H using self help book in row

[onelastchance]

As some of you know from other posts, dh and i have been having a vry tough time.

I bought a couple of books, oe about anger management and one about emotional abuse. We have a weekly chat to discuss what we've agreed to read the previous week.

had a row (ironically about him not doing excercised in the book). It escalated s i was too upset to make u with him despite him making a few attempts. he then started ranting about it beig me who was abusing him and shouting really loudly all in front of ds (4). He stomed out of house and i could't help crying which then made poor ds cry too :(

H bought presents for me and ds in the evening to say sorry and if the shouting/ranting had ben a one off, i'd be ok now. trouble is, i'm pretty sure it'll happen again.

Am i being ureasonable for being upset about him not putting more effort into the reading and then refusing to make up with him?

Oh dear, I'm not putting things very well, OLC. What I'm trying to say is that if Frankl could choose how he saw his situation then you can choose not only how you see your situation but what to do about it. You have the opportunity to be free which Frankl didn't. If he could be free if only in his mind and spirit, you have the opportunity to be free in every sense of the word. You might see your relationship as a prison from which you can't escape but you can.

I agree with Grace, 'trying to' is terrible because there is an implication that you won't do it. And you can, you know that.

You can't sort out a job yet, right? So spend the time now focussing on the job you want and picturing yourself doing well in it. Really focus on your strengths and abilities. If I'm interviewing for a position I'm going to employ the person who thinks she has something to offer my company rather than the person who wants my job in order to feel a bit better (although getting the job will make you feel better - bonus!).

I may be wrong but I got the impression that with all your things to do you were losing sight of why you were doing them - to bring about your freedom. I was hearing about an illusion of action that wasn't bringing about any transformation and that almost sounded like a distraction from really facing up to what you want to do and who you really are. I've done this in my own life but when I remind myself of what I am and what I want to be then taking action doesn't even require much thought, it's just what amazing people like you and me do, right?

I totally agree with everyone about your h - he knows which way the wind is blowing re money.

Okay, have you thought about finding alternative ways of getting around? Taxis/ lifts from friends/ dial-a-ride. Is there a mumsnetter nearby who could give you a lift to the solicitor?

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
? Marianne Williamson (A Return to Love: Reflections on the Principles of a Course in Miracles)

(If you don't believe in God just replace it with words that feel right for you.)

Hi, sorry to butt in again.

I used to work at a County Court years ago - I don't think I am up to date enough to give specific advice, but during my time I issued over a thousand divorce petitions.

In some cases, amicable divorce, no issues then you do not need a solicitor. It can save a lot of money.

You, however, need a solicitor. Your H is already considering the divorce and trying to make sure that you do not see a solicitor. He is protecting himself. You NEED a good solicitor, get a good one, ask for recommendations and look for one that specialises in Family Law.

Of course he is telling you you don't need someone to speak up for you and who knows about what your rights are. If you were to divorce you would likely get a larger share of the house as you will have care of your son, plus you would be entitled to a share of his pension in the split, plus you would get 15% of his income for your son, under CSA rules. Also shares of savings, investments - do you know where the info on the money is kept?

He won't want you to know that! Knowledge is supposed to be power.

I am so sorry you are going through all this. I think that your H is now looking at exit strategies. Please consider doing the same. If it does all work out then that will be okay, but if it doesn't you need to be looking after you.

Excellent advice, wannabesybil. Good fences make good neighbours, and good solicitors make fair divorce settlements.

Onelastchance, I'm afraid it really doesn't sound as if he's going to "get it". You're engaging in the relationship exercises in good faith, wanting to learn how to treat your partner better. But he's using it as just another stick to beat you with. He doesn't want to change to make things better between you. He really has to know he could lose everything (well, a lot of what makes his life comfortable at least!) to make him open his eyes. I'm not saying "leave him" at this point, but I am saying "accept the possibility of leaving and prepare as if you were". Get yourself a real Rottweiler of a solicitor, and find out what you could grind out of the bugger if you were so minded. Just because you can squeeze him till the pips squeak doesn't mean you are obliged to, but it's a tremendous negotiating position.

I think the bottom line, as others have said, is that he doesn't respect you. That's why he isn't joining in properly in what he sees as your little games (of trying to make your marriage work!). And if he doesn't respect you, he will do you over financially, and convince himself he's being quite decent really with the crumbs he throws you. The one wise thing my barkin' mad teacher from years ago said to us was, "If you make yourself into a doormat, people will wipe their feet on you". This does not mean being aggressive. Aggression is a sign of weakness. You can afford to be ever so polite and nice when you hold all the cards.

