Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super.

I'm angry, can't you tell?

Utterly agree, the least you should have is a weekend away getting some rest and headspace.

I imagine you're knackered apart from anything else?

AF - he leaves work at 4 so is home for bedtime stuff generally. He baths the children, puts them to bed. Then he does dishes, makes lunchboxes and does other stuff that I might ask him to do. So while it is nothing that I can't do myself, it's nice to not have to do it all.

I could go away. It would have to be by myself though. My mother has 2 small children and a houseful and a job to take care of without adding me to the pile. Plus, with all that going on it would not be in any way relaxing! BUT also, if I were to go away for the weekend, we would not get any talking done. I will look into it though, maybe for next weekend I think. The time to myself without domestic stuff and other people would be good I think.

He seems very focussed. To be honest, he is acting exactly how I would hope he would act. Not that I would tell him such a thing. He is sad and repentant, tearful and sorry. He is focussed on what he wants to achieve with himself, and sure of what he wants with regard to me and him. He is happy to do whatever it takes, and whatever I want. He has taken everything that I have thrown at him and swallowed it all down. And it feels that he really means it.

Of course, this doesn't make anything better.

yes, it was just a suggestion, some time for yourself

perhaps further along the line ?

He is acting like you hoped he would ? Good, that is good. Very, very early stages though, isn't it.

Make sure the things he says match up with the things he does. If he has promised something all teary-eyed and hangdog...he has to do it too

I hope you are like me, and not easily swayed by the protestations of "I hate myself for what I have done", the tears, the self-flagellation

Be sure he is not sorry for himself alone. Self pity has no place here.

Thats a good idea AF - some time away may do the both of you the world of good

I don't see this as you living separately Pfft. You can still be coming to a decision while under one roof. While I agree that you might personally need some space on your own, for me the only way I could start making decisions was through a process of constant dialogue with my H, followed by some thinking time on my own. Luckily my DCs were both at school and so on my working from home days, or leave days, I had that space.

We didn't talk to our DCs about all this for some time either and they would have been old enough at the time to work out that the marriage was threatened if either my H or I had left the family home. But that was academic in my case. I wanted my H at home so that we could talk through the issues, especially after my H started his solo therapy.

Everyone's different in their approach to this and the family circumstances might differ, so I am not advocating my way as the right one. There were also some things I would have done differently, with hindsight.

I meant time away from him while he takes on the domestic duties

or did you mean together, foggy ?

Oh no, most definitely not together !

I meant will do both good seperately - give pfft space to think clearly without having to think about general every day stuff, cooking, cleaning, bathing DC's etc and will do him good to spend some time with DC's and maybe knock it into him just a little bit more of how much of a utter pillock he has been.

ah, yes

Pfft I also wanted to say to you - as a couple, get selfish with your time together, to talk.

I remember posting once on here that the horrible morning after I found that phone and the initial confrontation, every man-jack seemed to knock on the door or drop in. It was horrendous having all these interruptions. The DCs were still on school hols too, but by an amazing stroke of fortune, were invited out to the same place that afternoon, so we had a bit of time, but not enough.

With hindsight, I wish we had leaned more on friends and family to take the DCs out etc., even it it meant not giving those people any details. We ended up coping by talking after the DCs bedtime, which was quite late because of their age - and when we were often exhausted, too.

We also managed to get away for a weekend on our own, about 6 weeks after discovery. I don't have entirely happy memories of that trip for obvious reasons, but it did give us some rare uninterrupted time.

The other thing I wanted to say was that my H took the view that I was so devastated, he had to do everything in his power to make life easier for me. I remember thinking that simple things like shopping or cooking were so utterly banal and so I had no motivation for anything like that. So if I came in from work, I would find that every conceivable chore had been done, so that I didn't have to think about rubbish like that - and could concentrate on the DCs, my marriage and work.

If he'd been living away and I'd been left with all that, even if it had been my decision for him to leave, I think I would have resented it bitterly and the DCs would have suffered.

I think that is interesting, WWIFN

I have a completely opposite view on this specific aspect (staying together and carrying on in the same house)

of course, pfft will find her own way, one that suits her (that absolutely goes without saying actually...)

but in this, or a similar position, I would not want the harbinger of such destruction within miles of me

I would need my own space, away from the hangdawg expressions, and futile tears, to make my own mind up without the presence of the person who has hurt me the most

I guess a lot of it is about the punishment aspect though (searches inside own tiny, dark mind). Your husband, WWIFN, you say with hindsight had more than punished himself and quickly realised everything he had to lose.

