Stressedmummy is back on line at last!!!

[stressedmummy]

Thank goodness!
We have had loads of problems connecting back up to the internet & H was having a few little tantrums about it this morning, but I am now back!
He was not as cross as he could have been regarding the wine, because I think I have got rid of most of the stain. I am now banned from drinking red wine in the lounge!

You see, I would re-write your sentence "however messy, stupid, frustrating, thoughtless etc that I may be, his behaviour is still unacceptable" as "however bad an upbringing he had, and however sad and insecure he is now, his behaviour is still unacceptable".

It IS a complex issue - I always feel very sad for your H in many ways, and I know you are perceptive and sensitive enough to know just what his own childhood will have done to him, and to feel sorry for him in his current plight.

But he is also capable of using your good nature, and his controlling compulsion, to wangle you right back round his little finger (except that now you are wiser to his tricks - so not falling for it!).

I also think that there are times when you can't meet the needs of two sad characters, and very sadly, in the case of choosing between DS and H, it looks as if this is one of them.

REally hard for you, SM. None of us would find it any easier.

But yes, even if you were those things (and I'm sure you are NOT) his behaviour would be way out of line.

Thanks Blu.
I use those words to describe myself, as they are words that he has used to try to convince me I am in the wrong. (Stupid for being careless & spilling things, thoughtless for not asking about his day, or dancing with his friend etc)
My ds's will always come first & he knows that.
I just need you lot to keep giving me a little push to keep me on track from time to time!
I am sure I will have my eyes further opened tomorrow at this freedom thing.
Anyway, thanks for your great advice.
I didn't want to start the talk last night until I had seen what you had to say, as you always talk so much sense!
I have tried to mail you, just to check if I remembered your e-mail correctly!
Let me know if it gets to you!

Such wise words Blu - i am so glad SM has your great advice to draw on

Yes, he is obviously saying those things about you in order to make you doubt yourself and your feelings again. Also, what I found with my boss was that he was very, very clever in that he was very insightful about people and knew EXACTLY what would hurt me most - knew what I hated most about myself, etc, and he then used those things against me and to manipulate me and to make me feel (even more) sh*t about myself. It sounds like your H is doing the same thing, so it is too easy to believe what he says and believe you are in the wrong. But as you say - even if there are frustrating things about you, it doesn't excuse his behaviour. Hang onto that thought!
Good luck today, will be thinking of you!

stressedmummy please buy that book.
This is quite a strong thing for me to say, but I believe that your husband, like mine did, is mentally & emotionally abusing you. I know it is deeply unpalateable thing to say but your anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that to me.
From what I can tell, your H seems to think that he has
a right to a tidy house,
a right to a quiet, peaceful house,
he has a right to your constant attention,
a right to say whatsoever he so chooses to you regardless of your feelings,
a right to administer discipline to your children without any consultation with you etc etc etc.
He does not perceive that you and the children have any rights at all unless it suits him to bestow them upon you.
As long as your H continues to believe he is entitled to all these things & that his life works so well because all of you in the house are doing what he wants - he is not going to change his behaviour. Why on earth would he? He's got you exactly where he wants you and the house running on his terms.
None of this is your fault & you can modify your behaviour this way and that - but it is not going to change him.
Please, please get the book.

hey SM!
I have e mailed you!

I am a bit embarrassed to say this, but I am concerned that as my e mail address gives away my whole name and place of work, I don't relish the idea of your H finding it and getting in a rage with people who are supporting you. Can you always delete my messages?

You see I'm nervous of your H and I don't have to live with him!!!!!!

And thanks TessieB, and SM, for being so nice about what I say. . I told DP a little bit about why I spend time on MN, and about your thread SM, and he looked aghast and said 'If only they knew what you are like to live with!'

It's ALL so much easier to talk about than DO, isn't it? I think that's why things like counselling and freedom training can be so useful because they can give yu practical tips in the 'doing'.

Will be thinking of you this afternoon, SM.

