"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional families thread

[MummieHunnie]

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

@ gb and the overloaded chaotic boat...at least the buggers all got in!

Heh, Mizzy, only three of the people on my Crazy Cruise liner are still in my life - family members, and not much 'in' my life anyhow. The others have long gone but I still tend to judge myself by their criteria. Bloody big fleas, the lot of them - hope they don't jump right off that ship! I really did fill up my life with fucking narcissists; now I've taken them out, there's nobody left. Not sure whether that's a :( or :)

Whichever, it's proof my parents made me 'fit for purpose'. Re-purposing myself has turned out to be a necessarily solitary endeavour. I'm quite scared of forming any new relationships! The only way I know how to do it works like a charm with narcs, but I'm far from sure I've got any skills for building equally & mutually positive friendships. Time will tell, I gues. At least I've got a halfway decent relationship with myself for the first time.

I think forgiveness means something different for everyone. Falling back on my over-used metaphor, for me it's like forgiving a pet. Mine pukes on the carpet and scratches the wallpaper off. She's following her instincts, can't understand why I want to her stop and does it anyway. I don't like her doing it and I have to repair the damage she causes. But I've got to forgive her or fight an unwinnable cause, iyswim?

Ok me and my fleas...the extract below...comes from a site posted my another MNer on another thread - but is the best description I have found relevant to me personally...

www.lightshouse.org/fleas-fleas-fleas.html

Now this is me to a 'T'...

"Let's take just one possible example to illustrate...

Because of growing up with a narcissist, you're used to being criticized to death, and for the tiniest thing, so when you graduate from your university and get a job, it may hurt to hear negative feedback about your work. Because you've never experienced healthy, well-intentioned and helpful input from others about how you're doing, you only associate feedback with hatred and oppression and shame and rejection and attempts to violate your sensibilities - your dignity - your humanity. Feedback was always to make you the bad one - the wrong one.

Other people -- people whose parents did not have NPD - give their children positive reinforcement and supportive feedback. Those people have learned to associate feedback with assistance - with helpful kindness. They won't go to "crazy-land" like you will when they get their performance review. They will feel helped. You will feel attacked. They will feel curious. You will feel inadequate. They will feel openness. You will feel fear. They will say, "Thank you, I'll work on that". You will go home and cry.

And you probably do the only thing you've ever seen people do when they're criticized - you get defensive and criticize right back. You have to, right? The person must be out to get you - that's what feedback IS - a personal attack! So maybe you point the finger and refuse to hear them, or else, you're going to be emotionally destroyed by them. You've seen that work.

And that looks like narcissism, doesn't it? You're not accepting input from others about what you could do better. You feel deeply ashamed that you haven't been perfect - that's what you've been taught - if you're not perfect, you're a piece of trash who has to take all the blame for everything that's wrong, and all the blame for those who refuse responsibility."

...so where feck do I start...

---------

gb

Hmm...I have no immediate family either gb worth a fig and only two real friends.

I sort of see this time as being a bit like doing a party list...who shall I pick with my fresh eyes to join me in my celebration of free life?? A clean slate/new beginning...from now on my choices of who to invite on my new journey really are all mine.

I get the pet analogy. I suppose we both - each in our own ways - have just chosen to give up the fight...either through pacification or just not bothering...both ways are 'right' for each of us for now??

It seems fleas wear off once you distance yourself from the dysfunctional people...just as you pick up fleas without encouraging them...they eventually jump off all by themselves too. Phew!

www.outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/Fleas.html

Do you know, Mizzy, you've just done me the biggest favour! I really hadn't seen my future relationships as a party list, or much of my choice at all. I'm still focused on what to take out; hadn't even considered that the whole point of this is to become free & able to choose what goes in! Thank you ever so much :)

I've read, very recently (I think on here) someone saying their counsellor guided them through their first few weeks with an actual Nice Man. I've run out of NHS therapy and can't afford private - I felt huge envy for that person! If I ever (haha) date again, I'll have to monitor myself constantly for all the unhealthy hoop-jumping that's formed part of my relationships until now. Damn.

I read that about FLEAS wearing off quite soon, too - I've also read Freud, Jung and current psychology on "folie a deux", which also states you get over it after a short while. I think this is a lie. In my observation & experience, it takes conscious effort and plenty of time, plus seeking out new experiences to validate new pathways. I don't know how these people think we're supposed to automagically overwrite synapses formed in childhood, when our brains were most malleable, in a few weeks or months. Balderdash, I say!

