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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But we took you to Statley Homes" Dysfunctional families thread

1000 replies

MummieHunnie · 15/12/2010 13:15

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
MizzyDizzy · 17/03/2011 17:36

I thought the comment was rather nice too gb...after I understood what she meant. Blush

I've just gotta learn to be less defensive and must have a rummage under the sofa for my 'self belief'...it's gotta be here somewhere! Wink

chuckieegg2008 · 17/03/2011 19:36

hi everyone, just need to talk to people who will understand what im goign through :( Two years ago i cut off all ties with my dad and felt like a stronger person i felt like i was getting somewheere in my life and got a job promotion which increased my confidence in myself.

Now hes coming back into my life, my brother is getting married and he will be attending the wedding. I dont know how to deal with this situation i feel scared about how i will react to seeing him i just dont feel like a strong person anymore. All my confidence has gone and its affecting my job. I just dont know what to do :(

thisishowifeel · 17/03/2011 19:59

RD...it doesn't sound remotely melodramatic. These people rape your life.

My "mother" hated any kind of success or happiness that I ever found, because I think it ruined her idea of me as being evil, demonic, lazy, a leach, blah, blah.

When I got engaged, her remark was NOT congratulations, but; If I'd had an engagement ring, it would have been like that. Or when I had my first MC, oh this happens to women every day, stop being such a wimp, and you really don't need me to visit. When ds was seriously ill, in isolation, and I dared to cry, she told me to pull myself together and stop being so selfish. That was her only visit.

Blimey....another revelation, only one of those is a nice thing!

I have felt like shit all day today. I hate...REALLY FUCKING HATE that she STILL has this power/legacy. It's shit.

That comment above though is right: Normal people think that it's REALLY FUCKING WEIRD that a member of your family want to do you down all the time. My Dad's family are beyond words. Although older members are, I suspect, not remotely surprised.

Chuckieegg....I have no advice, but a ton and a half of empathy. I get stressed being within 40 miles of them! Just on the offchance maybe at a shopping centre or something...I have my radar ON, so I can dart away and....once again.....hide. :(

garlicbutter · 17/03/2011 21:43

Hide? Or choose to turn & walk in the other direction?

RubberDuck · 17/03/2011 21:59

chuckie - at the very least could you persuade your brother to make sure on the seating plan that you are as far away from your father as possible?

chuckieegg2008 · 17/03/2011 22:06

Thanks thisis and Rubberduck I will ask my bro if I can sit as far away as possible, only problems is it's only a small wedding.

TeachMySelfBalance · 17/03/2011 22:10

More thanks to you Attila.
The reviews ring bells and adds reinforcement of my truth.

The gifts . After my mother (alcoholic N/bipolar) died when I was 18, my father (denial/enabler) would not shop for us for Christmas gifts. He would give us $200 and we had to buy our gifts, wrap them, and have them under the tree 'from him' on Christmas morning. It wasn't until about a year ago (I'm 49) that I really started to question this. Just so invisible, yet such a puppy for having enjoyment in little shopping spree. Come to think of it, I still buy Christmas gifts for myself; it is the only time that I can actually answer-"What do I want?". And I have felt it is ok with me to buy my own gifts and not need anything from anyone else. Is that a piece of twisted brainwashing or what?

The other points about gifts are what my N sister did/does. Asks me for suggestions/wants to know what I'm getting the dc so she can do 10x bigger...while redefining any little thing I suggested for myself.

Also I have come to believe the gifts (and other expenditures-show tickets, dinners out, etc) are a way for her to purchase a license to have me (or her target) as a subordinate. She is owed, therefore she has the moral high ground. I eventually told her no more expensive gifts for me or the dc. Oh the indignation, but I held firm. The only contact I have with her now is birthdays and Christmas and that is gifts in the mail. She tends to send me what I send her...no matter that her favorite store (gift card) is not mine.

