DH's religion & children - should I just give up?

[WhyIsTheSkyBlue]

DH is a muslim (non-practising - or so I thought), I am an atheist. We have been married for seven years and are still very much in love.

DH has wanted children for a long time but I never felt quite ready in the past. However, I am now at a point where I would very much like to become a mum.

Although DH was initially delighted to hear this, he is now saying that we must get married in an islamic ceremony before having children. He says it would be wrong to have "illegitimate" children and wants any future kids of ours to be brought up as "proper" muslims.

I would be prepared to go through with something like this for his sake (it's not as though it would affect me legally). As a muslim, however, he can only marry another muslim, a christian or a jew - not an atheist. DH was apparently unaware of this until he enquired about the ceremony. He is now begging me to convert and seems to think that unless I start following one of these faiths (preferrably islam, of course) our marriage might not survive at all due to it being "sin".

(I should point out that DH really isn't that religious, i.e. doesn't fast, pray, eats non-halal meat, drinks occasionally, ...)

On the one hand I feel sorry for DH as this appears to be some sort of an identity crisis for him. On the other hand, however, I also feel very hurt and angry for myself and very much taken aback at the notion that as an "infidel" I should somehow be inferior material and not suitable as the mother of his children.

DH also seems to think that my (lack of) religious belief is some kind of a lifestyle choice, and that the only reason I don't believe in any sort of a deity is because I'm simply being stubborn.

I love DH very much (and I'm very confident that he feels the same way about me). However, I also do want to have children at some point in the not so distant future and I want a partner who accepts me with all my opinions and personal (non-)beliefs.

Is there any way this can end well or should I just give up on this relationship?

SurreyAmazon, re: your link. Just because that happened doesn't mean its recommended by the koran.

This isn't even about religion. This is him hearing a theory and thinking 'Hey, that sounds convenient! I can get her to do what I want, serve me and put herself second all in the name of 'belief''

All this 'your housekeeping skills need to shape if you're going to be a mother' and giving up work stuff is just emotional blackmail. He is banking on the fact that, now you want children, you will be too nervous to start all over again with someone new. He's trying to trap you by issuing all these ultimatums which must happen if you want babies.

There is no way you can have children with him, your life would go so shit.

OK, fair point, the Quran just calls for "grievous penalty" for apostasy. No compulsion there then, no sirree. I accept that it's the Hadith that calls explicitly for the death penalty for changing your mind about being muslim. I suppose it depends on which flavour of Islam you follow as to whether you believe those particular Hadith or not.

But that's an aside from the OP's situation. OP, I fear that what many here are saying is accurate - once you have children then your opinions and beliefs will likely count for very little. I'd think very carefully about your position. I think he's given you a very strong hint about where your relationship is heading.

TheHeathenofSuburbia,

The Q'uran is considered to be a collection of the revelations of God, (hence the worldwide outrage at the burning (actual or proposed) burning of Q'urans).

So with this in mind;

'According to the Divine word itself, war is the legitimate and holy means to bring men under the yoke of religion; for as soon as the infidels feel the arms of Islam and see their power humiliated, they will desire to enter into the the right way. However, before resorting to the extreme means, we must invite them to submit to the laws of Islam and warn them many times of the misfortunes they will bring upon themselves by their incredulity'

Source: Roots of Violence; A history of war in Chad.

Apologies again to the OP for not staying on topic.

The man is of course entitled to have changed his mind (from being unconcerned about superstition to suddenly taking to it with great enthusiasm). People do.
However, he's not entitled to start treating his wife like property on the grounds that his imaginary friend says he can. Whether he generally believes all the bullshit or whether he has decided that it would be useful to start claiming he does (and probably picking and choosing which bits of it to 'believe' ie a big Yes to all the woman-hating, Man is Head of Household shit and a big Well, Maybe, but I'm a Modern Muslim reaction to all the bits that might interfere with his fun, like booze or bacon sandwiches or going clubbing) is not really relevant. He's told you he wants you to reduce yourself to the status of servant and breeding animal. I'd see a solicitor if I were you.

Applauds. Loudly.

get out while you still can,this is not gonna end well

a great post SGB

I reckon he might not have regarded the two of you as married....

The mum of one of my sons former classmates was married to an asian man. The moment his family found a wife for him, he filed for divorce and went through with the arranged marriage. His family did not acknowledge he was married, and a father.... She was Catholic, and now finds herself a single divorced mum. He did not regard himself Married.

I am a Christian. My husband was Catholic, but has now become an Atheist. We have a compromise where we do not talk about Religion at home. It is such a big and important topic we will just "let nature take its course" with our sons, and they will decide for themselves, it is not something we want to influence. Sometimes I go to Church (I am on the Church Councile) and I have only once had to take the kids with me (I was on Church warden rota and he was away for the weekend so could not be with the kids). But we do agree that the local Church does a lot of good in the community, and we sometimes go around for the "non religious events."

We would have big problems if we were not so "flexible" in regards the other persons belief.

Your husband is now suddenly moving away from all the beliefs you have thought he held, and which has held you together. Him a lapsed muslim and you an atheist. He has not only found religion for himself, he wants you to move away from everything you believe and fall in with his new found religion, AND he wants your future children be raised in this way too.

I would not stand for having my children raised atheist, in the same way as my husband would not bear for our children to be brought up Christian. The only way we resolve this between us, is to not actively involve the children in any religion. Not until they are old enough to make up their minds. Daddy talks about Darwin and Science, and we are carefull to explain about all different belief systems like "Some people, like mummy, believe in Life after Death, and some belive you just rot and your atoms unify with the earth". It might not be perfect, but it works for us.

