When a man tells you what he is like,,,listen! Or, red flag time

[Janos]

You know, the men who just drop into a conversation that they aren't nice people, or think it's funny to drop kick bunny rabbits, or that they did this awful, really bad thing one time but will never do it again, honest guv'nor?

They are telling you something. Listen. And don't ignore your instincts.

It's been said before, I just feel that this is worth repeating.

Oh yes, here are awful women as well and they, too, often give clear indications of their awfulness early on. A friend of a friend had a disastrous relationship history, everywhere she went men would 'fall in love' with her and stalk her (she wasn't mindblowingly beautiful) and then let her down. Etc. SHe turned out to be a complete drama queen and a thoroughgoing liar.

Definitely a red flag - my ex husband told me early on how he would verbally abuse ex girlfriends while he was asleep and it wasn't his fault but they got upset!!! well he moved on to punching me in the middle of the night but of course that wasn't his fault either.

This is an excellent thread. I was always taught (by example as well as being told) that I should be more ladylike, less confrontational etc. And yes, diplomacy skills are useful in relationships and work-life, the ability to say "No" and be listened to is way more important. I'm expecting DC1 (DD) and really want to make sure she understands from an early age that NO-ONE has the right to touch her, invade her personal space etc etc and that she is in control of her own body.
I didn't have any serious issues when growing up, but would let someone snog me rather than make an issue out of trying to get them to leave me alone. And then married someone I couldn't think of a good enough reason to say no to. Reason enough was that I wasn't sure - as I realised with hindsight!

This is making me think a lot about a particular ex.

What I should have realised: his ?troubled? upbringing did not excuse his lack of commitment, infidelity, moodiness and drinking too much. I can?t believe the amount of rubbish I tolerated because I felt sorry that his sister had died, his parents were divorced and didn?t seem to care much for him. I even gave this loser multiple chances over a number of years because I was stupid enough to think the love of a good (well goodish) woman would make him turn into a decent human being. One day I finally realised - he was full of himself, would never change and was a complete fuckwit. From MN I now realise he was very narcissistic and verging on EA.

Last I heard of him about two years ago (well into his 30s), he was still stuck in the same rut ? blaming all the bad stuff in his life on his upbringing and not taking any responsibility.

I could write a whole essay on how much of prick he was, but realise I am in danger of hijacking the thread!

So, to recap in a less ranty way: if someone is self-obsessed, blames on all their bad behaviour on their upbringing and refuses to take any responsibility for their life - run a mile.

Willow, it's good to hear that you recognised the problem early on.

I presume you didn't have children with him, or marry him, or give up a career for him...so many women do this.

The red flags are sometimes soooo difficult to recognise....not really red flags at all but just a tiny voice bleating weakly in your ear (your intuition). So easy to ignore, when he seems to be a functioning human being and hey, no-one's perfect are they?

"On a positive note, men who like animals tend to be lovely, calm, trustworthy guys. Not just their own pets though, all animals be they squirrels in the park or exotic animals on TV."

Not IME - last BF - the one that found me on her and harassed me briefly - loved his cat, loved animals in general - he was a tosser.

yes, the intuition thing, is more important than anything else. If you listen to that inner voice you will hear what he says when he hints that he is a bad 'un and it won't get to the point where you are wondering whether it is an over- reaction to finish with him after he has just punched a hole in the wall through temper.

The inner voice is never wrong!! I bet there has not a woman alive who has ignored her inner voice and made allowances for c*ntish behaviour in a relationship with a bloke who actually came good in the end.

I briefly had a bloke who felt that 9 to 5 work was beneath him (and although highly intelligent and fully fit, a life on benefits was not) and who looked down on almost everyone. He once got impatient queuing in a SPAR shop (too low rent for him)and threw his purchases on the floor and stormed out of the shop in a huff. The manager followed him out to remonstrate, rightly pointing out that this was very disrepectful behaviour which only served to get him a mouthful of arrogant abuse.

Then guy then came to my house and while he was telling me this I was sat there, utterly mortified, thinking how can I dump him for this??

Not so much an inner voice as an inner screaming alarm but I didn't have quite enough of the right attitude to tell him to eff right off there and then - instead I just looked shocked and said that he was an embarrassment. It wasn't long before I did get rid though.

not before he had shouted to his 12 year old daughter that she looked like a slut and to "get that muck off your face" after she had been a bit too liberal with the blusher while experimenting with make up for the first time.

On the subject of animals, run a mile if a man says that he prefers animals to people.

It generally means that he's only capable of maintaining a relationship with someone as undiscriminating as a labrador.

Hitler was a big fan of animals, iirc. Had Alsatians and wouldn't eat meat.

