Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super.

I'm angry, can't you tell?

Fuck knows, Mal.

I agree with AF, it's likely the thrill of the online stuff would have passed and he would have upped things a notch. Maybe to a physical meet/whatever. If you do continue then I think forums/fb/msn/all porn need to be banned altogether - that way at least if you do find anything again then you will know that he has deliberately deceived you and make your decision based on that.

I know frog The worst was when he said "there was nothing stopping me"

The thought that being married could not stop him, and that he needed some sort of outer conscience to make him not do it is repulsive to me.

Pfft, I'm sorry to read what has happened and appreciate that this has come as a shock to you. I know that you seek support by posting here in ?Relationships? (as opposed to AIBU) but I feel an element of balance might be required, if only to explore this problem a little more.

Your trust of this man has been damaged ? granted. But, whilst he has foolishly allowed himself to be swept along with a textual relationship (and all the novelty, excitement and apparent intensity that comes with this medium), you say yourself that he has not met this woman.

Is this enough for you to walk away from your marriage? Are there other problems (as yet, unmentioned) that might explain your apparent willingness to end things here. Of course, you are spinning this in such a way as to make it appear that any damage to your marriage is solely his fault (and other posters on here are blindly supporting you in this, egging you on and gleefully gaining a vicarious enjoyment of the spectacle ? all the while safe in the knowledge that they?ll not be the ones having to explain to your children why Mummy and Daddy are splitting up)?But let?s get real ? if you decide to end your marriage as a result of this, that will be your decision?not your husband?s.

He has f*cked up massively, of course he has. But please try to take time out and think of the bigger picture ? the anger will subside in time. Run it past your Mother ? or his?I suspect the older generation would be slightly more forgiving of such errant ways. Divorce is bloody awful and yes, I speak from having experienced my own parents? divorce from hell when I was a teenager.

You have most of the cards here. Yours is a big decision to make. But let?s not pretend that if the marriage ends over this that there weren?t other things going wrong that hadn?t been confronted up until now.

All the best ?I hope you both manage to sort this out.

"there was nothing stopping him"

then nothing will stop him doing it again in the future, particularly if you sweep this under the carpet and hope for the best

in fact, you will be effectively giving him a green light...

BA...vicarious enjoyment ??? that is a fucked-up and offensive statment you make there

Barmy, thank you for your post. I think that your assessment of those on the thread is harsh. It is good to hear another view though. I don't think that there has been any gleeful egging, but of course, this is an emotional topic. There has been a lot of marvellous advice from some great posters. And lets not undervalue simple empathy.

Yes, this is my POV. It works for me to be the wounded party here. But really, I need somewhere to be the wounded party. I need somewhere to air my thoughts before they are coming out of my mouth where they can't be taken back. And that is what I have received here. Good, advice. Of course some of it is coloured by the experiences of others, but what adive isn't?

We don't have any other problems that would be worth ending a marriage over. The worst it gets is when I chew him out for failing to pull his weight with the housework. And even that isn't bad enough to warrant an AIBU post. Maybe that says that we shoulnd't throw it away. Maybe it says that he was even stupider than he could have been

I posted in Relationships because it is appropriate. I do not question whether I am being unreasonable, as I have not done anything. I have made no decision to question. What would I ask? AIBU to be angry and hurt? Waste of time, no?

and this
But let?s not pretend that if the marriage ends over this that there weren?t other things going wrong that hadn?t been confronted up until now.

What do you mean by this?

Barmy - you talk to me as if you somehow know me and my marriage. If you do, then your approach is ALL WRONG. And if you do not, well then...what are you on?

What do you mean by things that were going wrong? Why are you implying in your message that I am hiding something, pretending that I am all perfect and my husband is a shit?

I'm not surprised he's moved on Pfft. With thought, he has realised that minimising this isn't going to work, whereas sackcloth and ashes just might, added to a whole dose of self-pity. Perhaps he's thinking "I've ruined my life by my own stupdity" whereas the correct thinking is "I've ruined Pfft's life." Listen out for that...

I should have been more specific. I didn't mean for you to E mail her, I meant for you to phone her. E mails are just about the worst kind of communication for something like this. They allow the recipient thinking time and the option to ignore you. It doesn't sound like you'll get any truth from her, but it might still be worth the element of surprise with a phone call.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that he is saying he wouldn't have arranged a meeting or met her. But dig deep here and remember what I said about getting him to prove this. Unfortunately in these situations, he might even believe himself that he never would have progressed this, but very often it's a self-comforting delusion. I think it is especially so in his case, because he didn't back out even when the shit had allegedly hit the fan with her H. He urged her to continue.

You can tell how detached he is from the reality of your marriage by his responses to your porn discoveries. You believe he must have known that swinging wasn't something you'd entertain and so this makes you even more aghast at how poles apart you are in your thinking. I suspect this was a lie on his part though, Pfft and as is often the case in these situations, the lies that people tell portray them in a worse light and cause more damage. This one has made you think "He really doesn't know me at all..."

