Can't forgive him for birth trauma

[Unwind]

And I know it wasn't really his fault.

My DH wiggled out of going to antenatal classes and appointments with me, and would not read the books I tried to make him read, but otherwise did his best to be supportive.

That best was not good enough - he let hospital staff ignore and undermine me during labour and after our daughter's birth, when she was in SCBU. It was an unbelievable nightmare to me, and I did not stand up for myself or for her - so why do I feel so bitter that he did not? We were both naive, we trusted the professionals, who were in positions of authority, we were first time parents and did not have confidence in ourselves in that role.

But I have not been able to feel the same way about my DH since then. How can I get over this? I have tried counselling, it did not fix things.

Where has the OP said she's refusing therapy? She went for CBT (the wrong kind of therapy for trauma, but GPs don't know that). She refused an offer of treatment from the very organisation that caused her trauma. I can empathise with that. She has said she'll seek out a therapist from the Birth Trauma Association, which sounds like the best thing does it not?

Here actually

I honestly don't believe that more therapy, on my own, would help.

^There is a potential conversation that goes like this, Footlong:
"My god, that was hell, what bastard medics, I should never have had that epidural, the timing was wrong."
"I know, I saw what you went through, it was awful, I should never have agreed to the epidural. I didn't know. I feel awful."
This conversation does not appear to have happened.^

No, that conversation should not happen, because it is rubbish to blame him for this. That is just one side blaming the other, one way empathy and self aborbtion.

"To give more info, my DH did pressure me to have an epidural, because he could not bear to see me in pain.

Hardly the actions of a guy trying to undermine his prtner or not support her... he was trying."

Being pressured in labour to take a course of action is not actually a very nice thing to happen to someone, footlong. Being charitable, he was ignorant of procedures and was only trying to help in a very misguided way. But then again, he could have helped and been more effectively supportive if he'd made the effort to learn about the scary life changing event about to happen to them both, particularly his wife.

I agree that blame is probably counterproducive in this situation, but perfectly natural to feel aggrieved considering the circumstances.

Would suggest a couple of sessions of couples therapy to work this out. Clearly this is a problem in the relationship that wont go away without talking about it.

That doesn't look like blaming to me, it looks like empathy. Which clearly has a different meaning on your planet than mine. Possibly the 2 of your posts I've ever agreed with are the only two I ever will, so I'm giving up on this.

I really agree with Footlong, Blaming the husband for a bad birth! next thing it'll be litigation.

Bad births happen everyday and unless you have had one (or two) in my case there are various reasons and my husband was not to blame. Even though he could of put me off the first c-section because imo it wasnt needed. At the time the tension in the room wasnt for a 'non-medical person' to pipe up opinions.

To even expect your partner to make excuses for his behaviour and say what Itsgoulagain is ludicrous - what your saying really he's accepting the whole terrible birth was down to him - actually appauling!

To bring up an argument with a blame like this can only wreck a relationship which in turn will be brought up in every confrontation. I'm afraid a decent man wouldnt take that and if it were my husband - he'd give me a load of earful and tell me to sort my head out otherwise its over, total disrespect for me and feel that everyone around (family & friends)would agree.

I did get in contact with the Traumatic birth association and it took a while for a lovely reply. What she said was my birth was the harder than any natural birth (crash c-section) and we should be proud of ourselves for getting through this horrendous time. It did help me, but you also have to help yourself.

I wonder if there are slight issues before the birth too?

I'm confused. Do recent respondents really not see any difference between accepting you made a mistake - and regretting its consequences - and taking the blame for everything that happened? As I posted earlier, I do feel OP is suffering from PTSD and will benefit from appropriate counselling. But I don't feel that negates her feeling insufficiently supported by her partner. My post above neither suggested he was at fault for what happened, nor that he should take the blame. It suggested a basic level of empathy. He did make a mistake, albeit in good faith. Why should he not admit that & share her distress?

as I am finding some of these responses quite distressing, I can only imagine how they're making the OP feel!

Have some empathy people - it's deeply unpleasant to hit someone when they're already down.

ItsGhoul - agree with you.

To be a non medical person in that situation and your wife is in distress, your baby is in life threatening danger... and to expect him to over rule the 'experts' is non sensical and unreasonable. You expect him with zero meduical training in this area to start telling the doctors and MW's what to do? What if he over ruled them, made a mistake and your baby or you died? Did you explicitly agree to him having the final call during the birth? It seems you resent it when he did try and act (the epidural) and resent him when he didnt try and act. Poor guy cant win.

