Can't forgive him for birth trauma

[Unwind]

And I know it wasn't really his fault.

My DH wiggled out of going to antenatal classes and appointments with me, and would not read the books I tried to make him read, but otherwise did his best to be supportive.

That best was not good enough - he let hospital staff ignore and undermine me during labour and after our daughter's birth, when she was in SCBU. It was an unbelievable nightmare to me, and I did not stand up for myself or for her - so why do I feel so bitter that he did not? We were both naive, we trusted the professionals, who were in positions of authority, we were first time parents and did not have confidence in ourselves in that role.

But I have not been able to feel the same way about my DH since then. How can I get over this? I have tried counselling, it did not fix things.

Hi. It seems to me you're angry that he didn't protect you from the hcps but he shouldn't have had to. The fault was theirs and no apology is coming from them so your anger is still stifled and is being diverted to him. Iyswim. Talking it over with an expert om birth trauma sounds a good idea. And owning your feelings rather than trying to stifle them which is never good.

ok - i think you need to get some birth trauma counselling.

i quite honestly can't remember what dh was or wasn't doing when i was labouring with dd2, but she's 7 now and it's only been the last year that i haven't had flashbacks.

i think that you need to deal with your own experiences before you try and fathom out how dh's actions or inactions were involved - with specialist help. don't forget that you also 'trusted' the professionals to help and support you - but sometimes things happen during the birth that can't be foreseen. don't forget that dh trusted the professionals too...

everything changes when you have a baby. it's absolutely normal (even when the baby is perfectly healthy with a textbook birth) for the relationship between husband and wife to change. when there is a problem/ disability then this relationship is obviously even more subject to stress.

Do you really want the relationship to work is the first question you need to honestly answer?

(You could be trying to sabotage this relationship by continuing to hold these thoughts? and validating your honest desire to end the relationship. If that is the case, be honest and just move on without finding blame in him, to explain your own feelings )

If your honest appraisal is yes to continuing the relationship -you do need to tackle your thoughts. Footlong has a point- it is your thoughts that are the problem.

You know your DH did not do this to you. He may have not been the 'hero' you expected during labour but tbh hero expectation is a tough one!

For instance, I am struggling with my work. He could review it for me, give his opinions, help motivate me. He could help me sort out my finances (would be helping himself too!) You are an adult. He is not your parent. I appreciate this is an eample of what you want him to do to help you but it does sound a little bit like you expect a parent figure as a partner?

If that sounds harsh I'm sorry :)

I had PTSD after a birth and it was horrible and did impact on my relationship. I think it's important to not assume everyone else around you is 'wrong' though nor assume that if they are 'right' you must be wrong.

Things can happen without it being anyone's fault...including yours.

So awful. Haven't read all this as anything to do with bad births angers me.

I had bad birth as well, midwife flirted openly with my husband whilst I lay there in agony, asked me constantly if I'd swallowed an encyclopedia, put in my notes I was hysterical, attention seeking, "educated". Ended up having an emergency section and the Consultant said I should have had it 6 hours earlier as it was obvious something was wrong. Pelvis xray afterwards confirmed this.

H and I were so traumatised afterwards and H was so filled with guilt about everything. He just hadn't known what to do and neither did I. Complaint to the hospital resulted in visit by the senior midwife, did little to help really. I had poor counselling with counsellor who got furious about my treatment.

Better counsellor 7 years later, I'd always refused to consider having more kids but she broached this with me and I dicovered I did want more and ended up with my dd who was a planned C section. H went for a slap up breakfast at the hospital whilst she was being delivered and we both have good memories of that and it did help heal the previous experience.

I feel that men are pressurised into being with their wives whilst they're in delivery and as a result the women can get neglected by the staff as they seem to think the men can handle things and they can't.

I wouldn't be hard on your H. My H said he wished he'd have had counselling after and I think it would have helped him. He said he felt totally helpless and useless and just didn't know what to do. This was 18 years ago and it stayed with us.

If counselling didn't help you, maybe seek another counsellor. My second one helped hugely, totally different to the first one, she looked at how I was feeling rather than what had happened.

Hope you and H get through this.

Unwind, I would follow the suggestion of others and say that perhaps counselling for both of you is the way forward. I had a traumatic birth with DD1, and went back to the hospital for birth trauma counselling (I had no issues with the care the hospital provided though).

