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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it possible to have affair but stay happily married/attached? Pls be honest.

528 replies

MabelMay · 14/07/2010 15:02

Hello All

I really need your honesty and experiences/opinions.
Without going into too much detail as I do wish to remain as anonymous as possible obviously, I have recently found myself falling for someone other than my DP. We have had our problems in the past, DP and I, but we have two lovely little kids together and I've never really been distracted by another man since being with him (8 years). Until now. Recently, after some months of feeling unbelievably attracted to this person, I've found out he feels exactly the same. I feel like I'm on the precipice of something. I have such strong feelings for this guy and have not felt this happy in years. I really want it to happen and yet I know you'll all think me stupid/selfish/naive/etc. But please tell me: Have any of you ever managed to have a brief fling/affair without it destroying your other relationship? Or know of anyone who has? Is it crazy to even think this can happen? I say brief because he is leaving the country for good at the end of the year... am I mad?

OP posts:
MabelMay · 07/10/2010 20:44

I did listen, ilovemyteddy - and I did try - for a bit. I just wasn't strong enough to stick at it.

I fell for him more than I could ever admit.

But I did listen.
And I still am!
MMx

OP posts:
Wordweaver · 07/10/2010 21:02

Mabel, so sorry not to have been around when things came to a head. I work from home and it just went crazy recently - haven't been on MN for weeks. But I have read through what happened and am so glad you had support and understanding.

ilovemyteddy, I think you are wonderful.

I don't have anything new to add to all the good advice and support you've had - only to say I am here too, offering a friendly face - if you can do that over the internet!

I think you know that I can empathise with at least some of how you must be feeling. I'm so sorry.

But this now draws a line in the sand. It was one thing when it was your choice not to make contact. Now he is basically saying it's in the past for him - that's reinforcement - that'll help you not to go back there.

Keep posting - I am sure it will help to have a place where you can keep working through it.

proudnglad · 07/10/2010 21:04

Just read whole thread.

Of course you are human and are obviously not a bad person and are in turmoil and I sympathise.

But. Affairs are absolutely devastating to children. I speak from experience. If you had gone ahead with this and they found out (extremely likely somewhere along the line) or worse it blows your family apart they will never forgive you. Or get over it.

Do you understand that?

Be so, so thankful that this guy put the brakes on. Trust me on that.

londonartemis · 07/10/2010 21:42

MM You have my total sympathy; also your regret about feeling you never really got to say what was on your mind.
I think it is important to recognise as you put this all away in the box for good, is that he probably did love you, but knew he couldn't and shouldn't have you, and he made a decision made from his head more than his heart. It's a tragic theme that runs through literature, opera, art. It's agony to you I know. I don't think you should ever confess to your DH, and the fact he doesn't know allows you to grieve alone without pulling the rest of the family into it. Come and post when it's awful, and in time it will hurt less. Lots of love.

Rachyandmeg · 07/10/2010 22:40

Hi Mabel,

So where is this guy now? and are you working things out with your husband.

Rachx

MabelMay · 08/10/2010 09:33

wordweaver it's good to 'see' you again. I actually thought you must have rolled your eyes in despair once you realised I was back in contact with the OM and had just given up on me. Which would have been totally fair enough given all the encouragement you gave me to stay out of contact.

proudnglad - didn't you used to be proudnsad? I'm glad you're gladder! I remember you posting early on in this thread, warning me about what affairs could do to kids. I always thought that I'd be able to do this without them ever finding out or feeling the repercussions. Like ilovemyteddy says, falling for someone outside your primary relationship brings out the most selfish side of you. Certainly it did (still does) in my case. I just didn't want to hear the bad stuff. I couldn't imagine how something that made me feel so good could possibly turn out bad.

londonartemis - i loved reading your post because it made me feel better about how the OM might feel about me. But if I'm honest I'm not sure he did/does love me. He was/is quite a bit younger than me. I don't think he knew/knows what he feels. I find it hard now to believe that there was love from him because of the way he talked about it/us when we saw each other for the last time.