Ghoul - Take a look at your suggested conversation again and tell me which part shows shared responsibilty (or shared innonence)? It doesnt, that conversation you proposed is all about him admitting he shouldnt have agreed to it, and her just saying she shouldnt have had it.

But arent we both getting mired down in semantics about an imaginary conversation?

Have some empathy people - it's deeply unpleasant to hit someone when they're already down

Empathy you mean just agree with her actions? well maybe if she hadnt coming to a public forum actively asking for opinions....

I have plenty of empathy, but unlike others, I share it for her husband, her daughter and her.

How about you lot show some empathy for him and the daughter that might be part fo a broken home because of her misguided blame?

footlong. you're overstating everything and i doubt it's helping the OP. you've made your (over dramatic) point... nowhere does she say that she's divorcing him over this, just that she's finding it hard to get past it.

and if you need 'empathy' explained to you, you're clearly lacking some.

It's not about what he should and shouldn't have done at the time - agree it would have been very difficult for him to overrule them. It's about recognising that she actually is traumatised and not trying to push it all under the carpet. He is probably still secretly feeling bad that he didn't say anything. I think if he admitted he felt bad or let her know that he knows she was traumatised and that he doesn't think she's just overreacting, that would go a long way to making her feel better - not just going 'Wasn't my fault, end of'. But 'At the time I felt x which was why I didn't overrule them. Now I feel y, and I know that you feel z and I hope you know I will always try to keep you safe' etc.

but he has, hasn't he? he told the op that he felt he had to do what the profs said, in a sort of stockholm syndrome-type way. he trusted them implicitly with the safety of his wife and baby. surely that is his explanation of the way he acted?

blinks - You are yet another friend of hyperbole I see.. whilst at the same time being pedantic.... nifty trick.

I am not overstating 'everything', and are you seriously denying that given the OP thoughts and attitude that seperation isnt a possibilty eventually? And it might not be driven by her, if he feels blamed and unwelcome, he might make the decision, or do things that do push her to making the decision. Her attitude is dangeorus to the the marriage.

But I said 'may' because it is only a possibility not a certainty.

It's not about what he should and shouldn't have done at the time

errr yes it is!! Look at the first post again.

you ARE over-dramatising the OP's perceived intentions to prove your point, which i find unnecessary and unhelpful.

all conflict in a relationship could potentially be 'dangerous' but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be acknowledged and discussed. OP has stated that her DH has gone on to be a fabulous and dedicated father, so it seems unlikely that she's looking to end the relationship... she has a problem getting past resentment tied up with his lack of involvement in the pregnancy and birth which i'm sure alot of women can appreciate and empathise with... the fact that her birth was traumatic has added to the intensity of her emotion.

to say that expressing resentment towards him might make him leave her is ridiculous and scare mongering.

to say that expressing resentment towards him might make him leave her is ridiculous and scare mongering

No it isnt, it is the reality. She doesnt have a monopoly on feelings in the relationship.

You think you are being empathetic, I think you are being naive about his possible reaction to her unreasonable behaviour.

how is it the reality? because you say so? how arrogant.

This board is full of examples of woman saying they dont deserve to be the emotional kicking bag of a partner. Quite right, even if the male parter has mental issues the advice is often to leave him... excuses for him are not tolerated.

Now at this stage I have no reason to think that the OP treats the husband that badly, but if she refuses therapy for her issues, and continues to blame and resent her husband, it will manifest itself in a dysfunctional marriage.

So sorry if I find your advice of just 'empathising' with the person rather trivial. The OP needs therapy so she can work through her very real issues.

And before anyone jumps on me I AM NOT BLAMING HER for feeling bad, I am not saying what she is feeling isnt awful, I am not saying she should just 'get over it' or anything like that. I am just sayng that she is the cause of her relationship issues not her husband and for sake of her own self, she needs to talk to specialists and get it sorted, because her current approach is likely to end badly.. for everyone concerned.
I was more understanding towards her before she declared therapy for her ,on her own, would not help.

how is it the reality? because you say so? how arrogant

Because of the 'might' word. Very important. Are you saying there is no chance of it happening? Seriously? If you are.. then that is far more arrogant, and if you are not.. then you agree with me.

sheesh

Footlong, given that you have never given birth, can you really not see that in this particular case, where we are talking specifically about the damage that a bad birth can do to a woman (who is the person experiencing the pain, who is being disempowered, who is having their body damaged and their wishes overruled) that just maybe perhaps your thoughts and feelings are slightly less likely to be helpful than the many women here who have personally experienced bad births?

Of course the father in the support role can find it difficult and traumatic, and that is totally valid too, but it's not the father who is asking for support in this thread.

Unwind had what sounds like a really fairly horribly scary and demeaning birth experience. If one of the outcomes of that is that she feels angry and upset that her husband didn't play the role she had fairly reasonably hoped for (it's not unreasonable to hope that the person who you think loves you most in the world should be on your side) that is really not her fault. It might not be her husband's fault either, but she is in no way "the cause of her relationship issues" the cause of her relationship issues is almost certainly that she had an appalling experience which she hasn't recovered from.

I worked with a midwife who told me that she thought that the trend to have fathers at births was not 100% positive, as this sort of experience is sadly not that unusual. My sister went through something fairly similar (resolved in her case by having a home birth with a doula second time around and not expecting very much from her dh) whilst my dh and I had something of the reverse (he felt I shut him out). The thing is that it's not an experience you can take a dry run at. You don't know how you are going to feel or react, and neither does your partner, and sadly you can't guarantee that you will be treated with sensitivity or compassion by your birthing team. Her view was that the best birth supporter were older women who had experienced birth themselves and who whilst being totally there for you didn't have the emotional investment of a partner (plus not feeling that they are responsible).

I'd second the advice to speak with someone who specialises in recovery after a difficult birth experience. It's not a judgment on you that you were traumatized and still are, once you have worked throguh your feelings, and understand and come to terms with what happened I would also say that having a third party may help in some really difficult conversations with your dh (probably for both of you).

in MY eyes, he's at fault due to the combination of not attending antenatal, not reading any books/info and then not offering support during labour

Sounds like my hubby tbh. He barely attended an appointment for either of our dds, didn't do the antenatal course with dd2 (neither of us did it with dd1). Although I don't hold it against him at all. It is just something that they don't do. I don't know many men who have read the books.

He also couldn't be there for the crash section I had for dd1 & for dd2 I had MIL in theatre. Dh has a huge hospital/dr phobia.

I don't understand OP, why it was so terrible that he looked? I would have truly given ANYTHING for dh to be able to see his girls come into this world. I don't know why it was a huge problem?

I am sorry that you are suffering & feel let down, but imo this is more due to your expectations, rather than his inaction. You do feel like you lose control during child birth, I felt a complete failure that dd1 was a section at 36 weeks. But I realised, in time, that the birth is such a small part of her life. And that, and good friends, helped me heal.

nooka - I should have know that someone would try that track eventually.

I can put the counter argument very easily, none of you have been a male in that situation and can empathise what it would be like for the female to blame a man for things he had no control over, when he might be traumatised yourself. If anything I think my view is more important because it is a different perspective, and the OP is making a big mistake if she ignores her husbands perspective.

I dont think this is an issue over the birth, thats lready been decided that it was traumatic, I am not aware of anyone disputing that it was bad and the OP is hurting, this thread is about her relationship post birth with her husband, and that isnt a woman only situation.

(it's not unreasonable to hope that the person who you think loves you most in the world should be on your side) that is really not her fault

Silly talk, of course he was on her side. In fact he is also criticised for being so distressed by her pain he pushed for more pain relief than she wanted.

that is really not her fault. It might not be her husband's fault either, but she is in no way "the cause of her relationship issues" the cause of her relationship issues is almost certainly that she had an appalling experience which she hasn't recovered from.

I never said it was her fault, I have made that clear a number of times, I have said it is her issues which are causing this angst. The fix has to come from her and blaming anyone is counter productive.... which is what she is currently doing.

An analogy would be if your partner got hit by a bus and needed your full time care for a month. Her issues would cause you angst, but it isnt her fault. Blame and acknowledgement of issues are different.

dh was fairly traumatised by dd1's birth (elcs), ds1's birth (back to back, internal rotation attempts, then he fell asleep on the chair next to the bed for, oo, 4 hours or so until the 1-1 nurse (syntocinon drip) asked me if she should wake him up and get him a coffee at this point they were considering emcs) and dd2 was the real birth trauma.

"Footlong Wed 13-Oct-10 01:48:35
Footlong - it is him. I can't see him in the same way as I did before. I am trying to find a way to get past this and move on.

No actually it is you. You say you know it isnt really his fault, fine. Then you need to accept that you are the one causing the issues, and you are the one that needs to address them. Blaming someone else for ones own issues is common and nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone does it. As long as you keep blaming him for something that is not his fault, you will always have issues. You are unhappy and want to blame something or someone for this, he is the easiest target."

This pretty clearly states that you think it is her fault, even if later in the same post you tell her not to blame herself either. Can't have it both ways.