DH's religion & children - should I just give up?

[WhyIsTheSkyBlue]

DH is a muslim (non-practising - or so I thought), I am an atheist. We have been married for seven years and are still very much in love.

DH has wanted children for a long time but I never felt quite ready in the past. However, I am now at a point where I would very much like to become a mum.

Although DH was initially delighted to hear this, he is now saying that we must get married in an islamic ceremony before having children. He says it would be wrong to have "illegitimate" children and wants any future kids of ours to be brought up as "proper" muslims.

I would be prepared to go through with something like this for his sake (it's not as though it would affect me legally). As a muslim, however, he can only marry another muslim, a christian or a jew - not an atheist. DH was apparently unaware of this until he enquired about the ceremony. He is now begging me to convert and seems to think that unless I start following one of these faiths (preferrably islam, of course) our marriage might not survive at all due to it being "sin".

(I should point out that DH really isn't that religious, i.e. doesn't fast, pray, eats non-halal meat, drinks occasionally, ...)

On the one hand I feel sorry for DH as this appears to be some sort of an identity crisis for him. On the other hand, however, I also feel very hurt and angry for myself and very much taken aback at the notion that as an "infidel" I should somehow be inferior material and not suitable as the mother of his children.

DH also seems to think that my (lack of) religious belief is some kind of a lifestyle choice, and that the only reason I don't believe in any sort of a deity is because I'm simply being stubborn.

I love DH very much (and I'm very confident that he feels the same way about me). However, I also do want to have children at some point in the not so distant future and I want a partner who accepts me with all my opinions and personal (non-)beliefs.

Is there any way this can end well or should I just give up on this relationship?

You can't possibly become religious just for a ceremony. That's nonsense. What would he really say if you said, "Ok, I'll be Jewish" How would he really react?

What do you mean by dh? You say as a muslim he can only marry a muslim, christian or jew. So he married an atheist. Does he refer to the muslim ceremony prior to having children?

I would never convert to any religion if i was an atheist. I worry for you that, should anything happen to the marriage, he will fight with you over the upbringing of any children.

Really difficult. Have you asked him to examine his apparant turnaround on faith?

Oh God, are you really sure he's the one? If people are very set, then religion is a major stumbling block. I would frankly be furious if my partner expected me to convert before they would marry me. I would not do it. I would just say 'That is not going to happen'. If they end it over that, it was never going to work anyway. But it might make him realise they were just being a bit silly.

What marriage ceremony did you have? Was it a civil service? If so, then he IBVU to make you try and adopt a faith. If you were married in a church then a bit more tricky as you (presumably) didn't follow your atheist view then.

I think he is being ridiculous to demand this now and would be feeling (if it were me) that the marriage itself has been a sham if he sees it as 'sin'

If however your marriage suffices for the two of you, then i cannot see how he can demand more for hypothetical children.

I agree with Perfumed that he needs to examine his change in views and not make you feel bad or 'change' for something he seems to have changed his mind over. Ludicrous

Your conversion would be a sham - which you know anyway.
It sounds like your DP, whilst not choosing to live a Muslim lifestyle, is still very much a Muslim.
Thus your marriage - whilst legal and acceptable to you, is not Islamic enough for him if you are to become parents.
I think you need to ponder this one very hard indeed before you have kids, as I don't think there is much room for him to compromise.
You need also to consider that any children you have will also be brought up in his faith as I doubt, from what you have said already, that he would be happy for them to be brought up without believing in God.

I mean by DH that we have been legally married seven year ago. In a completely non-religious manner at the local registry office.

And, no, I am absolutely not considering conversion. I may have expressed this in an unclear way. What I would be willing to do is go through with some sort of a religious ceremony in order to make him feel better. Since I'm not a believer this is not something that I feel would affect me at all. However, as stated above, this is not an option as he cannot marry an atheist anyway.