I think in a lot of cases, that would not be instantaneous. Did your husband not even move out for a short time ? You never took any time away from him ?

Taking comfort from the one who has stabbed me in the back, by continuing to carry on all your old routines and not letting him feel the cold, nagging wind of being the "outsider" from the cosy family set-up that he so casually disrespected ???

It doesn't sit right with me, and wouldn't for some other people I think.

What is the big hurry about getting talking done, Pfft? You have barely had time to process any of this, and you are reeling from the shock of being hit by a train. You are basically strapped to a roller coaster right now, and your feelings on any given day will possibly change completely by the next. This will be the case for a while.

I feel you're putting pressure on yourself to get productive conversations accomplished. I hope you're going into these sessions knowing they can be completely open ended on your part, and knowing that you have the right to change your heart, express everything you feel. There's no right or wrong way to react to all of this. And the reacting can go on for years.

How about booking yourself in for a day or even a half day at a spa for some pampering, relaxing and personal care. Even a few hours to yourself with no decisions to be made or little things to take care of, while your thoughts and your feelings can roam where they will might be a good idea. Have your H take care of the DCs and do all the planning of dinner, etc., for the family that day. What you're going through now is an utterly lonely experience, and a little physical tlc might be welcome without having to turn to your H for a gentle touch. (Warning -- you may find yourself bawling your eyes out right there as your back is being rubbed; warn the masseuse... )

When it comes to counselling, I second the suggestion that you and your H go separately. What he did, he did himself.

Counselling won't 'fix' things in the sense of making it all go away. It will never go away. What lies ahead is the process of finding out by living through it, what your line in the sand is; you will know at some point whether you think you can go on or whether your gut is telling you to take a different direction.

The pain will not always be as sharp as it is today, but it will be there to some extent forever; this is a 'hairline crack' as commented earlier. Everything can be better, but never the same. It is like starting all over again, without the glow of first love to fuel you, with whatever there is in that bank to draw on and give you faith (in my case the bank was seriously in the red by the time the earthquake hit -- the first clear thought I had was that now I finally had the permission I had needed from 'the universe' to throw in the towel). I sense you feel there's life in it yet, and that communication has been reasonably healthy up to now. Just remember, you never have to draw a line under it, and it's all a long process, whether something like this happens or not. You have never 'arrived' in any relationship.

AF your post brings back many memories that still make me grind my teeth (the hangdog expression, the tears and the self pity, the one dinner exH managed to produce, the attempts he made to hold my hand, the invitation to slap him in the face as if that was all he thought he deserved.. gggaaaaaaagg) A little physical distance is a good thing. But time and headspace is what your really need. I personally wanted the DCs around, and taking care of them grounded me and gave structure to days and nights that would otherwise have been endless.

Yes AF I understand that and like so many things, would have thought that, before this happened to me.

I can remember very vividly the dialogue that went through my head in the days after discovery. It seems amazing with hindsight that I was able to process such thoughts, but I knew that he wouldn't have been the only one suffering punishment if he had moved out - the DCs would have suffered (and my DD was also just about to start secondary school), I would have suffered because I needed to talk to him and couldn't face doing really practical domestic stuff and so in effect, everyone would endure a punishment, not just him.

Also strangely enough, the desire to "punish" didn't kick in with me straight away and I've tried to challenge it when it has, because however understandable - and believe me I know I've been punitive at times - it often gets in the way of real understanding.

For me, once the DCs were back at school, I was in the lucky position of being selective about my work and being able to delegate jobs, so I had lots of time on my own for thinking.

I suppose in the final summary, my H didn't need the short, sharp shock element. He realised instantly the enormity of it all, and did offer to leave to give me space. In our case, because he felt that I was not making any decisions quickly, it mattered not whether he was there or not in terms of the final outcome, but his being there facilitated the very space I needed, because if I'd had to cope with the DCs, work and the house on my own at that time, I wouldn't have had the time to talk and think.

As someone that has attended counselling in the past, and fielded calls as a Samaritan, I cannot praise it enough, if only for its giving one space to unload one's thoughts and feelings, without the danger of anyone giving an opinion or trying to "help" through advice.

