Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

Oh no :( I'm so sorry to hear your update.

However, there are a couple of things in it that not only highlight how he was only paying lip service to change in the first place, they show him as actually controlling and abusive.

He thinks so little of your needs that he utterly disregards what you have agreed and comes round because he fancies it, despite knowing that you didn't want him to. He thinks you are way less important than him and your feelings are not valid.

When you're sitting downstairs crying, he makes no attempt to console you, and instead walks off and leaves you.

He's talking about you behind your back. And I bet he's doing it to his friend who dislikes you, and most other people you know as well.

The one with the waking your DD up to brush her teeth is the worst in my eyes. It's not only horrendously, deliberately undermining (he knows you've done it, he's trying to make you doubt yourself) it's cruel to your DD, waking her up to brush her teeth when she will know that she's done them. It will confuse her and mess with her reality and that is abuse of her. Frankly, if my DD had eaten 3 creme eggs and then I'd put her to bed and I actually had forgotten to brush her teeth wouldn't let DH wake her up to do it, one time won't hurt! (DD doesn't do this BTW as she's only 9mos and hasn't even heard of creme eggs yet before I'm accused of being a bad mother!)

When things didn't go his way he ran away again.

You mention that you're younger than him and I wonder if that is something that comes up a lot in your relationship, he's assumed the "older wiser" mantle and uses it as another way to look down on you. Age difference should not mean that he automatically is right and you are young and naive and wrong. My DH is 7 years older than me and if he tried to look down on me because of my age I'd laugh at him. We're equals, otherwise what's the point?

It looks like FIL has downgraded his status from "spineless wimp" to "lying manipulative git" as well. At least you know not to engage with him at all any more.

You seem resigned to MIL and FIL coming round to your house this week, and I don't understand why. They don't have any rights at all of access to your DD. You have no obligation to let them into your house. Your H doesn't have keys either, so he can't let them in. If you let your H take DD for the day (not yet, I can't stress enough that you should only allow supervised access for now) then he might take her there then you can't control that, but for now, they have no rights. If they turn up, don't answer the door. If they tell you they are coming round at a certain time then be out. They have no rights. Your H is living away at the moment, he doesn't have the right to invite other people to YOUR home.

I can't say to you enough that what is happening to you is not normal. It is not normal human interaction, it is interaction between a normal person (you) and three people who wouldn't know normal or sane if it crammed a banana down their hole (thank you BBTB for that wonderful image).

Did you keep up that solicitor appointment for the 1/2 hour call? If not, pick that up again, ring around some other solicitors, get back on to the CAB and start making plans as if you are seperated. Ask him not to contact you for a few days and in that period of no contact (use that period to get all your ducks in a row and know where you stand, don't tell him that's what you're doing) then talk to him calmly about access and so on. This doesn't mean you can't go to relate, but do it from a position of strength.

Keep repeating to yourself:
I am normal
My feelings are as valid as anyone elses
I am reasonable and calm.

Because all those thing are true, it's the people around you who are insane

Redeeming features -

In between the arguments he is:

Kind
Thoughtful
Same sense of humour
Potentially more lust than love in our relationship.

I don't know about the unconditional love. Hard to tell until she grows older perhaps. He is so focussed on punishment, but the his Mum still has the stick that she (I think only occasionally) hit DH with above the kitchen door. He won't be laying a finger on my DD. He's mentioned smacking already. I've just thought that it was MIL feeding this to him, as she talks a lot about discipline etc...

Lordy this man is soooo in need of counselling.
Has the toxic in-laws book come yet?

Sorry, just seen your update about the punishment.

That is really really worrying. We talked about your MIL when your DD hits the terrible twos, but how is he going to react? What happens if she doesn't respond to the naughty step (I know a child who, aged 2, sat on the naughty step for 3 HOURS, just sat there with a defiant pout on her face and every time she was are you ready to say sorry she said NO...it's not the discipline magic that I heartily wish it was), how will he deal with her then, will he start shouting at her? How far does his ideas on suitable punishment go?

She's 1 as well, what on earth is she "getting away with"? She's not old enough to be being naughty yet.

He is starting to sound really scary. Keep yourself and your DD safe.

Lucky - thanks for your post - I have to call the solicitor back still - stupidly left it on Monday. I need to wait for DD to have her afternoon nap so I can have the time and the quiet!

Abuse of DD I didn't think of it in those terms. God. I'm 7 years younger than DH too.

The punishment thing's been bandied around from around 3 months I suppose - when she would cry for ages (he hate hate hates noise at any level above a quiet talk - except when it's him doing the shouting.)

No to toxic in laws - says it's been dispatched! I could read the foreword and first few pages of the book on amazon as you can have a preview. Frustrating because it looks so helpful.

I suppose in the same way it's hard for him to see his mum for what she is, it's hard for me to accept that this is a man who has fathered our beautiful daughter.

Are there any circumstances that the behaviours with DD are acceptable? i.e. just over zealous parenting/planning the future?

OMG. He has so many rules and regulations that I'm shocked you're not a nervous wreck. Can you even breathe?
25 years old is way to young to be putting up with this crap, but it's also old enough to still be young enough to have not have wasted your life. IYSWIM. You really need to get out.
Someone once told me that you can only be treated terrible if YOU allow it. My XP treated me like he did cos i let him. It's your choice how you want to be treated.

Waking up a baby to brush her teeth, even though she has brushed them is NOT acceptable, the poor little thing is going to be tired, disorientated and have no idea what is going on.

