Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super.

I'm angry, can't you tell?

Carring on as normal and not telling people is the way for him just to slip back in and for you to agree out of sheer exhaustion. Its so easy just to sag into the old ways.

I have no idea sadly re the legal bits. DO we have a Legal Harridan? Or should a new thread be put in legal perhaps?

This is what I said to him - not telling anyone makes it easier for him to pretend that its not as bad as it actually is.

To be fair to him (not that I want to) he did strenuously deny that this was the case and that he was not under any delusions that this would all blow over, that I would give in, that anything was in any way better. He has since called someone and been talking for a while.

Mouseface - I don't think that there is a sudden turn around, but from what I have read on his messages, he feels that he has to hope that it will work out, that he can make it better.

Remember what I said upthread, that he has the main thing he wants now (being back in the rosy family home, reputation intact, no real fall-out for him)

His actions are what will tell you what you need to know now.

What has he actually done re. putting things right. Examine that. Make him examine that...because the work that is needed has to come from him.

If he really doesn't understand that concept, and he is hoping with time to fall back into old, comfortable ways without any redress, then I don't hold out much hope for you.

Pfft, I am not around for the weekend, but I will be thinking of you and looking out for you upon my return x

Right, Grounds for divorce.

Doesn't matter what you put on the bit of paper quite frankly, it's very rare that divorce is not granted.

In unusual cases where someone contests the reason but still wants a divorce the court doesn't care to be honest (Guess who's exh contensted the reasons!)

Unreasonable behaviour is anything you do no reasonably feel you can live with.

You'll be fine

Also strongly agree with AF re changes and actions above

I didn't tell people because a) it was embarrassing (sad bastard porn sites etc much like yours) and b) I wanted to make it work on some level and knew how awkward it would be for friends and family knowing all the sordid details if we stayed together.

If you are thinking of trying again, just tell the ones you think can help you and behave decently afterwards. If you're veering towards single life, tell whoever you need to get support and feck the consequences.

I'm sure you have grounds on basis of unreasonable behaviour even though there was no actual contact. The solicitor I spoke with said I had grounds and there was no phone/internet sex, only a friendship/emotional affair. But that was enough.

If you spoke with a solicitor (and mine chatted over the phone without needing an appointment/payment) and told your H it might reinforce what you are telling him about how serious this is. BTW I did an internet search and found a big but local firm of solicitors - it was not that I had buit up a relationship with htem, I was cold calling and they still gave me 15 minutes to talk through my situation.

Did you get a satisfactory response to your questionning of the swingers search?

I like your Do Things frame of mind!! What are you planning for your weekend away? Walking, cycling, striding on the beach, art galleries, shopping? I've always fancied visiting Port Merion (sp?)!

Shame my DH is away that weekend or I'd offer to meet you somewhere for the day!!

Anyone else free next weekend?

Hi Pfft, just checking in to see how you are.

I'm trying to see this from all sides and wonder what behaviour and actions you were expecting at this stage? He has booked into a therapist and is saying that he doesn't think this will all blow over.

I wonder whether having read all the posts on here yesterday about it being better if he stays away, this has affected you, so that you are cross with yourself somehow for agreeing for him to come back too soon? That this has generated fears in you that he will think it's all going to blow over, when in reality there is nothing in his actions and demeanour that would suggest that?

I think you're going to have to trust your instincts on this one. If you feel that he is genuinely sorry and will do anything it takes to get to the bottom of his behaviour and atone for the hurt caused, then trust that.

That said, I do recall my H saying that it was a sobering experience when he first admitted it all to his counsellor, because up to that point, he hadn't told anyone other than me. He said that uttering the words to a third party injected a much-needed dose of reality. So you might find that it helps your H to face up to the enormity of this quicker if he does that, with someone. However, I'd advise him to choose carefully, because for all the pluses about support gained from people in RL knowing, you have read on here about all the downsides too, in terms of the judgements people make, or worse still, the minimising people do.

Just make sure in all this that the cartwheels you are going to ask him to perform are necessary for you, him or your relationship and that they won't cause unnecessary collateral damage to the DCs. That they aren't punitive for the sake of being punitive and that they will genuinely bring progress.

And before I am flamed about this, I really do sympathise with this to a huge extent. About 5 weeks in, I heard my H laughing at something on the TV and was incandescent with rage - it just tipped me over the edge. I had to stop myself from packing his bags there and then, but we got past it and he understood why this had angered so much.

