Can't forgive him for birth trauma

[Unwind]

And I know it wasn't really his fault.

My DH wiggled out of going to antenatal classes and appointments with me, and would not read the books I tried to make him read, but otherwise did his best to be supportive.

That best was not good enough - he let hospital staff ignore and undermine me during labour and after our daughter's birth, when she was in SCBU. It was an unbelievable nightmare to me, and I did not stand up for myself or for her - so why do I feel so bitter that he did not? We were both naive, we trusted the professionals, who were in positions of authority, we were first time parents and did not have confidence in ourselves in that role.

But I have not been able to feel the same way about my DH since then. How can I get over this? I have tried counselling, it did not fix things.

Have you any feelings as to why the counselling didn't work? Was it just on your own, or together?

(And sorry you're feeling this way.)

Thank you.

The counselling was on my own. The counsellor seemed to listen and agree with me mostly.

The first sentence in the OP post sums it up really. It isnt him. It is a combination of factors, you need more therapy.

How old is your DD?

I felt very traumatised after my DD's birth. I felt that with more homework and determination I could have done things "properly". I felt that all my life I had taken second best, and because of wanting to be "sensible" and "not making a fuss", I had put up with crap - when in actual fact, whether I deserved better or not, my daughter definitely did.

My DD was fine, and so was I once the fog had cleared, we had what is in the wider scheme of things a very good birth. You didn't as your DD was in SCBU, which must have been very frightening and guilty-making. I really sympathise with the awfulness of those feelings.

I honestly do not have any experience of what you have suffered, as it never happened that my feelings for my DP were connected with the difficulty of DD's birth (relatively easy as it was). However I distinctly remember the moment those bad feelings went away and I came back to feeling like myself again, day 3 after DD was born. And I wanted to share my experiences as to how emotionally difficult even a "normal" birth can be.

So you have tried counselling on your own. Did your counsellor have specific experience of post-birth counselling? Birth can be a very traumatic time and there are therapists, including hypnotherapists and counsellors, that can help you with what you have gone through and gain some "closure". I would look up post-birth therapists and try do find one. Don't underestimate what a difficult time this is/was, regardless of whether other people had a worse time. You know these feelings are not rational but that doesn't mean they are not real.

Very best of luck.

Sorry, wrote a long post, and lost it.

OK. I'm not a counsellor, and I don't know you, so I'm going to throw things.

One possibility is that having children, even with a straightforward birth, throws relationships into relief, and hidden stresses come to the fore; could it be that that's what this touches on?

Another possibility is that it has touched on your deepest wishes and desires in an intimate relationship, and your fears. Possibly the need to believe your partner can be utterly relied on if you ever find yourself utterly vulnerable or incapable of preserving yourself/those you love, indeed, relied on to "rescue" and "save" you?

I suppose I'm thinking about how you've written your post. You asked "why" you can't forgive him, as though you really feel the need to, but can't.

I guess, the logical answer would be to recognise that he was vulnerable, too, and was not gifted with a special power to make it safe, and to forgive him from that position.

As you know, attending ante-natal classes wouldn't have made the difference.

but it's also possible that the whole episode has made you question how your partner operates in the world, how he interacts with you, his overall level of care and concern, and so on.

for all I know, the reason you can't forgive him is because he was a bit rubbish - I don't know.

May I ask you something - what are the power-relationships like in your partnership? Do you cede him a lot of control, in return for a (hope-for) care and protection, and delivering the goods at the end of the day?

Sorry, in the "lost" post I also nosily asked why you ended the counselling.

Thank you AlarmBells, for your thoughtful post, and for sharing your experience. My DD is 20 months old. I would have thought that I should be over it by now, but I don't think I ever will be as trusting as I was before we were treated so badly by the hospital staff. What you said about putting up with crap - being sensible and not making a fuss really resonates with me. I have always been like that, and my daughter suffered horribly as a result. The birth itself was extremely traumatic, afterwards they refused to help me feed her, until she developed hypoglycaemia and was moved to SCBU. We were treated incredibly badly there by one member of staff, who seemed to delight in tormenting me - she would tell me how she coped better than me when she had twins, how all the other mothers were coping better than me, how I had to produce more colostrum for my DD's tube feeds. Everything I did with my daughter was undermined.