Perhaps they're simply relating clinical findings - which are the bane of my life. I know all the good stuff, so my questionnaire responses belie my lived experience. Makes me very cross, can you tell??!

Giving up the fight is what these threads are all about, isn't it? For as long as we struggle to gain & maintain parental approval, we are slaves to mad men and women. Once we get that THEY WON'T CHANGE - and can't change, even - we're on the road to becoming ourselves. When it's your parents, though, that's a massive conceptual challenge. Parents can be mad, bad and dangerous to know but everything inside us, and most social opinion, insists "it can't be so". But it can. And, for some of us, it is so.

I really should have used a different expression from yours - it's not so much giving up the fight as stepping away from it, isn't it? Choosing not to play; walking to safer place.

Yes gb I think all the 'work' we do is hopefully to achieve a state of calm and inner balance so "stepping away from it" is a far better phrase than "giving up".

I was also thinking about the FLEAS thing last night...I think some FLEAS do just jump off through detachment...others such as my ishoo with finding authority figures intimidating are perhaps more ingrained...maybe some FLEAS do actually become part of who we are and all we can do is learn to accommodate them??

I am hoping that due to detaching and being surrounded by 'average' people in everyday life...doing the shopping, chatting in the street etc, that over time this will be enough to overwrite and create new 'good' pathways...I think sometimes people run about looking for the 'big' solution when it's the little things that make the biggest change in us??

Anyhoo...tiz the weekend and the sun is shining...off to get dressed and potter outside for the day. Take care all...xx

I've started to let people into my life. Some people who were always there, but I held at a considerable distance.

Because I am a muso, I know a lot of people who are in the biz because like me, they were forced into it by narc parents who wanted to bask in the reflected glory. I have "come clean" about my circumstances, and astonishingly have found that others have come down a similar path, and even sone who have gone NC with their parents!! Who'd have thought!!???

I am identifying triggers, am on a roll I think!

This week, a very famous comic actor came to our house, was talking about a girl singer who is going to be featured on the x factor later in the year. (Groan) I started to get to sick feeling, the panic, the flashback stuff. I was beautifully behaved, no one could have guessed how wretched I felt.

I've thought this through. I have always been labelled as jealous. When I first started singing, it was as back up for goldenchild sister. I was never allowed to be at the front, to sing lead etc, always in the background. It was SOOOO unfair. (see right now I feel like a child, this triggers me so much) I had to hide, to be there to make her look good only.

So I am not jealous, I feel as though I am disapearing again, and I hate it. This isn't about singing....it's about me not being allowed to exist in my own right.

Then I thought some more....if I went into someone's home/ work, and started going on about how brilliant someone else was at their job....ANYONE would feel uncomfortable. It is insensitive and rude! If I'd gone to this guys house and started to say how wonderful John Bishop was, HE would feel uncomfortable.

Another shackle of someone elses labelling and definition of me falls away. I'm not "consumed with jealousy", merely having perfectly normal reactions to someone else's insensitivity. With a shed load of dysfunctional baggage to deal with at the same time!

thisishowifeel: that sounds great being able to identify like that and also realise that it's not about you but about them - HE was being a bore, insensitive and rude. That's brilliant :)

I've done something positive too - I was recommended (independently) a book for kids called Bullies, Bigmouths and So Called Friends. My dses don't have friend issues, but it sounded really good (and might help them identify behaviours that their grandmother uses!) and with ds1 heading off to secondary school soon it could be really useful.

They arrived today (I got them both a copy) and quickly skimmed through and it's GREAT - and probably relevant for me too! Had good visualisation exercises and lots of positive strategies for dealing with bullying situations. I'm also feeling a little sad that I had never learned these myself as a kid - I had a miserable time in school. Now I realise a lot of that misery was that I had such little self-esteem from the situation at home that I was an obvious target for bullying at school.

But anyway, I feel like I've helped add to their armour a little.

(sorry, meant to add to that - by independently I meant not as part of the narcissistic parent thing, but during a conversation with another parent about kids' self confidence and dealing with bullies at school).

Hello stately homers - have just added some of my childhood experience to the 'how were you smacked' thread.

It occured to me that I would find it really helpful to be able to put some of the worst incidents of my childhood down in writing.