I got an email from him this morning. I couldn't believe it and didn't want to open it at first. I'd woken up feeling okay and didn't cry in the shower for the first time in days - so I didn't want this email to ruin that. Then I thought actually maybe he just wants to open up in a way he couldn't in person; or maybe he's changed his mind... But it was the strangest most emotionally cold email and I wonder why he sent it. He said he'd come and say goodbye before he leaves the country (January), and he signed off, "Peace out". Peace out??! Oh, how very casual. Arrrgggh.
I thought of you, iz and what you said about your OM's emotional intelligence. In a way the emotional backwardness of OM's email here has made this morning slightly easier. Even though my heart sank when I realised there were no confessions of love, no further explanations, no signs of regret...

I don't get it. Honestly, he's like a different person to the one I've 'known' for months. But in a funny way i think that will make today easier.

I'm going to be such a good mum today, I really am.

I know I'm going to have good moments and bad moments and that it's all going to come in waves.

wordweaver, ilovemyteddy or anyone - on a slightly different note, did you see a few posts ago my DP's explanation of his freak-outs. Any thoughts on this? Still doesn't justify it, right?

and ilovemyteddy yes you're right i didn't listen although i really took everything on board i really did.

OP posts:
MabelMay · 08/10/2010 09:45

...you're all going to think I'm a complete idiot for falling for someone who signs off his emails 'Peace Out'!

Honestly, I didn't recognise him from this email. Perhaps he was making a point...

Enough mulling. I'll go get on with my day, as much as I can.

MMx

OP posts:
izquierda · 08/10/2010 10:08

Morning MabelMay and other friends on this thread

Sorry I didn't come back yesterday was busy - but have read the recent messages and there is a hell of a lot of good sense being talked on there!

A few more thoughts from me FWIW - firstly I would have recommended Baggage Reclaim to you myself as I found it helpful and thought-provoking when I was going through the misery that you are going through now. Very, very good on the no contact rule! I even printed off some pages and kept them in my handbag for easy reference when things were particularly bleak.

I feel the need to reiterate the suggestion you speak to a counsellor. So much of this trauma I feel is fuelled by the dialogue you will be having with yourself, in your head. For me, stating the problem out loud to someone made it "real" and got it out in the open. I think there's a quote from Shakespeare "Give sorrow words". Also what worked for me (and I only saw the counsellor about 5/6 times) was having to be "answerable" to someone else e.g. I found I didn't want to go back to her and say I'd broken the NC rules, I sort of needed that self-discipline re-introducing back into my life.

You might then at some point be able to move on to joint counselling with your DP. I noted with pleasure that you had at least been able to start some discussions with him.

I empathise with a number of points you have made - yes it is an addiction, yes at times you think am I having a breakdown? One of my assets is a fantastic memory, which serves me well in many parts of my life but as regards OM it is monumental curse because everything, but everything - places, cars, songs, you name it, reminds me of him and for me this is the very hardest part - trying to forget.

When I was at my lowest ebb my dear friend ilovemyteddy emphasised to me that (as she has to you and it is sterling advice believe me) it is not "you" that OM is rejecting, but the situation. She also pointed out that now is the time to concentrate on "you" as best you can given your commitments to other family members. You have to do this to move forward. Look after No.1!

So a few more hints and tips

As others have said, do a few little things each day for yourself - treat yourself to half an hour with your feet up and a nice hot chocolate and your favourite magazine; have a little conversation with a shopkeeper, just to be friendly and pleasant; do you have a friend you've not seen for a while - call them up and have a coffee; are there any interesting local attractions you've not been to for a while - an art gallery, a museum? Start using your local libraries; buy some bulbs and plant them for springtime; buy a paper you wouldn't normally read...

Something that has helped me is to have organised some little projects to do jointly with my DH. I needed to get back on track with him and to begin with it was a case of "fake it till you make it". We have done a gardening project together, we are going to give our garage a major clear out, we plan to spend some of the dark evenings sorting out piles of family photos over a glass of wine - might all sound a bit simple and dull but just this sense of "working together" seems to help.

At first, you will do these things, all the time thinking - I'm only doing this to keep my mind off OM and it's not working, but keep at it and it will work! And one day soon you'll find yourself thinking - gosh, I actually enjoyed that/learned something! I know some of this might sound a bit trite and woman's-magazine-advice-page-ish but it has worked for me.