But yes, other peope do have a worse time and cope better. I don't know that my counsellor had specific experience in post birth counselling, I will try and find someone who has. It is hard to be objective, but I don't really think that I need any more counselling for myself. I just want to respect, trust and fancy my DH in the way I did before. I think that if I can't, our marriage won't survive in the long run.

Footlong - it is him. I can't see him in the same way as I did before. I am trying to find a way to get past this and move on.

Why do you feel this way??

IMO - you feel this way because, no matter how 'incorrect' it is seen to be these days (especially on forums like this), although we would probably deny it if asked, we still want 'our man' to look after & protect us (and our children) and you feel let down that he didn't. Perhaphs you also feel that if only he had read the books you provided him with he would have been more aware of what you expected of him. You now see him as 'less of a man' for not protecting you & your DD.

What now??

Have you told him how you feel?
What could he do that would make you feel 'safe' again?
Can you give any more details of what happened in your counselling sessions?

I think if I were you, I would tell him how I was feeling and tell him what kind of support you need now and give him things he could do that would help you (and without saying so, make him seem more of that man you need him to be) so 'allowing' him to deal with anyone you are finding 'difficult' right now & doing any 'manly' things you need doing (putting up shelves (yes I do put up my own, but that's not the point here!!).

[There are many on MN who will disagree with me and that's fine, but I hope this doesn't start anything off - it's just my opinion and I hope it helps you in some small way.]

Animula - I ended the counselling because I felt that I was no longer really benefiting from it.

I don't think there were hidden stresses in our relationship. There might have been, but if there were, they were hidden from me!

Yes, definitely to this touching on my "need to believe your partner can be utterly relied on if you ever find yourself utterly vulnerable or incapable of preserving yourself/those you love, indeed, relied on to "rescue" and "save" you."

I do cede him control, I have relied on him for a long time. He was a bit rubbish when our daughter was born. The man I held in such high regard did not stick up for us. I don't think I would be so bitter if he had. He was doing his best, but not taking "ownership" of the situation.

Your questions are giving me a lot of food for thought, I am very grateful for this.

Are you sure?

Shall i throw another one?

Could you be punishing yourself? You feel guilty, and so you are withdrawing affection from someone you are most intimate with, because that, in effect, denies you what you need, ie. nurturing and support.

Fwiw, I thought ChippingIn's suggestions about where to go from here were very thought-provoking.

And btw, 20 months is not a long time, in post-birth terms. Having children (the giving birth, the parenting, the changes in your life) is a profound experience. Even when everything goes swimmingly.

My dd is 7. I read a thread on mn a few months ago and realised that two years after the birth, I'd had some kind of post-traumatic flashback thing. And I only realised that 5 years later.

Having children may be normal, but it is still a huge thing. Even if it's all "normal".

ChippingIn - when I try to talk to him about it, he gets hurt, defensive etc. I feel guilty for this and we get nowhere. That is what prompted this late night thread, I am so wound up with him, and he feels helpless to fix it, as do I.

I don't think he or anyone can make me feel "safe" again. I truly could never have imagined that I would be treated as badly as I was in the hospital, during and after my daughter's birth. I was kept in for eight hellish days. I did not believe that people were generally capable of such callousness. When I made a formal complaint, the response was dismissive, and contained blatant lies and contradictions. So I know that I wasn't just unlucky.

In my counselling sessions - it was meant to be CBT, the counsellor seemed competent, but I had nothing to compare it to. I felt able to direct the counselling pretty much. We talked about the birth trauma, about my background etc. I had homework to do to tackle anxiety and avoidance behaviour - e.g. she wanted me to start driving again. I thought it was helpful, but after a point I did not feel that I was getting anything out of it.