I went on my own once, then the midwife suggested that I came back with DH. He (reluctantly!) came, and during our talk, the midwife suggested that part of the issue was that I felt I had let DH down, by not having the calm, earth-motherish type birth I thought I should have done. This was not something either of us had considered, and was, on examination, quite true. I don't think we would have got to this point without an external dispassionate observer pointing it out to us, and was a turning point for me in coming to terms with what happened. It also forced him to acknowledge my feelings, even if he thought they were irrational, as being very real to me.

I should say that DH did not feel let down in any way - that was me projecting my feelings of failure onto him. He admitted much later that he found it extremely difficult to watch me during DD1's birth, as I was in such pain and distress, and he just wanted to put it all behind him and get on with being part of our new family.

I wish you the very best of luck in coming through this, and enjoying your family in the way you expected to.

You have both had a terrible experience and there are many different elements to it which need to be addressed.

I agree with much of the advice here... which actually isn't that contradictory. IMO you do need more therapy, for both the traumatic birth and to address aspects of your relationship as well as your anger towards your husband. You probably need some therapy on your own and some together with your husband. I doubt very much whether CBT was the right choice for you (and feel that the practitioner should have thought about that). Can you contact the Birth Trauma Association

www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk/

and see if they can put you in touch with anyone?

I hope your husband is able to do this with you. You can both be stronger for doing this too (I know this, having had an experience that in some ways echoed yours).

Try and get some more and better help before things deteriorate further... and take very good care of yourself.

I had this problem with my first delivery - I was very prepared, had all my options decided, if things went well, or if it was going badly. DH came to the antenatal classes and felt that he was prepared, but it turned out that he wasn't.

I was in labour a long time and coped well, but became completely exhausted in the end. The doctors were trying to bully me, and DH let them, even though he knew that what was happening was my biggest fear (instrumental birth when C section was medically a valid option). Not only was the delivery traumatic, but the instrumental birth left me with painful scars that made sex impossible, and despite pushing hard for a solution, all the gynaes agreed that I would just have to put up with it - surgery wasn't a good option.

All I could think was that I had dealt with all the pain and hard labour, and all he had to do was remember to ask the BRAIN questions if they wanted to do an instrumental delivery, and instead he joined in the bullying when I was writhing around in agony.

One of the biggest problems that we had was that I really needed to talk and talk and talk it out, but he would shut down any conversation because he felt guilty that he'd let me down. He was so shut down about it that I thought that he was going to leave me for someone who was physically capable of sex. When he admitted that he knew how badly he had let me down, and told me how terrified he was of my pain and how convinced he was that the baby was going to die, then it did get better. Once he "got" how scared I was that he would leave me, he was able to reassure me about that too.

Bizarrely, our horrible infertility was acutally a bonus for us in the end. We couldn't conceive through sex anyway (even if we could have had sex), so I had fertility treatment and became pregnant again. The pregnancy was emotionally very difficult and I was terrified of the delivery. In the end, with lots of support from the medical profession, I decided to risk trying another vaginal delivery. It was amazing - another long painful delivery, but DH was a fantastic birth partner. For most of the labour we were on our own as the ward was very busy, but it didn't matter. He was great. He had done loads of research, and with the previous experience to draw on too, he really got it. He knew that if the professionals were hanging around chatting about what they could do, then the baby was not in any danger - no time to chat in an emergency situation! And as a massive and surprising bonus, the delivery stretched out my previous scarring enough to make sex possible again.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that you get pregnant to solve your problems! But we found that when DH acknowledged my problems then it helped me feel a lot less bitter. When we were put in a situation where he could support me again, it was completely healing.

I hope you are about to sort it out.

Well I think it is justifiable anger. Your DH CHOSE not to go to the antenatal classes where he would be prepared for helping you throught this type of situation. He CHOSE not to read the books. I don't say it is the worst crime ever, but he is culpable.

Just from reading your OP, I wonder whether the reason you are so angry is that you don't think he did his best overall (even though he did once the birth started) -- you asked him to do things to prepare before the birth, when he wasn't under stress and wasn't in a stressful situation, and he didn't?

I do think good counselling for both of you is the best option, with someone who is a specialist in birth trauma. There are going to be all sorts of emotional issues involved here for both of you that need to be unpacked. It sounds as though your earlier counselling was aimed more at dealing with the symptoms and consequences of your trauma than with engaging with the root issues -- which is potentially fine considering you as an individual in isolation, but these feelings are going deep to the root of your marriage.