Since my parents really were pretty psychotic most of what I have to say is horrible and not for unsuspecting posters on a conversational thread to have to find/read/respond to.

Do you think it would be ok for me to post that here though? I hasten to add that I have had counselling for this but would just be helpful to put it down in black and White for my own selfish reasons if and when I can find the courage to do so?

Hello BIBI!

It would be more than ok.

We find that people sharing their experiences can help everybody, sometimes in quite unexpected ways, a new way of looking at something, or a different way of dealing with things. So even if you only write about your stuff, you will find that it almost always helps someone else here. Which is brilliant. :)

I've found people's experiences really helpful over the last few weeks - as quite often it has triggered my own memories, things I'd pushed deep down or forgotten, and helped me view them in a new light.

Bibi-welcome. I am sorry you had such a horrible time growing up. Posting here and reading about others has been so helpful to me, and I hope it will be for you, too.

I started out (until 3 1/2 or 4 years ago)believing that I had a 'normal' childhood. HA! Joke definitely on me for that one. Family myth-I know what they're talking about.

The pendulum swings to the other side and sometimes I find myself doubting everything. Was the whole package a lie? I think that is too hard to contemplate so I am picking at it piecemeal. The whole package was definitely processed through crap filters of my mother's mental health/alcoholic issues.

Mizzy, thanks for the lighthouse link. I think I had read that a while ago, but it is good to review. Sometimes with all the swirling stuff in my head about dealing with this, some readings don't stick as well as others, or as well as the should.

Similar to trying to remember in the moment that the triggers are associated with Complex-PTSD. The Pete Walker counselling is helpful in identifying dynamics. No wonder it is hard to govern responses.

Waves to Thisis, Snowdrop, Garlic, RubberDuck-and hopefully Grace if you're lurking.

This thread has been recommended to me by dittany. I can't read it all through as it is a bit overwhelming, not only in size but content. I've read a bit and will go back and read more - it's 'good' to know I'm not the only one with a poisonous family. If I make any faux pas, please bear with me - it may take some time to pick up on the lingo.

Hello Stately Homers

Is it appropriate to tell my story? Or does one only tell bits of their story - please tell.

BB, I'm well chuffed to see you here! I followed your "about him" and "about me" threads - and did pick up on what you said about your mum. No surprise, then, that you tolerated two (?) relationships with self-entitled fuckwits. So, not happy that your childhood was such a let-down but happy you're learning better ways to be.

Hi, mm, too :) Yes, whatever you like. People are reading without judging.

Thanks everyone, will start to clear the ole skeletons out of the cupboard on here soon.

Yes think my past had a lot to do with my choice of men garlicbutter. I have known about this thread for ages but always feels so self indulgant for me to still be talking about this stuff at my age.

Plus some things I'm actually still so embarrassed about even though it wasn't my fault.

When i was around 8 years old my parents decided that the roles of the family dog and i should be reversed.

That's exactly what happened as well, I got given a tin of dog food for dinner and forced to wear the dogs collar and leash while my little brother and father kicked my arse up and down the hallway.

Its really difficult to have as much self esteem as i should because somewhere inside i still feel like that 'human dog'

Sorry, bit heavy that

Christ, BB, that's harsh. I'm so sorry for the little girl you were. You must have wondered what made your brother 'human' while you didn't merit the name :(

Don't know what it is about dogs and bullying parents but I had a fair amount of canine treatment, too (no collar, though). I suppose it's part of dehumanising the target - as dictators have done throughout the ages, to make it easier for others to victimise them. It's an unspeakably vile way to treat anyone, let alone your own child

Poor you. What sort of terms are you & your brother on now?

Hello BB and welcome

Its not too heavy any thing you need to write here you can and we will read and we will never judge you.

Please stop feeling embarrassed for the abuse you have suffered. None of it was your fault and its not who you are.

I like to think that there are some people in this world that can see us as we are and not for what happened to us.

I dont think i'm explaining it very well:

I find my self using the behaviour i see my mum use and how i was show to - that it was normal but it is not. My husband can see the real me the kind, caring, loving, bright and happy woman. But sometimes my behaviour is just not normal because of what i grow up with. He does not shout at me or hold it agenst me as he knows what i went throu and understands that i have problemes sometimes.

But i learn from him to try and see what is normal and what is not. I try to be as kind and careing as him but i find it hard most of the time as i am so used to fighting to protect myself. I have so many walls putup around me that i have known people for 6 years and they still feel like they are on the outside.

