Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super.

I'm angry, can't you tell?

Tippy :(

Oh Tippy

pfft sorry just got back from school then preschool run then food shop and quickly baked a cake!

He has always been so laid back he is practically horizontal, everyone found it very amusing when we got together as I am very very organised, punctual, quick at making decisions and sticking by them..you really couldnt get 2 more opposite people (it was a standing joke at the speeches on our wedding day) He will talk about making a decision then not actually commit to making the decision iygwim, I give him options and have learnt to narrow them down (ie we were having the house redecorated by insurance and needed to make a decision on wallpaper/paint I had 15 samples on wall he just shrugged, narrowed it down to 4 and he finally committed to saying he liked 2 of them ) I have found it so frustrating in the past but have learnt to live with it now (but it appears that he has had an issue with me making decisions as since we seperated he said he felt that I took over and )

His relationship with his parents is that he is the 'golden' boy, he is the eldest (has a sister) and was very poorly at birth (he has a heart defect but is fine as long as he eats sensibly/exercises and keeps an eye on geeneral health) however his mum has mollycoddled him, when he lived at home neither him or SIL had to do anything to help, they were never made to get part time jobs (my parents were great but at 14 I started a saturday job as if I wanted extra things I was taught that I had to earn the money to pay for them), both him and SIL got into a lot of debt in their teens, PIL bailed them both out but never made either of them pay it back. Even now he is staying at PIL, so his life is perfectly nice as washing done, dinner on table every night, she makes his lunch for work, FIL added him onto car insurance and gives him extra money if he moans he is short so there is no reallity of what life is really like (at home I do all housework/cooking etc as he works 4.30am-5pm 5 or 6 days a week and I work 1.5 days a week) he does love the dd's but in can't really cope with them both at the same time and gets annoyed (inevitable takes them to PIL's and MIL then deals with them)

So for an almost 36 years old he ats pretty much like a 15 year old sticking his head in the sand!

tough as old boots me.

Seriously, it is sad but since my Ex did similar crappy things to Pfft's H, I have mourned my family but not him. What he did made me lose all respect, all love and any scrap of regard at all. So I'm much, much happier and healthier without him.

I have no doubt that Pfft will be fine too if she chooses to go it alone. Also tough as old boots

Pfft, I'm interested in that bank of happiness you mentioned.

What was your happiness like then, before your discovery? I agree that it would be enormously difficult to get through this if you had been running on empty before discovery. I'm also interested that you say you don't love him. Had your feelings been dissipating for him to a huge extent before this?

Tbh, this can happen when an affair is discovered, normally because of the distancing that goes on by the betrayer and it is a risk they always take - that by the time this all comes out, they have managed to kill all the love and goodwill that was there, but have a think about that.

I think talking is absolutely imperative at the moment, so would move heaven and earth to have someone take your DD out for the day so that you have uninterrupted time. I agree that your talks will have achieved more for being face to face.

There's a sense of you feeling that you're just not up to the battle that's ahead and that is absolutely fine if you know yourself well enough to assert that you can't do this and it's not worth it. I'm just probing what's behind that and why you might be feeling that way.

One of the best analogies I read when I was going through this was if you'd spent years building a house, you wouldn't sell it if it sprang a leak. That would be selling it low. You'd get it repaired and then if you no longer felt the same about it because it was now imperfect in some way, you'd sell it then.

interesting post WWIFN - more food for thought (just out of curiousity are you a thearpist/counsellor?)

eandh

WWIFN - is better than a counsellor in my eyes. She has first hand experience of many threads, such as this one.

And, I believe, has helped plenty of people along the way by selflessly sharing parts of her life with them.

agree her advice and theories are so 'spot on'it is people like her that make MN the place it is

Pfft - well done you for facing such a tough conversation. You are so strong.

I like your idea of a bank of happiness. I am sure that the good years of saving that my H and I had done really helped us in the past year. The other thing which seems to have helped me move on from my Hs deceit, was the fact that I got my love back for him as a person. I still hate and have no respect for his lies and his utter lack of respect for me, but I am able now to distance myself from that and love the guy he is and always was. The deceits were small but significant bad decisions he took. Not that he is bad.

I am away from home at a conference so can't post again! The things we do in hotel loos!!

You are doing really well Pfft. I sense you might be feeling a bit numb though? Have you thought what you want to end up with? Do you want your marriage with dh and to be with him forever or do you want to find a way to divorce but stay amicable?

