NPD / Abusive partner - Recovery thread

[IseeGraceAhead]

These threads were started last year by therealme though I gather there were excellent predecessors.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a diagnosable condition on the continuum of Personality Disorders. Few Narcissists are diagnosed, however: a person must either present themselves for treatment or be sectioned to ensure diagnosis. Narcissists are very clever, they generally avoid compulsory referral. Narcissists believe They Are Right & Everybody Else Is Wrong; they will never seek treatment as they find themselves perfectly fine!

Common misconceptions:

[1] You can't call someone NPD if they haven't a diagnosis. Diagnosis is unlikely for the reasons above. Even Narcissists agree it's reasonable to determine a personality type as NPD (see links in first post). If you are in a relationship with a Narc, you don't need to be a clinician to know.

[2] He's got Aspergers or BPD, or is just a bit shit at dealing with people. Really? The obvious question is: why would you want to devote your life to someone like this? On a more technical note: emerging evidence, via biopsychology, suggests that Asperger and NPD brains exhibit similar differences from the average brain. And BPD is the baseline for all other Personality Disorders.

[3] S/He isn't "bad", they're just very hurt. Yes, they are very hurt. The more insight you gain into this spectrum, the more pain you feel for the sufferer. If you have a Narc parent, it's almost a given that you've gained tremendous insight - it was a necessity for your survival. The important thing is, YOU are not the same or you wouldn't be reading this. And understanding does NOT mean you can fix it.

[4] S/He just needs loving care. Yes, they do. They need it like a junkie needs heroin. You can keep on giving, they'll keep on taking and it will never be enough to satisfy them. Never. They'll suck you dry (emotional 'vampire') and then they'll rip you to shreds, just because you 'ran dry'.

[5] I get that s/he's abusive, but why say they've got a Personality Disorder? There's a spectrum of disorders: some are more 'needy'; some more 'domineering'; some are just fucking strange. At bottom, they're no more or less than deviations from the average. Nobody would choose a disordered realtionship unless they suffer from a need to be their partner's therapist. If this is you, try reading some of the links below.

Bertiebotts - he rear ended a woman in a car.

Coming up to a roundabout -she should've moved out of the way, he saw the road was clear, he had looked for her

I kid you not.

You know what I've learned? The best way to regain control is to just let it go. Prepare yourself for anything and then it won't come as a surprise and when it does come just smile to yourself and let it go. While ever we are letting them get to us they still have what they want, which is our attention. Don't react, not to them anyway, and they don't have what they want and need. Easier said than done I know but I do find it helps.

My ex pays maintenance by cheque, he refuses to pay by standing order as he doesn't trust banks Total rubbish! Again, it's all about control. He gives it me the day it's due or a few days after, knowing I have to take a trip into town to pay it into the bank and knowing that it takes a few days to clear.

My ex had open access but he took me to court for contact! I have to ensure that my DD is available to him at the court ordered time but yet he will turn up late or change the time with little notice. Woe betide me though if DD wasn't ready for collection at the ordered time!!

That's exactly the kind of accident I could imagine my XP having too. He once almost drove into the side of a police car because he didn't see it coming fast up to the roundabout.

He also used to pull out too quickly and I'd shout and he'd say "So? If we had an accident it wouldn't be my fault!" So basically, it was fine of me or DS got injured, as long as it wasn't his fault! He was invincible, of course.

Bertie - are you sure we weren't married to the same man lol

Maybe, just maybe, they aren't narcissists at all, maybe they are just men! Maybe putting man with woman equals narcissist, a bit like a chemical reaction

LOL TimeforMe

Maybe its me and every other woman I talk to

God they are infantile - the blame and shame game is the stuff of playgrounds 'you did that....i'm telling on you'

The things my N has blamed and punished me for are out of this world unbelievable - so mad in fact (one being the sex of our second child) that you almost start to think that maybe he has got a point. Maybe I should have researched those natural baby gender swaying theories a bit more.......

Things just seem to keep going wrong for him too. All the time. N is convinced he attracts bad luck, that there's something special about him and that the universe is out to get him. Either the universe or me.....one of us two will get him in the end!

LOL! Well there sure is a lot of them about! Maybe, just maybe they are the 'normal' ones and it is us who are odd!!

Bottyburp, we were ALL married to the same man - and he's married to a few of the posters in relationships & AIBU right now! I'd so love to put them all in a room together - and film it.