I think you need to do 2 things, OP:

1. Get proper birth/trauma counselling, that includes you and DH

1. Stop thinking of your DH as the one who has to sort things out for you (eg your work, finances) He's your husband, not your Dad

I had a bad first birth, and also felt angry with DH that he hadn't been a better advocate for me. The difference is, he also felt bad about that, and openly admitted that seeing me in pain was the cause of this. Him admitting and taking ownership of the fact that (in my case) he didn't support my birthplan once labour started, and colluded with the midwife to bully me into an epidural, made it quite easy to forgive. We were both naive about birth, we made mistakes.

I think you need couples counseling actually, with Relate or whoever; the fact that he gets defensive when you talk about it is the thing that worries me most.

Part of my healing process (knowing that we wanted a large family) was putting a better plan in place for 2nd time round. We had my mum there, as well as DH, and it was 100X better. I have had some difficult things to deal with, including a baby in SCBU, with some of my later 3DC, but DH has really worked well with me as a team in dealing with situations as they arise, and really been a great advocate.

Unwind - I am not a psychiatrist or a counsellor, obviously, so I will preface my comments with that first!

One thing that shouts out to me from your posts is about the shift that you and your DH are making from being adults to being parents.

It's a huge shift, and you will read many, many posts on MN about the difficulties that people have in this regard, not just in the immediate weeks/months after a birth, but in the years to follow as well. In some cases, it's unsurmountable.

You are angry because your DH didn't stand up for you - but I think you are also angry with yourself, because you didn't stand up for yourself either. And the words you have used about your DH suggest that you are angry with him for not taking a parental role:

"I can think of a few ways that my DH could help me. For instance, I am struggling with my work. He could review it for me, give his opinions, help motivate me. He could help me sort out my finances (would be helping himself too!)."

This is asking your DH to be your father/teacher, rather than your partner/lover/friend/equal adult.

I thought it was very telling that your counsellor suggested that you start driving again - being a driver is both an adult thing as well as something that gives you independence and means you're not relying on anyone, i.e. it means you're taking responsibility for yourself.

I also think it's telling that you have stopped the counselling and refused the offer of PSTD counselling. Because you thought they weren't working for you.

This may sound mean, and I don't mean it to, as it's clear that you have had/are having a tough time, but it sounds to me as if you're actually pushing help away in order to focus your anger on someone else. Pushing it away is about pushing away the responsibility of accepting your role in it - especially the role of becoming a parent too.

I hope this doesn't sound too out of order, and - as I said at the beginning - I'm not professionally qualified in any way! But if these words help in any way, I would be pleased.

One final thing; the actions of the hospital and their staff do sound truly horrible. Beyond rejecting their offer of PTSD counselling have you pursued this any further?

I hope very much that you can resolve this in a way that works for you.

Sakura - yes, re the loss of control. Maybe that is what a lot of it is about, I felt that I had control taken away from me from the time I was induced. I had no say in what happened to me or my baby, and was not even given information, nevermind respect. I know that childbirth is inherently uncertain, but treating me better would have allowed me to get on with it.

CoinOperatedGirl, Nickoftime - I honestly don't believe that more therapy, on my own, would help. Maybe couples therapy would. I do think I should have been able to expect more of him, in terms of assertiveness than I was able to muster. I had been induced over three days, all on the delivery ward, and denied food for that time (not for medical reasons it turns out). Afterwards I was told that I had to be there for all of DD's three hourly feeds, to do her nappy change, and attempt breastfeeding while she was tube fed. I was also told that it was especially important that I supply enough colostrum for those feeds, there was nobody who would help me express the colostrum, so I had literally no time to sleep - I had to walk across the hospital, tend to my DD, wring my breasts out (leaving them badly bruised) and then repeat.

Even in the state I was in, I think that if anyone had told me that a nurse was undermining and tormenting them the way that nurse was me, I would have been more supportive and say it was unacceptable. She was never nasty when my DH was there, when I would tell him about the things she was saying to me, he would talk about it being "straight talking" Now he says it was like a kind of Stockholm syndrome - the staff had all the power, they assumed authority over us and our newborn. I was desperate to look like I was coping, in the hope that our baby would be released from SCBU, so started dressing and applying makeup, instead of getting five minutes' rest, or something to eat.

PadmeHum - yes there is a point there. I think he thought that everything around the pregnancy and birth was my area, and despite my begging him to take more of an interest, he just didn't see that as his role.