H will, of course, then say you have spoiled everything and you clearly weren't serious about working on your marriage because you went and got yourself a solicitor "behind his back" and similar stuff to put you on the defensive. Then is the time to - well, tell the truth, in fact. You felt insecure as he didn't seem nearly as committed to the marriage as you were, and wanted to know where you stood if the worst came to the worst. You could lay it on a bit thick about how you'd hate it if the DCs only saw their father once a fortnight and what a terrible waste it would be if he had to move out into a bedsit/hotel and how it's brought it all home to you how terrible divorce would be - for him.

If that don't concentrate his mind, nothing will.

OneLast , do you realise its more than likeley hes already seen a soliciter ? I wouldnt be surprised if he has a nasty plan in place re finances . Have you spoken to womens aid yet ?

Your clinging on to something that just isnt there, you are not married and you do not have a husband in the real sense. Your seeing what you want to, instead of whats really there , its an illusion. There is no relationship.

You need to stop focusing on what hes said, or done, and start focusing on yourself. At the moment your looking for him to make you happy, and for him to love you. He wont and doesnt. While you still want him to, or beleive that he might, you will stay trapped there.

What if you didnt give a toss what he thought ? What if it didnt matter one bit what he said ? How liberating would it be to think your own thoughts and for your mood to be your own ?

Ive mentioned before that ive got a lot of twat books. One i read recently suggests that these men slowly chip away at your "self " until that bit of you is gone. Eventually your operating on only half full, like a petrol guage.

We know something isnt right , that were not " full" and we allow them to fill us , in fact we NEED them to fill us because were nearly empty. We take on their thoughts, allow them to dictate our mood, our whole thought process operates around them. We see them as the solution " if only theyd love us ect " when in fact , they are the cause. Imagine tentacles coming from his mind to yours, eradicating onelast and implanting his own bizarre perceptions.

If you were " full " you wouldnt need for him to love you, make you happy, complete you ect, because you would already be full up with yourself.

Thats all a bit garbled sorry, it makes much more sense in the book. I wonder if you need to stop focusing on him and start to find ways to feel good about yourself without relying on him to do it

"I wonder if you need to stop focusing on him and start to find ways to feel good about yourself without relying on him to do it"
I think that is what a number of us are saying in different ways!
spiritmum understand what you are saying about Frankl. Didn't mean to sound dismissive about the book in fact I meant that OLC was already in a better place than him and already had more choices if she could see them.
Totally agree about loving yourself as well. I just think taking actions at this moment in time (especially those to help her move away from the situation) would help more with that than "thinking" herself into a better place IYSWIM. She is already in a position where she can take action.
Agree 100% with wannabesybil as well. Get yourself a solicitor and get a good one! He knows he will get what he wants out of a divorce if you don't get a solicitor and he will probably hound you for the rest of your life if he doesn't have strict boundaries in which to operate. The only way you will get that is through the legal system.

Thanks for all your replies - mumsnet is great :)

I'm pretty sure he hasn't seen a solicitor, can;t see him having enough get u and go to even to that!

he's been fine this morning, made luch and has tken ds to the playgroud. H asked if wanted to go to, but i didn't.

Wanna, i was interested in what you said i'd ebe likely to get if we divorce. I wonder what percentage of house profts i'd get? I couldnt afford to buy anywhere myself (housed in my area are v expensive) but h would be able ot get a substantial mortgage.

yes, i know where all th money details are, he leaves all that to me.

This is not cast iron guaranteed fact but..

Quite often (remembering that I am not legally qualified and have been out of the loop) the parent with care can stay in the family home until the youngest child reaches 18 and then there is a split of the equity.

Starting points are usually 50/50 then shifted so that the parent with care gets more, perhaps 70/30. A good solicitor could get you quite a chunk. You are certainly entitled to a huge chunk of pension. Any asset ie holiday home, shares, inheritance acquired during the marriage goes into the pot and you are as entitled to a share as he is. I bet you half a dollar he doesn't want you to know that.

Can anyone recommend wikidivorce? I have heard about it, haven't checked it out and need to get my son to bed so have to get off now.

I really hope this is useful knowledge that you don't need, but I have misgivings that you are not going to get the love and support that you are needing.

Thanks wanna. When i saw a solicitor a couple of years ago they said that because so so much equity in our house (approx £200k), we' have to sell it and split the proceeds.

Dh signed a letter agreeing that my inheritance would be discounted if we ever split up - would that stand?

I dont think all the books in the world could fix this, I think you might need to look at separating

Hi runaway, not seen you on this thread before.

can i ask why you think that please?

