DH's religion & children - should I just give up?

[WhyIsTheSkyBlue]

DH is a muslim (non-practising - or so I thought), I am an atheist. We have been married for seven years and are still very much in love.

DH has wanted children for a long time but I never felt quite ready in the past. However, I am now at a point where I would very much like to become a mum.

Although DH was initially delighted to hear this, he is now saying that we must get married in an islamic ceremony before having children. He says it would be wrong to have "illegitimate" children and wants any future kids of ours to be brought up as "proper" muslims.

I would be prepared to go through with something like this for his sake (it's not as though it would affect me legally). As a muslim, however, he can only marry another muslim, a christian or a jew - not an atheist. DH was apparently unaware of this until he enquired about the ceremony. He is now begging me to convert and seems to think that unless I start following one of these faiths (preferrably islam, of course) our marriage might not survive at all due to it being "sin".

(I should point out that DH really isn't that religious, i.e. doesn't fast, pray, eats non-halal meat, drinks occasionally, ...)

On the one hand I feel sorry for DH as this appears to be some sort of an identity crisis for him. On the other hand, however, I also feel very hurt and angry for myself and very much taken aback at the notion that as an "infidel" I should somehow be inferior material and not suitable as the mother of his children.

DH also seems to think that my (lack of) religious belief is some kind of a lifestyle choice, and that the only reason I don't believe in any sort of a deity is because I'm simply being stubborn.

I love DH very much (and I'm very confident that he feels the same way about me). However, I also do want to have children at some point in the not so distant future and I want a partner who accepts me with all my opinions and personal (non-)beliefs.

Is there any way this can end well or should I just give up on this relationship?

More food for thought

Will now have to be off and sleep for a while. Work tomorrow.

Thanks for the input, everyone, it is much appreciated. I'll have to think things over, I suppose, and try to discuss this with the strict believer formerly known as my non-practising husband. I'll definitely try to bring up some of the stuff that has been mentioned here.

Will keep you posted.

"DH is now "worried" about his potential future daughters turning into little tramps"

OOh the stuff I could tell you about the girls in Alex.... Apparently the new thing on the market is a fake hymen.. And the well known main activity of the gynos out there is hymen repair.

My H was there last summer, during Ramadan too, he had 22 different women bang on his door for sex, cos word had got out that I was away and his needs weren't being met He had 2 stalkers too, offering him their supposed cherry

They are most often much worse than us, they just are better at lying about it and appearing to be chaste. Men mostly view women as objects, they utterly expect it and act as objects. It's familial and societal gender abuse. Kind of Stockholm Syndrome. The men all get experience before they get married, how does that happen then, if the women don't do that kind of thing?

Tis all bollocks.

I lived with H for 6 years in London. This after meeting him when he'd been 16 years in the UK...It all went fine, he was open, supportive and helpful. until we had DS. Then, he was a hands off dad, but not much I could have done about that, totally useless tbh. DS and I got though it all. I should have called time on this way before then, but once you have a DC men like this think they have you where they need you and you are trapped.

When we went to live in his country, H changed, overnight. It was so marked, I even trotted out with the comment. 'What? are you showing off cos we have guests?' That comment was made the day after we arrived in his city.

It didn't get any better. Severe culture shock made him clamp down even harder. It was a living hell. Talk about groundhog day, i never left the house. At first because he wouldn't take us, then tbh, out of preference.

Honey, if he has taken a dramatic change like this before DC are on the scene, my best and most heart felt advice is to wrap this relationship up as quickly, as quietly and as politely as possible. IMV Awful E, it will not get any easier.

i adore my DS, I know H loves him too. But do I want his values, treatment of women, view on equality imposed on my son? No.

Talk it out, take a solid and considered stance, don't back down unless a point really isn't that important, and never ever compromise your financial security.

If you do all that and still can't get him to take a more reasoned and moderate view, then get out and consider this a lucky escape.

TBH it sounds like he is reverting to the standard muslim male type, it wont get better with kids and he will want to impose his muslim values on the kids which is to be avoided at all costs.

Why not say to him that you don't want to have DC with him unless he gives up his silly superstitions and agrees that your DC can be brought up rational (oh, and if you have DDs, that they can be brought up fully aware that they are human beings entitled to WOH, drink, have sex with anyone they want to have sex with and wear whatever they like? That is no more rude or unreasonable than him expecting you to start believing in his god and allowing him to consider you subhuman because you don't have a penis.

From what you've said so far, I'd be devastatedly planning my exit route by now.

Best of luck to you though, whichever direction you go in.

I think it is very strange that he considered it ok to marry you but now says he can only marry you properly if you convert. Has he not married you already?
You are already his partner/wife/spouse and he should treat you with more respect. I think you need to ask yourself if he ever respected you.
Are you not good enough to be the mother of his children?
I think you would be better of cutting your losses now.
I am muslim by the way, and he has treated you abominably.

Can you hear that noise?

Alarm bells are ringing.

I did this and whilst I wouldn't wish littlemad away I would do almost anything I could to save my family the heartache and cost of the legal battle we have been through in the last 4 years just to secure residency after exh told me if I didn't 'behave' I would never even see the baby once he was born.

I'm not tarring every man or every with faith with the same brush, just I kind of wish I'd listened a little more carefully to my alarm bells, I'd be doing a lot more talking before you make any lifechanging decisions.

