currently control their addictions are not a homogeneous group of monsters, who would willingly sacrifice everything for their fix.
I think no one ever completely fits a stereotype.

WitzEnd, I'm glad that your choices concerning your drinking have not (yet) had bad consequences.

Can I ask what advice you would give the OP given that her DH seems not to be as careful as you?

WitzEnd I don't think most people here think alcoholics are low-lifes. [Some very close family members of mine are alcoholics].
But because this is an advice thread for a spouse of an alcoholic, rather than for an alcoholic him/herself, the advice and approach has to be different.
Alcoholism is complex, it is painful, the person is lovely and good without the alcohol.. [as an aside, some of the most fascinating people I've ever met were alcoholics]; but I think people in a a relationship with an alcoholic have to understand the dangers of enabling

Witzend - I think that most people on this thread are castigating alcoholics who fail in their duty of care to their DC and family. You say that is not the case for you - so you are not among the people being castigated here.

I for one, and I believe most others here, are discussing the people for whom alcohol is the first priority in their life - again, you don't appear to fit in that "stereotype" - so I think you are being sensitive to comments that are not about "people like you". You have chosen to place yourself in the "line of fire" for these comments, despite saying you don't fit the stereotype - why?

It may be possible to save your relationship but that can't happen now.

First you need to take control, and make sure your children are safe. Someone who drinks and drives with their children is out of control.

Have you talked to your DH? He needs to know that this has to stop. At the moment it is a bit too easy for him to hide from reality.

The you need to wait and see if he will take help, and stop drinking. If he does that, then yes your relationship might have a chance. But it is really down to him. You can't be trying to save it while he drinks.

My DB and SIL have a happy, strong relationship. My brother is an alcoholic but doesn't drink any more. When his drinking peaked it was touch and go but SIL got tough and said change or leave. Thank god she did, she saved his life. We didn't know how bad things were til he told us.

In a word no..I have been where you are (DH wasnt drinking every day but binge drinking beyond control at weekends and spending £30-£40 a week on alcohol)

We seperarted in the summer (his choice later found out he was having an affair) however in October we did start having date nights etc and generally getting on, then one Thursday he got absolutley plastered (I had taken the dd's out for the day) when we got home he was shouting at dd1 (6) that he was going to kill himself, he was aggresive in his tone (although he would never hit me/dd's he did punch a hole in teh door) I had to have him removed from house (managed to get dd's out and in the car) his parents had him taht night and I had a barrage of texts/calls till I turned mobile/home phone off. This was the first time it had got that out of control but previously he would stay up till 3/4am drinking and therefore not be bale to function and interact with me and the dd's the next day, he simply didnt know how to have 1 or 2 drinks then stop he had to drink to pass out (this had been happening on and off for around 3 years)

The next day after the 'big' incident he turned up to apologise..I refused to let him in te house and took his door key off him it was the final wake up call for him and he went to Doctors and seeked help. He now attends a one to one meeting every Tuesday with a councillor (they also provided him with a 24 hour helpline number) he also attends AA group meetings once a week. He sees teh dd's with me or his parents around and yesterday was the first day that I let him take dd2 out on her own (she had a party to go to and I was at work and DD1 with my dad) He hasnt drank since that day but he is first to admit it is very hard and there are times he has been tempted but he knows one mroe drink and his contact with dd's goes. In time he would like us to rebuild our marriage but I have explained that there is so much to do before we can consider that.

I hope he gets help for you and your dc sake but with my dh he had to be ready to ask and accept the help it wouldnt have worked till he realsied he had a problem

Snorbs:
Can I ask what advice you would give the OP given that her DH seems not to be as careful as you?
I'm the child of an alcoholic who lost all control. When someone loses all control such as the OP's husband, there is nothing to be done until they get themselves into recovery. IMO there is no way the OP's children be left in care of their father whilst he is at that stage. Its utterly unacceptable and abhorrent to drive a car whilst drunk and even more so with children in the car.

thumbpuddingwitch:
despite saying you don't fit the stereotype - why?
As a child of an alcoholic, I'm totally ashamed that I ever picked up a drink never mind developed a problem with it. I'm totally ashamed of myself.