A couple of books I have found helpful

Sarah Ban Breathnach - Simple Abundance - gives suggestions for each day of the year of nice things to do for yourself and your surroundings - really uplifting and life-affirming. And by the same author - Something More - about women's quest to find meaning in and enrich their lives.

And I found this only this week in the library!

Paul McKenna & Hugh Willbourn : How to mend your broken heart - Bantam Press 2003 - only just started looking at it but it looks to have plenty of good advice and NLP exercises to do.

MM and friends, I have gone on far longer than I ever intended to but hope some of this might be of help. The key to it is to look forwards now not backwards and focus on the lovely worthwhile person that is YOU!

abedelia · 08/10/2010 10:10

Well, hopefully that will help... the blinkers are now off and you are staring to see what he was really like.

In situations such as this it IS all very teenage, what with the level of selfishness and self indulgence. Think back to some of the relationships you had then - so exciting but then after about 3-4 months the love mist clears and you start to notice those odd remarks, the weird opinions and habits etc. Then you realise that actually the person you fell so in love with is an arse!

It works both ways, too - think back to how you presented yourself to him. Were you honest about who and what you are, like you are with your partner after so long together, or did you embellish bits of yourself and hide others so you seemed more attractive?

Point is, if you are truly honest with yourself it was all built on sand - unreality, smoke and mirrors, and expectation that everything would be like a fairytale. If you had gone ahead I doubt it would have lived up to the hype. (peace out? Can you imagine a night out with him and his mates???) Coming down from that hurts, but I'm glad you have and wish you luck...

abedelia · 08/10/2010 10:12

Sorry, just re-read that and the selfishness / self indulgence part seems harsh, which was unintended. I was just trying to say that as a teenager, everything is a drama and that's ok as you don't have responsibilities to anyone else.

MabelMay · 08/10/2010 10:20

izquierda thank you, thank you so much i'll read and make a note of everything you say and definitely those books sound helpful.
will come back when i have more time i'm going to try and be super super busy today.
It's so true about all those bloody reminders - everyWHERE! can't bear to listen to my favourite CDs of the last few months coz every time i listened to them in the past i thought of him. Our bloody kitchen that i obviously have to be in every day is full of reminders... ugh.

abedelia yes fair point. but just something about the email didn't ring true. i wasn't that blinded by love/lust. but i'm going to ignore it. i almost feel like he was making the extra effort to be over casual. altho' a lot of what you says makes sense. i feel like i knew/know him better than that. anyway, no more looking back - no more looking back... god it's hard wish i'd never opened that stupid email.

okay. now i'm really going.

feeling so much stronger today.

OP posts:
FrogInAJacuzzi · 08/10/2010 10:21

You sound a bit more positive today Mabel. Maybe the rose-coloured glasses are starting to lose their powers! Your OM is just a bloke, not Mr Wonderful. I doubt that he's deliberately making a point, you're probably just seeing him in a more realistic light.

For what it's worth, I think a lot, if not most men, aren't particularly emotionally intelligent and can compartmentalize more easily. In his mind, this is all over already. This knowledge will help you move on too.

It may help you to see him one last time but only if you are sure you can keep your emotions in control. It may also just set you back again. If you do see him, have everything you want to say written down, so that you don't forget. If this will help you with closure then possibly think about seeing him.

There's lots of good advice on here - keep busy, keep faking (at least in front of the kids), make lots of lists. Allow yourself periods in the day to brood, feel miserable but be strict and when the hour or whatever is up, carry on with keeping busy etc. I've been where you are now and it DOES pass. You feel so raw now and the pain does feel physical. It's a slow process, don't have unrealistic expectations, and don't even expect a steady, forward progression - there will be days where you feel like you are back at square one again. Those days become fewer though and eventually you will reach a point where the worst of the pain has gone and you hadn't even realised it.

In my case, I was the one breaking off with the OM. It was also an emotional affair, but we both had very strong feelings for each other. It just about tore me apart but I'm still standing and I'm a lot more self-aware now. So it has been a learning experience, I had counselling and I had to acknowledge some things about myself that weren't very pleasant to take on board. I'm dealing with my marital problems now, and I know that if my H and I decide to end the marriage it won't be because I was running off to be with someone else.

