When a man tells you what he is like,,,listen! Or, red flag time

[Janos]

You know, the men who just drop into a conversation that they aren't nice people, or think it's funny to drop kick bunny rabbits, or that they did this awful, really bad thing one time but will never do it again, honest guv'nor?

They are telling you something. Listen. And don't ignore your instincts.

It's been said before, I just feel that this is worth repeating.

I do have one male friend who does that (sadly rather regularly).

You may well be right, though.

Like I said, my view is made up only of my own experiences and observations.

Most of my male friends have a hefty dollop of sod-you independence, and their paternal sides have seemed to take them by surprise when they have finally had children.

Oh God, yes. Listen.

Don't forget that some of us are lovely.

[hsmile]

Yes Tiggy - all the more reason to make sure we don't waste any time on the idiots!

Women need to be very objective when meeting men. I don't have any experience of dating on line (married for a long time) but I would imagine you need to be looking at the evidence of them being a nice person/shit.

I remember being shocked that one potential boyfriend a very long time ago was moaning about his ex and how they had broken up because she had had counselling and he was annoyed because her mother had died just before the end of the counselling. He was worried how she would deal with it and really didn't want to. I ran for the hills. FIVETEEN years later and he still isn't in a decent relationship.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Though I do have my own issues.

I'll never forget a man I used to work with, at 35 complaining that he wanted to settle down but was finding it hard.
"I mean, I bought my house and I renovated it. How do you just let someone come and live with you and have the benefit of all that hard work for nothing?"

So true about the relationship with their mother.

That's really important. It guides their entire attitude towards women.

Man who has no respect for his mum will have none for you or be very angry with women in general.

Man who thinks his mum is brilliant is likely either to still be in love with her (bad) or have a healthy respect for women.

Man who does everything his mother asks and talks about her with an element of fear is likely to want to 'overcome' your perceived 'control' of him, as you are her in disguise, and will try to control you in turn.
Will also always put her before you.

Be warned!

"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them."
? Maya Angelou

She's right, and you OP!!

When a man says he finds it hard to commit or that he's never been faithful as it's boring to be with just one person, for example.

Wish I'd known and understood most of this 7 years ago when I met my exp.

I ignored so many of my instincts;

The fact that he hated people (!) and that animals were better than people. (OH do beware those animal lovers; they aren't all good)
His mum was acomplete nutjob and gave him an ounce of hash for his 16th birthday. At the time i thought it was cool.
His mum told me that my dad was an arse and that I shouldn't go to uni (she enabled so much of his behaviour.)
He was ALWAYS right.
He refused to kiss me if I had eaten meat and manipulated me until I had and eating disorder.
He was also obsessed with crop circles, woo and conspiracy theories as was his mum.

Oh how I wish I'd ran but I stuck with him because I was scared of hurting his feelings

The first time I dumped him after two weeks he cried and we decided to be friends so he used that as an excuse to be with me or rather stalk me for the next two years.

I felt sorry for him as his parents were divorced and his dad abused his mum. Hang on a minute! .....

I was 16 and very naiive.

Women ignore those red flags as they alternate them with being lovely. A technique called hoovering.
Scary isn't it.

I am going to teach dd to get a twat radar!

absolutely women can be twats and men need twat radar too. I have known a couple of narcisistic twats who were only ever happy if they were playing one bloke off against another or trying to prove their worth by "winning" a bloke off another woman.

This was not a partner (or even BF, as will become clear) but the first time I met the new priest at the school I was working at, he told me about a video he had been handed by a female parishioner showing her DH and her DS having sex with each other. She had come across it and was seeking guidance from her priest. I commiserated as to how shocking that must have been and how tricky to have parishioners like that (meaning the man in the video) and he said, "yes, she should have seen that they were enjoying it and she was totally unreasonable not to acknowledge that"!!! He and I were both a bit drunk, as it was his welcome party, and I assumed I had misheard. 2 years later he was arrested for trading paedophilic porn. I should have listened and ACTED.

People can be very open with strangers (ie on first meetings) One should def watch out for those Red Flags and not dismiss disclosures as mis-statements.

notsocrates, it was easier in the past to turn a blind eye. What WAS normal behaviour?Also, it's really easy to think - did I hear that right? Surely not, I can't have!

In a way although I hate the whole CRB-frenzied paranoia (sp?) that's going on at the moment I can see where it's coming from.

what booboo said.

And also, wwifn, I totally agree with you but how do we raise 'em with that "people radar"?

Apart from us lot, the adults - who are still learning from life and from threads like this (thanks Janos) - how do we educate the next generation?

As somebody said, this stuff should be taught in schools.

I have teenage dd's. I think, hope, that they have some kind of radar...but I worry...

notsocrates I've also been in that situation, where some loon I met mentioned something about the Jewish World Conspiracy and I just assumed he was joking. It seriously didn't occur to me that he wasn't. But then every time I met him after that (he knew some people I knew at the time) he would mention "The Conspiracy" and after a few months, I realised that actually, he wasn't joking at all, he really meant it.

The thing is, when you are sane, you kind of expect other people to be sane so you bend over backwards to make allowances for them and try to rationalise what they have said. You assume you misheard, or that they are joking, because the idea that they actually meant it, simply isn't possible in your head.

would add when you are nice overall you kind of expect others to be nice and bend over backwards trying to rationalise, empathise, justify.

blah.

i realised that a guy i think likes me and i was wondering if i could respond is allowing a young girl (with a boyfriend) to puppy dog around him and not putting her out of her misery and seeming to get an ego boost from it. and wondering is over. you can tell he doesn't want her but he is not making it clear to her.

Oh yes. If a man describes every single woman he knows as mad, including his mother, he is unlikely to have a positive opinion of women, and will ultimately describe you in the same terms and lead you to believe you are mad too.
If a man says sex, including that within a committed relationship, does not and never will have anything to do with love, then you should not be surprised when there is no love evident in your sexlife.
When a man says he is lazy, has been kicked out of flats failing to do his share of housework etc, don't be surprised when he does nothing around the house.
When a man says he doesn't like the noise small children make, don't be surprised that he is effectively missing in action for the first 18 months of your crying child's life.
I wish I knew this at 23. I hope through divorcing this man I can teach my daughter at least some of this, and also learn to forgive myself in the process.

Similarly any man you are dating who asks 'when is that child going to bed so we can have some peace?' is not a great bet!

It's not that he 'just isn't used to children'. Loads of men aren't used to children but welcome the opportunity to parent them kindly and actively.

This one will always see your child as a threat - you don't need him.

How about "I know me and I know my failings. I'd see you a few times and then move on." Very, very honest actually, but how many women would think, "Oh, he has realised he has a failing and wants to change? Perhaps I can make a difference here."

You can't. He's saving your feelings and telling you outright not to get involved. It goes along with the 'You deserve better' line. He knows more himself than you do, recognised you are better than him and doesnt want you to be dragged down and get hurt.

Do we listen??

WHyamI: Oh yes, absolutely. Some people not only don't listen to that one, but then proceed to make the other person's live hell and vilify them to everyone else around - 's/he is so cruel and wicked, s/he told me that a committed relationship wasn't going to happen but I looooooved him/her and now s/he has done exactly what s/he said s/he was going to do and it's Not Fair'.

But most men who tell you they don't want anythign serious are lying.

What thye mean is, they don't want to be serious about you, but they do want you to be serious about them.

They get all insulted and aggreived and hurt when you take them at their word and just treat them as a bit of fun, which is what they proposed in the first place.

HB: OK, I have encountered that once or twice, but it's their problem not mine, I dump and move on when that happens.