Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

[PfftTheMagicDragon]

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super.

I'm angry, can't you tell?

Barmy Good grief, relationships are not about playing infantile games! Any woman with half a brain would be able to spot the manipulative tactics recommended by that crock of shite, masquerading as a book. Do you really think that Pfft's H is going to build a new, honest marriage by trickery and even more deceit?

I have been reading this thread since yesterday, but have nothing useful to add to the wealth of good, sensible and thought-provoking advice already offered by other posters. I hope that Pfft (and others going through similar stuff) find the way to getting through this in whichever way is right for them.

However, I have finally posted because I am, frankly, astounded at BarmyArmy's ridiculous pile of bullshit, loosely called advice.

No-one, surely, with even a smattering of empathy or common sense could honestly think that infantile game playing and manipulation could be helpful in this case, could they?? So, I have to wonder what BA's motives are for that, and to say - if you have nothing truly useful to say, please just say nothing.

BA - Are you insane?? That is some nasty drivel. Eurgh.

Pfft - yeah, I know, it's quite unpleasant to read from your point of view...I was merely making you aware that this books exists and can be very effective. A sort of 'warning' perhaps.

Its success lies not in establishing perpetual agreement, with the miscreant simply agreeing to everything the wronged party says, forever?more that it helps to dissipate anger and encourages the wronged party to think about a life apart as though it is already happening?instead of letting them make all the decisions.

Yes it is manipulative, yes it is unfair and yes it is very effective.

I was simply giving you a heads-up, in order that you might recognise these ?tactics? if they appear ? how you respond to them is up to you.

BA - how exactly do you know that this book is "very effective"?

he said above he has used it. he's rather scummy.

he said

(Incidentally, I have used this advice from this chap (not in marriages, but in relationships) - worked every time)

Missed that bit!! Wow, sounds a hot catch, doesn't he?

yep, id be dropping my knickers in an instant

I think that the tactics might be effective. To be honest, in a relationship that has not been going for too long, I can imagine it working. But it's a short term solution. It doesn't solve any issues. And I find it hard to imagine it working where two people know each other very well.

My husband knows that I would laugh in his face if he did something as spineless as starting to agree with everything I said and started playing a game like this.

I come at things from a different point of view. I think that it isn't a case of me sitting her deciding whether to end the marriage or not (so your plan would give me a taste of what it would be like without him), but rather I think of the relationship as over and I am considering whether we should try again. I haven't ended anything. He participated in relationship ending activities. I shall decide, and then we will decide together whether we want to try again.
He is already gone, he will be gone all week. I know what it will be like to be without him.

exactly pfft.

Pfft - good point, but I'll wager you'll be expecting daily phone calls.

The point of this advice is not to do any of that. To let you make the running, not him.

And to those that consider this immoral, infantile, unfair etc - it's effectively The Rules but used when a relationship has already been underway, as opposed to getting off the ground.

All fair in love and war - we do what we have to when it comes to starting or saving a relationship and anyone that has the temerity to suggest they wouldn't walk over hot coals to stay with their loved one is lying.

Why would you wager such a thing? Do you have some money you would like to lose?

I think that The Rules are childish and a ridiculous was to conduct your life, whether they are used by men or women.

Pfft - because I think we can all think of times when we have done whatever we had to in order to fix a relationship - these boards are full of such examples...of desperately unhappy people who don't understand what has happened and want it back to how it was.

Yes, the Rules are childish and ridiculous - yes, few will admit to using them but the simple fact is that they work, more often than not.

Showering someone with attention and affections - cards, flowers, chocolates, presents, emails, phone calls, texts - these all make one feel good and reassure us that that person wants us...but we don't end up with someone because of how they feel about us...we end up with someone because of how we feel about them and being forced to miss someone, to wonder where they are and what they are doing and who they are with - these are all thoughts and fears that we must all go through - a sense of longing, if you will.

We want to fight for someone - knowing that we have 'won' them already means the challenge is gone and our interest may wane.

How old are you BA? And what age or intelligence were the women with whom you've used these tactics? "The Rules" is in the same league as this nonsense, I agree, but no mature bright woman I know, thinks it's anything other than a load of sexist bollocks and is right up there with that "Men are from Mars..." tripe.

Relationships really are not about game-playing and manipulation. Walking over hot coals does not equate to conning one's partner and playing a poker hand. The hot coals should be about being honest, direct and open with eachother - and having the courage to examine one's own behaviour and eradicate faults that are identified. Being genuinely sorry and showing that in one's actions and deeds.

I can tell you now that if my H had ever consulted anyone called Homer MacDonald and thought his ideas were worth a try, I would conclude that he had vastly under-estimated my intelligence and was in a mindset whereby he was trying to save his own skin, not mine.

