Help me have a good relationship with my MIL or DH and I will split

[TheLastOfTheNappies]

I have posted before last year for the back story see first post here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/828190-Another-MIL-story

Basically an awful relationship with MIL - she caused such a horrible time after teh birth of my daughter and made everything about her. DH hasn't made things much better by discussing me/undermining me with his Mother just to avoid a confrontation with her.

The trouble is, I think it's effecting my mental health now. It's certainly effecting our relationship. There have been incidents since that first post that always take us back to where we were last september.

I am always expected to forgive and forget, to move on. But I can't do that anymore. I actually feel physically sick that my MIL is touching her, I want to limit as much contact with her as possible as I feel so wound up/tense/hysterical when she's with her. I didn't start off like this! Im not an overly over-protective mother. I don't go over and see them anymore, DH takes DD to them, but he complains that it's never long enough, not enough time, that she's cried (that's because she's anxious and mummy isn't there I expect, it's sensory overkill when she does visit)

It was her first birthday yesterday, today DH and his parents and other relatives/neighbours are having a little tea party for her. I'm not invited, it hasn't been mentioned. I know I don't see them at the moment, but I do feel odd that my child's having a party that I'm not part of. It's like they have always wanted me not to be there.

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just think that DH and I are so close to splitting over this. He doesn't see anything that I cite as unreasonable, and not I know that I'm being unreasonable too. I just can't stop these feelings. I don't see how I can play happy families with this woman (which is what DH wants). He expects me to paint over everything. I suspect the whole situation has been made worse because he also believes his mother over me when she is outright lying.

How do I move on from this? How can I accept that she is my daughter's Grandmother? How do I make these relationships work?

TIA

LOTN - I didn't think you were sharp. I just thought you sounded quite down with the realisation that things may not get better despite the promising start.

It must be really hard when he keeps letting you down.

I think the thing about you coming to his senses says it all tbh

Obviously nothing will change whilst he is complicit in it.

He should be at least trying some sort of compromise like going to MILs-with you-for a limited time.

If anything this separation seems to have let her get her claws further in.

You would think the threat of losing you would help him at least try to stand firm but she seems to have him convinced that she is the only one on his side.

She does not have a right to see your daughter-as for the sleepover, tell him to fuck the fuck off-and some more.

Thanks everyone - it's so hard trying to balance whether to give him another chance and whether to just leave now and save myself the bother.

I think I do know that I should save my energy for my daughter and let him try and work his mum out for himself. I know that I don't ahve to hand DD over to MIL, but realistically what reasons do I have to keep her away? She doesn't harm her and although MIL and I aren't equals, DH and I are. This is the argument he had with me. He wouldn't stop me taking DD to see my Mother (not for want of trying though!), so how can I stop him? I don't feel comfortable with it but if we divorced that would be what happened I suppose.

diddl - I'm with you on the sleep over. I'm not sure what planet they live on but it's not the same one as me!

LOTN - you are going to have to balance whether you can accept that your MIL will see your DD if you and DH split. If you split, he will likely take her over there on his own, but that's what he's angling for anyway, so you have to decide if that's something you can live with.

It killed me at the start that now EX-MIL was seeing my kids without me there, but then I realised that I didn't have to see her anymore, and that was a weight off my mind. And then came the day that XH wanted to swap a weekend because it was her birthday and the whole family was having a party and he wanted the DD's to go..... oh the pleasure in saying I DON'T THINK SO ESPECIALLY SINCE DD2 HAS TOLD ME SHE DOESN'T LIKE GOING TO GRANNYS BECAUSE GRANNY SAYS NASTY THINGS ABOUT ME

What goes around comes around.

Funnily enough, haven't seen the witch since long before we split and saw her today in my local Tescos. Almost felt sorry for her, she looked terrible. Almost.

Sorry I can't be more positive.

Oh and I still remember XH face when I said, over some request his mother had made that really was nuts and didn't suit us "Just tell her no it doesn't suit"

But, no one ever tells my mother no.......

botty - what was the final straw for you or was it a gradual realisation that nothing was ever going to change?

I really don't want the world to revolve around me - but I'm made to feel so demanding and unreasonable about simple things that don't agree with MIL (ie me going to DD's birthday party!!). When DH had to go alone to tell his Mum I was pregnant I suppose that should have told me that she was central and I dread to think what he'd have suggested had she not approved.

Do you think H sees you as his equal?

You can't stop H from taking DD to MIL. But you can say when that will be. If you agree with H that he can see DD on his (one) day off, then he can take her then. But I do think that you can reasonable ask him not to take DD for the time being. The reasons you are able to give are exhaustive -I should imagine- i can't read through the whole post again but off the top of my head......the fact that she refuses to call your DD by the name that you BOTH decided to switch to, the fact that she makes plans with the family and leaves you out (you're the mother ffs) the fact that she sees it as her right to say when where how long she should have DD for. She is completely unware of her hierachy in the family chain and of yours. The problem with your H is he doesn't HEAR your point of view. So what do you think will make him?