Keep posting - one of the worst things about these situations is that there are hardly any people in RL to talk to.

izquierda · 08/10/2010 10:29

Abdelia, I read your post thinking "hmm, tough love" but you are spot on! I had lots of crushes in my teenage years and this EMA had many resonances of those. I kept thinking, I'm 50 FFS not 15! Now I realise my blinkers are off and I see OM for what he was! Laughing now - used to think sun shone out of his arse, now realise he simply was an arse! I was attracted to him because he was a go-getting successful self-made entrepreneur. Yes but from things he said along the way, would have sold his own mother if he could make a profit and was happy to trample on and over people to get ahead. I was totally blind at the time but now cringe at the memory of things he said. We were utterly unsuited and a proper relationship would have failed very early on. Thanks for your dose of realism! Don't mean to hijack MM's thread but it's real progress to get to the point when you can see the other person for what they are.....

Wordweaver · 08/10/2010 10:30

Oh Mabel, no, I would never roll my eyes like that! I have been in a very similar place myself, and if you are anything like me, your own self-punishing thoughts will make you feel worse than anything anyone else can say here. I wouldn't dream of adding to that. I am just sorry that you are going through this painful time.

I'm not one who has no sympathy for someone with a hangover just because it was self-inflicted.

I think that it's fruitless to think of yourself badly for falling for someone who signs their emails 'peace out'. The truth is that every single one of us is a mixture of the sublime and the ridiculous. We look at those we love through loving eyes, and therefore (ideally) we accept them as they are, daftness and all.

Obviously a couple of things have changed - his need to present himself in the best light to you, and your willingness to see him through loving eyes.

It's a hard, hard wake-up call, but it's the start of coming out of the state of heady, dizzy highs and crashing lows that you have been going through.

I remember that feeling of coming out of it like coming out of a sort of all-consuming drug-induced haze. It was like having a very very cold shower and shaking the droplets off and gasping and hating it and yet suspecting that a huge sense of relief was there as well.

You were talking about your DPs explanation of his freak-outs. I think it is very interesting and fairly insightful of him to describe it so visually and identify an early memory of that behaviour.

I do think that in describing walking along with his mum like that, he was actually describing another symptom of his fears, rather than the cause. Perhaps he needs to explore that in counselling or in some contemplation/reading of his own. Perhaps not. Either way, that is HIS story. He is not justified in making it your burden.

Just to make myself clear - I think it is good that he has expressed these memories and been searching for explanations. But those are ultimately just words to express his feelings. What counts now is what he DOES about his realisations and discoveries.

If he carries on just the same as before without attempting to heal/mend/address his inner fears, then all that he has effectively DONE is to put pressure on you to accept his behaviour because it has its roots in his childhood.

You are not there to carry his personal burdens. You are his friend, support and partner. That means you help him to carry his own burdens - you enable him to feel stronger and braver.

You obviously care about him very much indeed, and your instinct has been to help him, reassure him, support him.

Perhaps the best way of supporting him now is to point him in the direction of something that will help him to take responsibility for his own behaviour? I think this would be something that would do him a lot of good in the long run, although it may be hard in the short term.

You know him best. You know whether that means counselling, internet reading, book reading, a thought diary . . . whatever route he takes, he has to take a route. He has been stuck in that place on the pavement, waiting for his mother to turn around, for too long.

Using his image, I think that he needs to go back to that pavement as an adult, take his old self by the hand and start walking along again. He is the only one who can do that. Trying to make you do it CANNOT work.

I hope that this is coming across in an understandable form - I have had a couple of very clear experiences in my life where I did exactly that - went back to the child I was and realised that I could help her/protect her myself. Very healing. But I realise it may sound like crazy talk to someone of a different character!

(I come from a very 'alternative' town where this kind of thing is the normal level of conversation overheard in cafes etc, so I do realise it may not make sense to everyone. Feel free to roll YOUR eyes!)

ilovemyteddy · 08/10/2010 12:08

Hi Mabel - I'm so glad to see that you are getting so much fabulous advice.

Hello Iz xx. I love your phrase "I used to think the sun shone out of his arse. Now I know he is simply an arse." Grin

Wordweaver - thanks for your comment up thread. I really can't add to anything you've said in your last post about Mabel's DP and his walking down the road with his mum explanation except to say that I totally agree with you about DP needing to go back to his childhood and, as an adult, love and support his childhood self. My counselling threw up a lot about my life as a teenager and I was told to talk to and support my teenage self as I would do to my own DD. It worked brilliantly.