I can think of a few ways that my DH could help me. For instance, I am struggling with my work. He could review it for me, give his opinions, help motivate me. He could help me sort out my finances (would be helping himself too!).

Animula, ouch at the punishing myself. Yes, that is possible too. And utterly destructive behaviour. I certainly feel guilty.

Thank you both again - if anything can help restore my faith in human kindness, this is it

Good luck.

Fwiw i suspect CBT was the wrong thing for this, and a birth trauma specialist might have been a bit better.

But really, wishing you all the best.

BTW - when I made my formal complaint part of the hospital's response was to offer me counselling for PTSD. I felt that this was part of them not taking me seriously, and refused it. I also wanted nothing further to do with a hospital which had been hopeless and shoddy in every dealing we had with them, across different departments.

So I arranged counselling privately, through my health insurance.

DH let me down badly during and after the birth of DD. IN my case it wasn't the medical proffessionals. I chose them carefully (midwives). But his mother arrived at the clinic hoping to "catch" me in labour . Luckily I'D already given birth [she could have stopped the labour FFS] She grabbed the baby without asking me while I was still lying down with my legs open

I buried the feelings of helplessness and anger because obviously in the first month or so you simply have to survive to look after your baby. BUt in time those buried feelings came back, all the more strong because I'D been ignoring them.

I think you should trust your instincts. You are angry that you were let down by him, and you're allowed to be. He, on the other hand, may not yet realise how badly he's let you down, and how important it is for your concerns to be taken seriously.

In my case, it wasn't so much what had happened that upset me, but the fact that he refused to acknowledge my feelings. To me, it added to the sense of loss of control.

New mothers deserve respect for the amazing feat they have just accomplished.

DH and I nearly divorced over him not taking this problem seriously because I simply could not live with someone who was oblivious to how much I had been let down at my most vulnerable.

After he "got it" though, everything was fine.

Trust your instincts

Footlong - it is him. I can't see him in the same way as I did before. I am trying to find a way to get past this and move on.

No actually it is you. You say you know it isnt really his fault, fine. Then you need to accept that you are the one causing the issues, and you are the one that needs to address them. Blaming someone else for ones own issues is common and nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone does it. As long as you keep blaming him for something that is not his fault, you will always have issues. You are unhappy and want to blame something or someone for this, he is the easiest target.

How would you react if he got annoyed at you for allowing this to happen and putting all the responsibility for how the hospital behaved on your shoulders?? Would you think that fair?

Dont blame him, or yourself, just go and talk to some experts in the field about these feelings.

Unwind I have PMed you. Sleep well.

It's hard to go against professionals, especially where babies (sick or otherwise) are concerned. I'm sure he was petrified, most people are when scbu is involved. I think you would be better off with specialist counseling. Sorry for your bad experience.

I had gestational diabetes with dc3 and after c-section was bf happily, all was well etc. I got a visit from a paed on the post-natal ward, who basically had her hand on ds's cot from the moment she appeared. She told me it was "hospital policy" to take gestational diabetes babies up to scbu, and I was endangering my baby and could cause brain damage if I refused . His blood sugars were being checked regularly on the ward, so I said no. She erm really wasn't happy. Even dp who is a bit unobservant said that she really didn't like being told no.

She was the reason I had to top him up, and ultimately bf failed, even though at no point were his blood sugars low.

Theres no getting away from it, some people (HCP included) are twats. I would never have said no to a Dr with my first. With my third, I knew he was fine and being well looked after.

Footlong, Ou are an extraordinarily insensitive poster. Unless you are in the relationship yourself and have a breakdown of all the ins and outs of the lives of each person involved, then you simply cannot make the claims you are doing. ONly God would know the things you claim to know.

THe OP has come here for support and that is what we must give her.

Telling her it is all her fault is not supportive. It sounds like something an abusive person would say. "IT's your fault he's not sensitive to your trauma " It is not constructive advice.

IT sounds like you're just trying to confuse the OP to serve your own agenda.

I think you should talk to your husband about this.