LOTN - honestly I can identify with so much of what you say.

What it was for me was a number of completely nutty incidents where I KNEW I wasn't being unreasonable or unfair and was being told I was.

Also, MIL and FIL, and indeed the rest of the family, belong to a very full on version of Christianity (trying to be charitable lol) which I don't agree with. XH didn't used to either, but a number of years ago he got "saved" and joined up as a fully paid up member.

Some of the attitudes this 'religion' supports are completely off the wall and totally nuts and I saw him not only imposing them on me, but also on the DDs, especially DD1 and that I could not allow.

There were also other issues to do with he and I which I don't want to discuss.

Also, for the record and in the interests of complete truth and openness, he ate a banana.

And I remember thinking I hate the way you are eating that fucking banana and I am going to ram it right up your hole.

At first I was quite pleased to see more about special nanna lainey whatsherface. But having read the thread I now just have one piece of advice.

Bin. Him.

Imagine the relief of not having all this. Most people don't have to produce reams of written notes to get their thoughts in order. These people are attempting to run rings round you and they've succeeded in making your head spin.

The texts you found quite clearly say to me that your H will say anything to you - whatever it takes - so that you'll 'come to your senses'. This means fit in with whatever keeps his mum sweet. He simply can't cope with displeasing her, full stop.

Whether this is understandable or not, it doesn't sound like he will be able to change without years of therapy and a steely determination.

Since he clearly doesn't have the latter and sees no need for the former, honestly, just save yourself.

Yes you will have to hand over your DD for access visits and, no, you won't be able to control what they do. But you know she will be safe at least and you can provide a solid, loving relationship that shows her how people should behave. As others have said, as she gets older she will probably become reluctant to visit your mil because she will see her for what she is.

Sassy - that's a very good point. My XH never saw me as his equal. And he never listened to what I had to say - he would pontificate and decide and walk away when he had decided the conversation was finished.

DameGladys - I agree completely. The relief I feel from not having to deal with all of the nuttiness is unbelieveable.

And I cannot believe looking back that I tolerated it for so long, nor indeed just how nutty it was. I think of trying to post some of it on here and I realise I would be called a troll on the 2nd or 3rd post it is so mad.

Yes v good point Sassy - although I do know that he will tell me that I'm being very unreasonable to bring all of those things up! MIL and DD need to bond despite what MIL does/says to me or calls DD. I have reconciled myself to the fact that they will go over together on access visits - it's got to be better than living like this.

I question my thoughts and feelings all the time - and DameGladys you're right, I shouldn't have to write them down to get my head in order. I have FIL calling me saying one thing and probably meaning another, reporting to both DH and MIL, I have DH saying a few things I want to hear, then taking them all back and reverting to type. As I have said previously in the thread, I am calmer, and generally happier when he's not here. When I think back over some of things he's said, he has just been coming home and repeating what his mother has said to him.

botty - didn't mean to be intrusive. Of course there are parts that you don't want to talk about. The banana made me

Of course, DH doesn't see me as his equal no. He comes home, asks me what I've done with my day, then asks for minute detail, even if I've remembered to brush DD's teeth. Then he sighs and says he's going to have to go in and wake her up to do them again in case I have forgotten even when I said I did?!! Things like that just make me feel stupid. I am younger than him, but he's always treated me like a child I suppose. I don't understand him, and he doesn't understand me. We are two different people.

I'm with you on the relief. I would go back and do it all again- i'd have to, to get DD out of it. (The real love of my life) But i would leave as soon as that sperm hit that egg! :o
It took me years to get over all the shit. I was an absolute mess- like i said i stuttered, I'd shake when i had to meet new people (I still have bad nerves now). But I met the most fit and gorgeous toyboy a year later and we are still together 8 years on. He used to hug me when i cried and tell me over and over how gorgeous and special i am, until i began to believe him. I'm 35 weeks pregnant now with his twins and i can't wait to do this properly. Ie, in a loving relationship and happy at being pregnant instead of feeling trapped and dreading my life. My DD has know him since she was 2 and can't remember any different and calls him dad (at her request) and although she still sees my xp, she recognises him as a control freak and doesn't go out her way to see him more than she has to.
I played a blinder by never stopping her from going, never calling him and never making her go if she doesn't want to. He has scored an home goal in trying to control her (she can't have a pink coat cos he doesn't like pink) and by calling me. Bad move....she's a total mummy's girl.
I'm sooooo glad I left. So, much so, that I don't even feel bitter.
Imagine if that was waiting for you.

When my XP got a mental illness (delusions of persecution) the doctor asked me if XP believed i was in on it, (symptoms=paranoia, believing someone is out to get you) i had to answer no, cos XP thinks i'm too stupid!(he told me this)
Yet i'm the one with a degree and a post graduate qualification.......go figure.