XXXX

Your little boy is very beautiful Blu!
Lovely wavy hair!
Don't worry, I always delete your mails before H would ever see them & your last mail is already deleted!
Just got back from my freedom training & this week was very helpful to me.
It was all about the bully & I found myself nodding my head to a lot of the examples they were giving.
These were things like, does he sulk, shout, smash things & glare. All of which were a yes.
The woman doing the talking saw me nodding & asked me for examples, to which I told her about him smashing the christmas decoration last Christmas, because it was on the floor & throwing the presents around, glaring at me if I say or do the wrong thing whilst in company, behaving the way he did during my pregnancy & birth, with ds2, threatening to cut of my internet access if I didn't call out & pay for a carpet cleaner for the mark on the carpet (they all gasped in horror at this!) & a few other bits too.
I can't believe I talked as much as I did, as I was very quiet last week, but I guess it all seemed so relevent!
The social worker running the group thought he was more than just the bully & had bits of other kinds of abuse in there too (the controller, the jailer & the mind worker, are 3 that spring to mind)
I was also alarmed that I was hearing gasps of shock from women in, what I class as far worse situations (being beaten etc)
Feel I got a lot out of it today & have things more in perspective in my head again!
Next weeks session is covering the bad father, so I am going to do my best to rearrange both my counselling session & work ours around it, so I can go.

stressedmummy, this group sounds so helpful. Well done you for finding it and attending. It really sounds as though it is showing you that none of this is your fault.
Big hugs to you.

Thanks bugsy
I feel a bit stressed now I am home, far more than last week, but it is because I talked this week & am realising how bad things really are.

I am gobsmacked - honestly I am! When I first started reading your thread you barely dared open your mouth to the SENCO and your HV - and look at you now! Full participant in freedon training! WEll done, SM. I am sure that your being so clear like that would have been tremendously helpful to the other women there - did it feel liberating or strengthening to tell your story and have that level of recognition and agreement that you are enduring a lot?

The other categories of abusiveness sound interesting. It all makes sense, it's a very clear picture of what he is doing and the way he is causing damage, isn't it?

Next weeks session sounds crucial, too.

Blimey, it's a lot to be taking in in a relatively short space of time, isn't it?

Good for you!

I do think making him change is a job that can only happen if he gets serious professional help. I think he is way beyond being able to respond to you, however strong you are and however much you stand you ground.

If he is interested in making that journey, you could always leave (get him to leave) on the understanding that you can have a re-think (with no obligations, obviously) once he has learned to have an equal relationship. I think it's going to take him a while to get started on that, never mind make progress, and childhood is so short.

Thank goodness you spotted trouble and sought help when you did, SM. You know for yourself how long it takes to face up to problems and take it all on board. it's going to be a MUCH slower process for him.

But as for you - you go girrrrl! And give yourself a gold star, on the chart!

Actually, SM, I wonder if he will have the motivation to help himself if you are still around?
It may take losing you to make him face the truth about the help he needs.

What I mean is (very slow exhausted brain today..) in the long run you might be doing him a favour if you leave. A bit like 'tough love' rather than 'enabling' alcoholics.

I know exactually what you mean Blu & you are probably right. He will need something drastic to make the changes, if it is possible for them to happen.
I will post properly later, as I have an extra child back for tea & a very demanding, over tired ds2! (Not what you need after a tough afternoon!)

No, indeed. Look after yourself...take 10 mins in the garden with a cup of tea when you can.

xxxxx

Well, ds2 is now in bed & ds1 is tidying away his magnetix, which are all over his bedroom floor!
I didn't get to drink tea in the garden, as it is raining, so am settling for a cold diet coke & a sit on my computer chair!
I did find it strengthening to talk about some of the issues & hear the others responses, today.
Apparantly, the woman who runs it, didn't think I would come back this week, as I was so quiet last week!
My HV came along with me again (apparantly, her DH is getting quite a complex about it all!) & say's she could even accompany me again next week, if I can make it.
I feel a lot stronger again for going & it has made me realise that it is not all me & things are quite obviously very wrong.
They said that it takes a lot of emotionally abused women a long time to recognise that they are in abusive relationships, as it is not as obvious as physical violence & the men are very good at turning the tables to suit them.
On Tuesday night, after the talk, he almost had me believing I was to blame again, but now I feel that maybe I am not & for abused women to be reacting with shock to my stories, things must be pretty bad!
I think he has gone out for a few drinks with his mates, after work tonight, so have no idea when he will return.(They mentioned them leaving the house & not telling you where they are going, or when they will return, when talking about the bully today!)
Anyway, one child down & one to go before I can relax a bit & take it all in properly.
at giving myself a gold star on the chart, Blu!

"They said that it takes a lot of emotionally abused women a long time to recognise that they are in abusive relationships, as it is not as obvious as physical violence & the men are very good at turning the tables to suit them. "
That's why I think you are doing so well in getting to grips with it all in such a short space of time. AND starting to stand up for yourself and take his nonsense with some perspective.