Whether your husband attends by himself or you go together, is dependent on the extent to which the two of you feel that this is "his" problem or "yours" (i.e. as a couple).

Is what happened a result of things in his life alone? Or your marriage together? I suspect the answer to that will itself only be discovered once the counselling has started.

Does he express himself better in writing or by talking? Some find that writing one another letters - and maybe reading them to each other, perhaps with a counsellor present - can be helpful. Again, it depends on how effective and/or comfortable you both are in communicating, either on paper or face-to-face.

Thinking of you both.

different things work for different people

And just to add, that if I had ever been in a situation whereby my H had not known what he wanted i.e. me, then I know I would have absolutely asked him to leave and get that taste of life on his own. I always recommend that to people on here too.

Ah yes Math. I agree that this is a long old process and nothing is likely to be concluded for some time yet. There should be absolutely no pressure to accomplish or decide.

WWIFN.

I agree. Where there is any ambivalence in the cheater, he/she must be removed from the situation ie. the cosy family set-up (IMO).

I dunno about when it is more clear cut, like in your case...

I think I must be a punisher. Yes, I definitely am.

I hope pfft is using these musings to gain some clarity in her own thoughts.

AF - yes, you definitely are.

Yes, Barmy, it is healthy to have a degree of insight into yourself, it is a good thing

I agree.

AF - I'm with you on this. I was the punisher. I could not share my space after the affair.

I felt sick and would often be sick if he came back to the house for any belongings.

It took a long time for that to stop and for me to let him back into my life.

For the worse, as it happens.

, mf

Thank you all, your musings have been very useful. They give me ideas on what to think about.

AF - there is a punisher aspect to me, though I try to rein it in. The shock of being away for 2 days after discovery, though short was very sharp for him. He stayed with a friend for 1 night but I told him that he shouldn't be, so he went to a hostel. I think it did him good to be totally by himself and miserable. I was happy to hear that he was sad and missed us all. TBH (and I am being honest) I was glad to think if me, at home in the warm with the children and him in a grotty hostel, considering what he had done.

With regard to the pitiful dog eyes - that does not work with me. I am not, nor have I ever been a sentimental person. The "poor me, I've ruined my life routine" makes me roll my eyes. Maybe that's harsh but that's me. I'm not unable to empathise, I'm just choosy about who gets such treatment. He doesn't qualify at the moment. Self pity is off my radar.

mathanxiety you have asked about my rush. I don't feel in a rush, but this is how I do things. I dislike drawn out pondering. I like to do all reasearch, think fully and make an informed decision. But I don't like to wait around. I know that might not add up with my emotions at the moment and I am trying to force myself to not make a decision. But it is hard.
I don't think I can go to counselling with him. I don't want to go, and I don't want to give him what he wants (for me to go). I will look into finding someone that suits me, and he can see someone. Maybe down the line it's something that we can reconsider.

He has booked a counselling session with someone local. She uses PCT (Rogerian)...does anyone know anything about this? BArmy what sort of counselling did you have and what did it do for you? What sort of issues were you sorting through?

I don't think that I can ask him to leave again. I feel, for me, that things are more likely to get resolved if he is here. And not in a "resuming the satus quo" way, because there is no way in hell that I am rolling over. Also, DS is much better since he returned. He is so sensitive and has been fractious while he was away. He burst into tears in the middle of Sainsbos the other day and wants to sleep with the door open and a million lights on
If I look at myself honestly, I think that I will try again. I am far from ready to tell him this. I don't want him to think that I am giving in. But when I really think about it, the alternative is less appealing that giving it a shot. I feel that if it doesn't work, it's ok - I can do things by myself, I can survive. I will live without him easily enough, but maybe it will be worth it. Maybe it won't and in a month or so I might decide that it isn't worth it and he can go. We shall see.
I might change my mind tomorrow though.

hoochie thanks for popping on and reading this behemoth of a thread. You know you should be writing that fic! I NEED to read it!

He turned up today while I was waiting for DS in the school playground. So he must have left work early.

foghorn yes - I think you are right, it would do noth of us some good. Since he has returned he has done a years worth of housework (for him) so maybe we should see if that can stretch to a whole weekend when faced with 2 children?

Where shall I go. I hate spas.