I also forgot to mention on all those posts yesterday that shortly after discovery, I went on a planned break with some friends and although at the time, I didn't want to go because I was feeling so rubbish, it did do me a lot of good to have an uncomplicated laugh. Because I'd always done this on a regular basis though and my H was used to looking after the DCs on his own and managing the house, it didn't bring any new realisations about what's involved with looking after DCs, but it did give my H a renewed opportunity to imagine life without seeing me every day.

Don't feel pressurised to do anything. Follow your instincts and try to build in a bit of reflection time if you're tempted to make an angry grand gesture.

I'm not sure, misty. I've not been in the best of moods today. Just something by myself. Sleeping, walking, somewhere windy.

Tippy, I see what you are saying. I understand that. BUT what annoyed me was that he had told a couple of people but not told them everything. And I said that it wasn't on.

As it turns out, it made no difference. He has phoned a few friends this afternoon and told them everything. They have sent suportive messages to him along the lines of "you are not a bad person" "we all make mistakes" and "I am sure it will work out". He did reply saying "as much as it is nice to hear the words, it doesn't make them true"

loves how do you start off a situation like that with the solictors? Do you ask for a short consultation on whether you can get divorced?

AF I hope you have a good weekend. Currently I don't actively want to be married to him. If we had no attachments - house, children etc, I would leave and just leave it all behind. The alternative is less appealing to me. Even though I can't find the motivation to try again, I want less to be a single parent. SO I will think on that for a while.

He has a counselling appointment on Thursday. He has bought a book online (that Glass one). He is hardly using the computer and is transparent about what he does. He plays with the children and talks to them and has finally noticed how awesome DD is that it took so long.
His phone is usually at home, not in his pocket and he is getting a basic one this weekend with no email or any of that stuff.

loves2walk - you asked about the swingers stuff. I was satisfied with what he said, but not endlessly happy with it. I don't want to talk about it word for word but he admitted that he knew I would never be into that - he was initially interested generally but liked looking at the pictures.

WWIFN
Yes. I feel weak and pathetic for allowing him back into the house. I feel that the message this gives is "we will work it out". And that even though I have verbally affirmed that this is not the case, and he has said that he knows this, it still bothers me. I think that I am taking my worries and opinions and placing them onto him.

I see what you are saying about RL reactions. It is difficult because I felt that it was important that he tell some people because of the way that he is viewed. He is seen to be a good guy, loyal and trustworthy and people act in a certain way around him. I wanted him to have to tell them so that he didn't have this veneer of respectability up any more that he could relax into.
I suspect that they will support him. Even though they are all female, they were initially his friends. A supportive e-mail to me would be nice (I sent similar to one of them when they were going through a betrayal by their partner recently) rather than the texts to him but I suppose that doesn't really matter.
This is why I asked him not to tell his family. They wouldnt' be supportive, they would make comments. No matter what the outcome.

Your post has come at a great time. These are all the things I am thinking about at this point. I DO feel the need to punish him. He told me something about his workday today and I wanted to stab him in the face. (not literally) but did nearly tell him that he couldn't talk to me about stuff like that. I downgraded to an evil eye.

Well I am out at a friends house for takeaway and chat. She is a "cut the bollocks off" type woman so hopefully we will have a good chat and a laugh.

I don't want to rely on here for advice too much. But it's hard. My mother has been very supportive but her views are not in line with mine. She pondered on whther he had been victimised by someone pretending to be a woman online - some sort of predator. She did give me some good practical advice.

When I look at the children everything seems so much more clear cut. That I should try to make it work for them. Not that I should stay for them against my will, but that I should try everything to make us happy for them. Because I should. And while this might not be the response of someone without children, looking forward...I might regret leaving and not trying harder to give them a together-family. This makes me angry in itself because he didn't think of that. But I can't change that.

gawd that was a rambly post sorry

Pfft, while it's positive that he is showing a willingness to do necessary things, it's frustrating no doubt, even maddening, to have to explain what's needed to him and push him to do it -- telling the unvarnished truth to friends for instance.