Mabel - you sound so much better today. I think it was good that you opened the e-mail and that you could see for yourself the emotional distancing that is going on with OM. Take a leaf out of his book and start moving away too. Abdelia is spot on about looking at how you presented yourself to OM. I think that was one of my hardest lessons - I realised that I had presented myself as something that I wasn't to OM. So the dishonestly of lying to DH about who I was talking to and what I was doing was doubled by the fact that I was dishonest about who I was to OM. Does that make sense?

I know exactly what you mean about things reminding you of OM. I had loads of things - songs, places etc. At first, when I saw the city when OM lives on the weather map on the TV I was a wreck! I tackled those things one at a time and learned to stare them straight in the eye. There is one band that I still can't listen to (two years after I ended my affair) but I will conquer it.

Frog is also right about the way forward not being a steady progression - I wish someone had told me that! Somedays you will think you haven't made any progress at all. But it will pass.

Celtic's advice from yesterday about doing things that make you like you is brilliant. Sometimes the most painful thing about all this is the self-loathing. I think the fact that so many people have come onto this thread to support and help you should give you a boost - because we can see the lovely mum and supportive partner that you are. You may have lost that good feeling about yourself.

So go and treat yourself to something nice!

proudnglad · 08/10/2010 17:36

Yes I did used to be Proudnsad but it was a ludicrous name I picked when I was pissed!! Proudnglad not much better but at least describes my general vibe more!

God did I post earlier? Bet I said exactly the same thing! I am always banging on about it because I feel so, so strongly and I want to try and influence people who have been injected with lust drugs and give them a figurative slap in the face. iyswim

I am glad you're feeling marginally better and am so relieved nothing happened - you will be too I promise.

londonartemis · 08/10/2010 18:35

MM - Please delete the e-mail from him and delete his address details in your contacts book. Do it whilst you feel strong (as you sound) today. Don't re read it, looking between the lines. It is easier to get over someone who irritates you or you see in the cold light of day, so strike while the iron's hot, not when you feel morose and vulnerable.
The others have good advice about looking for the nice and positive things in life. I am sure you feel there is a void that is rather unresolved in some way, but living very much in the present, makes you make the most of the moment you are in.
I didn't mean my last post to give you false hope or anything, but I just meant to say that things are more complicated than being starkly black or white, or good or bad. And keep posting! Again, lots of love.

abedelia · 08/10/2010 21:11

Iz - it was my H who had an affair! I'm taking this from what he says and how he describes it (though I've had slight infatuations myself in the past, like most people).

As Frog notes, he also said that the minute he put the phone down on her after telling her it was all over and he could never see her again - not even as a friend when their old workmates met up - in his head, it was all done and dusted and he didn't think of her romantically again; his opinion of her just plummeted as she was begging him to keep it all going but he just thought she was immature and was shirking her responsibilities to her child and H [pot, kettle, black, anyone?]. It happens...

MabelMay · 09/10/2010 07:47

londonartemis, I can't delete his details. I just can't. Not yet.

Woke up this morning brooding on it.

How do you go from confessions of near love, of saying you can't stop thinking about someone, of saying you felt hit by a thunderbolt when you first saw them, of missing someone and being desperate to seeing them to fucking PEACE OUT? In the space of just a few weeks. Literally. Theses are texts I've found from mid-September.
I'm deleting them now...

Perhaps abedelia has just given the answer. These are the questions I should have asked him myself I suppose. I never did. I'll never bloody know.

But like so many of you have said, I should just be grateful that he put the brakes on. Don't feel grateful now.

Okay, so I'm obviously having a bad morning!

I don't have much to feel proud of right now obviously but it's all relative isn't it and the ONLY thing I've done right over this whole bloody saga is that I didn't sleep with him the last time I saw him. I could have. The opportunity was absolutely there. But I stopped it.

I'm going to stop obsessing now.

That's the last WHY? WHAT IF...? post from me.
I promise.

I'm just thinking out loud. Was driving me mad at 3 in the morning but have a busy day ahead so I hope that'll start me looking forward.

sorry to sound so pathetic. can't believe i'm giving myself a pat on the back for not sleeping with him when a few days ago all I wanted to do was spend the next few months doing exactly that!
did that sentence come out right?