I expect he was on swingers sites for his own use, not yours as a couple in 10-20 years time..

I also believe that porn desensitises and allows barriers to be broken all the time. You have uncovered excessive use and I would guess the origins of your problem lie in this.

I would treat this as no different to a physical infidelity, because I think that would have happened, given the opportunity.
However, do question your view that this would be a clearer decision if physical infidelity had occurred. It isn't always so and only you can make a judgement about how much change is needed for you to try again.

Infidelity of any kind never happens in a vaccuum and it is all about the person doing it, so try to make some decisions in the coming weeks and months about whether he is capable of enormous change.

BA, I have come to the conclusion you are a little bit thick

What you don't seem to understand is that no-one is telling OP on this (and other threads) what they should do

What is being voiced is all the thoughts that are already occurring in the OP's mind. heaing them validated helps you to make up your mind clearly

cries of "he is a dick" doesn't make him a dick in the OP's eyes, she knew that already

voicing concern that he will do this again...do you think that didn't occur to her ?

agreeing that his use of porn, and it's escalation to more worrying behaviours is not "over-egging", it is a simple statement of fact. You don't need to be outrage on the OP's behalf...she is getting support form this thread. If she wasn't, she sounds quite articulate enough to say so...

so, you are either a little bit thick/patronising about what constitutes empathy/sympathy (possibly), posting from a situation where you think all MN-users are man-haters (they are not), or you just don't understand the way women tick (very, very likely)

Barmy, what do you suggest posters do, other than offer the OP support, relate their own experiences or offer advice from their own perspectives? If I tell the OP that my ExH did something similar, do you actually think I am gleefully egging her on to do anything?

You seem to think that you roam the lawless plains of Relationships, sticking up for wronged men and offering a balanced view. I have to tell you that balanced is not the word I would use.

I don't want this thread to be derailed by another spat between posters, but I have a different angle to yours BA.

I'm not sure what you allude to, when you imply other things may have been going wrong here. I sincerely hope you are not hinting that these things only happen in a flawed marriage and point to Pfft's H's dissatisfaction within it, because that is a hugely flawed concept.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you mean that Pfft may have been overlooking and bargaining away faults in her H (porn use and laziness has been cited by her), because of her belief that he would never be unfaithful? If so, then yes, that happens a lot in marriages. One of the things that Pfft will have to do if she is to start a path of forgiveness is to have a zero tolerance approach to other marriage-reducing behaviours.

As for approaching older relatives who will have a more pragmatic view of this, if I had turned to some of mine when my H was unfaithful, I would have got a hackneyed response about "you can't blame a man if a woman offers it on a plate" which would have been hugely unhelpful and totally wrong for my situation. Only Pfft can tell us if her relatives are more enlightened about individuals' true responsibilities.

Pfft - thanks for your post. My final remark - "let?s not pretend that if the marriage ends over this that there weren?t other things going wrong that hadn?t been confronted up until now" ? was meant to convey my feeling that no-one gets divorced over text messages and emails alone and that if such a drastic outcome were to ensue, there would have to be an underlying cause, the discovery of the textual chat being merely a symptom thereof.

As I say, my interpretation of the contributions here is that some of them have been a tad harsh ? you are entitled to write abusive things about your husband because of the hurt he has caused you but no-one else is, surely?

People have described the man to whom you are married as, ?arse?, ?loser?, ?nobber?, ?prize twat?, ?pathetic liar?, ?sleazy?.

Is this support? Is it empathy? Does it not actually belittle you and the choices you have made ? this is your husband that these women are talking about?!

AF ? no doubt.

WhenwillIfeelnormal - yes, the second interpretation more accurately sums up my view.

Oh, is BA a wronged man with an axe to grind? Well that makes things a little clearer. Not quite so offended at the accusation that I would be the one breaking up the marriage after all.

WWIFN - can you tell me HOW he can prove that he did not intend to meet her?

Pfft this is a truly awful situation and I feel for you.

I can only say that the answer may lie in how well you know yourself. Do you think you could really put it behind you? Are you that forgiving? I think it takes a certain kind of person to be able to genuinely move forward wholeheartedly from something like this.

I know I couldnt. It would eat away at me like acid.

I wish you all the best, whatever the outcome is.

Pfft - wronged? How? Not at all.

Barmy - see it seems to me that you are saying that the "event" - the texts, the sex online, is simply symptomatic of problems in the relationship.

When I read those things about him....I read that they don't know him personally. So those words, they mean them as an attack against what he has done. Of course, on here, he is one dimensional. He is how I paint him. But then, that is the case for anyone who is posted about in such a manner online. And this is MY place to get support. Yes, it can help to hear both sides, but primarily, this is about me. Because, lets face it, his actions have been about him. And now I need someone to talk to.