I still think that alcoholism, like other types of damaging addiction, is a type of illness and should be treated as such. I don't mean tiptoeing around as an enabler, I just mean accept that the person has a serious mental/psychological condition (inability to control intake of alcohol) which needs treating. I agree it is the problem of the alcoholic, rather than the partner but the partner MAY be able to influence them in terms of seeking help.

Another aspect of this is that alcoholism is a term which covers a very wide spectrum of drinking behaviour. Sounds like the OPs partner's heavy drinking has tipped into a more out of control situation.

OP - have you googled the Sinclair Method? Someone mentioned it on another thread and it seems to be quite promising for those people who have tried total abstinence (eg: the traditional AA programme) but keep falling off the wagon. Worth a try.

Snorbs - that sounds like a horrible situation.

witzend - am really :( for you. Have you thought about going to AlAnon yourself? Not AA (I know the difference) yet, but if you go to AlAnon you might find others have had similar experiences and share your 'shame' - or guilt - might help to explore the whys of it, and alleviate your personal feelings, which may in turn help with any fear that you may have that you are turning into your parent.

I'm also the child of an alcoholic father who my mum let pick me up from school (and friend's houses) when she knew he had been drinking.

Two things I remember vividly: 1) the looks of disgust on my friend's parents faces as my dad stumbled up to the door, barely capable of speaking. I stopped being invited for tea after that.
2) feeling absolutely petrified as he swerved around the road. I still can't drive on motorways or other fast roads as I get panic attacks.

Isiteverpossible, I think you are forgetting what the effect will be on your children of allowing them to be put in this dangerous situation. You DH may not kill them while drink driving but the lack of protection from both of you will harm them.

Would you be happy to let someone who was drunk be charge of a car that you were in? So why are you letting a drunk person drive your children?

Feelingveryscared - I am so sorry to hear your experiences.

I am forgetting nothing and am dealing with my situation. I was asking after advice on relationships primarily. The whole thing is a disaster from start to finish and I have never felt so lonely and sad .

If you can stay strong now the future will be better.

Isitever - am so :( for you having to face this, especially with Christmas coming up. Do you think that he will "behave" over Christmas, or are you dreading an episode then as well?

There are other posters not on this thread who have alcohol issues - can I suggest that you PM MIFLAW for example, a self-confessed alcoholic who often pops up on threads on alcoholism? He has some useful words of wisdom but usually only when the person in question accepts their problem and is ready to deal with it. He may be able to help give you the other side of it if you PM him.

If your DH cannot accept he has a problem with alcohol, then he will not change. If he doesn't change, then you cannot have a successful relationship with him without jeopardising the emotional/mental wellbeing of you and your DC - and their future capacity for successful relationships.

If, OTOH, he can accept there is a problem and seeks help for it; chooses to stop drinking and start prioritising his family over alcohol, then there is some hope for your relationship.

Good luck - have an unMNly ((hug)) - and please do chat to MIFLAW, or go to AlAnon and talk to them.

Isiteverpossible, I am so sorry that you are feeling so lonely and sad. When there is an alcoholic in the family, everyone is affected and sometimes it is just really shit.

I wanted you to see it from your children's perspective - I knew that my dad was out of control and that my mum allowed me to be in that situation. I didn't feel protected by either of them and I felt (and still do feel) the shame of it. You said that you were ashamed by the school complaining that your DH smelt of drink when he picked up your children. From my experience, they will feel it too, internalise it and go through life thinking that that is want they deserve.

But you have the opportunity to do things differently to my parents and you can do it. I think that you are brave to have come back despite all the flaming that you have received. Find some more strength over the Xmas holidays and start putting boundaries up over what is acceptable for your childrens lives. Really wishing you & our chidren all the best.