Time to write out again the Women's Aid Bill Of Rights. Here they are:

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ME

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT MYSELF FIRST

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE SAFE

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO LOVE AND TO BE LOVED

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HUMAN - NOT PERFECT

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ANGRY AND PROTEST IF I AM TREATED UNFAIRLY OR ABUSIVELY BY ANYONE

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MY OWN PRIVACY

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE MY OWN OPINIONS, TO EXPRESS THEM, AND TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO EARN AND CONTROL MY OWN MONEY

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING THAT AFFECTS MY LIFE

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT ME

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO GROW AND CHANGE (AND THAT INCLUDES CHANGING MY MIND)

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO

I HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE MISTAKES

I HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER ADULTS? PROBLEMS

I HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO BE LIKED BY EVERYONE
I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL MY OWN LIFE AND TO CHANGE IT IF I AM NOT HAPPY WITH
IT AS IT IS.

Indeed, UF :) The myth that unpleasant people just have poor self-esteem - and that it can be fixed with love & tolerance - is really powerful. I think it applies to both sexes: knight on a white charger, anyone?

There's a world of difference between someone who says "I'm ashamed to say I used to [insert crapness] so I went on some courses / got therapy and now I do [decency] instead" - and someone who says "I used to do [crapness], haha" or "my ex drove me to it." It's about the mentality that says I do not need to change.

I have to say that, since I'm one of the ones who used to + got therapy, but plainly it's far better to choose a partner who's been decent all their life. Hard to do it while you're young & inexperienced, though, so it's much better to assume WARNINGS are important - and run!

Banging my Transactional Analysis drum again, I think everybody should read "Games People Play" at least once. It explains such a lot.

Look at how a man treats his mother.

Because that is how he will treat you.

there is though, the man who loves his mother too much isn't there

I hate mummy's boys, who put their relationship with her over that with their partner

gotta watch out for those idiots too

Look at his relationship with his mother then Scary....perhaps that's the telling thing.

My DH is a bit of a mummy's boy

I had to set him straight about a few things at the beginning of ur marriage

He gets it now [hsmile]

He treats her like the queen, and though he knows she is sometimes unreasonable, he was a bit rubbish at standing up to her

OK, ok, with the exception of Hitler, MaMoTTat's BF and any man who only gets on with his labrador, I do think that kindness to animals (as opposed to actively preferring them to humans) is a good indicator that a man is a good 'un!

But I could be wrong!

I went out with a young man once when I was 17. I watched him once berating his mother rather nastily for doing his ironing wrongly.
I remember thinking that as soon as I could (I was abroad) I would be off. And I was. And when I dumped him, SHE rang me to have a go at me. I couldn't speak enough of her language to tell her it was because of the way he'd spoken to her. (Well, partly.)

My DH keeps his mother at arms length because she is a raving narcissist control freak.

He's lovely to me, though.

However, he fits the 'did [crapness] got therapy' model, as described above.

Blimey willow did you go out with my exH?? All sounds scarily familiar.

He told me early on that he didn't know how to love. I should have listened.

Like stubbornhubby and SGB I'm always a bit uncomfortable when I see threads like this that are about predominantly about the red flags in men. I agree with every single one mentioned and I heartily agree with Grace's recommendation to understand transactional analysis, but with my DD and DS, I prefer to frame this as a "people radar" since they have friends of both sexes.

Consequently, we are trying to raise them with a healthy bullshit/manipulator detector and an antennae to avoid like the plague, the narcissistic female who gushes that she prefers men to women and finds that women are bitchy and jealous of her, as well as the male who treats front-line workers as scum, has "mother" issues and a porn habit....

WWIFN, I agree that it's not just men who are like this. You only have to glance at stately homes (for example) to see that.

But I would say there's an issue around women being conditioned to 'nice' behaviour so maybe they need encouragement to trust their instincts (described ad nauseum up thread so I won't repeat).

It applies to boths sexes of course.

I love that list UnsightlyFangazonian, thanks for posting it.

Some good recommendations for reading on here too. Glad I started the thread :)

I would like to slightly altwr my earlier post.

rather, you should look at what kind of relationship a man has with his mum.

A healthy, loving but ADULT relationaship is a great sign.

Treating her like shit, or the queen, or having a nutjob for a mum are all warning signs.

Though he can get over having a lunatic mother - as BooBoo says - but if he hasn't got over it it can seriously screw him up.

I had an ex who treated his mum like a fool and constantly shouted at her.

In turn he treated me with zero respect and refused to take anything I said even remotely seriously. While claiming he loved me despaerately, wanted to get married and have babies.

Thank God that never happened.

Also, wrt the gender issue, obviously there are arseholes on both sides of the fence.

However, (and this is based purely on personal experience and observation), I think that it's possible that women are more likely to be drawn to a vampiric/abusive personality due to their maternal instinct.

By that, I mean be more likely to fall for a sob story (abusive childhood/ bunny-boiling exes etc) and use this as an excuse for the subsequent appalling behaviour.

'I will be the mother he never had/girlfriend he deserves, restore his faith in women and help him to realise his potential'.

I suspect that women are more prone to this than men, in general.

ooh no, booboo. Men fall for the 'save me, I am a poor helpless damsel' stuff just as much