Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another DickFace to Add to The Pile

883 replies

PfftTheMagicDragon · 26/09/2010 13:08

....Of men that you thought wouldnever betray you but then did it anyway!

My DH has always been loyal. To a fault. Never cheated. Was cheated on in the past by girlfriends, worshipped the ground I walked on. Good sex life, with dry patches, we had started about a year ago to spice things up, toys, bondage.

Turns out, he's been internet flirting/sexting/fucking her on MSN!!

Delightful Hmm

It started 6 days ago. I have seen his phone. And the e-mails and a picture that they exchanged.

And now I am just like all the others. I did ask him how it felt - To be just like all the other cheating dickwads that I read about on here. If it was worth it, if he was thinking about what every other weekend would feel like when he was telling her how much he likes her wet pussy.

Super. Confused

I'm angry, can't you tell?

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 27/09/2010 16:52

I mean relating to these sort of matters. It has always been my opinion that I would not forgive something like this and when asked for my opinion, I would probably sound a little AnyFuckerish (Wink) about it - opinions about keeping their cock in their pants and how it's not that hard.

I am comfortable in my beliefs generally and try to hold true to them, and am generally unapologetic about them.

I do not believe in things like holding onto family members that treat you like crap for years and years just because you share blood, for instance.

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 27/09/2010 16:55

AF - is that because of the infidelity, or not being able to believe anything he would say ever again? I suppose they are the same really.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 27/09/2010 17:00

pfft, I think, for me, it would not be the original wrong-doing that would sound the death-knell for me

it would be the subsequent self-entitled attitude and the general pissed-off-ness at being caught out. This appears (at the moment) to be his standpoint, with little (from what you have said) devastation on your behalf and an expectation that you will shut up about it when he has been in the doghouse for a few days

has he made any promises/committments to you about how he sees any future you have together playing out ? Is he coming from a willing-to-compromise direction or still asserting he did nothing wrong because "they didn't actually meet" ?

have you asked him how he would have reacted to similar behaviour from yourself ? Would he be happy for you to foster a sexual relationship with someone else, and for the pattern to be an escalating one ?

Mouseface · 27/09/2010 17:00

Pfft - In my case I found out because DP was a shit liar.

Said he was somewhere that he wasn't so I asked him outright.

He lied and I knew it. So I asked him again. He came clean. Slowly and over the next few days, he told me more.

Whether he ever told me all of it, I'll never know.

I forgave him and we stayed together. Although I was always suspicious. I was waiting for him to do it again.

5 weeks later he went AWOL one night, turned up the next day still pissed and saying he'd been at a mates house.

He was lying.

That was the last time he came home.

And BTW, once he'd gone, I found out I was pregnant. It didn't change my mind.

Bast · 27/09/2010 17:12

Pfft, I hold similar beliefs.

When faced with a full-blown affair, I ended it.

I think my morals nearly killed me! Not in the sense that I ended it (for me, that was the right thing to do) but in the sense that I kind of rolled over and died...

I wish I had fought in the way that AF (I think) suggested - i.e. what's good for the gander, etc

...but my trust in his loyalty was deep, so the betrayal cut at a deep level and led me to question some of those unforgiving beliefs.

The end result is that if DP were to enter a fantasy fling with someone - we'd need real work but I don't think I would end it. If he had the lack of awareness to allow fantasy to become reality, then I would.

Many people step close to that line but not all have the clarity of thought to step away in time. That distinction would matter to me, now.

AnyFucker · 27/09/2010 17:13

pfft, I guess they are one and the same

the aftermath, long and drawn-out, would kill me, I like things sorted, here and now. It is a fault of mine.

I know people who have done it though, forgiven and moved on (WWIFN is a brilliant example on MN). But she had very, very clear stipulations about what her husband had to do to make it OK again.

People who can forgive are probably a better person than me Smile

mf, I admire you, I admire WWIFN too

only you know what you can tolerate pfft, and how you are prepared to live your life

and that hangs very much, I think, in how he behaves right now, and in the next few, painful months

Mouseface · 27/09/2010 17:19

AF - 'only you know what you can tolerate pfft, and how you are prepared to live your life and that hangs very much, I think, in how he behaves right now, and in the next few, painful months'

That is exactly it. It is a case of what you can tolerate, what you can handle. Will you drive yourself and everyone else who you may tell insane with your worrying that he'll do it again?

Will you trust him when he next logs on to the PC? Makes a call? Leaves the house?

Thing is, as I found out, you can lay down the law as much as you like but in the end, if he wants to cheat, he will.

And the same is true of women BTW, this is not behaviour exclusive to men.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 27/09/2010 17:25

Pfft this is what I was alluding to earlier. What people say they would do in an infidelity situation - and what they actually do are often very different things. I used to think like you and was very definite about it, but each situation is different. And so much depends, post-discovery, on the actions of the person who has hurt you; how much they change as a result and how confident you are that this could never happen again.