I have, of course, asked what makes this so important all of a sudden. I have also mentioned his drinking, poker playing and the fact that he was apparently okay with having pre-marital (in his new understanding) sex for ten years. DH is now claiming that this has always bothered him but that he pushed it aside because I'm otherwise all he has ever wanted.

As for him being the one: I definitely used to think he was. I'm now just in shock, TBH. It wouldn't have occurred to me in a million years that this might become an issue between us, ...

I'd be over the horizon already - mind you Iwould not marry a religious person, end of.
Given the inherent misogyny in all religions, do you want any DD you have brought up to think of herself as less than a man, obliged to cover her body and consider it shameful? Right now, does he want or expect you to start covering up and deferring to him? A lot of men who are nominally religious sometimes 'get' religion when they realise they can use it to demand their DWs modify their behaviour and accept their inferiority-as-decreed-by-Great-Pumpkin.

SGB, I completely agree. It's why I'm so completely taken aback. I used to think he was "muslim" the way I was "christian" before I officially renounced my church membership.

Don't understand husband any more. At all.

I'm really not sure if I should just end this now. There are compromises I can make but my identity is not one of the areas where I'm willing to relent.

Then again, I feel terrified at the thought of living alone in a bedsit, managing university and a stressful full-time job and not having him around any more, ever.

Tricky one.

DH is also lapsed, tbh doesn't even believe, we are not married though, so the issue never came up for me. We just pretended to be married in Egypt, and as unmarried couples living together are sooo not done, everyone believed us.

So you were married here in a civil ceremony. at the registry office? Ok so he wants only a ceremonial wedding... you could just go along with it, say what needs to be said, you are already bound by civil law anyway. Go through the motions and make sure your rights are protected elsewhere.

The christian infidel thing smarts, I know. It's actually the tip of the iceberg, but let sleeping dogs lie on that one In the eyes of islam, a non-muslim is not allowed to inherit from a muslim, so make sure you have a will drawn up to counter this.

as a muslim, it's part of his duty to ensure that his child is raised as a muslim (keeps the franchise going), and this would appear to be an identity crisis.

Add to that, if he were to ask advice all his mates would most likely tell him he has to do the right thing etc etc. But IME, many of them say an awful lot, but in reality it's the pole opposite.

You better discuss circumcision now tbh, cos if you are going to have a boy, that's another thing that they are pretty hot on.

You are not actually PG at the moment though? I have a feeling, as is always the case, that if you are to TTC when not islamically married, then there is a loophole that can be invoked, a get out phrase. DH told me about a phrase he can recite to overcome the supposed illigitimacy, "I accept you, you accept me" or something like that. I think that squares it (i am woefully ignorant, but my H is pretty well schooled in the religion, even if his belief is not what it once was.)

You could try the tack that you ARE married in legal terms, that Allah knows your intentions, and his appear to have been honourable in that you are married for years.

Discuss it all, now is the time. Before you start to TTC.

Hope you can resolve this.

Such a difficult one for you.
A few years ago I was friends with a group of people I met on a course, some of whom were Muslims - none of whom were living in an orthodox way, yet all of them intended to be good Muslims in the future, were going to have arranged marriages and become more devout. I saw one guy recently and in the intervening years he had split up with his girlfriend of 8 years (whom his parents had never known existed) and married a girl of their choosing.
I guess all you can do is keep talking and see if you can find any middle ground.
It doesn't sound to me that your DH is a bad guy or has meant to deceive you, but his faith/your lack of is a huge obstacle.
I went out with a lovely man for a couple of months (many years ago) but we split because he was a born again Christian and I wasn't - he came under a ton of pressure from his parents and church friends to stop seeing me.

But any children would not be illegitimate in the usual British way. The major thorn for me would be the kids being brought up Muslin, simply because it is so opposed to your beliefs.

Did he really never give an inkiling this would rear it's head? Are his family very religeous?

Sorry, Muslim

I agree with SGB. I know I don't know him, but I would suspect that he's realised, or knew all along, that getting you to go all religious could work out pretty comfy for him. If I was very cynical (which I am) I would say he may use the fact that you are now ready for children to hassle you towards accepting this new religiosity.

