Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

A womens perspective

157 replies

MrSpoc · 09/12/2010 13:49

Hi All,

Just looking for some advice if possible.

got two DS one is 2.5 and the other is 8m.

Wife and I have not had proper intimacy for a while (i mean real intimacy) we do have sex once a week on a Sat night (not making love more a chore for her)

I thought I would be honest with her last night and said that I miss us having real kisses. this was taken completely the wrong way and ended up being that she is scared of showing me affection and that she has deliberately distanced herself from me because in her eyes, I always want to take it further.

I realise that she has changed but im really confused in what I should do. Do i leave her alone until she initiates any sort of holding hands, cuddles kisses etc.

At the moment I just feel that she does not want me.

Any advice would be appreciated. thanks,

OP posts:
SantasMadMissy · 10/12/2010 11:10

OP
i think its a case of still being hurt from the FB incident.
in her head it would be what if i hadn't found ythe messages, would he have gone further?
i am guessing that she felt maybe the ow was more attractive than herself as she seems to be making a huge effort to get her self esteem up. does she have a low self esteem?

larrygrylls · 10/12/2010 11:35

Newname,

Everyone's posts are their own opinions. And of course I cannot empathise with being pregnant or giving birth but that does not mean I cannot sympathise or understand. Otherwise all of you posting about how men should feel or act are invalid as you cannot possibly understand what it is like to be male.

And, it is true that most perspectives on the "relationships" boards are from the separated and the divorced. Just have a look at the profiles and/or comments. These are arguably not the greatest relationship advisors.

QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 11:43

Can you expand on that last statement?

Why is a person who is divorced not "qualified" to have valid opinions on relationship matters?

newnamethistime · 10/12/2010 11:46

Larry - you were insinuating that the majority of women IRL - based on those you have spoken to - would brush off an on-line flirtation (while DW is pregnant) as being insignificant and of no consequence.

I'm pretty familiar with the relationships board Larry - and I disagree with your last paragraph completely. Many of those posters you are referring to regularly post extremely good advice.

Perhaps you have a problem grasping this, much in the same way you have a problem understanding that flirting on-line (while your wife is pregnant) is going to damage a relationship?

larrygrylls · 10/12/2010 11:47

Sure,

If my marriage were in trouble, my first port of call would be my happily married friends, not those who had split up. If you had financial problems, would you consult a bankrupt?

Anyone can have an opinion on any matter, but those who have done something successfully are surely the ones to listen to.

newnamethistime · 10/12/2010 11:50

How do you know they are successful Larry?

Everyone would have thought my marriage was fab from the outside at least?

In fact for a long time I believed that myself...

larrygrylls · 10/12/2010 11:51

Newname,

Typical asinine black and white comment of those who actually WANT to split a couple up. I never said that flirting on line (and, as I have said, in this case it hardly even sounds like flirting) is not going to damage a relationship. Of course it is. But there are varying degrees of damage. Do you want to write your car off if you get a small dent? You are annoyed but you get it repaired and then forget aboutit.

QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 11:53

The only black and white comments I see here, are yours Larry.

TurkeyBASTer · 10/12/2010 11:55

Emotions aren't logical.

Logic can't repair emotional damage.

Hurt people aren't cars.

newnamethistime · 10/12/2010 11:57

It's obviously damaged Larry - otherwise the OP wouldn't have posted....

He just didn't make (or wasn't willing to make) the connection between his flirtation and the problems he is having now. As he hasn't come back we don't really know.

FWIW - I think the OP genuinely sounds like a nice caring bloke (perhaps also naive) and appeared to be very willing to try to be supportive and sort things out.

larrygrylls · 10/12/2010 12:02

Seriously,

I just don't understand people's agendae on here. There seems to be this idea that only men have affairs/flirtation etc. It HAS to be close to 50/50 unless the unfaithful women are unfaithful 2-3x as often as the unfaithful men.

Does no-one accept that there is a gradation of misbehaviour (for want of a better word) and, at the lower end, it would be healthy and normal to deal with it and get over it? Is it really all or nothing. Do you have years of introspection and damage because your partner is a little too tactile with someone at a party?

I just see the OP as a really decent guy who is doing his level best to rebuild a good relationship with his wife after a few tough years. He is looking for FRIENDLY advice, not merely condemnation for him and beatification for his wife.

TurkeyBASTer · 10/12/2010 12:07

"Does no-one accept that there is a gradation of misbehaviour..."

Possibly but it's almost irrelevant.

It's the breaking of trust that generally causes harm, more so than the actual indiscretion.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 10/12/2010 12:08

no-one wants the OP and his wife to break up - quite the opposite or why are we all bothering posting here to give him the perspective he asked for?

Larry, do you ever wonder why you get into so many scraps on MN? Have you perhaps considered that it's your habit of not just trying to advise the OP, but also feeling the need to slag off everyone else's posts. Of course, we don't all agree with each other, but you're on some mission to show that most posters are slightly deranged/stupid. Not nice.

QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 12:12

If you really acknowledged the OP and his problems Larry, you would not derail his thread.....

I dont understand how you can conclude that women are cheating more than men, and I dont now what relevance this even have.

If a woman realizes that her husband is having an online flirtation, it does not take long for her to work out what the outcome might be or what his intentions are. The flirtation itself is not the problem, but his underlying intentions are. The flirt is not the problem, but WHY it happened. And that is what is hard for very many women to get past. How easy it is for their partner to start looking for somebody new.

I honestly think anybody, man or woman, who had the impression that their partner were seeking out new possibilities in this manner would be rattled. Hurt. Doubting their relationship. etc.

QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 12:17

Thanks for saying that Elephant. I usually stay off any thread where I see Larry is posting, because his attitude to other posters is so disrespectful and unpleasant. Not much I can do if he shows up where I am though.... Hmm

(aside from thanking my lucky stars I am not married to him. Wink )

matildarosepink · 10/12/2010 12:29

Larrygrylls... who on earth is this person? And what is a 'happily married man' doing surfing a chat forum on Mumsnet, ffs?

Amazing what false confidence a computer screen and a keyboard can give someone, isn't it? I'll know who to avoid in future.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out another perspective, but I just don't get why you're on here if you are who you say you are. And some of us who are on here are actually happy married, thank you, though we have our challenges in life - makes us human.

OP, good luck with it all, sounds like you'll probably both get there, however long it takes. I'm out...

pottonista · 10/12/2010 12:31

Surely I'm not the only one who finds the OP's description of having a kiss and cuddle met with 'I'm not in the mood, but if you want it hurry up' desperately sad? It's so clear that she's assuming that what he wants is physical thrills only and that he has no wish or need for intimacy. And that misses the whole point. Something's really unhappy and wrong here.

Obviously I don't know enough about your and MrsSpock's relationship to have any inkling of what your online affair, the impact of 2 DCs has had on your closeness, what you were like before and so on. There are plenty of other posters here who have given a range of bracing views on that stuff. But to me that little description you gave, of her saying 'I don't want to, but hurry up if you do' reminds me of the person I used to be, before I met DP.

I had a number of loveless and damaging sexual relationships when I was younger, that left me almost incapable of trusting enough in the connection between sex and love to be able to enjoy sex in that way. Instead, it felt like a chore to be performed mostly for the man's sake. It took ages and ages of holding and patience and love by DP before I could begin to understand that for him it was about love, not just possession. I still freeze up sometimes. He's learned to be patient with me. I can't tell you how much it has meant to me, that someone did take the time to be patient.

I don't know what's going on in your relationship, OP. But if your wife is the kind of woman who can't enjoy sex unless it's about love and closeness, then if she's only offering you (as it were) the use of her hole 's lost a basic, physical trust in the connection between sex and love within your relationship. And she's very, very angry with you. I don't think it's insurmountable, but if you want to recover from this, you're going to have to be very patient and sensitive, without expecting anything back. And you're probably going to have to give, give, give in that way for a loooong time before - if ever - anything comes back.

Imagine you're putting your arms around her, and around the DCs, and just keeping them safe, without asking for anything in return. Let her know you'll keep doing this, for as long as it takes. Stop being clingy. Be a man. Good luck.

blinder · 10/12/2010 18:33

Great post pottonista

dignified · 11/12/2010 16:44

she has told me she loves me but she needs her space and chance to get back to normal. I just dont understand why she does not want the kisses and cuddles. (She is fine with giving pecks if that makes sense).

It doesnt matter what you can or cannot understand , she has told you how she feels and that at the minuite she doesnt want kisses and cuddles from you.

She has children who demand a certain level of physical attention, she does not want to have to cuddle or kiss anyone else as well and your attempts to inflict this on her are going to cause you serious problems.

Wanting kisses and cuddles constantly from your wife is demanding and whiny. " Give me some affection ". Your whinging about wanting a real kiss instead of a peck when you go to work puts you in the same bracket as one of the kids.

How can you possibly enjoy fake affection ?

InLoveWithDavidTennant · 11/12/2010 21:09

Its quite interesting how MrSpoc hasnt been back to reply!

AnotherMumOnHere · 11/12/2010 23:44

You wonder why he hasnt been back on? Have you looked at the postings and lambastings that have been going on.

Personally I would have run a mile too.

The two or three postings on FB were practically made out to be a full blown affair. FFS. Get a grip women (and men).

The FB postings were approx a year ago. FFS not yesterday. Get over them. Everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill here as for pot, kettle and black .......... well im saying nowt else.

I believe what has been said earlier re going to friends whose marriages have lasted is far better than going to someone who has split up for help is a true thing. Its easy to go and talk to someone just so that you will hear what you want to hear ........ that is no use to man or beast.

PurpleOne · 12/12/2010 03:22

now i know why im divorced with OP post like that.
he wouldnt leave me alone for sex, [a kiss always became a grope] nor listen...and fell into bed with his taxi 'customer'that hed been talking to for 2 weeks at the bottom of thegarden cos his mobile signal was bad... 3 days after me and dds left the marital home.

she feels used OP,and a pleasuring machine.

Thank god FB wasn't about back then.

ChippingIn · 12/12/2010 04:04

Matilda - why is it OK for you as a happily married woman to be posting, but not for Larry who is a happily married man?

I think that people are getting carried away with saying he's had an affair. He had a couple of conversations, on facebook - which his wife has access to, where he and a woman gave each other some compliments Confused

MrSpoc - I agree that the best thing to do is to tell your wife that you love her and want to be with her, that you miss hugging and kissing her and that as much as you would really like to be intimate in the way that you were before you had the children, you are more than happy to wait until this is something she wants again as well. Reassure her that you will not go looking for this elsewhere - that it's her you love and want.

strawberry17 · 12/12/2010 09:57

Finally I'm so relieved, I've been following this thread and thinking I was going mad and the only female on Mumsnet to think the FB thing has been way blown out of all proportion (after all wife has access to FB so nothing went on behind her back).
I too am not surprised the OP hasn't been back, he probably things like shite now.

strawberry17 · 12/12/2010 09:57

"feels" like shite not thinks.