Tippy I am so sorry for what you have been through but happy that you are making your own way and that you are finding some happiness. Thank you for sharing.

enadh Thats interesting. My husband has always had a low opinion of himself, and I have always put this down to his relationship with his parents. His sister was the golden child when they were growing up and he could never do anything to compare to her. It was always "why can't you work harder and be like your sister?" and his father has never respected his opinion. It's not that he can't make a decision, more that he can't form his own opinions, in that he has to hear from other people. He's not a good debater or any good at arguing because of this.

wwifn

When I refer to my "bank of happiness" I feel that it has been emptied by his actions and the events of the last few days. I was happy before this.
In terms of love, I have not at any other point thought that I might not love him, or might love him less.I would be willing to accept the possibility that maybe I do still love him but I can't see it at the moment. But that might not be the case.
I didn't experience any of the distancing that you mention (and I have read other infidelity threads that you have been on before - and felt in awe ) , neither did he go through the process of trying to blame things on me, or make me out to be a baddie so that he could feel better about what he was doing. BUT (and I have to believe this as I can find no evidence to the contrary, once evidence to support it, and he has been consistent in what he has said)...it was a very short term thing. They started talking on Monday, had sex on Weds, found out by her husband on Thursday, no more sex after that, found out by me on Sunday.

IUsedToBeFab

I don't know. I do feel numb. This morning I cried a little on the way home from school but that has gone now.

I don't know what I want. I was very close to telling him that I wanted to hash things out with the assumption that if we could reach an agreement then we would start to try and work things out. But I didn't.

Pfft, you've come this far being an example to everyone on how to behave with considered dignity IMHO. I don't think you have to reach any decision until you feel you need to iyswim.

Second that Tippy

Tippy is right, I was just wondering if it would help to know where you wanted to end up.

DH and I have had troubles and before we really talked about what went on I asked him if he wanted to stay married to me and go back to being strong and settled. It did help.

Thanks Pfft and I understand the chronology of this and the nature of your situation, I was just pointing out that the "bank of happiness" and love felt, is sometimes depleted before an affair discovery. Likewise, my H cannot recall blaming me at all during his affair - his distancing was all about creating a gap in emotional intimacy and was not connected to a need to vilify.

Perhaps then, this is an after-effect from such an enormous shock. If you felt you loved fully before and were happy, it is unlikely that all that goodwill and love has departed completely, although it might feel like that right now.

Why is it then, that you think you might lack the will and energy for this? What is it that puts you off the road ahead? I'm asking these questions not in a perjorative way at all, incidentally, I just want you to get some clarity about what's stopping you giving yourself permission to fight for this marriage and waiting for the necessary changes in him to take effect.

Other posters - I am not a counsellor. I'm in the lucky position of having built a business which now allows me to oversee and sub-contract work, so after years of hard work, my MD role is more about client relationships and quality control. I have often thought about becoming a therapist though!

I just 'worry' if that's the right word that this apparent reasonableness will lead you to settle back into things quicker than is perhaps healthy for you.

Pfft - you are doing so well. Don't make any rash decisions, take things one step at a time. You are being unbelievably strong :)

WWIFN part of it is my continued anger that I should not have to do those things. I know that this doesn't really make things any better because what I want to have happened is not what has actually happened.

To be completely honest, a chuck of me feels that fighting for the marriage, letting him back is weak. I don't want to say that because A) a lot of other people have done so and B)I suppose I know that it is not really true.

I also feel that I don't want to say that I will fight for him as he does not deserve it.

Pfft: just checking in on you

Hi, pfft

Logging on, back from work

I am glad you were able to talk to him reasonably and he seemed able to take some of your concerns on board.

Has he moved back in ? Other than facilititating more communication between you, I think that would be a bad idea. You can still make time time to talk without him getting his feet back under the table. Acceptance of blame can tend to take a nosedive once someone thinks they have attained the biggest thing they wanted.

And you know the biggest thing he wants is for you all to go back to normal. he is human...of course he does. To many men, being back within the folds of the family is enough or almost enough.

As you said though, your main focus at the moment is you wish heartily none of this had happened at all and why should you be suffering for it ?

So please be careful you don't "just go along with" daily life, kids, work, routines etc and let this get swept away, or minimised somehow. Because of course, you don't want the upheaval and the angst either.

Keep checking in and talking.

I also apologise for my role in derailing this thread last night. Although it was mildly amusing at first, some of it got quite nasty and dark, and I am sorry I escalated that with my own behaviour.

I thought that might be the case Pfft and I completely understand it. Probably like me, you spent years having very definite beliefs about what you would do in this situation and I know for me, I felt I was almost letting the side down and letting myself down, for even trying to forgive.