The more he requires in the way of hints, the more raw you will feel, and the less he needs to be 'managed' the better you will feel. There will be days when you feel he is adding insult to injury. No harm in telling him it's not rocket science, and just to put himself in your shoes and ask himself what would he want from you in the circumstances. Don't assume he knows what you need, but you have a right to be frustrated and angry if he seems to be unable to put himself in your place, and to wonder if he really has a sense of what hurts you.

Pfft, just a very quick little post to say (again) what works for some people would not work for others.

Some of the advice you are getting is conflicting. Some of the opinions you are getting are sitting squarely within the way you thought you would act in this situation, however...

No-one could plan for this.

You have to find what is right for you. I dunno what that is. None of us know what that is. I suspect your thoughts are all over the place, atm and you don't know what is for the best.

Hang in there and see how things develop, armed with your intelligence, no-shit-Sherlock attitude and with some heads-ups from us not to accept anything less that you think your deserve.

Err, that wasn't a very litle post after all. I hope you have a useful and not-too-trying weekend x

than you think you deserve

Pfft, I have lurked around the thread for a while and want you to know how much I am feeling for your situation. I haven't read everything but there have been no rambly posts - only heartfelt ones and I think this is such a good place to explore things without having to deal with the ramifications of doing so in RL. Samaritans can be good for the same reason - a good volunteer lets you vent and helps you explore without you ever feeling beholden to them to acting in a certain way/course etc. It isn't just for the suicidal, and you might want to try something even more immediate than posting here but a private place to chat isn't always easy to find.

Anyway, don't feel the need to have made decisions quickly, don't bind yourself irrevocably to a course of action. Don't let up for a second believing you areentitled to better loving care than this. xxxx

pfft - with the solicitor, I phoned and asked if I could make an appointment with their family law specialist. The secretary agreed and we did that. Then I suddenley had cold feet so I asked if I could speak with the lawyer before confirming the appointment - it all seemed very scary - and so the solicitor came on the line and talked me through it. I then made the appointment to get more specific info, then cancelled a week later when there was no need. She sent me a very pleasant email after the cancellation so absol no pressure/concern about wasted time. It was Irwin Mitchell.

You said you were worried about relying on MN for advice - I would say you're sounding sure of yourself, well, as much as you can be and strong in your own views. Not swaying randomly or going along with people here, so I'm sure there's no harm in using your thread as a sounding board.

You sound quite down though. Being in the house together must be hard. In my situation, I wanted my H around (though he told me he felt like it was a stay of execution), because I needed evidence that he was taking it all seriously and changing in ways I'd asked him to. I think it was WWIFN who suggested to use the time to address other problems in the relationship, not only the deceit/affair. That was very sound advice as I felt during that post discovery phase my H was on alert to everything I said and really listening to me. He couldn't have done that if he hadn't been around at home.

Pfft, a bit of advice I was given years ago by an elderly lady was "If you don't know what to do, do nothing" ie don't make any decisions yet. Give yourself time and space and feel all your emotions IYSWIM.

If you want, go and see a solicitor and see how you will stand, it gave me the impetus to try and make the marriage work (having already been divorced once and not really wishing to repeat the experience), my DH knew I was going even though we had made the decision to try and rescue the marriage. And essentially my DH was a good man who was going through an extremely bad time with various things and really wasn't himself (filling up on the wrong fuel was how our counsellor described it and at some point he was going to breakdown ).

Be kind to yourself and treat yourself, I find new clothes, make up and hairdo lifts the spirits very well .

I think consulting a solicitor (especially of the free advice variety) is a very good move on two counts. It adds to your information and it also sends a very powerful message that this is serious and it is unreasonable behaviour and grounds for divorce.

The friends' reactions doesn't surprise me too much. There is always an instinct, if we feel that someone is doing a good job of self-flagellation, to say "but you're not a bad person". However a wise friend would have not tried to minimise this and would have offered more than just murmurs of support and sympathy. Interesting that none of these female friends contacted you and wonder if there is a link somewhere here, to his behaviour? I wonder whether these individuals are truly supportive of you and your marriage?

What he needs most is to talk to someone who will tell him in uncompromising terms that while he is a good person and much loved, his behaviour has been appalling and that they appreciate its seriousness and impact on you. Someone who loves you both and supports your marriage - this is truly important.

You have this thread and I echo that you are more than capable of working out what is advice that would work for you personally. Your Mum's reaction doesn't surprise me at all. She loves him too presumably and will have her Grandparent hat on. An older generation of women (and she could be my age for all I know and in her 40s!) sometimes minimises men's behaviour and that doesn't help.