Blinks - he was never offered counselling. Maybe he should have been. I don't think he sees himself as needing it, or that it is a problem in our marriage, he thinks it is a problem with me.

Victorias - yes, it does make him sound like my parent rather than my partner, but it was honestly the only thing that I could think of, that might help me in some practical way, as chipping in suggested. It would never previously have occurred to me to ask him for help with that, and I would not see it as an ongoing thing.

I don't think that I expected him to be a "hero", and I certainly did not expect him to need to stand up to crappy hospital staff who couldn't be bothered to help us (they were gossiping within my hearing a lot of the time that I desperately needed help). Here is an example, which he thinks is trivial - my DD was in distress, We were told I was going to have an emergency section as "we need to get this baby out, now", and had an epidural top up, then they noticed she was crowning. So they did an episiotomy and got the ventouse. The registrar told my DH to come have a look - he said no, we had agreed beforehand that he would not, I said I did not want him to look, both midwife and registrar told him again to come and look, so he did. He apologised afterwards, but doesn't think that was a big deal. I felt humiliated at the time, moments before our daughter was born - not so much because he looked, but because he went against my explicit request.

Hmm, I agree that you're trying to put responsibility onto your dh unfairly.

I also had a very traumatic first birth, ds1 severely brain damaged, in SCBU etc etc.

It was an utter nightmare, but I never for one second blamed dh for any of it, even though he hadn't gone to many NCT classes or read any books. It was the staff who didn't notice that ds1's heart had stopped, and didn't pick up on various other signs that all was very badly wrong.

Not many first time fathers could be expected to argue with medical professionals in those circs and I think you should stop blaming him, tbh.

In isolation and from an objective viewpoint it does seem relatively trivial, BUT on the other hand I can entirely see why it is a huge deal for you. You were in a position where almost all control had been taken away from you and he ripped away the last shred of it that remained by ignoring your last very specific request. And it's easier to fix on him, as the one who had a relationship with you and you felt you should be able to rely on, than to focus on the medical staff who were encouraging him to ignore your request.

wow, lots of x posts

Thank you SpiritualKnot - I hope we can get past this eventually, as you did. I can't imagine wanting another baby now, but my DH does.

BecauseImWorthIt - I did not feel able to face the ombudsman within the 12 month window. Not because of the ombudsman, but the lies and contradictions in the letters I eventually recieved from the hospital (several months after I made my complaint), convinced me that management would simply protect their own. I did not feel strong enough to face an adversarial battle with them. I do feel guilt about that too, especially since the useless midwife I had for the birth, and the nasty paediatric nurse will almost certainly have inflicted trauma on other women since then.

MrsTittleMouse - thank you for that, it took a good 8 months before sex was possible for me, but I do seem to have healed now. I met with my consultant twice after the birth (DH could not make either appointment). The first time she was sympathetic and arranged another appointment with medical exam, which hurt a lot, but she said there was nothing wrong, and while I was still shaking after the examination she went through my complaint, dismissing most of it.

Thank you all for your responses.

I think that some births are quite shocking experiences, and you should think of it as both being in it together. He must have felt powerless too.

Like many posters here, I had a traumatic first birth. I felt that my OH and I were both in it together, at the mercy of the medical professionals. Your OH must have been in total shock at the ventouse - I'll never forget the look of horror and shock on my OH's face. Then later in special care, I met another husband whose wife had had twins, no time for pain relief. He sat next to me going over the birth again and again, and how terrible it had been - he said she'd been treated like an animal, and he hadn't been able to do anything.

I can quite see why you feel as you do, but sometimes people who would normally be your best advocate are unable to help. If when you were a child, and had been in a car accident, your father would have been able to step in and be your advocate in the hospital. But if he had been involved in the crash, or even caused it, he would have been deeply affected and unable to fulfill the role. It's not necessarily a general indication of how they are normally, just that they were a part of the event, iyswim.

Checkmate said it better than me - once DH had taken ownership of his mistakes and we had talked about them openly then it was much easier. It also meant that I could talk openly with him about the delivery again without him shutting the conversation down, which was very important to me.

I also think that the fact that there were good reasons for the DHs to mess up, it doesn't mean that they didn't mess up! They are both true, and neither cancels out the other.