OP posts:
MabelMay · 09/10/2010 07:48

sorry...garbled early morning thoughts. MMx

OP posts:
MabelMay · 09/10/2010 07:57

i'll write more thoughtfully later regarding so many of your thoughtful posts. thank you.

OP posts:
proudnglad · 09/10/2010 08:01

Mabel, maybe you don't have much to proud of but you didn't sleep with him. One day (soon) you will be sooo relieved about that, you will weep.

Now, re the obsession - think of it like an alcohol addiction. Have you seen the brave babes thread on here? The best advice running throughout from the OP is 'just stop, you are in control, you are responsible, you can do this if you really want to^.

Keep busy. Think of your children, how they deserve a mother who's 'present', who need your attention.

If he comes into your mind, shake him out of your head.

That's not to say you shouldn't post on here about your feelings - what a great outlet - or speak to confidantes in real life to work through your emotions but now's the time to start metaphorically slapping yourself in the face.

MabelMay · 09/10/2010 08:30

You're right, proudnglad. I have just apologised to my DC for being grumpy and snappy and now I'm letting them get the paints out (which normally would be a big no-no this early in the day). Guilt, guilt. I've just done the proverbial slap 'round my face too. Ouch!

I'm aware how selfish and spoilt my previous post came across. I just don't have a clear-cut explanation in my head to take with me and move on with. But I have to find a way to accept that that's how it is.

I'm sure you're right, proudnglad about the not sleeping with him bit. In my heartbroken stupidity the next morning I was lying in bed (my DP was away, as he so often is) regretting holding back - wishing I'd had sex with him. To give me something "to hold on to" was how my mind was thinking of it. Something to remember him by and have him remember me by. I totally romanticised it rather than seeing it as something cheap and sordid.

frog - it is lonely, you're right, there are so few people in RL you can talk it through with. Which is why I keep spilling my guts here on MN.

wordweaver thanks so much for your thoughts on DP - am tempted to show him your post but don't know how I go about that without revealing all so perhaps I'll just plagiarise and pretend it's all from my own head!
We had a bad row yesterday. I think that's why I'm in a negative frame of mind today.
Must go.

oh and ilovemyteddy you're totally right - and i think that's what's so seductive about affairs and the OM in situations like this. You get to go back and present yourself as the person you might like to be; absolutely I gave the OM a version of myself that is not totally real. But at the same time I suppose he brought out other sides of myself that my DP doesn't really see or necessarily appreciate... so I suppose there's that element too.

OP posts:
Wordweaver · 09/10/2010 12:20

Hope you are having a lovely morning with DC, and have been able to think about things other than OM.

I used to find it so exhausting - as others have described - that being reminded of a person in tiny little ways ALL the time. What I was wearing, what song was playing, what time of year it was. It's all so completely knackering. I still get reminded occasionally, as I expect you will, but it does fade.

I've been thinking about your DP saying how happy you have seemed to him lately. Also, although you described the big blow-up rows happening once every six to eight months, you seem to have mentioned that you've had another row a lot lately. Whether that's because of you or him aside, something needs to change. Like others, I think you could benefit from counselling, both individually and together.

Take care of yourself. I will try to pop on again later but am a bit of a headless chicken today as I have to get self and reluctant DP ready for a dinner dance tonight. Sitting here in curlers looking like Nora Batty. Hoping for Cinderella-esque transformation later, but have my doubts.

ilovemyteddy · 09/10/2010 13:05

Oh crap - I just previewed without posting and lost my message.

Wordweaver I'm sure you'll look wonderful tonight - just remember to pull up your Nora Batty stockings :)

Mabel - hope you had fun painting with your DC. Enjoy them - they grow up all too quickly.

There is possible explanation about why OM went from hot to cold so quickly.
He felt guilty about having an affair with someone who had a DP and DC; made his decision and then, as Abedelia says it was all done and dusted as far as he was concerned. Massive generalisation here but men do seem to have the facility to make a decision and move on very quickly.

One day you will be so grateful that you made the decision not to sleep with him.

I hope you are having a lovely day.
(My first post was much better than this one, but I have to go now!)

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