Having children will most likely bring such a strong tide of religious restrictions you won't believe how it used to be you and a fairly easy going Muslim.

It will no longer be two evenly matched adults who can negotiate terms, but him and his family and the sheer strength of history and tradition.

I could be wrong of course, but I think his about-face is indication that post-children your values will be squashed.

If you do want to stay with him, first talk about the big stuff like circumcision etc before you are pregnant.

Oh Goodness, yes talk about that.

Also ask him if he expects boys to be circumsised at what age and where, who will actually go in to the op with your son because I can tell you it's not the most fun I ever had - neither was the aftercare. I made him wait until littlemad was 9 months old and it was a heartbreaking thing I had to do. I had to do it because Mr Macho decided that even though as far as he was concerned it was amatter of celebration and totally 'his thing' ie he was taking responsibility for it all including being with littlemad during the op, he backed out when it came to the crunch.

madascheese ah sorry sounds so tough.

Are things ok now? Did your family help you?

I think that if you start down this route, you will never be good enough. I agree with Riven and I would not bring children into your relationship.

Well you either want your children to be brought up Muslim or you don´t.

I don´t consider myself religious, but there is no way I could "renounce" the bit of Christianity I have in me for another faith.

Not even for a couple of hours for a ceremony.

And I certainly wouldn´t want my children brought up in any other faith.

So he know considers you unmarried, but hey, it´s been good enough for you to be treated in this way-but not any daughters you might have.

So, they would be worth much more than you.

I couldn´t be with him, sorry.

To be fair I'd always bow the Riv's greater knowledge and I do preface everything I say with I don't believe for one second exh behaves the way he does because of his religion but because he's an arse which he could easily be if he was a Christian.

My family have been and continue to be amazing despite the fact we became quite estranged during my marriage to exh. There was a good deal of emphasis on being a 'good wife' though no major pressure to convert and being a 'good wife' for him meant not being around influences who might help me see what he was doing.

It's taken me almost 4 years to find myself again. Not saying this will happen, but just that I wish I'd paid more attention to my alarm bells.

I do know some Jewish men (well one) who eats bacon, pork, no Synagogue who wanted to introduce the full cultural force of his religion post-children. His family played a huge part in this. It wasn't evident before hand.

Or maybe it was just naivety to expect it wouldn't happen.

I'm glad you made it Madascheese. Must have been hard.

Clovis, it really was, I'm not trying to say it will happen but if it feels wrong it's worth working through it properly. Good luck with your decisions and feel free to ask me any questions you want. I can't promise I'm an expert but I will promise to be completely honest with you.

What does his family say? Did they accept him marrying a non muslim? maybe he is feeling that he would like his children to have his family around him and thiks this is the only way of getting them back? Or maybe he's just scared of bringing up children and wants to replicate his own background. Either way, I think he's being totally hypocritical. My DH is an atheist, I am a very lapsed catholic. DH has said to me hat he wouldn't have married me if I was devoutly religious and, quite honestly, I don't think I would have married him if I was devoutly religious. He's changing the goalposts after the event. Just be thankful he hasn't waited until you are pregnant to tell you all this. I would say it may be an idea to get an imam to talk to him, but I don't kow what they would say! They may agree with him! It's easy to say, but i would also run for the hills and if you still love him and he you, see where his priorities are- with a religion thats meant nothing to him before or you.

This must be a nightmare for you.

You have spent a very long time with this man and now, suddenly, you are not good enough. And if you have daughters who are like you, they will not be good enough either.

I would take this as a sign that you can no longer be with him and be very thankful that you don't have children with him already.

Has he got his facts straight?

My DH is Muslim, very much how you describe your DH. When we married the Imam who performed our Nikkah ceremony was well aware I was not religious. He was still happy to 'accept' me and simply had a chat about religion and how one day he believed I would convert.

This was 10 years ago, 2 children later... I still haven't converted. The same Imam has performed both children's naming ceremony's and not put any pressure on me on me to convert.

Maybe your DH needs to find another mosque / Imam to advise him?

it seems a bit weird that he is suddenly saying that all this stuff is important, when it hasn't been for the last 7 years

I would have a major sit down with him to discuss his actual views on many things; what his expectations are.

For example, once you're married in a Muslim sense, will he expect you to wear a headscarf, attend mosque, participate in the festivals? What would he expect for,/from DCs? As others have said - will he want his DS circumcised, expect his daughter to wear a headscarf, arranged marriages for DCs - everything.

Then you need to decide whether or not you're going to stay together.

TBH, it is incredibly difficult if you're coming from such different starting points culturally/philosophically/religiously.

I bow to Riven's superior knowledge on this subject, so she can confirm this or otherwise: I seem to remember one of my male Muslim friends explaining that the woman's religion (or lack of) doesn't matter, as the man's religion is more important. Therefore Muslim women have to marry Muslim men, but Muslim men have more freedom, as long as the children are brought up as Muslims. Or the boys, at least. May be worth thinking about if you were to have a daughter.
Also, depending on which country your DH's family originate from, and therefore which cultural practises predominate there, FGM may become an issue. Before I get flamed, I hasten to point out that FGM is not confined to any one religion, but is a cultural/traditional rite of passage for certain regions/countries/tribes.