I think I understand why I've let my appearance go so completely. It's connected with depression, sure, but I think the underlying feeling is that I need to find out who I really am. I've been defined by the family scripts and by 'countering' them - both at once, mostly! Always what they said I am, or the opposite. I think I only got fit so as to disprove my "fat, lazy, clumsy" label. Naturally, I didn't just get fit - I got ridiculously fit. Well, I'm not now! I'm dowdy, lardy, have hairy legs and my nails look Neanderthal. By the time I've 'done', I'll probably look much like an older version of what I was before - but I will know who I am :)

Feels like I'm stating the obvious, but my mad parents are the reason I ended up in so many N relationships. It was my idea of normal.

I'm curious about my sibs. Occasional remarks suggest they're coming to their own terms with our weird background, but they won't discuss it. The only time we've ever acknowleged it was when Dad died. I guess the only other time will be when Mum does. Sorry, this should have been in Stately Homes, really!

thenamehaschanged I read an article just today which said that narcissists stop emotionally maturing at the age of 2.5/3, that the body and intelligence grows but emotionally they remain a toddler. Tis so true in my experience. My ex used to throw what could only be described as tantrums if things did not go his own way.

My N thought he was an unlucky person too. Didn't stop him gambling though!

"threatened that 'I would never see the kids again'. He was unpredictable, Jeykll & Hyde"

"my ex N had no friends apart from one male friend who he adored"

"I can't wait until I STOP wondering if I may have got it all wrong, and he's a nice guy who really couldn't stand my hideous behaviour"

"I have been conditioned to excuse it all away as the 'understandable' stress he's under. And also for having played my part in letting him down and not supporting him enough"

"Even now thinking there's still a chance he might turn into a nice person one day"

thud
thud
thud
and
thud

Sounds like there's a bit of rebellion going on there IseeGraceAhead Are you happy with yourself? Are you happier now you don't have to keep fit, manicure your nails or shave your bits? If so then that's fine but if not then get the bic out right now and do it for you! Don't let the narcissists in your life shape you. You are a wonderful, warm and caring person, that comes across in every single one of your posts that I read. It really saddens me that such people as our ex'es and even parents can do so much damage. we have to fight back girls!!!

I like this site Grace narcissismfree.blogspot.com/ I posted a link to the forum earlier.

You're right, TFM, I'm not particularly happy to be frumpy ... but I am content to be me (even if I'm not sure who that is yet) and this is very new. I ain't rushing it, don't want to 'break' it! I go to the shops frumpy, and I DON'T feel ashamed. I used to.

Tell you what, we're all fighters

Sorry to hear your thuds, vanillapod - but glad you've found them, iyswim.

Thenamehaschanged, please keep posting here. Everything you (and the others) have said reminded me of my XN. The problems really came to the fore after DS was born, this is common in abusers, they are no longer no.1 and boy are they going to make you pay for it. The fact that at this time you are so vulnerable means that it is easy for them to shift the blame from themselves so you are bending over backwards and tying yourself in knots trying to make it better for the DCs and him whilst losing yourself bit by bit.

Emotional abuse is insiduous and so difficult to deal with that often in physically abusive relationships, the woman may precipitate violence in order to end the emotional abuse, this is what leads to her blaming herself when it happens.

Logic and reason will not work as often the Narc will completely invent a new version of the truth in order to excuse his behaviour. The fact that he believes his own lies makes it very difficult to tell when he is lying. For example, after our session at Relate XH and I went for coffee where he said that he took on board everything the counsellor said and it made sense and that he would do everything in his power to work through it in his own personal therapy to get better so that we could have a future. He then drove to his sister's house 20 minutes away where he recounted a session in which I dumped on him the whole time, he said nothing and based on that the counsellor said he was an abuser and that he would probably go on to physically abuse me and that the counsellor was either having an off day or hated men. I know this because he brought it up 2 months later. I reminded him of what had actually happened and he said, "Oh yeah" and that was it.

This was the version of events that he told everyone including his therapist. That and the fact that I was a mental, emotional, cold biatch. Quite a few times he tried to convince me that this was the case and I simply reminded him that others may believe him, but we both knew the truth.

Grace I'm not happy being frumpy either and totally relate there.

The fact we've all survived and are here telling our stories proves we are fighters

I do know exactly what you mean Grace. Since leaving him I have gained over a stone in weight, I don't like how it makes me feel but I don't dislike me either which at one time I would have done. I would have hidden under baggy clothes but I'm not doing that, I'm putting it out there! And I'm enjoying it. It's as though I am learning to accept me. I do know one thing, I like 'me' more than I have ever liked me, extra weight and all!! I'm realising that I don't have to be perfect to be liked, people like and accept me for who I am and exactly as I am, something he never did. i strived for perfection, to be the perfect partner in every way just to please him, to make him happy and in an attempt to get him to love me, approve of me. It feels so good just to be me!