I can tell you that hurt pride often gets in the way of a considered decision, which is why I urge people to seek information, ask questions and listen before deciding.

And that whenever infidelity happens, unless the character weaknesses of the unfaithful party are eradicated, there is always a chance that this will happen again. Having been through this once, most people can allow themselves some certainty, that they wouldn't forgive a second time - and I think that's the sanest response too, because once the unfaithful spouse has seen the hurt and destruction, to do it again smacks of sadism and an intention to hurt.

A distinction needs to be made too between the verification you are doing now with the chat logs (and I know I keep suggesting it, but phone bills too please!) - and the notion that you will be doing this forever more. If you both learn from this and heal well, you won't be forever snooping at all.

When someone has just come out of a deceitful situation, they are in the habit of lying. As you have discovered with your H, he told lies after discovery too. In this situation, it makes absolute sense to verify everything.

I scratch my head and wonder why anyone would consider making such a life-changing decision, without all the facts to hand? Even in a business decision, if a colleague or competitor had been deceiving and lying to you, you wouldn't continue to trust what they said and ignore other incontrovertible sources of information, would you? This is even more important.

Let me share a little of my experience. Despite the fact that I had a gut feeling there might be an affair, 6 weeks before discovery I did the grown-up thing and asked my H if there was anyone else. Even at the time, it seemed an utterly bizarre suggestion because I'd never had those instincts before and of course, this was met with a denial.

I didn't snoop then or before. I believed him totally. My accidental discovery was made when charging a lost phone, which my H had given to our DS weeks earlier and which I had found at the bottom of a cupboard, where it had been for 5 weeks. The shock was enormous and horrific. After that and the subsequent confrontation, having never invaded my H's privacy in what was by then 24 years of marriage, I snooped with impunity. My H knew that I was doing this and gave me complete access to everything anyway. He understood why I was doing this.

Over 2 years on, I cannot remember the last time I verified or snooped on anything. I trust him completely. My life and the people we are now, are very different. I think hell would have to freeze over before my H would do anything to hurt me like this again, but he knows if he does, there will be no second chances.

But by God if I had my time again, I would have snooped once I had some suspicions and would advise anyone in that position to do the same, before and after discovery. People's mental health is worth far more than some noble desire to respect privacy.

Mouseface · 27/09/2010 17:26

Pfft

The other thing I meant to say is that if you do forgive him and try to recover your relationship, then you have to leave it in the past.

You can't use this against him in an argument. This is not a weapon for you to use if he pisses you off leaving the loo seat up or whatever.

If you forgive him, then you have to put this in a box and seal it tight.

It will eat away at you both for a very long time otherwise.

AnyFucker · 27/09/2010 17:29

I am a selfish person

If I felt I had to police someone else's behaviour, and that took time and emotional energy away from doing my own thing, I would soon grow to hate that person and think "I cannot be arsed with this"

I also take very unkindly to being made a fool of, by the person who is supposed to be looking out for me (as I look out for him)

pfft, this isn't about me though

you need some balance

you need WWIFN on your thread

PfftTheMagicDragon · 27/09/2010 17:45

AnyFucker - he has moved on to repentant shame. He says that he would do anything that I asked to keep us together. Including never using online chat or Facebook ever again, never looking at porn ever again, giving me passwords to everything if necessary, never having sex again, telling everyone what he has done and seeing a counsellor. We have had tears and snot and everything. He says over and over that he is sorry and that all that matters to him is me and the children and he wants to be with us forever. I asked him (in an angry moment of spite) if I could go out and fuck someone and he said that he couldn't really say anything about that as he was in no position to criticise.

I also know that I need balance, but it is hard, because in the ways that you have described, we are quite similar. Of course, that does not mean that we should make the same decisions, but I want things sorted NOW, not in 3 months time. I like to think about things, weight up the options and make a decision. I don't want things to be drawn out. I hate the fact that in order to save the marriage we will have to have months of drawn out conversations and talks with a counsellor trying to fix everything. I don't want to have to police him, I want to be married to someone that can look after their own life. (and yes, do it to my standards). I would like that person to be him.

Mouseface
My DH is a shit liar also. This is how it came out. I could tell from the look on his face and simply asked the same questions over and over until he gave me the truth. 5 months! So not long then. I know - if he is going to do it again, then he will, regardless of me and what I say. My mother did say that about forgiveness. I know that I would have to move on properly, to leave it in the past if we were to have a future.