Threatening the naughty step for crying is equally unacceptable. Full on toddler tantrums then possibly, but at 3 months?!? Thats really scary. When DD was 3 months, it took three hours of yowling before she went to sleep every night. We both would spend hours pacing up and down our room cuddling her or rocking her moses basket and singing songs. It had nothing to do with her being naughty, and I think if DH had suggested punishment or that she was being naughty and I was letting her get away with it then I would have punched him. What is your DH going to do, put her moses basket in the naughty corner until she says sorry?

I don't want to be harsh, and I know this isn't easy for you - he's your husband. He's not all bad or you wouldn't have married him! But from an outsider perspective at best it's him having absolutely no clue of how children are (and no willingless to learn) and at worst he is treating her like an object who needs to comply with his needs or be punished.

And his mother displays the stick she beat him with? I wouldn't be letting her have unsupervised access EVER and I would be telling any access courts about that. It's bloody terrifying.

Yes Sassy I have let him treat me like this. It's all a bit pathetic really because I'm really a strong, determined and balanced person usually. I'm ambitious, I've done well in my job etc. Just not so well at the one of picking a man to have a child with.

Would you all really worry about leaving DD With him? I usually trust my gut instinct - and I've never been worried. Well I was anxious when she was v little - but now it would never cross my mind not to leave them alone?I feel to bad for even asking a lot of people on the internet that question tbh. Although he talks about punishment when she's older he's never actually DONE anything to her other than the one shout in the middle of the night. (and tooth brushing I suppose) It sounds so awful when I write it down that I worry I skew it. We do have laughs, and nice times. He is kind and will often bring flowers home etc. It's so confusing.

They display it and laugh about the stick. When she was three months he would discuss punishment in that : if she does this when she's older than I'll do that. There will be a battle of wills between DD and MIL adn DD and DH because she's very independent and knows what she wants!

WE look like such a normal family from the outside. He has to go now, and stay away for a long time. I do believe he has learnt what he has about childrearing from his mother. It would take so long to undo that, and I don't want him to have that influence on DD while he changes (or for as little as possible anyway). If I think we disagree as parents now, the divide is only going to get bigger as DD gets older

It's not pathetic sweet. They get you in a state with their controlling and manipulating ways. They mess with your head until you don't know which way is up. I was strong, that's what helped me walk away but they are clever about it and undermine you and make you doubt yourself and your ideas.
Your eyes are being opened now and i very much doubt he can close them again.

No Sassy he definitely can't.

And Lucky - don't worry about harsh. It will do me good. My DD's health and safety is paramount- I'm just upset I didn't see this earlier or worry about her more.

I left because of my DD. I'd put up with all the crap but i couldn't bear the thought of putting her through all that. I was 26.

Oh LOTN please don't doubt yourself

Your H and his family are the ones with the problems and issues not you.

But honestly you need to be strong for your DD.

I couldn't stay and let my XH put the DDs through anymore and as sassy says, a friend of mine kept repeating "but he only does that because you let him" and eventually it sank in.

So similar Sassy - thanks so much for posting. It's nice to know others have gone through the same and come out the other side.

Why will she be having a battle of wills with MIL? Your MIL has no right to discipline her and if she so much as looked at that stick then I would have her up on assault charges.

You do talk about your MIL as if she had some parenting rights and you've been conditioned by her and your H to believe this. She doesn't. She has no rights to any form of relationship with your DD and your DD is not going to feel the loss of this dreadful woman in her life. No grandmother is better than evil grandmother, so try and start thinking in those terms. Your H can, in the future, when he has access to your DD, facilitate their relationship on his own time, but never feel bullied into you keeping up access with MIL for the good of your DD, because it's no good for her at all. In the coming weeks, if MIL doesn't see her at all...so what?

And you are strong. You have come so far and you just need to realise that you are a good person, and you are doing the best for your DD.

Spookily so LOTN. My xp was 32. He was one of 3 brothers (didn't you say your H is?) Is he the middle brother?

My XP was one of 4, but 3 boys. He was the oldest.

Oooh, that middle bit could be read wrong. I meant HAVING no grandmother is better than having an evil grandmother, rather than there is no better grandmother than evil grandmother :)

Sorry Sassy, you've gone through much worse with DV etc didn't mean to put us on the same level.

I disagree. Mines over.......yours isn't.
Remember my best friend comment from before? She is nearly 2 years into putting up with shit (he wasn't violent) and at the moment she is in his home country (muslim) with no way of getting her kids out without his say so and he's just got drunk and stamped on her head.
I'm not saying this will happen to you, just that you don't know what might happen if you try to make a go of things. it might turn out ok (although i don't believe this) but it might get a hell of a lot worse..........I doubt my friend saw this coming.

Botty - thanks I don't think I know anything other than doubting myself at the moment! I need other objective adults to tell me I'm doing the right/wrong thing - how needy is that?!

DH is one of 3 - he's the eldest though.

Lucky - I do know that having no paternal GM isn't going to harm DD. I honestly thought like that to begin with - i.e. couldn't care if there was a relationship or not, but DH can't contemplate continuing our relationship if DD doesn't have a relationship with MIL I think. That's sort of what he's said in the past anyway. If I had it my way then I'd have MIL out of the picture because she's poisonous and I think better no influence than evil influence as you say. I think when I meant battle of wills, I meant sort of 'look dgd I've bought you a fairy outfit, put it on' Where DD would refuse, and MIL would get upset/irritated. If there were a whiff of her telling DD off/punishing her etc, she'd be out of there in a shot and not going back and only seen on supervised visits. They might bully me, they will NOT bully my daughter.

Sassy - your poor poor friend. That's awful. And so hard that you can't help her/get through to her. I suppose these abusive relationships have a starting point....

I've told her to leave. I've never told her that before, cos i always thought it has to be her decision....when she is ready. She is also under strict instruction (i begged her) to keep the peace (no bringing it up again, act like you've forgiven him) and just get out the country when the holiday's up.