Thanks Dione - I'm still here - I feel good here at the moment.

That's really interesting what you say....and I'm an emotionally cold hearted bitch as well so that makes two of us

I too have put on over a stone but I think that it's down to the fact that I can relax and eat. By the time I left I was 7stone, even the office joker had taken me aside to ask if I had an eating disorder. Ex has made comments, but as I tell him "it's a sign of contentment".

Three of us - over emotional controlling cold-hearted here too

For me, its the opposite way- I won't go out the door without my face on and I've gone from a size 16 down to a 10.

I was frumpy and boring because I was trying to be what he wanted me to be, to make the relationship work

Does that make sense?

T4ME - good for you, you sound great!

I'm a bit about much of that site, TFM, although therapists taught mesome of her 'tools' like cord-cutting. They have been very useful. Last time Mum had a rage at me, she started yelling about me "smirking" at her (instead of bursting into grovelling tears, I suppose). I explained that I was filling my invisible blue shield with compassion ... that shut her up.

I thought the page on PTSD & adrenal exhaustion was very good, though: www.narcissismfree.com/post-traumatic-stress.php. This is what my doctor explained when I broke down. It explains all the physical & 'nervous' symptoms and, although I'm doing the right things, I'm not surprised I am still unwell. I'd been living on adrenalin for 50 years. One thing she hasn't mentioned, being holistic and all, is that antidepressants (modern ones, not tricyclics &co) help to rebalance the neurotransmitters, thus taking some of the load off the adrenal glands. I do Reiki my own adrenals, though - I don't even 'believe' in it, but am not leaving anything to chance!

On the purely psychological front, I suspect my 'program' says I must stay sick until Mum dies (long, this is one for Stately Homes). That's why I'm "divorcing" her.

Oh yes, bottyburp, that does make sense!

X#2 had already started telling me I looked sexier with no makeup & glasses, that I worried about my weight too much (I didn't, I was so fit I burned calories in advance) and my clothes were too provocative. If I hadn't been so very very very over-emotional, possessive, irrational and manipulative, no doubt we'd still be together - and I'd be asking permission to wear heels.

Another thing that rang a bell was the 'gay thing'. XH loved it when people would ask, but that was because he was soooo vain. He would take much longer than me to get ready and he had a problem with getting older.

He would also get mysterious pains when I would be poorly. That ring a bell?

One of the earliest "lovely things" about xp was his fantastic cooking,and the delight he would take in coming over to mine after the dc were in bed and preparing a wonderful supper.

Then picnics.Cooked breakfasts,homemade cake,jam,wonderful bread,he'd catch fish...

Dd3 was4 when we met and I was so proud of having got fit and smart after having her,I ran and did weights.I felt at my physical best,having recently finished some more heavy therapy about my childhood.

Very gradually,he would insist on cooking...every night...cooked breakfast every day.He'd gone to so much trouble,it was a pity to be rude and not eat....I only had to mention a food or treat I liked for the cupboard to be full of it...

an example:I had amaretto in my coffee once and said how delicious it was....he bought a bottle - of the liqueur,not the syrup,and would pour far too much into every coffee he made - he started to make strong espresso many times a day just to give me some ,with amaretto in...I had to refuse,often,not wanting alcohol all the time.He would be very disappointed and unable even to appreciate how I couldn't drink it and drive......but that was early days...

Later,the cooking became something he insisted on doing...I am finding it hard to explain...he would do it and present it as a treat,I would try to explain how I had eaten already,or couldn't face such a rich sauce or whatever...particularly as he started to cook at the time I used to go out running,and expected me to eat,not run...it was all good natured...but felt controlling and odd..

I started to find it difficult to keep my weight down.I started to find it difficult to broach the subject with him.

Eventually,he was cooking all my meals whenever we were together.Presenting me with snacks and titbits all day.All done as "care and thoughtfulness"

Gradually,it became impossible to discuss any aspect of food/eating from my perspective without him becoming hurt and offended...then,later...he'd be angry and see it as me "kicking off".He'd be offended at how I was "throwing back in his face" all the care and consideration he showed through cooking .That line would always be followed by how little consideration and thought I showed him.He'd be offended,upset,furious.

He'd leave.Or worse,stay and rant for hours.

So I ate the food and gained 4 stone.

He'd pat me playfully on the stomach and say "not bad for a mother of 4" meaning the opposite.And then he'd mention how his ex was a size 8 and he'd never gone for a big woman before...

While this was building up - and even when it had reached it's worst - I remained convinced I was lucky to have such a man who was such a great cook,so thoughtful and so considerate.

I tried so hard to be good enough for him.

FFS