It might be that he is just in a bit of a panic about children in general, and thinking, 'argh, how is it done? - I know, traditional marriage first!).

Does he actually think you'll convert, or would he be happy with you going through the motions? It might be he feels the tradition (rather than the religion itself) is the important bit.

It is really natural for people to use what their parents and relatives did as a blueprint for big life events. He may just be doing this, even if subconsciously. You need to try and work out with him whether these are really signs that he won't ultimately be happy unless he's with a Muslim woman as the mother of his children, or - and it is possible - whether he's just got a sense of 'what's done' that he's automatically reverting towards.

Oh what a rotten situation for you.

I have to say, as a non-believer myself, that I would find it impossible to allow my children to be brought up under a religion that I don't buy into.

And then there are other issues, partly cultural I suppose - like what do you do if you have boys and your dh insists on circumcision. Or what about head scarves for girls?

Those issues would not be a problem at all if you were yourself a convert believer. But it doesn't sound from your posts like you would be in that place.

I very much agree re. the wanting to be like his parents thing and I'm also starting to suspect what fuschiagroan and SGB have mentioed may be true.

DH has been saying that he would want me to be a SAHM for at least a while once we have a baby, although I have always said this was not an option for me. He's also recently started to criticize my (not our!) housekeeping, saying that I'd need to shape up if I wanted to be a mother.

I've been wondering whether he may have made some new "friends" that are influencing him in this direction. Have tried snooping a little but so far to no avail (only result of interest being that one of his colleagues seems to have a massive crush on him ).

I seriously doubt that there has been malice aforethought here. I doubt he would have even given it a second thought.

Afterall he drinks, gambles and eats non-halal, he has sex pre marriage

Um ... he doesn't sound great, Why!

Have you actually told him that the way he's acting is ringing alarm bells for you? It might be worth doing so and seeing what his reaction is.

I think he's asking you a loy of you and I actually think he is being unreasonable.
He accepted you being an atheist when you met/married legally and now it comes to children you are not good enough.
How would he feel if you asked him to give up his religion completely before you had children?
As for not feeling comfortable about pre marital sex and the rest of it, I think it's hypocritical

As the child of a mixed religion marriage I'd be wary of having children with a man who had such different beliefs to me.

In my parents case it was different because my dad converted to quite a fundamentalist faith after they'd had children. I spent my whole childhood being torn between them and keeping secrets. Every time my mom went out I had to have a secret bible study with my dad and when it came to certain festivals at school me and my mom had to sneak about (e.g. making a 'harvest' basket or writing Christmas cards).

It took until I was teenager before I was able to tell them both to back off and let me follow my own way.

My brothers followed my dad, married into their faith and are bringing their kids up to follow their beliefs.

We have no shared celebrations and neither I nor my DDs have anything in common with my brothers and their families .

It must be so difficult for you to see your husband react like this but please think long and hard before having children with him.

Isn't religion wonderful, so unifying and encompassing.

LittleRedDragon, I have definitely told him what you mentioned, yes.

DH I used to know would discuss such issues with me and we'd usually find a compromise. Strange spawner of muslim babies who has lived with me for the last month or so is essentially saying that I should "take it or leave it". It's as though he's been a different person for the last few weeks.

DH is now "worried" about his potential future daughters turning into little tramps. When I asked if he thought I was a tramp he just responded this was "different".

He says he thinks our children will be like me as "the mother always has more influence". When I pointed out that this was definitely dependent on how involved a father was in bringing up his children, he suddenly started to argue it was "natural" for women to be the main carers. Not something he'd ever mentioned before. He used to be all in favour of equality between us, never had any issues with housework etc. (we both work full-time).

"Bring your kids up as Muslims" that should be a big no no.

If he is not big on his religion maybe you should ask him to convert to Christianity then it wont matter if your an atheist.

My (poor) advice is run like mad.

Religion screws up most things it touches.