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Original poster

A womens perspective

157 replies

MrSpoc · 09/12/2010 13:49

Hi All,

Just looking for some advice if possible.

got two DS one is 2.5 and the other is 8m.

Wife and I have not had proper intimacy for a while (i mean real intimacy) we do have sex once a week on a Sat night (not making love more a chore for her)

I thought I would be honest with her last night and said that I miss us having real kisses. this was taken completely the wrong way and ended up being that she is scared of showing me affection and that she has deliberately distanced herself from me because in her eyes, I always want to take it further.

I realise that she has changed but im really confused in what I should do. Do i leave her alone until she initiates any sort of holding hands, cuddles kisses etc.

At the moment I just feel that she does not want me.

Any advice would be appreciated. thanks,

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 09/12/2010 18:49

I would venture a guess.

You lost your wife in anything but the paper your marriage certificate is printed on, the moment you decided to have an online affair with another woman while your wife was pregnant with your child.

You betrayed her when she was at her most vulnerable.

Of course she does not want to be intimate with you. You gave that part of your relationship to some online floozy.

larrygrylls · 09/12/2010 18:58

MrSpoc,

Sorry to not offer a woman's perspective but you are being ludicrously condemned by many posters for an online "affair". From what I have read, you and another woman paid one another a few compliments for a week. In no definition that any reasonably person would use does that constitute an affair. Sure it might have upset your wife and is possibly not ideal behaviour. But an apology and cessation of the behaviour is surely sufficient. (As an aside, I cannot see any upside to Facebook and why anyone over the age of 18 uses it is anyone's guess).

It sounds to me like you and your wife do not have any huge fundamental problem. Forget the sex and even the intimacy and just learn to be a family for a while. The rest will come back over time. Having two under the age of three is a strain (I have an 18 month old and a 3 week old so I fully sympathise). Don't assume there are any huge problems unless there is a reason to.

QuintessentialShadows · 09/12/2010 19:06

larry Hmm

Really?
That is a very shallow view.

InLoveWithDavidTennant · 09/12/2010 19:08

TBH I think you need to get sex and anything associated with it out of your head.

You lost her trust 12 months ago, when you should have been there suporting her (for the 2nd time) through the most important, stressful, and life-changing experience a woman could go through. Yes you made a mistake, but it is far from over.

It wouldnt suprise me if she was trying to get back into shape because she was scared of you looking elsewhere... Same with the having sex once a week "to keep you happy", cause she is only doing it to keep you happy.

You are not thinking of her needs at all, and just because you chose to forget about the flirting, it doesnt mean she did! You betrayed her and it will take a long time for her to even begin to think of trusting you again.

Also wrt sex: If she doesnt want sex, then she doesnt want sex. This could last for a month or 2 years. Just because she's your wife, doesnt mean she has to have sex with you whenever you want it. She has children to look after, she's tired, and her hormones and libido are all over the place... And this happens even when husbands havent strayed!

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/12/2010 19:10

I agree it sounds to me like there was this dodgy behaviour on your part ( incredibly threatening to a very vulnerable pregnant woman I'd have though), and part of the deal you agreed afterwards included her agreeing to sex once a week. So basically, in order to "make your relationship work" (i.e. prevent you having a full-blown affair) she felt she had to be a better wife by making her body available for sex on Saturdays. I'm sure that's not how it was intended to work out from your POV, you don't sound like a massive tosser, but that might well be how she felt. More probably you wanted it to be a nice night that you both enjoyed and got something out of (what else does date night consist of btw, babysitter? nice meal? or is it just sex?).

Agree that nothing puts people off sex more than feeling obliged to do it. Also you might need to look at the kind of sex you've been having. If it's mostly for your "relief" you probably need to get it over with with a wank at some other point, and then just enjoy the cuddly lovely side of being in bed, and concentrate on making her feel gorgeous. At the moment she might just feel like a comfort dispenser to all and sundry, and that her body is for the use of others.

larrygrylls · 09/12/2010 19:12

Quintessential,

Why shallow? You mean I take the view of at least giving things a chance to work themselves out and I don't take the consensus MN view that chatting to someone of the opposite sex without getting prior permission from one's spouse constitutes an affair.

I know couple's who did not have any intimacy/sex for over a year after the birth of their child and yet they are fine now.

Woman gives birth, woman is off sex/intimacy for a while due to a combination of exhaustion and possible physical damage/trauma from birth. That is hardly a reason to stop the press or decide a relationship is in trouble.

DuelingFanio · 09/12/2010 19:18

Larry - the OP says "if my wife did it i would also be deverstated [sic]" so I think he is quite aware of the distress this sort of on-line flirting can cause. You may think it is nothing but clearly it is a big deal to the OP and I would think to his wife.

GraceAwayInAManger · 09/12/2010 19:20

The relationship is in trouble because OP has posted a thread about the problem, Larry.

I think what most respondents, myself included, are trying to get across is the (disproportionate) amount of distress the Facebook episode may have caused, given his wife's circumstances at the time and her subsequent responses. Whether an error "should" cause a certain amount of distress is neither here nor there. A relationship is about the feelings ofthe people in it.

Almost everybody has agreed with your no-pressure prescription. The only difference is your dismissal of the Facebook thing.

larrygrylls · 09/12/2010 19:25

Dueling,

The OP describes the "flirting" as paying one another compliments over the grand period of a week. And, on a site he was well aware that his wife logged into and used; hardly super secretive. There is some serious insecurity going on here. He is sympathetic enough to do a big mea culpa as obviously it did upset her. However, it really should not be a factor a year later and really cannot be referred to as an affair without devaluing the currency of the word.