I also think that his family will have a big say in your family life once you have gone through with an Actual marriage, and you have children.

What is your relationship with your inlaws now? Do they regard you as married at all? Are you referred to as his wife?

All these posts really bring it home how big cultural differences can be....i'd never even thought about OPs DHs family not regarding them as being married....it's really a huge decision.Obviously if they are legally married she does have rights,but may find herself sidelined by DH and his extended family if she has children and chooses not to convert........my gut instinct is to leave now and start all over....and i can only imagine how hard this would be,especially as she does love DH..

I really feel for you that this has happened. Obviously you have been together for a long time and felt you knew your DH.

I agree with others who say you should definitely not have children with this man.

QS - fascinating post which describes how adults run this stuff successfuly IRL.

This section is vital and I have bolded the bit that leaps out at me. It's the bit about being free to believe:

"I would not stand for having my children raised atheist, in the same way as my husband would not bear for our children to be brought up Christian. The only way we resolve this between us, is to not actively involve the children in any religion. Not until they are old enough to make up their minds. Daddy talks about Darwin and Science, and we are carefull to explain about all different belief systems like "Some people, like mummy, believe in Life after Death, and some belive you just rot and your atoms unify with the earth". It might not be perfect, but it works for us."

I don't think OP's DH is within a country mile of this unfortunately.

My experience is that culture /religious beliefs often, but not always, become stronger as time goes on and children arrive. Nothing like a becoming a parent to bring out the inner monoculture in people.

It happens in all cultures and faiths. My dh was chilled but I started going along with more and more requests. You think it's no big issue (and it wasn't to me at the time) - it means so much to him - keep his family happy - it's no skin off my nose etc. But you can wake up one day realising that you are there merely to enhance their lives and your values and hopes remain unrecognised. It gets increasingly difficult to ringfence your values.

dh agreed that our children would chose their own path and they would only be baptised if they showed willing at some point in the future. 4years on ds isn't baptised but it's been a struggle and one I could have done without as a new mother in the face of sulks, threats, manipulation.

DH is now controlling and manipulative. I tried to respect his family and their faith but it hasn't been reciprocated and if I want a voice I have to battle for it.

We muddle through but dh is as resentful of my 'non compliance' as I am of his unwillingness to view me than little more than childcare.

Tune into your instincts on this. The OP sounds like he's presenting you with your future. If it's up for negotiation then negotiate but this isn't looking good. It's unfair when you got together based on your shared outlook on life. But people do change.

But this is not always the inevitable outcome. My parents are of different religions and it was never an issue. No struggle for cultural or religious views at all.

I feel for you as you sound like you viewed your dh as your absolute soul mate up until this point. If it's an identity crisis, well, it's his crisis - he shouldn't make it yours.

As with most religions, it no longer matters what the Holy Book says- whether it is the Quran or the Bible. It is the interpretation given to the words by the (almost exclusively) male leaders that matters to people and affects their lives. If the Imams say that the Quran says people should be punished for leaving Islam and all the other things that are contained in Sharia law that we find unpalatable, then that is the way it is. No ordinary person will be able to argue against them using the Quran, because it will have no effect. Particularly if they are a woman IMO.

Also, dont have children with him just because you want to have children. It is a very strong force, but you will find someone to have children with who respects you and will treat you as an equal. The pain of having your children brough up in a way that is comletely alien to you, or even worse, at risk that they will be taken from you if the marriage breaks down, which it is likely to do if your DH continues on this path will be much, much harder to bear. You and your children will be his and his family's property.

This would ring alarm bells in my head and I dont think I would have children with someone who had these opinions.

Despite your obvious desire for children I would tread very carefully here

What are your PILs like, out of interest?

I don't think people in shaky relationships of any description should have kids - it only multiplies the inevitable heartbreak.

I think you are very lucky that you do not have children yet - move on and have them with someone who shares your values.

But it's not stipulated op's children would be 'taken away' from her

Lots of men threaten this - not so easy in real life as there are laws.

^Please please rethink this. IME it will just get worse once kids arrive. You will be at loggerheads about everything in no time at all.

His new-found faith changes everything and he is no longer the man you married.^

Jux has summed up my thoughts precisely. I say that as a woman in an interracial marriage (disclaimer: I don't particularly like that term and would never use it in everyday life). Thankfully, my husband is as much of an atheist as I am, but if he suddenly "found" the religion he was born into, and insisted that our future children be raised within that religion, it would be a deal breaker for me.

The other thing is that if, as slowshow mentions, the husband imposes his religion and it is a dealbreaker, after a divorce that child will still be a part of the religious family. So you may leave but it would mean less control over their religious instruction.

It is possible to be in multi-faith marriages but not to get your own way all the time, nor he the same. You have to compromise a lot, over things which matter to them, and equally they have to compromise with you. It does not sound like this is likely to happen.

My husband (not a Muslim) asked me to convert to his type of religion so we could get married in church (they also don't recognise atheists/non-religious people in their church). I said no, and explained it would be like asking him to give up his faith and say things he didn't believe in. Once he understood this, he dropped it. But I have compromised over things like baptism of the childrem (very important to him) and I certainly made a big deal out of important festivals and participate in the cultural stuff like cooking certain dishes.

I do know Muslim/non-Muslim marriages that work, my friend certainly didn't convert when she married, however, she is prepared to do things that are important to him like learning Arabic, having the children brought up as Muslims and circumcision for sons. If you are really not prepared to do any of these things, and he is getting more hard-line about your role in the house, unless you want that life, you don't have much choice except to leave (as he won't have children with you anyway).