"Of course, DH doesn't see me as his equal no. He comes home, asks me what I've done with my day, then asks for minute detail, even if I've remembered to brush DD's teeth. Then he sighs and says he's going to have to go in and wake her up to do them again in case I have forgotten even when I said I did?!! hmm"

OMG-don´t waste anymore time on him.

LOTN - Its not that I would mind telling you, its just that I prefer to keep some of what happened shut in a box in my head, its easier for me to get on with the rest of my life that way, I spent a long long time reliving some of the shit that went on and it wasn't helpful for me.

Sassy - I so get what you're saying on this. I have sat back and waited. Never stopped them going to their Gran's even though it breaks me to hear that they were there, never ask them about their time with their Dad, what they did, where they went etc. Now I'm getting "dont want to go to Dad's it's boring he never doe anything with us he just sits on the computer" "I don't want to go to church with dad".

Have you ever heard the phrase pick your battles? He just picked the wrong one with DD1 - she has an activity she does which she adores and is her reason for getting up in the morning. She is 11. He has said that he doesn't want her to do it anymore. No real reason, except that I know it is because he can't control her while she's doing it.

Bad move. He is so pushing her away with this and he is so far up his own importance and so immersed in his own XHland (as I call it) that he can't even see it.

PS That banana, its a bugger lol

LOTN - I don't know what age you are but I am 40. I tried for 20 years.

My advice, honestly, and I know this sounds harsh.

Take your daughter and run like fuck away from him and his family and never ever go back.

Sorry

why the fuck would you wake a kid up to brush its teeth.

your dh is seriously fucked up.

in your shoes, i would turn my phone off - fuck them all off for a week and make them sweat.

work out your finances, know where you stand, see a solicitor, cab, ring shelter regarding your tenancy agreement, lock changing etc.

get yourself another mobile phone, change your number

start to take control of the finances, know your bills, your incomings and outgoings, get hold of some money where you can.

you can still remain in the marriage at this point if you want to ( though i dont know why you would tbh he's a nutter)

in your shoes - i would be telling him not to expect me to be all reasonable, he would have to go through a solicitor for access - so its laid out on law when he can see his daughter. if in that time he chooses to take her to his Mums - then that's up to him, just like you take her to yours in your time, but her needs are non of your concern - you don't give a shit.

if he starts to crawl and cry, and you want to stay - i would make it an explicit condition that he attend councelling.

tell him hes a fucking nobhead ( be more subtle) and you want to show him infront of another person that how he behaves is totally not normal.

if anything i would be worried for my daughter being influenced by such a fuckng insane bunch of tossers

I second everything that custardo says. Except you're not there yet in your head.
You believe you have no right to do this. That he is equal to you and even MIL has rights. Unfortunately this kind of kindness and courtesy smells like weaknesses to certain types of people ie, your H and ILS.
And they will not bow down to your reasonableness for 2 (or more reasons) You are not their equal (in their eyes) and you can be manipulated.
You only need to be a bitch until they come to realise that you're not putting up with this anymore.

For the record my MIL and FIL are the best IL's in the world. I love them to pieces and they will drop everything for DD if i ask. XP hates them and all and they only get to see DD because i take her.

The teeth brushing thing sounds mad, the wanting minute detail of your day sounds controlling. This isn't normal husband behaviour, most blokes switch off by the time you're half a minute into telling them about your day unless it directly affects them. (Must admit I'm not much better re listening to him).
I'd refuse to give more than a brief summary, you don't stop having a right to privacy in your life just because you get married.
"What have you been up to?"
"Pottered around, went to shops, made some cakes" should be all the detail he needs.

Yes you're all right. I think as custardo says - if he turns his act around and I want to stay then I can, but in the mean time sort my life out.
I don't think either he or his mother will go quietly though.
I think the teeth brushing thing is about control - making me feel inadequate because of course I couldn't be trusted to do that. He will sort of sniff her too to see if she's had a bath! She doesn't have one some days, no, but it makes me feel like I should give her one religiously every day. He's obsessed with a naughty step too. Tells her she won't get away with this or that when she's older, and he will be the one dealing with punishments because I'm too soft (why he's thinking about that I don't know). Friend at a party gave DD a chocolate finger (as you do with children, under our supervision for choking of course!) - I smiled and thanked friend, DH whispers that DD WON'T be having these on a regular basis, etc etc. The list goes on.

If it was my husband he'd then start getting excited about the cakes. I wouldn't expect him to want any more detail about the shops unless we were in debt or I was a shopping fiend which I'm not, or to want to know details of kids bedtime routine unless I brought up a problem/ something different they did.

Has he any redeeming features?
Why did you marry him?
There must be something good about him.

Oh dear, he´s sounding worse & worse!

TBH-he´s sounding like he shouldn´t be alone with her!

He seems to be already treating her the way his mum treats him.

Does he really love her unconditionally, do you think-or is she in danger of disappointing him?

The thing about punishments is something I´d expect from my 80yr old father!