H using self help book in row

[onelastchance]

As some of you know from other posts, dh and i have been having a vry tough time.

I bought a couple of books, oe about anger management and one about emotional abuse. We have a weekly chat to discuss what we've agreed to read the previous week.

had a row (ironically about him not doing excercised in the book). It escalated s i was too upset to make u with him despite him making a few attempts. he then started ranting about it beig me who was abusing him and shouting really loudly all in front of ds (4). He stomed out of house and i could't help crying which then made poor ds cry too :(

H bought presents for me and ds in the evening to say sorry and if the shouting/ranting had ben a one off, i'd be ok now. trouble is, i'm pretty sure it'll happen again.

Am i being ureasonable for being upset about him not putting more effort into the reading and then refusing to make up with him?

Good for you OLC it is quite difficult but has really made a difference to my life,with a little bit of practise it can work wonders its not about sweeping things under the carpet ,rather accepting the things in life you cannot change ,the times i am angry or over analytical these days just draw me down into a negative place OLC ,I can recognise this and stop myself it does me no favours.Stay strong and enjoy your week ,a lot of the time when we worry it is often unfounded we just have to break the cycle ,have you ever read the books by Susan Jeffers Feel The Fear and Do it Anyway or End the Struggle and Dance With Life .I find them very uplifting and help us to focus on the positive aspects of ourselves instead of negative self talk .Take care x

had my first appt with nw counsellor today - think she'll be helpful :)

Good for you OLC onwards and upwards !

Had my second appt with new counsellor yesterday. She thinks alot of our problems come down to dh's lack of "boundaries" and loack of expression of feelings.I tend to agree

Wondered if anyone else had any thoughts? TIA :)

how did you feel after the session?

what does she suggest you do about his issues?

why does she put all of your (plural) problems down to Dh's issues? does she ask you about your responses to these issues and help you to think how you can change your responses? or tlak thru your reactions to these behaviours of his?

because ultimately - you cannot change him - you can only change you and that is what you need help with..

what strategies has she talked about with you?

has she asked you what you do in response to them and asked you to think of other responses?

does she ask you to think for example "what would happen if you did xxxx or yyy?"

has she asked you to think about or write down his good and bad points and why you want to be with him?

when you went to see her did she ask what you hoped to get out of the sessions with her?

does she seem to have a "plan"?

She has said there mayb be ways to chnage my responses and has said he's very unlikely to change

When i first saw her i told her i wasn;t sure about the future of dh and i being together.

She said something about him needeing training but he mustn't realise he is being trained

"She said something about him needeing training but he mustn't realise he is being trained "

see she is putting it all onto you to make him change (be trained) .

and you cannot do that.

wonder where she trained at, which books etc she has read?

Cest - What do think she should be doing then? Are you a counsellor by any chance ? :)

no i am not so feel free to ignore - but i have done counselling and i know what helped me - one was NHS and was the first person to really focus on "me" and bring out from me what I thought and what i wanted long term - so i then realised the answers...i had spent so long acting to try and fix the relationship, keep him happy, etc... he controlled me...

the other ran a group session for separated and divorced she also did some individual sessions - a lot of CBT type stuff and very good advice.

see she is putting it all onto you to make him change (be trained) .

I agree with that and im also a little concerned that the unspoken message is that its you with the problem and you must change in order to make the relationship work , and im a bit about him needing to be trained.

Your H tells you that its you with the problem , its the way you react ect , and shes effectiveley agreeing with him.

Uummm, I'm not sure about it all either. Think i'll mention at the next appt we seem to be talking about him alot. I gues she's saying that if i want to stay i have to chnage how i react, as it's clear he won't change?

We had a weekly chat last night. He'd agreed to ask how i'd been feeling (about anxiety/taking ad;s) as i told him it was hurtful he doesn't. He still hadn't asked by meeting yesterday, i told him i was pretty fed up that he hadn't, despite all our conversations. He didn't say much - no sorry or excuses..

see this "weekly chat2 thing - mayeb ask counsellor about that, explain what it is you do and why...

it jsut sounds odd..

if it was good relationship and you had a weekly "date night out" - then fine -but this sounds far too formal...

a chat in which you dictate what he should ask you?

It's just a chance to talk about the previous week and discuss any issues. And plan the weekend, if not done

OLC - Through therapy you can learn how to change how you react, but not in the way you seem to be thinking.
Via therapy you may learn where your own personal boundries are and how to react if they are overstepped.
For example, right now, you seem to have no idea how it is acceptable for one partner to treat the other. You don't seem to trust your own judgement on what is acceptable and what isn't. You don't know what a good relationship feels like and instead are filled with constant angst and worry that YOU are somehow being unreasonable. Hopefully with time and a good counsellor you will get more clarity.

What would concern me is the line about 'training' your H. This is simply not possible. Change can only come from within the person. Perhaps you need to have a discussion about this at your next meeting with your counsellor. FWIW, I spent about a year discussing my H's behaviour in therapy as it was so awful (and I was a complete mess). I needed support to get through it and learn where my own boundries were. At no time during our weekly sessions did my therapist ever ever suggest that if I learnt to react differently to my H's abuse it would make things easier, or somehow 'retrain' him to respect me more. Thankfully my H was also having his own therapy and we seem to be getting somewhere at last.