But I still have a bit of FOG, myself, Attila, because I have toyed with the wonderous idea of just skipping the gifts all together and just send a card. We're 50 fgs. It is always so contentious, I don't need a blasted gift from her for anything.

I have trained myself to just not think about it. Use a company that will ship/deliver so I don't actually have to touch it, and my thank you notes are two lines: Thanks for . It is much appreciated.

Still rankles...spewing out another long post over it.

TeachMySelfBalance · 17/03/2011 22:27

Garlicbutter, congratulations on a workable strategy. Please stay on your guard though.

Rubberduck, I love the 'how to talk to kids' book too. I think your children will have a sense of what is wacko and what is not by this time. IMHO, you can start to debrief them when bad feelings are manufactured by her. General statements about the behavior to explain some dynamics, and then acknowledging their existence and intelligence say that their granny is one of those people who thinks it is ok to treat people this way.

On mother's voice in your head, just tell her to shut the fuck up. There, end of. Wink

I had thought I was able to cope with N sister. She lives 80 miles away so didn't see her that often. But I got to the point of telling myself that I had to shift myself into a 'special gear' to survive the exposure. That special gear turned out to be dormancy (hello, depression). Counsellor said it wasn't mentally healthy for me to be around her. That piece of truth and clarity finally made it ok for me to detach...3 years ago on Saturday. Now there is a Happy Anniversary. Grin

TeachMySelfBalance · 18/03/2011 02:19

Yes, hiding.
I hope you are feeling better ThisishowIfeel. I realized that the entirety of my college career was spent hiding at my desk in the design studio. Of course the hours put in were acknowledged so on one level it was a good thing/somewhat expected. But I now know that for me, in my circumstances, there was a completely different dynamic going on. I just realized this about 3 weeks ago.

Now as a sahm, I hide more, behind children fgs. When I quit my job, I had no regrets. Did not miss it. I would probably still sieze up with professional paranoia at the liabilities: it was easy to fixate on the idea that clients/contractors would target me. I was trained all through childhood to expect to be treated that way. Stress, panic attacks, anxiety.

But attaching my expectations to what I think others are thinking isn't fair to them-I need to respect them enough to let them do their own thinking.

I get what you are saying about having the transformation in private, garlicbutter. It is a private thing after all. I would say it is like cultivating a nice garden, but sorry, not open to the public. And at the time of unveiling the transformations, well, public opinion is not allowed (in my brain) at this time.

It is still working on identity, me-ness...but the ultimate point is to evolve into the ability to accept fellowship from others (and give them the chance to accept it from me) without all this personal baggage ruining it every single time. To actually want to be in a group without feeling like I am a charity case, or am forcing my presence on others who merely tolerate me: I don't think I'll ever be normal. Sad

Yes/yet, chipping paint seems attractive, Thisis. Thanks for the invite. And you can come over here sometime too. I don't have radiators, but we would undoubtedly find something to do-maybe watch all the versions of Phantom of the Opera, or comb the carpet.

Snowdropfairy · 18/03/2011 08:44

Hi Everyone

Is there any links for "shielding" or anyother detatching techniques?

I have just check my moblie and i have a missed call from my Dad i'm shacking and i feel like a hole has opened up under me.

They have left me alone for 17 days and now the calls and shouting will start and i'm scared and feel like i 5 again Sad

RubberDuck · 18/03/2011 08:49

Oh no, Snowdropfairy :(

I haven't got a link for you, but I read about it recently (I just can't remember which book). I googled for you and found this:

Too Much Empathy?

"Emotional shielding is visualizing a barrier between you and the other person. This barrier allows the words to get through, but stops their feelings from getting through to you. Your shield will be personal for you. That is, it can be whatever you think will do the job to protect you. Your shield can be a curtain, a brick or steel wall, a shade, force field, or battle shield. There are many ways to visualize your shield."

In the book I read it said it was important to remember to visualise the shielding BEFORE you have contact - so before you pick up the phone take a few deep breaths, visualise the shield then speak to them.