Another gold star on the chart!

LOL at cold diet coke.

Am still in office - must get home for last remnants of Willy--wonka story, and make emergency stop-off for apple juice.

XXX

That was a long day Blu! Bet you are exhausted!
I think I have moved on a little from how I was a few months back & all these little things are giving me more & more strength & understanding of the severity of the situation.
Thanks for keeping me going!

SM yes it does take a long time for emotionally abused women to realise it, for exactly the reason you say. In the early days when I used to think about or try to talk about my boss, it was all so fuzzy in my mind and I couldn't pinpoint anything specific. Even now if the subject comes up and I tell someone about it all I can say is "He used to niggle at really personal stuff all the time...take my word for it, it was horrible." The fact that he was sacked for abusive & threatening behaviour gets the reaction but telling what he actually DID is really hard. Esp as it was all so personal to me and others wouldn't necessarily understand it. Plus they are very clever at isolating you from people, my boss had me believe that those who worked around us weren't to be trusted and thought badly of us (us being me & my colleague who also worked with him) and even turned me & my colleague against each other so we wouldn't talk even to each other. It was obvious he was a bad boss and doing a bad job, but as far as we knew, the people with the power didn't think so.

It's really hard, isn't it Lizita?
I remember attending a child protection course a while back & they covered the effects of emotional abuse on the child.
It made me think a bit, because the description of the emotionally abused child fitted my ds1 perfectly & I even said something about them describing my ds, while on this course. However, I still didn't really accept that this was happening in our life.
Looking back, I had such BIG warning signs from when I very first had a relationship with H, way back when I was 18 & 19, but stupidly thought he had amazingly turned into this different man, 4 years later!
Just before we seperated for the second time (when I was 19) his behaviour was really bad & looking back, this incident is really quite shocking & disturbing.
It was the reason I didn't have any communication with him for 4 years & cannot now believe I was stupid enough to think it could have been all down to maturity & he would now be a changed man!
It doesn't look likely that I will ba able to swap my work days around next week, as I am having trouble finding anyone to have ds2 for the morning on Monday, never mind the whole day (the person he normally goes to is on holiday) so it looks like I will have to phone my HV & tell her I will have to miss next weeks session, unfourtunatly.

Oh no!
SM, if I wasn't leaving for hol on Monday, I promise you I would be down your way in a flash to look after ds2.
What can we do? I know it has to be someone he feels comfy with....

Oh bless you Blu!
Off on holiday again! Lucky you!
Can't really do much about it ATM & the annoying thing is, the woman I work with asked me before I left today, if I needed to swap my days this week & because of this, I had to tell her I would leave them as they are.
Can't even speak to the SENCO (who obviously knows the situation) because she is off work, after having a fybroid the size of a football removed!

I know! I'm packing in the hols as this is Our Last Hol Ever!
DS starts school in Jan, and I'll be camping from then on. And now DP has decided he hates camping. Lookiing forward to it, though!

ooooh Noooo....would the woman you work alongside do some reciprocal childcare? Can you contact her? What about your Sister? (I suppose she is working). I don't suppose they provide a creche for the training, do they? call and ask your HV if they provide a creche? THEY MIGHT - if one was needed....call her and tell her your problem...she will help if she can, and if she can't no harm done!

They do provide a creche at the place I go to on a Thursday, but to get Thursday pm off. I have to swap around my half days & it is normally swaped with my Monday afternoon IYSWIM?
Haven't found anyone to have him Monday morning yet & it will be almost impossible to find someone to have him all day.
The woman I work with doesn't know about my situation in full, only that I am seeing a counsellor.
Can't think of a way round it ATM, other than taking a sicky & even that is not ideal, as I would then have to go & pick up ds1 from the school I work in!
My sister is a definate no, no, as she works full time.

Oh yes, of course - I forgot that bit when I started to think about it...Urgent dentist appt instead of sickie, and you could turn up to collect DS1 talking through one side of your mouth as if you had had a filling? Start out by complaining of toothache earlier in the week and asking if anyone has a paracetamol handy? Then refuse the offer of a cold or hot drink because it sets your tooth off.

I think this is a bit dodgy though, as they pesumably know by now that there is somethig you do on Thu afternoons. You don't want to lose trust from the people you most need to suport you. So take no notice of my bad ideas!