My husband has said when he makes a mistake and triggers me he can visable see my walls shout up. Yesterday i projected my crap on my inlaws they were only trying to help but i saw it as controling and interfering and blamed my husband but putting it throu my none hurt filter i think it was just kind perants wanting to help there son and grandson do what they want - go camping

What my family put me thru was so complex that i think i will never get rid of all of it but if i try that hopefully my son will be a little bit better than me and his kids too?

Because of what happened to me i never let anyone in, i'm always on my guard, i find people who are sociable strand and i just dont get it and i'm suspious of it. I find it hard that pearents can have a life and friends. I find not smaking or hitting my son hard as thats how i was showen. I find it hard to be kind.

Why is it so hard, why do i even have to try to be caring, why is it not just natural for me? [crying emoicon]

Sorry thats long and self indulgent

I just wanted to welcome newcomers and say that posting helps and that we will read and not judge

Just sneaked back still feeling a bit god why did i get that one out of the bag.

Thank you for your comments garlicbutter and snowdropfairy.

By and large I have dealt with my past and never use it as an 'oh poor me, everyone listen to me' kind of thing.

There are just a few incidents that keep coming back and contribute to me feeling almost worthless some days so to air these here will hopefully take the edge off a bit more.

It's not a subject you can talk about very often a violent childhood i mean, at least in my opinion. Partners reactions have ranged from denial to wanting to find the perpetrators and do them some harm (not helpful at all that stance, strangely)

My counsellor just kept repeating how horrible it was for me and making me feel really weird for not being in floods of tears at all the things id lost/never had.

Youre spot on as well re. wondering what made my brother human and not I. It was always made very clear to me though that he was a king because he was/is a boy and that females are not worth anything.

I can honestly say though that I never held his behaviour against him as children. He was such a sweet natured boy really and we loved each other to bits right from when he was a baby.

I could see even then that he was made into their puppet for their sick amusement. Sadly I lost touch with him when i was 18 and moved to England.

He'd gone off the rails a bit by then and was in care himself (told me they turned on him after i finally managed to run away)

My foster mother refused to give me his address which id stupidly left behind as he had gotten himself in trouble with the police and she didn't want me to be involved in all of that.

He was only 14 then FGS!!!!! I've never forgiven myself for not insistjng she hand over the address. I just had no language to stand up against a parental figure back then :(

Well, this is quite the essay, thanks again for letting me put all this down

Bibi, I don't know what to say. It sounds horrific :( Do keep posting.

Snowdropfairy. Not at all self-indulgent and actually very helpful. I realise now that I have a tendency to project on to my ILs what I'm used to expecting from parental-child relationships when they're loving and normal.

I loathe family gatherings, have come to view them as a source of stress and judgement rather than something fun to do. Whereas dh's family is very large and sociable and tend to do loads together. I find that really hard. I'd put it down to me naturally being an introvert, but I wonder how much of it is down to my mental link of family gatherings = large group of narcissists = something to avoid at all costs.

BB - ((((((((hugs))))))))) How every you feel is right for you. its also ok for those feels to change. You sound very brave and strong to me. Sometimes feels dont make you weak that make you strong. Its ok to show emotion.

I dont feel anything about what they did in the past as i was a very angry teen and acted out a lot. But know i just want some space from them. They cant say anything that will change the past and they cant ever say sorry for what they did.

Rubber duck - ((((hugs)))

www.donnamartin.net/articles/wonderchild.htm

is lovely. :)

Funny, I was really close to my next-in-age brother through childhood and early adulthood. He was the Golden Boy to my Scapegoat but we tried to stick up for one another as best we could in that freakish environment. As young adults, we used to joke about being the only people who understood us! We had no idea how true that was.

These days I have to keep a distance from him. I feel very sad about that. I don't think he has a PD but he's so full of FLEAS, it makes little real difference. He's married to his second crazy wife now; his kids have peculiar values. And so it goes on ... :(

I talked to my mum about being made to go & eat off the ground at the end of the garden, "like a dog". She said no, that can't have happened, or maybe it happened only once, or maybe it was a joke. WTF?? Then again, she's bonkers as well. (Dad's dead, thank goodness.)

Bibi, I rarely cry either. I used to get thwacked for crying, so learned to do it only under very intense pressure (and not for long). I have to say "I feel like crying" instead!