Well back in "my" bedroom. Needed to call a friend and asked dh to bring laptop, etc up for me (cant carry things up th stairs atm) so he did.Now we won't see eachother til morning.

This isn't really a marriage is it?

Anyone there tonight?

OLC only you can decide that but i think you are ever nearer to making your mind up ,had a mixed day myself today but no matter how much tumult is in my life i know i am walking a better path now ,big hugs you are doin great,you are just at a crossroads and its tough to make the break,but make some phonecalls tomorrow start with WA x

Im still about onelast but off to bed in a minuite , didnt want you to think your on your own.

Your right, it really isnt a marriage. The problem is, your so caught up in this that youve forgotton about yourself, what you want ect.

Ive spent years staggering from one day to the next, just soley focused on EH, what he said, why he said it, what he thought, ect ect ect. There was no room for my own thoughts or feelings.

After i had divorced from EH i had a conversation with an old man i met whilst waiting for the bus.
He said he used to drive but had to give up due to age ect. I said i didnt drive , didnt think i could, and he was rather incredulous, why ever not !!!

He told me about his daughter , who had left her idiot husband , she packed her kids and her belongings into her little car and drove across various countrys to get herself home. She had no money, no training. Shes now a pilot married to a fantastic guy. His pride in her was evident and his eyes shone when he talked about her.

He was a loveley old man, but stated quite clearly, no one gives a shit about you , apart from your freinds and family, no one in the world gives a shit. Get a little car, go abroad , see the world, do it, make it happen.

Of course he was referring to driving but he was absoluteley right. I was a sahm, couldnt drive, never went out , no training, no confidence , no money. Not now !
I drive , im more confident , i go out and get pissed, im at uni training for a job that i once considered way out of my league. And im happy. I sometimes laugh until my face hurts, something ive missed soooo much over the years. I look forward to coming home , and im ok with my place in the world.

Do it onelast , make it happen. Think about all the dreams you had when you were a little girl. You CAN have that life you wanted. When did you last laugh until your face hurt ? Or stand in the rain , or just look at the stars ?

Life really is too short. I cannot stress my regret at having wasted so many years. Make it happen.

I've just looked at the womens aid website as i was about to call them. I've looked at the list about whether you are experience dv. According to that i'm not so feel silly calling them

Phone them !!!!!!Tell your story abuse comes in many shapes and forms ,you are not wasting anyones time,tell them the truth like what you have posted here,tell them the life you are living then come back and post how it went,big hugs you can do it ,deep breath and dial that number x

You ARE being abused Onelast. Womans aid also deal with emotional and verbal abuse , you dont have to be being beaten to ring them.

I just called and spoke to a lovely helpful lady.She agreed dh's bahaviour was abusive and she said it sounds like he has an inability to deal with emotional issues so blocks them out.

Well done you , i know how hard it is to make that phone call.

How do you feel now ? When i started saying it out loud it made everything more real somehow. How do you feel now ?

Dh just called me to check how dh got on at school. also checking when i needed a lift to physio and somewhere else. generally being very nice....

Well done onelast for calling WA. Full credit to you.

You do realise that his "concern" for you is feigned concern; its all designed to keep you in line. Its about power and control and his behaviour now is part of the nice/nasty cycle. That is a continuous cycle.

This relationship you have now is no legacy to leave your son. You and he can have a better life for yourselves without your H's malign daily prescence in it.

Thanks Attila:)

Idon't like ot think it's feigned concern though:(

WA gave me a local number to call too, for get some advice but can't get through atm. Will try again later

Also made an appt to see a counsellor next week

You've got started :)
Well done, onelast! Nobody's saying it doesn't take an effort to see the truth & get your life back - but look at Dignified's post. She's got joy in her life ... you can get that back, too. xxx

Dignified's post is inspiring ,just to say since split i dont have to ask if something seems odd or negative i instinctively know and act upon in,this is one of my greatest achievements ,infact on one occaision my X commented that i had"Gone all empowered"basically i didnt have that twat confusing me and holding me back,i was supporting myself emotionally and now i am about to start a little business of my own OCT 2010.Still have my wobbles but my life has absolutely definately changed for the better.
Well done you, 4 phoning WA and counsellor ,take positive baby steps everyday and you will get there x

Thanks for your replies :)

I did feel a bit silly at first when talking to WA but the lady i spoke to said the thing that concerned her was that dh tries to justify his rants by saying i "made him" angry. Also that he does it in front of ds:(. I told her that if i didn't challenge his behaviour he didnt rant or get angry.

She was also concerned about things fron dh's past which i talked about and said it shows his inability to deal with stong emotions and blocks them out.

Will try my local WA again tomorrow