I gues she's saying that if i want to stay i have to chnage how i react, as it's clear he won't change?

Id have thought it would be more productive to explore why your willing to accept this from him .However , i can understand where shes coming from in a way , he wont change so if you insist on staying with him youll have to drop your expectations , change your reactions so your not hurt by him ect .You cannot reasonably carry on insisting he changes when hes made it clear hes not going to. . If you dont like it , the options are to leave or accept it , i guess this is what shes getting at.

Re your weekly chats , i would put a stop to them Onelast , you are getting nowhere. Whatever it is you want , you wont get because he will withold it from you . You shouldnt have to ASK someone to ask about how youve been feeling , and by asking him to do these things you are handing over control to him. You ask him to " perform " these basics , he doesnt ( deliberateley ) , end result is you are left feeling hurt. Effectiveley you are setting yourself up for yet more hurt and dissapointment.

Having weekly chats where you have to ask someone to perform the social norms is absurd , either he is concerned about how your feeling or hes not . Even if he starts to ask you regularly , under duress and by being reminded constantly , it hasnt come naturally , you are haviing to ask for normal consideration, therefore even when you get it it isnt genuine.

Even if he starts pretending to be interested , youll know thats all it is, pretending. Are you willing to accept a pretend marriage to someone whos pretending to be concerned ?

Hi, OLC. I've just read this on a page linked from Stately Homes:

"The Scapegoat is accustomed to accepting blame for interpersonal problems, and she has been diligently conditioned to believe that if only SHE could do better, the challenges facing relationships in which she takes part would dissolve. Despite the fact that this is an unattainable state, she has only her family patterns to use as a template for her adult relationships, and she easily tolerates partners who are emotionally irresponsible and expect her to bear too many obligations or who give her the message that any difficulties are inordinately her fault."

This was very much my position, too. My first proper therapist, Tracey, was a wonderful woman who taught me many useful things about boundaries. As I altered my responses to H, he did react differently and I slowly started to feel more empowered in that relationship. If you'd asked me at the time, I would have said I was learning how to improve communication with him - Tracey said we were "abusing each other". This was true but she didn't mention the underlying dynamics, which were: I'm a scapegoat, you're a bully, let's get together and make some noise. By taking on all the responsibility for our relationship I was, once again, filling my 'blame donkey' role.

I'd recommend exploring this concept, first with yourself and then with your counsellor. I hope some of the other wise people on your thread will carry this forward with you :)

Thanks Grace, that's interesting.

I'll speak to my counsellor aabout this concept on Tues.

Interstingly when we had our weekly chat last night, dh thought we'd had a good without without any difficulties or disagreements.

Well i'd agree with the disagreements, but difficulties (confused)

should have been !

He came home with beautful flowers for me earlier to say he lovd me and i deserved them becuase of tought time with ankle. he's washing up atm

I was hoping the flowers were to say sorry for still not asking about anxiety/pills - evn asked him if that was why - he said no.

A while ago ended up horrible. watched corrie and saw image of possibly dead natasha. Asked him if that made him think of anyhng. he said yes, things from past - ie his gf killed herself. I then asked him queations about how he thouht of his parnts and how he saw himself and i was writing down what he said he didn't comment. When it got more difficult 9h thought i was laughing at him - i was n't) he then complained about me making notes wthout asking him/saying why. I said they ight be helpful in next counelling appt. i then said awful things to him about killing his gf and disabling me(something he did to me yrs ago may have contribted to how badly my ankl broke). Awful i know :(

Don't know what came over me last night - it was like all my anger towoards him and our situation cam out. he's out with ds atm and we're supposed to be going out this eve. No idea what to do - we've not seen eachother yet today

I apologised for upsetting him and he accepted my apology saying he knew i had alot on my mind atm.

Now i'm stressing about this eve. we're going out and he's not mentioned booking a taxi - i just want him to put some thought in to what we're doing - he knows that. he couldn've wriiten a note to remind himself. I've now booked it myslef (he doesn't know) as they get booked up so quickly.

onelastchance - may I be honest? I find your posts very strange and your take on life and marriage very strange.

You write down what your husband is saying while he is opening up to you.

You try to force him into asking you how you are, into making dates, into how and what to say to at specific times.

He gives you flowers, you twist that into bitter disappointment because it's not for the 'right' reason.

Your counsellor says you need to manage your reactions but you don't see that as a sign that perhaps you are expecting too much and reacting unreasonably.

I do not know whether your husband is abusive or not. I have tried to read as much of your posts as poss but I might have missed something important re his behaviour, if so sorry.

But isn't it possible that you have impossible expectations, are totally exhausting and your dh has withdrawn from you totally?

I think it is great that you are having therapy. I think you really need it.

thanks proudnglad :) You might be right about my expctations, i really don;t know.

Earlier i yawned and he asked me if i sill wanted to go out if i was tired. I said i had to otherwise he'd take it as a sign i didn't ever want to go out. Really all i've been anting him to do is book the taxi himslef (or see a note that he's reminded himself to do it - he said he'd write notes so he didn't forget things). he siad as i was in a bad mood, he didn't think we should go out. Si i've cancleed babysitter and now we're got going :(

I asked him if he'd booked a taxi or written himslef a reminder - no to both