I think this is where the very wise advice you have had about waiting, watching and reflecting, might help. You might still not have made a decision in a year or two years time, but you'll be closer to it. The way I framed this for myself was that I was giving myself permission to try to forgive, but it was far too early to forgive in actuality. And there are still some aspects that I still haven't forgiven, but others, I have.

Like you, what helped my permission-giving process was that I knew I was staying for the right reasons; not for the DCs, not for the status and not for the financial stuff. I knew (and always did before) that I could be on my own.

However, as a perfectionist, I will admit I had to confront a fear of failure - and after 24 years I acknowledged how much pride I took in my happy marriage and how much it had enhanced my life. I have also had to confront that had my H's affair been public knowledge, I suspect my humiliation and pride would have initially triumphed over a more considered decision. I also know that if he had vacillated between me and the OW on discovery, my sense of esteem would have kicked in and him, out.

I am just grateful that we both had the strength to build a new marriage, because in our case, it would have been a monumental waste.

Perhaps one of the ways you can square this is to permit yourself a long decision-making process and that until you see change taking effect and intent translated into actions, your jury is still very firmly out.

Hello Pfft. So sorry to hear that you're going through this.

It's taken me a while to post as your OP brought back lots of unhappy memories for me as about 10 months ago, I made a similar discovery about my DH.

We are working through things and it's been a tough time but I can completely identify with your anger, indifference to your DH and feeling that you might be better off alone. Before we had counselling, I also felt like this towards my DH.

I received some fantastic advice from MN (particularly WWIFN and AF!)and DH saw a BASRT accreditted counsellor. I had seperate counselling sessions with a wonderful woman and then DH and I saw her together. I'd never been someone who really believed that counselling would work but it really did turn our relationship around.

DH says that he never realised that what he was doing was so bad that he stood a real risk of losing his wife and family. He thought that if I ever found out, I'd give him the proverbial slap on the wrist

As a result of the fall-out, he has totally changed pretty much all aspects his behaviour. He used to love his job but now he only works because he has to and spends every spare moment with me and the DC's. He is totally open and transparent about his phone, email etc and he has stopped socialising with certain people who we had identified as not being "friends of our marriage" (WWIFN's words I think!)

In short, I think we are well on the way to having the marriage and family life that we always wanted but it did take this awful, horrible time to realise that and take steps to turn it around. I can remember reading that a successful marriage is like a career - you can't just turn up and be present from 9 to 5 and expect to leapfrog your way to the top - it takes a lot of time and work to be successful.

There are still tough times but we deal with them as a team.

Take your time, don't make any hasty decisions and take strength from the fact that both you and he know that you could cope alone. When my DH realised that I thought I may be better off without him, he doubled his efforts to make things better. Your Dh does sound like he's beginning to realise the enormity of what he's done.

Would if help if I tried to list the things that we/DH did to make things better for us? It will sound v clinical but I struggled to think of anything when DH would ask, "what can i do to make things better" and I felt much more in control when I'd identified certain things that might help.

AF - You are right, he should go to a hotel or something. He came back here yesterday and it did not occur to me that there was any other option than for him to stay here as he works in London. So I thought that the only option was for him to stay in a hotel in London (as he did earlier this week). He commutes every day (2 hours each way) so talking time is limited in the week. I said before that he has taken tomorrow off work to talk. We will have to make the most of this as he only earns when he is working. And the last thingI want now is added money troubles.

But yes - he should stay nearby. Although, I do feel resentful that I am here dealign with all the child related stuff and he is elsewhere, sleeping full nights. Not that I resent the chilldren in any way.

AF do not worry about last night. I am not bothered by what occurred, only annoyed by the gruesome twosome.

WWIFN I am concerned about the practical aspects of a long decision making process. Where does he live? how do we manage the children?

penelope I am so sorry to have brought up memories that are painful for you. That has been the case for a few posters on this thread and I awful for all of you. Because you have all gone on to post despite your own feelings, and I really appreciate that. It would help to list those things, if you feel that you can do that. I am happy you can make things work out with your marriage.
I cansee the career analogy. I'm not sure it is for me though as my first thought was that people at work don't get second chances after gross misconduct. They get sacked.
I think that like your H, mine needs to change an awful lot. I will go and look at the BASRT website.

you still need "help" with all those family routines though don't you ??

< scratches head, ponders on dilemma >

although I expect, with a 2 hr commute during the week, he isn't a great deal of actual practical help, yes ?

could you arrange to go away by yourself/with friends/with family at a weekend coming up soon ?

leave him with all the responsibility (and yes, we don't resent them, but children are hard work) while you get your thoughts together without constant distractions

an idea ?

it might focus his own thoughts a teeny bit too...