(I am a sad RPGer and I visualise my shield like one of the shimmery blue mage ones you get in Dragon Age Grin)

RubberDuck · 18/03/2011 08:51

Perhaps as well you could make sure you stand/sit in a defensive way while you speak? Practice looking and sounding disinterested? If you look calm and in control then perhaps that would carry through to your voice?

Snowdropfairy · 18/03/2011 09:14

Thanks

I think i will start now. My shield is a big iron battel shield like a knight would have Grin with a griffin on it Grin

There is a magpig in my garden and i keep thinking its fortelling sorrow and that something bad is going to happen to me because i'm being disrepectful to my mum and dad and that i have no right to my own life and that i'm in the wrong. I feel so bad right now. I keep telling my self that this is not true and its just a bird building its nest but its so not working right now Sad

My mum was exstrimly supersitutous (sp?) and would go mad at me if i split the salt or put shoes on the table etc. Its so deeply engrained in me its so hard to break free from it Sad

Snowdropfairy · 18/03/2011 09:16

Magpie Blush

RubberDuck · 18/03/2011 09:26

Yeah, it's foretelling THEIR sorrow now that you've decided to stand up for yourself Grin

I'm feeling very angry and fighty this morning. Don't know how long that will last. I suspect that, like you, as soon as the phone rings my stomach is going to go through the floor again.

Actually, I think I'm partially angry with myself for letting myself be intimidated by a 64 year old woman and giving her all the power.

MizzyDizzy · 18/03/2011 09:30

Hi Snowdropfairy

I'm due to go out at any minute...but wanted to help you before I went...so I apologise for any abruptness.

Here's a link for several 'releasing' techniques...

beyond-within.com/blog/energy-work/energy-cords-working-with-them-for-emotional-freedom/

...and personally I found this visualisation very helpful.

I visualised the person I wanted to release sitting in a boat tied to the shore, in a beautiful, sun dappled, wooded lakeland area. Then gradually the boat would untie itself and float off gently into the distance with me watching and the person to be released still in the boat...further and further away...until I could see them no more.

This exercise for me was very therapeutic, I found myself crying during the exercise and actually saying goodbye without venom...it was just sad to do.

Snowdropfairy · 18/03/2011 09:36

They have years to prefect their techniques dont beat your self up. At least you now know what she is doing so you can defened yourself.

My mum is 69 and my dad is 73 the are so crul its unreal. I have a 47 year old sister and a 45 year old sister and they still dont get them. They still fight for their attention and hurt each other to get it. They are all fucked up and depressed but they dont see it at all.

I'm 28 and can see its all wrong but they just dont get it and dont want to listen to me when ii tryed to show them so i just dont want anything to do with any of them.

My pearents and my ex-brother used to beat me and put me down and just negleted me.

I have just told my husband that they called me and he told me to call them because if they bothered to call me then something must be very wrong Sad

They normal just dont bother with me unless they had a bad day and just want a punching bag and someone to shout at Sad

I'm not going to call them back i realy dont care any more, i have had enough. They can all be dead for all i care. I dont want to know.

RubberDuck · 18/03/2011 09:43

Mizzy - that looks brilliant, thanks for that link.

Snowdrop - good for you. I think I'm reaching that point too. I realised last night that I actually didn't love her anymore. I haven't liked her for a long while. I think my need to seem the good daughter and care about what she was doing and how she was feeling has blinded me to the fact that, while I feel obligated towards her, I don't actually love her. :(

You know that saying about "You can't win, you can't break even, you can't quit the game"? Well it's wrong really isn't it. You can quit the game because you can refuse to play.

It's the collateral damage I'm most concerned about now (i.e. the kids)

thisishowifeel · 18/03/2011 09:46

What a beautiful, calm visualisation.

I was in John Lewis, shortly after I broke contact for the first time, and I saw her. The gut wrenching, adrenalised, fainty terror was immense. I must have looked most peculiar, moving stealthily around display stands, whilst keeping an eye on where she was, and avoiding her seeing me.