If I was very depressed and became addicted to shopping as a result and spent our savings, then there was a reason why I put us in financial danger (the depression), but that doesn't mean that I didn't do something wrong to DH, or shouldn't admit it and try to put it right.

After reading the whole thread, im really sorry for your feelings from the birth, but i really cant see why its your DH's fault. Sorry, but i cant, he was no doubt in shock, scared top death etc too, and simply wasnt in a position to do what you needed him too, which is a shame, as you would have both had a more positive experience, its a shame but it isnt his fault. You really need more counselling of some description, i think you need to find another way of dealing with this without blaming your DH.

You also need to focus on the fact that your dd is absolutely fine and not in any way damaged by her treatment.

mumblechum - I hope that is true. And I do know how incredibly lucky we are that, while she has some developmental delays, we have her and she is unlikely to have profound SN. I think awareness of how fortunate we have been, in that respect, makes it harder to come to terms with the trauma, in that I keep thinking that I should feel grateful that we were able to take her home. I know it could have been much worse, and it was, for many who are reading and posting here.

Does your DH duck out of other things and not back you up?

Or was it "only" in the baby/birth thing?

I know my mother never really forgave my dad for not standing up for her whenever his mother was horribly rude to my mum. Mum thought dad should have defended her, however, my dad's nature is not to be confrontational, and so he never stood up to his mother ever, even when she behaved appallingly.

Is your DH someone who doesn't like confrontation? HAs he "let you down" in other circumstances? If he is the kind of person who can't cope with things then he cannot be accepted to cope with birth stuff as most men are pretty hopeless on their own and rely on their wives for this.

Does he understand how devestated you were feeling? My DH said beofre the birth that he would stay there if he could, but he was worried he wouln't cope and would have to leave. This was very honest of him and he even said it in the antenatal group, and the other men got a bit uppy as if they wouldn't even admit to feeling this way (although I'm sure a lot of them did).

In the end DH did manage to get through the birth but it shoook him quite a bit, he was worried to death I wouldn't survive and he admits now that he was worried about me but DD, when she appeared was "a stranger" to him, he just looked in the cot and thought "who is that?"

As you can see my DH is very honest and a lot of men, even if they felt that way, wouldn't admit it.

What DH did do, which I think your DH didn't, was concern himself with my welfare, he stood over the obstretrician for instance and told him to put extra stitches in and even pulled out the consultant's notes about how my wounds were to be stitched (I have a strange medical condition in that my skin heals slowly).

Even then DH says he didn't bond with DD until she was about 18 months and he was so upset by the whole birth that he said he didn't want me to go through it again.

I think it would be good if you and your DH spoke about the birth and the feelings you still have. You may also need to talk to your DH about your relationship in general and how important it is for the woman to feel supported, I didn't expect DH to be much use during the delivery other than he kept me calm, and spoke to me while 300 doctors buzzed round my nether regions.

Sometimes men are trying to solve a problem (and men cannot solve birth) rather than consider how they can help in other ways, and making you feel supported is very important even if he didn't/doesn't realise that.

To clarify re possible damage, because it is relevant to my coming to terms with this - DD was tiny, and identified as at risk of hypoglycaemia when she was born. Staff repeatedly refused to help me feed her. The midwife who was there for the birth insisted that any help with breastfeeding was provided on the postnatal ward, where we were moved over four hours later, when we tried to insist on help, another midwife said that skin-to-skin was best, but we could not get our baby to open her mouth. On arrival on the postnatal ward, a midwife latched her on badly, and told me to move her to the other side after 20 minutes, and they were too busy to help after that. Visiting hours were over, so they told DH to go home, and he went.

When I buzzed for help another four hours later, after she had been crying, a health care assistant told me to just "go to sleep, she'll still be there in the morning". When a midwife finally looked at my DD, she was brought straight under a heat lamp, they tested her blood sugars and rushed her to SCBU, where the paediatrician talked about further brain damage if I would not consent to formula by naso gastric tube. He also said that breastmilk was "especially important for her". So I was frantically determined to provide it.

We were not allowed any further information on her prognosis or care plan for the following four days. We kept asking to speak to a paediatrician, and were always told it would be arranged, but it never happened. We were ordered out of the ward when the paeds came to do their rounds.

Thanks Miggsie - yes, he does sometimes not back me up where I think he should, and while I've never realised it until I read your post, he is someone who always avoids confrontation. Even with me.

He does cope with things in general - he is unflappable, if that makes sense, and never loses his temper.