I don't believe that he is those things. But I think that a one dimensional man who had done what he has done is those things. And that is who he is on here. Fortunately,I have a brain and can separate out my wrath for him online with who he is in real life. The anger of people on my behalf helps, because it helps me see that this is not my fault. Which is is not.

I think it is unfair to say that if the marriage breaks down it will be because of other issues - I have only just discovered the excessive porn use. He isn't lazy. We argue over housework like plenty of other couples. To claim that this has been a problem for ages and should have been dealt with is just not true.

It seemed that way from how you were talking to me. Telling me that I would be ending the marriage, not him. Telling me that I should talk to older women who would tell me to put up with all sorts of shit to keep my husband. It came across like that. Like you had been on the other end to me and were unahppy with the outcome.

I completely welcome a POV from the other perspective. But you are slightly accusational and rather patronising.

pfft I really hope you don't feel there is a general sense of you needing to justify yourself right now here as a whole I mean. Right now this is your safe place to sort your head out so that whatever happens you can face r/l with a little more clarity.

It can be hugely helpful when dealing with a huge shock you rightly want to protect your children from to have an 'anonymous' place to sort things through and I'm sure none of us feel we have the right to judge you (and that includes the perhaps slightly less than supportive posts) as the one thing we can all say for certain we haven't done is walk a mile in your shoes.

It's not my intention to get into a barney with any other posters on the thread but I would hope that people might consider where you are in this process (given you posted about this for the first time 24 hours ago) and realise that although you sound really strong and together this must have been the most massive shock for you.

Thinking of you

Magic Dragon - horrible situation. Be very careful who you share any details with as unfortunately some people do seem to get some kind of vicarious pleasure out of the drama attached to this type of situation and start peddling their own agenda while whipping up even more outrage and indignation.

Some people (not necessarily on here) are so bored that they really do like to get off on other people's misfortunes. Do not allow insult to be added on top of injury by allowing other people to 'get off' on this. It is insulting to you.

Vent out your ager ONLY to those who you really trust. I would suggest taking back some power in the situation by asking your partner to move out of your bedroom, at the least, stating that you need some space and time to think and letting him know that unless he can give you a good reason to trust and respect him again, your relationship risks being irrevocably damaged.

I can tell you that I have been in situations where I have been very tempted but I am pretty sure that I would never do anything about it because I know that if I lost my partner's respect it would probably take another lifetime for me to regain it - and I don't want to risk it.

What madascheese said . It's not fair that you've had two barnies already on your thread, this should be your place. Quite right.

FWIW, if at any point you or any OP person (the person suffering I mean) wants to tell me to feck off as my opinion is not helping then I hope to take it on the chin. So if you do then I will

thank you tadpoles. He has gone away for the week. He slept on the sofa last night. He would not have considered anything else.

I can handle a barny or two. But no more, do you all hear?!

My conclusion to this is that this is a symptom of a problem in your husband's character, Pfft - not a problem in you and certainly not connected to his satisfaction levels within your marriage. But one of the many things you might want to ponder on when more reflection permits (let's not forget, you are still in shock FFS) is that you may have been minimising what were marriage-reducing behaviours before all of this, because of your absolute belief that he wouldn't be unfaithful.

You mentioned him not pulling his weight with the housework, but still baulk from calling him lazy. You have been benign up to now about his porn use. All of these things need challenging and may have led him to the point where he can say things like "I was allowed to do that....I should be able to say these things to another woman." Those statements are all about entitlement.

I have said it before on these threads, one of the myths about infidelity is that it arises when the unfaithful partner wasn't getting enough of something, when the truth is very often that they were in fact the over-benefitted one and in fact they weren't giving enough to the primary relationship.

How can he prove a negative? Well, if he kept any texts or E mails from him stating that he never wanted to meet her, that would be a start. If she were able to corroborate this too, it might help. Otherwise, I'm afraid he can't. But he should be willing to really examine his beliefs and it might help if you can paint a few scenarios here and ask him to think honestly about what he would have done, if this had rumbled on undiscovered.

Let's say the OW wanted to meet and communicated that she would be in his general area overnight? If she told him exactly what she wanted to do and promised sex that lived up to porn fantasies? What if she was paying for the hotel, so there would be no unexplained expenditure? What if she promised that this would be no-strings sex and there would be no demands on him? And what if you wouldn't have been suspicious in the least about a night away from home, or a day-time assignation when he was meant to be at work? What if the chances of discovery were virtually non-existent, what would he have done, bearing in mind the level of sexual excitement he was getting from this?

His gut response would be to say "No, I couldn't have met her" but ask him to think about this and challenge his beliefs.

You are always right, WWIFN.

The conversations about not wanting to meet happened on MSN. And i have looked into getting the logs but have read that they are only saved if you request they be saved.

I have seen all the -e-mails - of course, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that there were some that have been deleted. BUT I have seen mails in the trash (the "we've been found out" mail) and having seen the others, there is no missing thread of conversation, if you see what I mean.

I will be back