Bast
Thank you, your post is very useful to me. My beliefs tell me to get rid of him. Part of me wonders if these beliefs will take over and I will be beholden to my principles at the cost of all else. Because I need an internal moral dilemma now, right? Grin

WWIFN

24 Years! Bloody hell! I find it hard to imagine...you fool yourself into thinking that at that point, you are immune, but of course we are not.
I have the landline records and will look at them tonight. It is his mobile bill that I need. That will come to the house (the phone is new - and yes I have checked the old one but that was PAYG) so when the first bill comes I will get it and look. I deal with all paperwork so this makes things easier for me.

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 27/09/2010 17:47

ALso - WWIFN - when he was confessing, did you ask if he had done it before? Did he deny? Did you believe him?

OP posts:
Mouseface · 27/09/2010 17:53

Pfft - 5 weeks, not months. Although I suspect that he had started to lie and cheat again before he didn't come home that night.

Follow your instincts.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 27/09/2010 17:54

Of course! And no, he had never done it before. I absolutely believed that then, as I do now. His affair was of the fantasy type too in the main (met the OW twice in 4 months) and in his case, became addicted to the buzz of it, rather than the woman herself. He has done a lot of work on himself, because it was all about him, not me or our marriage.

AnyFucker · 27/09/2010 18:28

ah, wwifn, we cross posted (or the ironing got in my way or summat)

some of what I said in my last post looks like I am directly addressing you and your actions

I wasn't

like I said, we cross posted

AnyFucker · 27/09/2010 18:33

pfft, I am better liking your Dh's reactions now (not liking...you know what I mean, more approving of)

I know I am evil, but I would need to see snot, and bucket-loads of it Smile before I could even begin to think he had some regret

how is he going to make you think he truly is sorry and truly understands how stupid he has been, though...and not just for being a shit liar and getting found out

promises to give up this, that and the other, while absolutely necessary of course, still put the ball firmly in your court in a way. In that, you would have to catch him at it again, and you would have to remain convinced he hadn't dabbled in them again

too much about you and not enough about him

I don't know the answers, btw, I am musing

if any of this isn't helping, please tell me, and I will back off nicely, I promise

DinahRod · 27/09/2010 19:19

WWIFN, could you explain what you mean by dh did a lot of work on himself, what sort of things did he do that made such a fundamental difference?

BrianAndHisBalls · 27/09/2010 19:49

mydp did something similar, flirted online with a load of random people. Lied about it, dripfed, whole 9 yards.

Eventualy he gave me the passwords to all his stuff email/fb etc and I read all the correspondence. Made me sick to my stomach. Reading through though verified what he had (eventually) told me so restored a tiny bit of faith.

We had some really hard times, I used to check up on him constantly and accuse him of lying. Any little thing like watching jk Blush if they had a similar story on, or driving past somewhere I knew one of the women was from, could bring it all back.

Made me very ill mentally, I was a total mess.

We went to counselling, he asked me to. The fact that he wanted to go and arranged it meant a lot to me.

We are a couple of years on now and it crosses my mind rarely. I still have the passwords to all his accounts though, and he always leaves his phone lying around or asks me to look if he hears a message come through. This builds the trust back.

So I suppose Im saying that Im usually very black and white and would normally say 'kick the fucker out' but actually, having been there, I didn't and we now have what I feel is a strong relationship (with occasional blips obviously)

So, take your time, its a devastating shock to come to terms with and you need time. x

PfftTheMagicDragon · 27/09/2010 20:09

AnyFucker I don't want you to back off. Your posts make me alternately smile (evil snot requirements) and think about things You have been a great help.

He has made an appointment to see someone at Relate and is going tomorrow. He is happy to do it, we have discussed that he clearly has issues with controlling his internt use and also issues with a desperation to be liked leading to giving too much away online. Aside from all the obvious, of course.

Brian Thank you for your story. I am sorry that you had to go through similar. You are right, the feeling you get when you read through the e-mails is vile. When I saw them all on his phone, I forwarded them all to his e-mail address and then set his e-mail to forward to me, so nnow I have them all there, looking at me. It does me good to look at them (though won't forever) because it reminds me not to get too caught up in the thought of our marriage.

How far did your DH go? Was it only ever online? Does he use the internet much now?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 27/09/2010 20:21

am sticking around x

BrianAndHisBalls · 27/09/2010 20:28

It was online (dating site) and he actually contacted two by text, and one of those then by phone. They arranged to meet. He told me they didn't and the emails from her verified this (she was very upset that he'd cancelled with short notice).

I too kept the correspondence for a while and used to reread it, it made me feel worse each time though. I had to draw a line because every fight, every minor disagreement I'd throw it all in his face. I was slowly losing my mind with self doubt and just torturing myself over it all.