DuelingFanio · 09/12/2010 19:28

so he is downplaying the inappropriateness of his behaviour even though his wife was upset and had his wife done the same to him he would have been devastated. Nice.

larrygrylls · 09/12/2010 19:30

Dueling,

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt as to being truthful in his descriptions. Otherwise this whole internet thing is a bit pointless, is it not?

GraceAwayInAManger · 09/12/2010 19:34

Larry, the OP said he would have been devastated if the situation were reversed. It doesn't matter how you or I evaluate it. What matters is what it meant TO THEM.

QuintessentialShadows · 09/12/2010 19:45

Larry, it is neither here nor there that you make yourself the judge of how the ops wife should feel about the online flirt. Most women take such things very seriously, It makes them doubt themselves. Saying it has, or should have no relevance is attributing a really shallow view on women.

larrygrylls · 09/12/2010 19:46

Grace,

Yes he did but he shouldn't be. There is such a thing as being oversensitive and it isn't healthy. An affair is an affair and a few compliments are a few compliments. They do need to have a discussion but it does not have to be along the lines of "I have been so awful, how can I ever be forgiven". He might earn a little more respect by being somewhat more robust and saying I have done my time and now it is forgiveness or divorce as I am not doing a perpertual guilt thing over something which was effectively nothing. And this is nothing to do with sex. It is about putting a relationship on reasonable terms going forward.

There seems to be a consensus on here that it is fine to grind someone into the dust over a minor indiscretion. It isn't. If you can't get over it, get divorced. Absolutely fine. However, if you do not want a divorce, you have to put it behind you after a decent interval and that is ultimately YOUR responsibility.

matildarosepink · 09/12/2010 20:02

Wow, the male perspective... it's all so black and white, isn't it? Females aren't really made like that, Larry, it takes time for them to get over things. It's not like having a problem at work. Sometimes females need room to be angry for a while, say the same things over and over, have some time to be angry/sad/hurt. It's not a mathematical equation. We are different to males. I do see you point about perspective, but you try having perspective when your hormones are everywhere and you feel vulnerable.

She may need to trust the OP before she is fully able to be honest. She might be scared, even of how she feels, or what might come out if she starts talking. And if she says how she REALLY feels, then what? Will he leave? Start another online thing? It may be too soon for her to feel confident and emotionally safe enough to be completely open.

There may be all kinds of reasons she offers maintenance sex and is desperately exercising when she could be sleeping or having a coffee. Sounds like a tough place to be to me...

blinder · 09/12/2010 20:07

Larry - one minute there is nothing wrong with the relationship and the next the OP should be threatening divorce?!

Make your mind up.

OP I identify with aspects of your wife's story. I get it that you want to restore the romantic closeness that you miss. Your wife needs
1 masses of reassurance that you are totally committed to her
2 a ban on sex for the wrong reasons
3 a break from your clingy pressure (your words)

To be honest I think the insecure one in the relationship may be you. Which led you to responding to some ego massage online.

Stop trying to FIX your wife and your relationship. Relax and commit to her as she is. Your anxiety about the relationship is likely having a very negative effect.

GraceAwayInAManger · 09/12/2010 20:09

What Matilda said. It's not about the relative badness of what OP did, it's about the emotional aftermath. Feelings don't follow a logical scale, especially the feelings of a tired & pregnant woman. Just saying she "shouldn't" be that upset doesn't mean she won't be!

I generally avoid male/female statements but, as a relevant aside, I've never met a woman who doesn't feel the deceit is harder to forgive than the act ... or a man who would say the same.

boohoo80 · 09/12/2010 20:34

Quite right. Think the ladies on here are intelligent to know I'm not speaking on their behalf and know I mean most of us. Or am generally speaking again.

dittany · 09/12/2010 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

newnamethistime · 09/12/2010 22:44

Larry - your a man yes?
Well actually it's shockingly obvious that you are.

You have no idea how vunerable a woman is while pregnant and then to have the trauma of giving birth (even if it in itself is a wonderful experience) - Women feel fragile during these times and being supported emotionally is important.

The OP failed completely here - Take it from a woman - he failed.

He now is left with a situation where his wife has no libido - this will not come back until she feels emotionally supported.

She very obviously does not feel supported.
She is agreeing to having sex once a week with the OP to ensure he doesn't stray - even if she claims it isn't so - those thoughts are there somewhere.
The only activity she has is one to loose weight (swimming) - to keep her husband...

This is not going to go away.

newnamethistime · 09/12/2010 22:45

not just going to go away

larrygrylls · 10/12/2010 07:08

I don't think these generalisations about how women feel are actually true, especially about things like minor flirtations. These boards are fequently dominated by divorcees where the minor act has turned into major infidelities. When I run these kind of scenarios past my real life female friends who are appily married, I get a far more robust view, generally closer to what I post than the majority view on MN.

larrygrylls · 10/12/2010 07:11

Newname,

With an 18 month old and a 3 week old, I think I have some recent insight into how females feel when they are pregnant! I do actually talk to my wife, unlike some couples here who prefer to discourse on MN than with their own partners.

The point is the woman in question is now 8 months past being pregnant. I am not questioning how she reacted at the time but how long she is taking to get over it. And believe me, I do know about the fatigue with 2 small children but that is both of their problems, not exclusively the OP's.

QuintessentialShadows · 10/12/2010 08:45

larry, I think you are projecting too much of yourself and your marriage in your posts, and use yourself and your wife as a benchmark not only as to how the OPs wife should feel, but to how women in general should feel. I think you are arguing for the sake of the argument, not trying to help the op.

You say some odd stuff, considering you are a bit of a forum frequenter yourself. Pot kettle.

newnamethistime · 10/12/2010 10:37

Larry - those are your opinions, not everybody has the same views.

And no - just because your wife has had children, does not mean you actually understand what it feels like to be pregnant/give birth. Sorry.