I am coming to terms in the last few days with the extent to which, she actively worked towards my destruction.

She hates me so ferociously, and all I was, was a baby. The grief pouring out of me is overwhelming. I am finding what I have really gone through, my life, my reality, to be overwhelmingly horrific. Brenda wanted me to feel these feelings, and they have been a LONG time coming. I can't belive what a wicked, evil, insane monster that woman is.

I guess my subconscious knows I am ready for this now, and I will be ok.

But so far, still hiding. Not big enough to calmly turn and walk away. Maybe when I've worked through the anger?

That's why I couldn't and won't attend any event where she is likely to be.

Carpet combing sounds right up my street!!!!

RubberDuck · 18/03/2011 09:50

See, I'm struggling with the hate thing.

After everything I've read, part of me thinks that my mother is completely utterly oblivious to what she does. She's honestly bewildered that I reacted as I did. I don't think "oh you're so oversensitive" is her way of controlling me, I think she honestly believes that.

I oscillate between SURELY if you were in any way trying to be a good mother then yes, you'd be upset at being told your failings, but then would do your utmost to see if you could correct them and repair your relationship. That you'd actively try and avoid hurting your child. And how bloody DARE she treat me like this.

Another part just views her as a child that got stuck. Mostly bewildered by the world who can't understand why everyone is so mean to her.

But then if I start viewing her like that and feeling sorry for her then I'm playing up to the whole "I'm a victim" mentality. I dunno, I'm tying myself up in emotional and mental knots at the moment.

RubberDuck · 18/03/2011 09:52

(and actually, I ended up really cross with the book "When You And Your Mother Can't Be Friends" because it seemed to spend so long making excuses for their behaviour - and here I am doing it myself. Gah)

Snowdropfairy · 18/03/2011 10:02

I dont hate my mum and dad. I'm not even angry at them.

I was when i was a teenager - the lack of support, understanding and guidance is heartbreaking to me now.

I dont think i can change them any more but only recently give up that idea. To relise that to stop trying is not failing and not bad for me.

My son is 2 and we live 90 miles away. They dont call me or come visit so he just don't know them. He is not missing out on anything good and me and my husband know this.

When he is older he can go see them if he wants but i will discuess it when the time comes. I hope i will raise him to stand up for himself and have his own selfessteem and not let them take it from him.

All my sisters and my brother have no confidence or self esteem.

I have no idea where i got the little bit of self esteem i have but i'm glad i have it and its something to build on Grin

TeachMySelfBalance · 18/03/2011 13:20

Good for you Snowdrop. The magpie could be squawking at you for agreeing to subject yourself to more disrespect. This may be the seed for the 'no contact' choice: these people will never respect their targets.

Imho, RubberDuck, Snowdrops place is where you want to be headed. With thousands of forks in the road though, sometimes it is difficult to get there. But it sounds like you are getting close.

Basically, I felt it as a sort of glass ceiling. To break through a very sincere 'enough is enough' level has to be reached. Enough of being used, enough of the excuses, accusations, enough pity/hate/FOG, enough anxiety over it all. Just enough.

This is different from just being 'numb'; it is as you posted, RD, just don't play the game. That is a proactive choice for your own mental health.

One strategy for detachment discussed here long ago was to see yourself as a monitor of the interaction. View yourself as having a clip board and pen and every EA thing that sneaks in gets noted down. As though you are not participating in the interaction, just observing.

I have had the analogy in my mind the past few weeks that my sister treated me as if I was a card board cut out-that is how dismissive she treats me. Might as well just put a card board cut out of myself in the chair and leave. Could that be translated into a sort of shield? See them as a card board cut out who can not hurt you?

Gardening and quilting and exercising today-a me day. Well, trying to anyway.

Snowdropfairy · 18/03/2011 16:26

the lack of support, understanding and guidance is heartbreaking to me now

Just re-reed this and it stands out so much.

My ex - family just let me down.