I say this because if it were me, this is what I'd need to do with my husband.

DH and I have been together for 18 years. I have always been the do-er. If a child is sick, I was always the one to phone around and get the night GP in or rush to the all night chemist. If the car was broken I'd be running around looking for quotes on the car.

It all built up over years and years and I eventually cracked. I became so tired of being the family "go-to girl" I just couldn't take it anymore. I was desparate for somebody else to take on some of the responsibility and make some decisions.

You know what was absolutely astounding, when I told my DH I felt this way he was gobsmacked. He had alway thought of me as the strong one who could do anything. Over the years he became used to his "learned helplessness" and it was totally exacerbated by me always stepping in and never letting him take control of anything.

It took months of talking about this to really see a change. My DH wasn't being mean, he wasn't being lazy, he was just fitting in with the our family dynamic and roles that we had carved for ourselves in our relationship/family.

Once he saw that I was unhappy with my role he moved heaven and earth to change this. He now takes charge on a lot of the "difficult" issues - and now "sticks" up for us where he never used to.

My very long winded point is that perhaps your husband just does not realise the depth of this issue. As my husband pointed out, he is not a mind reader. The status quo has to be challenged before it can be changed.

As another point out, we really do, at some quite primal level need our "man" to look after us. Our respect for our partners is rolled up into this and it sounds to me as if his lack of gumption in the hospital has caused a rift because you don't respect him.

Unwind - so :( for you that you have had this experience, it sounds horrendous.

It does rather sound as though you feel your DH let you down by not being aware enough of anything to take control of the situation when you were at your most vulnerable, and when you needed him to look after you and your DD's best interests. He didn't rise to the occasion and you have probably lost respect for him.

Respect is very hard to retrieve once it's gone and he needs to acknowledge that he screwed up, NOT because things at the hospital went pear-shaped (in the end, he probably couldn't have done much about that) BUT because he didn't do everything he could have done to try, either before or during the birth (or after, by the sounds of it).

PTSD counselling may work for you - but I think that you might be better having some couples counselling, so that you CAN tell him your feelings in a space where he has to listen, not get defensive and shut you down (probably due to his own feelings of guilt). And then he can tell you his feelings about the situation in the same way. Having a 3rd party present can help keep things under better control than if you try and do it on your own - and the counsellor can usually re-track the situation if it goes off on a tangent.

Something to think about, anyway.

Plus I don't really think you can expect him to do what you didn't. I think you are being unfair really, being a birth partner is scary, seeing the woman you love in pain/distress. He hadn't been through the experience before and nothing you can read can prepare you. As for nasty SCBU woman, I'm not sure, what exactly did you expect him to do?

And sakura what I actually said was not for her blame herself... but this...

Dont blame him, or yourself, just go and talk to some experts in the field about these feelings.

which is very different to what you claim I said

Telling her it is all her fault is not supportive

I think in your position i would be resentful towards my partner if he offered no real support when i needed it most. not being present for antenatal classes, not reading any books and then also not sticking up for you during the labour and now not making bold efforts to get things back on track is alot to contend with... it would lead me to believe that he shirks responsibility and puts his head in the sand. i'd have trouble trusting him after that.

i can also imagine he must feel very shitty about it but that shouldn't stop you both being able to have a proper in-depth conversation about it.

i find it very interesting that you had counselling on your own when his role in this was integral to the ongoing issue... why is that? was he invited and chose not to participate?

why not arrange some counselling/mediation sessions with both of you present? the grievances need to be aired properly so you can move forward.

Men often don't take ownership of the situation, when children / babies are involved. I think most of the men I know view it as "not their specialist subject" and expect their wives etc to take the lead IYSWIM?

My 1st birth was pretty traumatic, compared to many it was a walk in the park, but to me - pretty awful! I almost don't want to say this but I finally started to feel better about my 1st birth after I had dd2.

Because I had lost all control of the situation with dd1 I was prepared to be incredible feisty and stand up for myself - I didn't need too. It was very different.