Can't forgive him for birth trauma

[Unwind]

And I know it wasn't really his fault.

My DH wiggled out of going to antenatal classes and appointments with me, and would not read the books I tried to make him read, but otherwise did his best to be supportive.

That best was not good enough - he let hospital staff ignore and undermine me during labour and after our daughter's birth, when she was in SCBU. It was an unbelievable nightmare to me, and I did not stand up for myself or for her - so why do I feel so bitter that he did not? We were both naive, we trusted the professionals, who were in positions of authority, we were first time parents and did not have confidence in ourselves in that role.

But I have not been able to feel the same way about my DH since then. How can I get over this? I have tried counselling, it did not fix things.

Unwind, you have had a truly horrific experience, and my heart bleeds for you.

You don't have to justify your feelings to anyone about what you went through, and if you feel deep down that your DH compounded your misery then this must be addressed. There is no point in counting your blessings or looking on the bright side because this thing that has surfaced between you needs to be dealt with.

I am intrigued by his refusal to go to antenatal classes with you, his refusal to read any books that you wanted him to read, and your assertion that he was supportive as best he could be. Nevertheless, he was supportive on his own terms, and when the birth arrived his refusal to be genuinely supportive in the way you knew he should have been resulted in woefully inadequate help on his part as far as I can gather from your posts. He basically buried his head in the sand during your pregnancy and then found himself clueless about what you needed or even what constituted reasonable care by the medical staff for you and your baby. He took a huge chance that the delivery would be picture perfect and the two of you would return home with the baby and he would get away with his bad behaviour during your pregnancy as far as I can see.

Do you have any idea what he was feeling during your pregnancy when he was wiggling out of the antenatal classes and refusing to read the books about childbirth? Was he happy to become a father? Does he normally deal with things that come up that he finds difficult to cope with by adopting a stubborn attitude of doing things on his own terms, sticking to his guns and disregarding the possibility of things going wrong?

3thumbwitch - Of course you can... I will repeat the analogy I used.

An analogy would be if your partner got hit by a bus and needed your full time care for a month. His/Her issues would cause you angst, but it isnt his/her fault.... you cannot always blame her for the issues she has. Blame and acknowledgement of issues are different.

Someone can have issues and it not be their fault.. thats a simple concept surely????

No, none of us have been the father in that situation. And if it was a dad posting for support you might indeed be absolutely the person to offer support (and I think it is often needed and rarely available, at least easily). But it isn't. The OP has quite clearly said that her feelings are directly related to her experiences during the birth and the immediate period afterward, so yes, this is about the birth, and how that has impacted the way that she feels towards her husband.

Taking your side means supporting you. Not siding with the healthcare professions when they are bullying you, and not acting against your wife's direct wishes just because you are being pressured to do so. My dh for example during the birth of our son very strongly advocated for me, making sure that the healthcare professionals did not just pack me off to be induced as was standard practice for an early break of waters and no labour. He was able to do so because he had attended antenatal classes (where they got us all to talk through what really mattered to us as well as covered all the bases on intervention) and done his research and knew that what they wanted was not necessarily required. It was great to have him fight my battle when I wasn't in a position to do so myself (and very lucky he did, as ds was transverse oblique and would not have come out vaginally, so his intervention saved me a huge amount of pain and no doubt distress to ds too, as we had a fairly immediate c-section as a result of the extra scan they did when dh suggested that we might go home).

Generally speaking in all relationship issues (except for abuse, unreasonable behaviour etc) it takes both parties to speak together, resolve things and move on. Expecting one party to do that on their own is likely to lead to resentment and failure. This is not necessarily a blame game. For example my dh was very unhappy during the birth of our second child because I didn't turn to him and enable him to help me in the same way he was able to do so for our first birth. But we weren't communicating well at the time and I didn't feel he was there for me. Neither of us were to blame. We both played a part (as did the totally unengaged and unsupportive midwife) in things not working out well, and until we were able to apologise to each other and talk about our mutual hurt we couldn't move on. It's still a very sore spot for dh, but no longer the canker it was for a good year or two. It wasn't his issue, it was our problem.

Unwind,

You clearly had a dreadful time and the kind of pain you were in and feeling of being out of control have scarred you, for which good counselling seems appropriate. Also, although it is doubtful it would have made much difference, your husband should have supported you before the birth by going to all the ante natal classes etc.

Having said that, there is no way on earth any man, unless he happens to be an obstetrician, can confidently overrule a medical team. If he had told you to grin and bear it and not have an epidural, posters would blame him for being an insensitive oaf. As you say yourself, he did his best and made his best calls with the information available at the time.

You are now a family and your birth trauma would be a sad reason to break it up. Unless you feel you cannot forgive him for his lack of pre-birth support (did it not upset you at the time?), there does not really seem anything else he did wrong. If he is a decent father and a loving husband, you have to try to find it in yourself to find a better counsellor to deal with your own issues around your traumatic birth.