Re. the latter, it is precisely why Pfft, I asked you to listen out for whether your H is talking about the effect on his life and not yours. That mindset is very revealing and language is powerful. Listen out.

Oh and I picked up an another point you made while I was posting, about people desperate to get the relationship back to where it was...

This is a big mistake. The relationship shouldn't get back to where it was, because that involved the behaviours that permitted the infidelity. It really is about building a new relationship, with new boundaries and new behaviours.

:( Pfft. Sorry you're going through such a rough ride. I think people are speaking alot of sense on this thread (some unfortunately are not ), unfortunately, I don't have anything beneficial to add really.

I hope you are coping OK with the DC's - I'm sure you are, you come across as a very strong lady

WWIF - I am in my 30s.

The women on whom I "used these tactics" were in their 30s also - one a PhD, one a Masters graduate, one a doctor etc.

I accept it is difficult for some to read about the ways in which they can be "played", even more difficult for them to be honest and admit their own resort to similar tactics.

We all want to believe that relationships are fluffy and romantic and ideal and perfect but the reality is somewhat different ? waiting a while before replying to a text message, letting him/her make the next move ? are these really underhand and sneaky? Or are they simply small examples of the approach I have highlighted?

No-one likes to be played; I suspect some on here are reacting with such anger and disapproval because they now recognise past instances when they might have been.

Pfft, I agree with froghorn, you are getting some great advice here and sound remarkably strong.

You will find it hard to eat, you probably also have butterflies in your tummy all day and feel jittery. It is horrid, you will look back at this time and wonder how you managed to get the kids to school on time and fed etc. But you are doing just great.

My H had an emotional affair with apparently no physical contact and it changed everything. We are not quite at the place that WWIFN described where the relationship is better, but a lot of different aspects of our relationship are better and we are still 'a work in progress'.

Keep strong, you didn't ask for this challenge in life or in your marriage but are doing just great.

Actually we don't all want to believe our relationships are "fluffy and romantic", at least not this woman - do you, then, or are you attributing your "we all" to women only, BA?

And did you use these tactics after being in a relationship with one of these intellectual (different to intelligent) women for more than a few months? Are you saying these are tactics appropriate to Pfft's relationship of 10 years?

As for the resonance, I can certainly remember being played and playing rubbish games like this in my youth and at the start of relationships, but I wouldn't now and could spot it a mile off, if someone tried to do it to me.

BA you've really highlighted the problems with your approach to relationships yourself, haven't you? In as much as you appear to have had a series of fairly short term relationships (three in your thirties), and minimal experience of a long term relationship.

I wonder why that might be?

Of course,I fully expect that you will deny that, with examples of your brilliance at maintaining and nurturing a long term relationship too.

Perhaps though, you should attempt to learn something from Pfft, as an example of someone with integrity, self-esteem and reasonable boundaries, who is arming herself with whatever knowledge she needs to in order to reach a considered and mature decision about the path her relationship should take now.

loves2walk

Did you forgive him easily? Did you ever think about ending things? What has your husband done to make things better? Do you trust him again?

I don't want my relationship to be romance and flowers and fluff. And in fact, it never has been. It has been realistic. Loving and kind, but with a strong dose of reality. Particularly now

I can see how things get swept under the carpet. I can feel the urge to be honest. After the anger has gone and you can function properly, you feel normal again and you want things to be right again. Of course, that would be right as if it had never happened (and we can't have that) but it would be easy to pretend that we could.

I won't of course (sweep thing, or roll over) but I can feel the urge to do it. It would kill me in the end I know and nothing would last.

I don't really want to argue about The Rules. I think that Barmy Army is a bit deluded about relationships but he isn't being offensive. I hope no-one would read the book he has recommended. He is offering advice, which while it is not my brand of advice, has still taken him time to type.

I feel a bit flat now. I don't want to have to deal with all this shit.

I mean, I shouldn't have to deal with it.

WWIFN - did your husband tell everyone what he had done? I mean family and all. I think you have written that he did?

ScaredOfCows - I was happy to give context in so far as it explained this approach but this thread isn?t about me and I feel we?re getting off the point. I?m not going to give you chapter and verse on my personal life to date ? rest assured, it?s been an awful lot of fun at times and a bit rubbish at others ? something many people would agree with.

Besides, you appear to have misinterpreted my contributions to date ? for which I take full responsibility in not being clearer ? I was indeed trying to help Pfft ?arm herself?, by making her aware of this book and its advice.

Your somewhat negative analysis of my personality and relationship history I leave to one side as it adds nothing to this thread. I?m sure you had your reasons.