What Math has said about reversing the roles (true empathy) is absolutely correct, but that might not come for some time. At the moment like yours, your H's head is all over the place and he might not be able to do that just yet. However, it is one of the most effective ways of gaining understanding and was something I did many, many times. On occasions, only when my H was able to put himself in my shoes, or those of the average person, could he understand certain issues.

I want to pick up on a couple of points that echo what Loves has said about taking this opportunity to address other issues in the marriage. More than a couple of times now, you have mentioned him not pulling his weight properly with housework and I saw your comment about his belated appreciation of your DD.

This is why this is a fresh opportunity to get the husband and father you really wanted and deserved. Things that you might have bargained away in the past cannot be quelled any longer. The point I always make about infidelity not happening in a vaccuum bears repetition - if he gets rid of those behaviours, you have a much better chance of a happier marriage and one that is affair-proofed.

WWIFN- this is what I said to him. He said " a good friend will support you" and I said " a good friend will tell you the truth"
My mother is early 50's.
I have been thinking about the other behaviours, I hate that this is what it has taken for him to listen to me. I talked to him the other night about how he didn't value my opinion. he listened and accepted. Before, he would have brushed me off. He admitted that he didn't spend enough time with the Dc's or do enough housewoek. Before he wouldn't have listened.

I have to go out now for my evening of fun. I shall check back tomorrow afternoon. Thank you all so much for this week, you have been awesome . Mad - I might take you up on that offer.

pfft you'd be so welcome,

It's very windy up here :)

I felt exactly that pfft - I absolutely hated the fact that it had taken the threat of DV for my H to listen finally and hear what I had been saying for ages. Infact that still angers me, there is no getting away from it.

I just think when someone is doing this 'stuff' they are in some other place, head-wise and maybe heart-wise. They are not themselves almost. Not excusing it at all, just desperately trying to understand how the lying is accommodated by the person??

like WWIFN said 'how did he give himself permssion?' I still don't have an explanation for that from my H - he just looks sad and shrugs his shoulders when I ask.

I really hope you have a great night tonight, enjoy your switch off and all the 'cut his bollocks off' chat!

That is a huge question, Loves -- how the lying is accommodated, and the other one is too, how dd he give himself permission?

I never got any answers to those two, or to the question of how he could have not just turned a deaf ear to previous pleas by me to stop the behaviour that was tearing us apart before the $hit hit the fan, but actually angrily told me to stop telling him what to do, mocking me when I was miserable, yet gone around with his tail between his legs, very subdued, almost cringing afterwards, falling over himself trying to be Mr Niceguy. What it told me was that he knew how horrible he had been before and had done it anyway; his efforts to redeem himself were a day late and a dollar short, another nail in the coffin.

I feel so angry to think that there are so many people out there that this has happened to!

People are shit, they really are.

My night was good, I had a good chat and a good laugh. My friend is lovely and she is very much of the opinion that like dogs, you cannot trust any man 100%. She has a lovely husband but her marriage is on her terms. I really respect her and she made me smile tonight. She did tell me to do what I needed to do, not what I thought I should do because of what other people think/

WRT his friends. Husband has 4 friends. 1 male, 3 female. They met at university, so know each other for 12 years. 1 is married, 1 in a relationship. The male is engaged and he is lovely. One of them I would say is "not a friend of the marriage" to use WWIFN's words. I do not and have not ever trusted her. We don't really mesh well, though we have never clashed. She is overly touchy and she annoys me.
DH wanted to go and staf with her after I kicked him out. I told him that if he thought that this was in any way appropriate then I would have to chop something off. She is the one who hs sent him the "you can work it out/you are a good person" messages.

Ah, so you think that this female friend, on hearing about his inappropriate texting to the OW, thought "Why couldn't it be ME?"

In which case yes, a totally inappropriate person to retreat to when you asked him to leave. You're evidently not a jealous woman who has a problem with opposite-sex friendships and can distinguish between those that are safe and unsafe. Trust your instincts Pfft. These "there, there" messages he's been getting from this friend, might be loaded with an agenda.

Glad you had a good night with your friend, but I don't agree with her about men. Women can be just as bad - the OW in this case was married after all.

Keep posting, we're with you every step of the way.