I think weasling out of prenatal classes and refusing to read books about childbirth in short doing nothing to prepare to be a birth partner for his wife constitutes unreasonable behaviour though, Nooka. This is not a matter of blame, but where one person has willfully done (or not done here) something that has contributed to trauma for his wife, he needs to accept his part in that. He needs to be told and he needs to try to get to the bottom of why he dragged his heels where preparation for the birth was concerned. That was not supportive, and was very shortsighted and immature.

If Unwind posted here at about 8 months pregnant to say she was very frustrated and feeling unsupported because her H wouldn't attend antenatal classes and wouldn't read anything about childbirth, I would guess she would have received responses advising her to try to find a more supportive birth partner, outlining the things that could go wrong and why it's very important to have a well informed partner during childbirth -- the main reason being that you can't be sure you'll be able to speak for yourself and you need the partner to advocate, ask informed questions, and take care of you. Unwind thought her H was as invested in the baby and in her health and welfare as she was, and probably hoped and expected like almost everyone does that everything would go well and without complications and the birth would be a very positive experience for her and for her H. I think everyone has at the back of her mind that there's a chance things won't go well, but also the hope that someone else will draw the short straw of complications.

Maybe for that reason it didn't cross her mind that she should have chosen someone else to be with her in the hospital, but it's not her fault that her expectations of her H proved unfounded you hope for the best from your partner and from the medical staff and she was badly let down by both as the situation developed and her H's casual approach resulted in real anguish, real pain and real trauma for his wife. He threw the dice for his own reasons he was willing to throw that dice, and he lost here, and so did Unwind. Why did he take that chance? He should answer that question.

The whole point of the OP's post is that he did something astronomically wrong, Larrygrylls, in not having enough information to make the necessary calls at the time they were necessary. To say that apart from 'his lack of pre-birth support ... there does not really seem anything else he did wrong' is to spectacularly miss the point.

If Unwind could be happier with a loving H and baby, do you not think she would choose to be? Women who have managed to come home from the hospital in one piece with a healthy baby against all the odds do not willfully choose to be unhappy.

No amount of parental classes prepare you to over ule medical staff during an emergency when your child and wife are at risk.

He didnt let anyone down. She might feel let down, but that doesnt mean he let her down.

Absolutely mathanxiety - this IS the whole point, is that he wilfully had NO idea about ANY of it at all. At the time it is doubtful he could have overruled the medical team but he could at least have tried to advocate for his wife, not just given in to them through sheer bloody wilful ignorance.

I disagree completely, FL. You don't have to overrule the medical staff -- nobody can really do that. You should know enough, however, to ask them questions and know the difference between routine procedures in the hospital and something that is actually medically necessary. And if you knew your wife hasn't eaten for days, you would surely go and find her some food. This man went AWOL for the pregnancy and the birth. He didn't do the least thing he should have done.

Even my exH, who was a complete tit, knew enough to ask the right questions when I sat there in shock at my diagnosis and the thoughts of surgery, and he cared enough about my welfare at the time to save me from having an operation done by a method that had been out of date for years instead of the laparoscopy I eventually had.

If he didn't bother finding out basically anything about childbirth, a major event in his wife's life, then he let her down. Childbirth is possibly the biggest thing a woman will ever experience. Bigger and more momentous than her wedding day, bigger than tea with the Queen. It is a watershed in a woman's life, a transformative event in physical and spiritual and emotional senses, and he declined to be involved or to show he cared. He let her down by his lack of interest, and that's the reason she has felt this so strongly for so long. She is not irrational in her feelings here, as you suggest. They are not baseless.

Sorry but I absolutely agree with Footlong in this instance. It isn't the DH's fault. It also isn't the OP's fault. In this instance I would blame the nonsense that is the perfect birth scenario. Surely the ONLY thing that matters when giving birth is that your baby is delivered safely and healthily. Which is what the medical staff are trained to do.

I've read the whole of this thread, and personally I would put this down to a touch of PND and the OP projecting this onto the birth and her DH.

There are good births and bad births but surely the ONLY thing that should matter to the parents is that their child is fine. I think the OP should go back to her GP and ask for more counselling, but this time the counselling should focus on why she feels this way and try to address her issues. They are her issues, not her DH's/the medical staff's.

I've had 2 DDs. Both births were very fast, very painful and too fast for pain intervention apart from gas and air. In both instances my husband had nothing he could contribute and actually irritated the hell out of me. However, that was me and my hormones and NOT HIS FAULT. The medical staff were brusque and did what they think best. The births were miles away from what was in my birth plan etc but they delivered both my DDs safely and healthily which is all I wanted them to do. For me that made my birth experience positive not negative.

As footlong said: He didn't let anyone down. She might feel let down, but that doesnt mean he let her down.

I think people who have experienced birth trauma themselves, were let down by their husbands (in whatever capacity) and have come out the other end to tell their tale, are the people best able to advise on this thread.
People who have not experience birth trauma can guess what it might be like, people who have had a husband not acknowledge their feelings can speculate how it might feel, but unless they have experienced it themselves then a little modesty and humility does not go amiss when advising somebody on such a sensitive topic.