For me the worst was that I thought we'd been happy, had detected no real signs, thought he was cagey with his mobile but thats about it. When I tied up the dates/times of the emails I realised it had been when we'd had a lovely weekend or the day we'd had a lovely meal the day before or... etc. It cheapened everything and made me doubt all our 'good' times. Made me doubt myself too, why wasn't I 'enough' for him? and other such stupid crap Grin

He explained it all by saying he was bored (we didn't live together then, it was on nights I wasn't seeing him) and was arsing around on the pc at night and thought it was just a bit of a 'fantasy'. He said he never wanted to make it 'real' with any of them just liked to feel attractive and that it was an ego boost.

The emails and messages were what I'd call cheesey 'you're really pretty' etc but no directly sexual stuff (that I know of). The denial of having a girlfriend really pissed me off though.

He hardly ever goes on the pc now. It was a condition of us staying together that he was transparent about everything and he generally is. He's got very good at saying 'this is upsetting for you isnt it?' when something comes up that reminds me now (storyline on tv), rather than before when we'd both sit there and try to pretend it hadn't happened.

Hope this is of some help to you.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 27/09/2010 20:34

Dinah goodness where to start? I've posted a lot on here about what he did, but from the start, he took total responsibility for it all and apportioned no blame whatsoever in my direction, or our marriage, which he always insisted was happy and fulfilling.

He decided himself to go for solo counselling and continued that for months and found it very helpful. He's read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass twice now and several other books about infidelity and behaviour patterns. He also took a job which allowed more time for us as a family, even though the OW wasn't at his workplace.

He's been willing to - and then wanted to himself - talk a lot about what happened and why.

He also identified himself that prior to the affair, he was quite selfish and lazy, regularly told casual lies, resisted difficult conversations and was complacent. I can honestly say all that has gone. Some of those traits went overnight and others took some time and work.

He really understands infidelity now and the boundaries necessary in a marriage and is evangelical about how much damage it causes, to the betrayer as well as the spouse.

He has also had to face up to our extended family now and explain how this can never happen again - and also our teenage DCs.

He was, like Pfft's H, a total mess on discovery and eventually had a full emotional breakdown. He often says it goes without saying that he would never do this to me again, but says that he would never do this to himself again.

I suppose ultimately, he fought bloody hard for our marriage and for me - and took all the hurt, recriminations and blame on the chin. All the while doing everything humanly possible to make my life easier and rebuild my shattered esteem.

Consequently, I always advise betrayed partners to judge their spouse on their actions and not their words.

We were happy before, but we're very happy now.

BrianAndHisBalls · 27/09/2010 21:04

A lot of what WWIFN just said is what DP did too, he went to my parents and apologised for all the distress caused, he went off his own bat I didn't even know he'd gone. I thought that took real guts (my dad is very scary!)

He never blamed me or said he was unhappy in our relationship. He put up with me screaming at him for weeks on end. He talked about it whenever I wanted to even though I know he found it hard.

He was in a bad place when it happened (father had just died) and although it wasn't an excuse and he never used it as such, I think it did make it easier for me to move pst his behaviour.

Also, he was on the dating sites when we met (thats how we met), he just didn't come off them, I found that easier to forgive than if he'd met me and then joined up if that makes sense.

DinahRod · 27/09/2010 21:12

Thank you WWIFN. Would you say it was the Shirley Glass book that prompted a lot of his soul searching or the counselling or a combination?

I C&P something you wrote a long time ago about the cheating partner reinventing the marriage in their minds to justify their betrayal and sent it to my bf who said it was a light-bulb moment. Another friend, who've I been encouraging to come onto MN, said that her cheating hb's apologies just ring hollow, so if you don't mind, I will C&P you again and buy her that book.

Sorry, to digress on your thread, Pfft.

PfftTheMagicDragon · 27/09/2010 21:21

Thanks, AnyFucker, You're like my new best friends. But I have internet boundaries, ok? No taking off your clothes Wink

I feel like myself again. Myself with new knowledge. Not angry Pfft. I want to be able to deal with this as myself, not an Incredible Hulk version of me.

Brian I am there with the feeling cheapened. I think about how he would call me at lunchtime at work and chat about day to day stuff and then go online and talk dirty to her. It makes everything we have ever done seem fake. Which of course it isn't, but still.

WWIFN I am glad that I have read that. Thank you. We have just spoken on the phone. He said that he places no blame on me, and that our marriage was fine, it is him that is not fine. He hates the amount of time he spends online, that he will favour that rather than the children. He said that he doesn't want to blame something else though, that it was his fault. He spent about 20 minutes crying. AnyFucker I think that there was significant snot.

He has serious problems assessing what is appropriate. I don't want to be the one telling him what is appropriate and what is not, I want him to do this for himself.

I don't know if my principles will let me make it work. I don't want to get caught up in the words and who we were and it's hard. I know I don't have to make a decision now, but this stalemate cannot drag on. I'm not a procrastinator by nature.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread