NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

Relationships With Abusive Narcissists Dr Vaknin
Ok just read this thanks for the link Grace ,explains why i am still attracted to H even though i shouldnt be ,he has moved on because i sussed him out but keeps yoyo in back and forth until this time has found a young thing to text and chat to.just a new supply,i truly think he doesnt have to sleep with her{bear with me im not just being deluded just a theory}i think the text chat fills the gap and an affair might ruin their relationship IYSWIM.I am trying to seperate myself from this and infact the new supply has helped alot LOL!But when my head knows i must never be back with him,my heart reacts as it always has done and now that just makes me cross at myself.I become entranced by his looks and his presence.I just want to know what is goin on with my brain.I dont bother if i dont see him but i am as weak as a kitten when i do.Living with him when i had sussed him just meant he detatched from me altogether.i dont believe he has empathy i dont believe he has a conscience ,my relationship with him was a catalogue of abuse,he was a pathalogical liar as article saysbut he doesnt want to let go of me just yet ,i think he sees me as his back up supply ,if anyone can tell me why i still have these feelings please do ,i feel i have done a lot of work on myself so i think it is the last strings of co dependence on my part ,I am moving house soon and then eventually will get rid of every scrap of his,have dumped plenty after him ignoring my requests to pick up belongings ,then he becomes the victim whose wife threw his stuff out LOL!Just all general head fuckery ,Anyone else have problems re access ie the stronger and more consistent i am the less he sees his kids ,the more disconnected i am ie the more it seems to him that i am accepting his behaviour the easier ?more frequent the access to dcs but his life obviously always comes first,any thoughts?
ps re astrology theory earlier ,i too thought it was because he was a Scorpio LOL!

I know. It's so sinister, isn't it? You only see it looking back, and then you think ... really? Honestly? That sinister??

Yep.

If my H, who is hot, younger than me, and met me in full-on glamorous mode, prefers me without makeup and in glasses, I should be pleased, no? I wasn't, not at all. But I couldn't explain it even to myself. I blamed myself for being superficial & insecure!

As you say - ffs.

FFS

I'M A SCORPIO

Lmao

Hi patience - i'm yet to separate from mine but just wanted to say that mine's a scorpio as well and in the early days I thought it was all down to that! LOL indeed.

Pinemartina - wow, isn't it funny looking back on it all with a clear vision, how controlling he really was. Owning you like that.

I remember one christmas feeling humiliated in front of my family because N had bought me a whole new wardrobe of clothes that he thought I should be wearing. I had a pile of 'presents' from him to open, the first was a coat, everyone said how nice it was, (it wasn't that nice, just a normal black coat), but then on and on the opening of these clothes went, a drab brown skirt, a couple of plain shirts and trousers, all very drab - peoples attention turned away from what I was opening as it was obvious I was getting embarrassed. I knew the meaning behind it all - that he was telling me how to dress - I think that was one of the first times I felt a bit freaked out and cringey.

me too bbtb ...that theory kept me goin til we split last year LOL!

My N used to refuse to make my coffee how i liked it because he didn't "approve" of how I drank it

And yes he did say "approve"

Patience I absolutely detest my xp for all that he has done.He is scum,lowlife and absolutely beyond forgiveness.

I would never let him near my dc again and would not wish to pass him in the street.

I haven't seen or heard from him in 5 months,and know I am lucky to have got off so lightly...

....But..I dream about him at night and wake up crying.I miss his smell and the feel of his body..blah blah....I have to work really hard to keep thought blocking his face,voice,my memories when they pop intrusively into my mind all the time....

I would swallow strong chemicals to get rid of all that.

I think it's co-dependence. I am grieving for a mothers love.I never had it.What I did have was exactly the same shape/recipe/ whatever as what that F*er served up.That's why I accepted it,I guess.So I imprinted on him in a pitiful fashion like a greylag goose.

Funny,I have never consciously noticed any feeling other than disgust/anger towards my mother...or maybe not so funnily.

I'm Leo does that make me more susceptible or was it the patterns i viewed in childhood Dont mean to lower the tone of this thread just had a narc world revisited type of day and i need to laff!

Pinemartina - have you read the Lundy Bancroft book? There is a bit in there about how gifts and gestures can be controlling, I think.

This bit especially -

it was all good natured...but felt controlling and odd..

I think it was the opposite - it sounds, to an outsider, to be good natured - you couldn't exactly say to someone who asked "Oh why did you leave your husband?" "Because he cooked me too many nice dinners"? Could you? But that's the point, it's done almost to prove to you that he's so wonderful, why would you ever want to leave? It IS controlling, and it's conscious, on some level at least.

Funny how they pick one thing about you and then go on about how their ex was the opposite, too! I am younger than XP, but he'd go on and on and on about this 30 year old babysitter he'd supposedly shagged when he was 14. FFS! As if! But he'd always go on about "older women" and "milfs" and how much better they were.

He honestly makes my skin crawl now. I don't know what I ever saw in him.

Lol at some of these.
Mine used to keep detailed diarys about people ( including details about my cycle and when we had sex ) and always refered to himself in the third person. He would rewrite history and twist things so convincingly i honestly thought i was mad.

He was a perv too and spent hours watching porn. He was also obsessed with his arsehole and would show it to me on a regular basis .Lol !

Seems like a lifetime ago now though. You really do get your self back, but it takes time.

Thanks PM ,i just cant really share that a lot because people think you are weak.I was very vulnerable when i met him,he totally validated my existence filled huge gaps in my self esteem,self image etc,had just started {6mths}recovery from 5yr eating disorder pattern and subsequent depression self loathing .Probably now the attraction is i my brain knows {logically} he can take the pain away that i suffered thru the split ie he comes back no more break up pain,if that makes sense,but i know positively definately the relationship is over but we both keep the door ajar just a little eg i dont want to be with another man yet .The longer we are apart the more likely we stay apart ,i am strengthening my resolve everyday and therefore i am not really of any interest to him.My kids though keep my boundaries high,i will never put them back in the crazy world that once was my life ,but he is like kryptonite to me .I feel ashamed of myself for letting his presence affect me like this ie my heart skips a beat bollocks .

LOL dignified

Something I struggle with is that in some way there was a certain relief in having control taken from me....

Only at certain times.
Most of our relationship was me and him together on my weekends when my dc were with their fathers.

I think ,having so much responsibility for most of my time,I was happy to sink into the zone on our romantic weekends away.

That's how I let it build up,without really noticing,or taking responsibility.

Rescue fantasy stuff.
And what you say Patience ,about validating my existence and filling gaps in my self esteem.

• I never had to find anything to do when my dc were away,or consolidate the work I had done in therapy.I just allowed him to take over.

Patience , dont feel ashamed , there IS an addictive element to these twats. My heart would pound when my phone beeped even though i knew it was a horrid abusive message from him , its completeley normal i think. You will recover , ( have you looked at traumatic bonding ? ) and youll honestly laugh that he ever had this effect on you.

I used to have obsessive thoughts, would talk for hours about nothing else, and i was on several threads on here ranting and raving about his arsehole one minuite and missing him the next.

Hi All,
Thought I'd jump on this post. I've recently split up (the 2nd time) from my XP. I'm not sure if he is N but I think emotionally abusive? From what I've read on this thread there are some similarities.
My X never moved in with me when I was pregnant with DS1, (it was my fault as I went on holiday with a friend, not him, and therefore he couldnt trust me) He was hardly ever here, maybe once or twice a week he would come over. (My fault again as I 'wouldnt' cook for him. When I tried it was never good enough, I had to do it his exact way or I was deliberately doing it wrong to upset him. He would sit there in silence when presented with the meal and not eat. Would end up leaving & going home in a mood.) He wouldnt help me at all with DS1. If i asked to change nappies or anything, he's say he was tired, cant I do it, it was my job etc etc.
He would have mood swings, I felt like constantly walking on egg shells. Gave me silent treatment. Everything was always my fault. When I went into labour with DS1 (10pm) he wouldnt come as his other son (7yr old) was sleeping and he didnt want to wake him.
He is a substance abuser aswell, (weed). He was always at least 5-7hours late or would not come over at all. We never did anything together, or socialise. He stopped me speaking to any male x's, and when I did see an x for coffee for 30 mins once, he didnt speak to me for a week, (this was when I was heavily pregnant). always very selfish and not at all concerned with how I'm coping raising DS1 etc etc etc....
I'm currently pregnant with no.2, obviously this one wasnt planned, (but very welcome). hE HASNt been here more, in fact less. Not concerned with helping me when I was nauseaous etc.
Sorry for long post. But like a lot of you've said, sometimes you need a 3rd party to tell you your not crazy and it is unacceptable behaviour. Is this a N or what?

Thankyou for giving me hope Dignified ,yes have read a bit re bonding,what really hit home with me was how the person that can hurt you the most in life can also give you your happiest most secure feelings.As a young woman in my twenties this was the pattern our relationship took .

I would say definitely,freedom.

Please look after yourself and ds.
It is so hard dealing with these men when you are pg - as you have already experienced.

His behaviour has been unacceptable.You are NOT crazy.
You deserve way better.Keep posting.x

Agh, freedom! What an arse Yes, I'd say definitely too. Don't go for a third season, this one might do you in.

Thanks from me, too, dignified, I need to believe I'll "find me" :)

Since dad died, my mum has had two long-term relationships with VERY NICE men. Not perfect or anything, just decent people who consider others. For a while I enjoyed coaching her - she was so used to being treated like an annoyance, she really didn't get that nice men pick you up if you've missed the last bus and walk you home when it's dark, etc. Now she gets on my tits with her insecurity and youth obsession, but I make allowances - which is far easier, now I know what I'm dealing with! Anyway, she can't get excited by these men the same way she did with Dad. She got hooked on the adrenalin cycle.

I explained it to her - there's always a drama on the way, or you're getting over a drama, or a drama's happening! (Abuse cycle, of course.) YES! she exclaimed, eyes aflame, IT'S SO EXCITING! I just looked at her, hopelessly.

I cannot tell you how over it I am. I watch the soaps, I like jet skis and theme park rides. That's all the "excitement" I want in my life. I'm listening to my adrenals

Bratnav - Welcome to the Stately Home!

I know my posts are getting weirder (it's been an intense day in my head) and I promise I'll stop after this one - which I'm sure is weird, as it was prompted by my cat. Last night I went to bed earlier than usual; cat didn't want to come in, so I left her out all night. Today, she's been quite pathetically clingy: eating like she didn't know when her next meal would be; miaowing, begging for strokes, etc.

So tonight I thought, "better make sure the cat stays in, she was too freaked out after last night." Then I thought: that's the difference between me and an abuser, isn't it? Your abuser would find it very handy that one night of being scared yields a whole day of dependence, wouldn't they? They'd lock her out again, just for the laugh / ego boost.

It is truly amazing how you can lose yourself with these twats. Before i met EH i was an active member of Amnesty International. The other day i was picking up the junk mail, double glazing ect , when i noticed the Amnesty magazine.

It has been coming every month for literally years, i have seen it but thrown it away with all the junk. I sat on the stairs and looked at it for the first time in years , and read the descriptions of people all over the world who are suffering and looked at their pictures , a guy who has spent 30 years in solitary confinement , a woman jailed indefinateley for daring to speak out against womens rights ect ect

I was horrified. I knew this, i had always felt strongly about it , how had i managed to forget about these people , or chosen not to see ?

I used to say to my counseller " how could i have put up with this crap for so long " and she said, you werent really there , some part of you had to shut down in order to cope. I think thats true , i know it when im happy just to be , when i feel things i should feel. I dont think i really properly lived things, the birth of my dcs seems like an old dream , i cannot remember myself. I know i was there , but in some ways , i was not.

My EH was a rapist, a pervert, a bully and nearly drove me to suicide. Seems such a long time ago now, i dont recognise that person i used to be , the reason is, that wasnt me.

Not weird at all Grace. But there should be a rule on this thread No Self Depreciating Comments Allowed , even if tongue in cheek.

Something i want to add which i think is important , as we post on these threads, we dont know who is reading. Our experiences , the things weve learnt are not for nothing. Someone somewhere is reading.

Remember UnlikeleyAmazonions thread ? She was distraught and her pain was evident , it was heartbreaking . She could not know that someone like me was lurking and just reading , and she could not possibly know the impact that those posts would have on me and my dcs.

Slowly, through her posts i began to look closeley at this guy sat opposite me and began to question his behaviour , and started to wake up. When the horror hit me i would post hysterical messages and was comforted by her. She had a young baby to feed, was penniless , but if she could do it, so could i. She was such an inspiration in those bleak times.

Through her, my life has changed drasticly, and that of my dcs. Would i ever have woken up ? A good freind has also had the courage to say " no more ". Id like to think that because I have experienced this, my children wont , nor will theirs. We really have no idea of the impact we have on others, words on a screen or in person. Im quite positive that UA doesnt know who the fuck i am, but i often think of her .

Anyway, i think i might have topped the weirdest post tonight. Just thoughts, nothing is wasted.

Thank you :) And, yes, thanks to UA from me, too.

I can identify with many of the things you have all mentioned... Dignified, your post about what you used to be passionate about or really interested in really rings bells for me.
My H NEVER hit, bullied or was verbally abusive towards me.. but he has been known to say to me on more than one occasion, that the way I go on about him (to him) you would think he was like that. He never understood that his total lack of empathy or understanding about the way I feel or felt about things, hurt me.
I am now in the process of separating from him, he has, thankfully, moved out of the family home ( although all his belongings are here still) and is playing the victim of/to my unpleasantness. He will not accept that it is over for me. I am still HIS wife, HIS fluxy, I am destroying the family and I am screwing up the children.
The weirdness of his behaviour at times, and his refusal to accept that it was weird, made me feel as though I was losing my mind. I too feel exhausted, drained and emotionally battered...
Drip, drip, drip.
Even now, now that it is over for me... he's still declaring undying love, texting, calling, harassing me, telling me I don't understand, trying to make me believe that I am making the biggest mistake of my life in leaving him.
If I do loose my cool and get angry with him when he won't take no for an answer, I'm told to calm down. When I'm calm with him he says that I am trying to freeze him out with being cold towards him. Can't win.
he's even resorted to declaring all this undying love and devotion in front of the children, often whilst cuddling them... it makes me sick.
Oh and star signs... he's an Aries. I always thought that it was an Aries man thing as I had an abusive ExBF who was an Aries... I've now come to realise that it's them, not the bloody star sign... I've almost become obsessed with discovering what star sign my friends partners are, and if they are an Aries are they like this? Guess what, no.
Rant over.... but more to come.
This thread is a life saver, I know that I am not alone and that if I write about my experiences, someone will 'get it'.
Thank you all. x