Bulls and china shops spring to mind

The husbands point of view is just as valid though. It must be very traumatic to have to watch your DP in such pain and feel so impotent. Footlong's posts are coming across to me that he feels his opinion is valid but he is getting shouty because he feels nobody is really listening to what he has to say.

I'm saying that as someone who was married to a controlling, manipulative shit who was useless and irritating both times when I was giving birth. But he was the father and although he didn't want to be there at all, he was there. There is no way he would have challenged the medical staff on anything. A lot of men wouldn't and tbh neither would I in this instance.

Unwind I've got a bit lost in the ins and outs of this thread, but I just wanted to stress that cbt is not an appropriate form of counselling for birth trauma, or any trauma in fact. Please go and see a specialized counsellor, or preferably a trained psychotherapist with experience in birth issues, there are professional bodies called the BACP & UKCP who accredit therapists, which should help you find someone 'legit'.

After my traumatic birth with dd2 I could not mentally function at all (although I was going through the motions of day to day life), I am now 17 months down the line & still not quite back to normal but therapy definately helped.

" It must be very traumatic to have to watch your DP in such pain and feel so impotent."

Maybe if he had done some reading and knew what was going on he wouldn't have felt so impotent.....

I think people who have experienced birth trauma themselves, were let down by their husbands (in whatever capacity) and have come out the other end to tell their tale, are the people best able to advise on this thread

In a shock twist Sakura decides she is the best person to give advice in this thread...

Yes the husband's view is valid, which is why the OP is at great pains to consider it, along with every other poster on here.

However

sometimes , women have the right to take stock and consider their own feelings, and put themselves first. THis phenomenonen doesn't happen very often, and when it does it often confuses people.

In my case, for example, I was in denial for a while about the fact that my husband had let me down and that I was angry at him. Only by acknowledging these feelings was I able to move on.

Maybe if he had done some reading and knew what was going on he wouldn't have felt so impotent.....

I am willing to bet he could have done all the birth classes his wife did and read all the books she did and not felt one iota less impotent during a medical emergency involving his baby and his wife where medical experts were required to make critical life balancing decisions.

You can't honestly think that reading a book or going to ante natal classes prepares a man for birth? It didn't prepare me even tbh, it gave me a good idea of what was going to happen but the reality was no where near what I expected.

TBH I don't think most posters on this thread and I are ever going to agree because my feelings are that the only thing that matters is a safe and healthy baby. I'd have jumped through flaming hoops if I had been told to do so.

He was not helpful at all about the epidural. For those on this thread who have not given birth, you need to know that giving birth is very primal. YOu go right back to the beast and all your instincts and senses awaken. IF yOur husband appears to side with the medical staff it can be very frightening when you're in that zone, because if he's your birth partner he's there to protect you, and isn't doing his job.

Disco, you're wrong there about "the only thing that matters is a healthy baby" Unfortunately that has been the mentality of the technocratic model for the latter part of the twentieth century

A healthy baby and a healthy mother are not mutually exclusive.
Today, we are much more aware of the effects of birth trauma on PND, and how ignoring the mother during childbirth can have a knock on effect on the baby, establishing breastfeeding etc.

I was lucky in that I chose a clinic that believed a healthy mother is as important as a healthy baby.

Some doctors see the birthing mother as an obstacle between them and their healthy baby, a kind of vessel. This goes to the essence of birth trauma.

Sakura,

It is always about sides with you.

The husband's perspective vs a woman putting herself first. Medical staff vs the woman?? A weird and damaged perspective.

Mostly, a couple giving birth is all about the mother, with the husband/partner giving as much support as he can. The medical staff are there to help the woman and baby.

Frequently, births are far from perfect and sometimes mistakes are made, but to view the whole thing as some kind of competition is just not healthy or conducive to a happy loving family.

Ignoring birth trauma is not conducive to a happy loving family.

Burying feelings of helplessnes and loss of control can have a knock on effect on the relationship. Perhaps not now, but at a later date

I realise it's difficult for some people to accept that sometimes women have separate needs and emotions to those of their spouse's

'And I know it wasn't really his fault.'

'I did not stand up for myself or for her - so why do I feel so bitter that he did not? We were both naive, we trusted the professionals, who were in positions of authority, we were first time parents and did not have confidence in ourselves in that role.'

The OP is totally aware that she is being unreasonable. I think what she is after is an explaination of why she feels like this, not an apportioning of blame.

I'm sorry, I don't think it is reasonable to blame a birth partner for not intervening with trained medical staff. I can totally understand her feelings of anger and bitterness, but I do think what she needs is counselling to address why she feels this way.

Labour wards are v busy, intense places. Quite simply there are hardly ever enough midwives available and the midwife attending the OP may well have been dealing with other, just as urgent and traumatised, mothers. They did their job and delivered her baby safely. The birth partner's job should be hand holding, the medical side is the staffs job. But birth is traumatic for the birth partner too, we are not used to seeing people in such pain or feeling so helpless. There is not a culture of seeing women in labour like there used to be (for women anyway) so we are woefully unprepared compared to our ancestors. If I gave birth again I would not want my DP there unless he really, really was desperate to be there, and even then I would probably appreciate it if he legged it half way.