They never took me to the doctor or dentice
I was not allowed to choice my clothes
I was put down because of my wieght but my mum still over feed me and shouted at me if i did not eat it.
My needs were not meet. I was depressed and they did nothing.
I was sent to a bad school because they could not be bothered to look in to others and when i did i was just dismissed.
They only care about themself. My mum told me i was an accident that i was not wanted. She has never kissed me, huged me or said she loved me. When i call her she puts me down and is negative about me, my life and my new family.

I started to tell that she would say things just to hurt me and make me feel bad every time i talked to her on the phone.

They play other family members off agenst each other. Sister 1 is skinner than sister 2. Sister 2 son is always naught and no one likes him but sister 1 child is an angle and is given gifts and taken out to places. Brother earns more money so he is better than you. Sil is the daughter she should have had as her's are not good enough. I pay too much attention to what sister 1 has said. They all bitch and gossip behined each other back.

My plan just dont play the game - if they dont know about my life then they cant comment on it and that works if i have no commtact. Its the first time ever that i have been able to do this - no contact.

I have no idea how they will react but i'm worried that they have called me and i cant stop thinking thast they will just show up.

I will have to let them in as they would have come 90 miles to see us and the pain, put downs and shouting and the guilt will start again like i'm powerless to stop these people from hurting me Sad

garlicbutter · 18/03/2011 17:10

Brilliant posts and links again.

The 'excusing' thing is hard to work through, isn't it? Having known ALL MY LIFE how hard things were for my mother - she made sure everyone knew! - I found it impossible difficult to feel angry enough at her. Then I worked out that this hard life was the result of her choices, which she kept on making. One of those choices was to blame me, her child, for much of what was wrong. Another was to keep us all playing happy families with a violent sociopath. These are not the choices of a woman who is capable of being a mother.

I had this out with her. She told me all her excuses, of course, and I pointed out that, while I was her child, she expected a little girl to deal with her adult problems. I asked if she could see how unfair that was. Se said yes, she said sorry, and she kept going on about how she was the best mother she could be under her circumstances. Well, I know she was the best mother she could be - I have to assume she did her best but that doesn't mean my childhood was any less violent, miserable or lonely for it. After this I found it easier to feel angry although it was still a long time coming.

Since then, I find I still make allowances for her weakness (her madness, actually) and empathise with the undoubtedly trying times she's lived through.The difference is that I no longer feel these as excuses or justifications for the shitty childhood she inflicted on me. She is an 80-year-old woman who, like many others, suffered through the war and the years afterwards. Like many young mothers in the 50s-60s, she would have faced much difficulty and disapproval had she left my dad but she was professionally qualified and could have hacked it. Like many abused wives, she loved her husband and could not imagine leaving him. I understand all this and I see her as I do any batty older woman who's lived that life - happy she's now in easier times, and sad for some of the things she went through.

I understand it, but this understanding does NOT change my misfortune; it doesn't in any way mitigate the influences that have blighted my adult life. In fact, it made them worse - as long as I considered her 'reasons' as valid excuses, I continued to apply her values and excuses to myself and my life.

Many people don't get this. I've had aunts, siblings and various friends trying to paint me as unfair or unsympathetic. I'm not. I tell them I understand it all, but I am still left with the consequences. I tell them I've forgiven her. I have, but probably not in the way they mean. I've forgiven her because there's no point in holding onto blame. I have detached.

My processes are nowhere near finished yet and things might change again. I thought it might be useful for somebody else to see where I'm coming from wrt my mother and forgiveness.

Mizzy, I did your beautiful boat visualisation and realised I needed to put more people in it than my lakeside rowing boat could hold! (Resisting the temptation to let them all sink) I put them on an ocean-going liner instead.

As I stood on a busy Mediterranean quayside, squinting up in the sunshine to wave them off, I couldn't help noticing how they were already beginning their posturings, bringing others into their webs and jostling for power Grin I was hoping to feel sad but, by the time the ship had untied, I was in fits of laughter!

Think I'll go and have a cold beer in one of those quayside cafes Wink

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