Is it possible to have affair but stay happily married/attached? Pls be honest.

[MabelMay]

Hello All

I really need your honesty and experiences/opinions.
Without going into too much detail as I do wish to remain as anonymous as possible obviously, I have recently found myself falling for someone other than my DP. We have had our problems in the past, DP and I, but we have two lovely little kids together and I've never really been distracted by another man since being with him (8 years). Until now. Recently, after some months of feeling unbelievably attracted to this person, I've found out he feels exactly the same. I feel like I'm on the precipice of something. I have such strong feelings for this guy and have not felt this happy in years. I really want it to happen and yet I know you'll all think me stupid/selfish/naive/etc. But please tell me: Have any of you ever managed to have a brief fling/affair without it destroying your other relationship? Or know of anyone who has? Is it crazy to even think this can happen? I say brief because he is leaving the country for good at the end of the year... am I mad?

You may not feel strong, but you are being strong. Make it your mantra!

It isn't easy to know the best thing to do in terms of telling your DP about OM. I am sure that there are other people on here far better able to advise.

But my personal belief is that if you are going to rebuild a strong and loving relationship that will last, it has to be open and honest. And yes, I think that includes telling him that you have had powerful feelings for somebody else.

If you don't give someone all the facts, they are then operating in the dark.

You have been acutely unhappy in your relationship, to the extent that when an opportunity to get the support you crave presented itself elsewhere, you were open to it.

Although sorely tempted, you didn't succumb to making it a physical affair, and you have put a stop to all communication because you want to make your relationship work.

This is going to be very hard for you to say, and very hard for him to hear. There will be hurt and pain. It will take all your strength (luckily you are very strong).

But when all is said and done, that's how you go about clearing the decks and making a fresh start together. It's like (oh dear, here I go with another metaphor) weeding an overgrown flowerbed. You absolutely have to remove ALL the things that are stopping the flowers from thriving. Picking and choosing which weeds to remove will not do the job properly or successfully.

It must feel stomach-churningly scary to contemplate telling him. But I do believe in your particular situation, honesty is a friend of your relationship.

To think of it another way, you are going to ask him to be completely open and lay all his cards on the table. It's only fair that you do the same. Then you can get on with dealing with the issues thrown up, trying to work through everything, saving the good bits and finding a way to improve the negative bits.

Remember that at the moment, every moment spent focusing on OM, as understandable as it is, is energy drawn from your ability to work on your relationship with DP.

You are doing superbly well. Keep going, one day at a time. Little steps.

You have been strong, Mabel because, by stopping contact with OM you've started to take control of the situation that you found yourself in.

As for the need for 'closure' you can really only get that from inside yourself. At the moment you are grieving for what could have been: when people grieve at the loss of a loved one they get to a state of acceptance - they don't get 'closure' - they accept their loss, integrate it into their lives and move on.

In order for you to do that then you can't keep dredging up old stuff about how he looked, how he made you feel etc because that gives him some kind of 'power' over you and frees you from the responsibility to deal with what has happened and move on. IME you can get closure by working on yourself, and by making the decision to move on.

Your life and current and future happiness doesn't depend on him or, for that matter, on DP. It depends on YOU.

Should you tell DP about OM or not? That's a difficult question for me because, as you know from previous posts, I didn't tell DH about my affair. Why? Because I am a coward and also because I didn't want him to leave me. Also, at the time I couldn't explain to myself why I had chosen to have an affair, let alone try to explain it to DH. All I knew was that it wasn't his fault, and I knew that my marriage was sound. It took a year of counselling for me to get to the point where I realised that, without going into too much detail, I have issues within myself, rather than within my marriage, that I have to deal with.

Wordweaver's argument for telling him is very persuasive, and I know that WWIFN often advocates telling all. I know that by keeping this secret from DH I am still deceiving him. I chose to live with that secret; you can, and probably should, chose NOT to.

Keep posting - particularly if you feel the urge to text OM. WW is right - little steps. That's what it takes.

Hi Mabel,

I hope you've had something to eat/cup of tea and feel a bit better than you did.

I totally understand what you're saying about not wanting to ruin things when they're peaceful. It makes sense emotionally not to want arguments and upsets.

But logically, that doesn't make sense. It is far easier to have a rational, thoughtful discussion when you are calm than when you are angry or already shouting.

You have said yourself that the peaceful times aren't real, because they are interspersed with these terrible blow-ups about whether or not he wants to be there.

Is it possible that on some level - not consciously perhaps - he says those things every six months or so in order that you won't rock the boat when things ARE peaceful. Looking at the effect of his behaviour as if we were detectives:

1. He tells you that he isn't sure that your relationship is meant to be.
2. He receives assurance, love, comfort from you - you have said that at those times you feel that you have to be the responsible one, listening and understanding. Anything inflammatory you say at these times is put down to the drama of the moment by him and ignored.
3. Things go back to normal with you feeling exhausted and longing for peace and quiet.
4. Having got some peace back, you can't bear to destroy it again. Therefore he doesn't have to listen to your doubts and fears.

He told you last night how happy he is. I think it's very interesting that he has said that to you, in the light of what he says every few months when he decides he ISN'T happy. What are the possible reasons why he said that last night?

1. He IS happy. If so, why does he flare up and say he's not on a regular basis?
2. He's self-deceiving - he doesn't know his own mind and feels confused. If so, you deserve to be allowed to talk about this with him, without it turning into a fight. Because if he's confused about his feelings, how does he think you feel?
3. He is not happy, but is saying that to make you feel better. If so, why?

Whichever way I look at it, I only see the need to talk openly and honestly with each other - to explain the conundrums you feel he puts in front of you. If you feel that it will be impossible without fighting, then what about your earlier idea of relationship counselling?

A relationship takes two, and you have said that you do not feel fulfilled. You described it as treading water. You say that sometimes you resent him. Those statements are key to your relationship and to working things out with him. It's stuff that he needs to hear in a calm way - not in the heat of anger.

Everything you have said seems to me to show a wish to do your best to make this relationship work. If that's the case, it's going to take a lot of courage from both of you, as things will be said that will hurt. As you know, I think that you probably need to tell him about being attracted to someone else. But that's something only you can decide - and it would need to be part of an honest heart-opening from both of you.

Anyway, true to form I have written far too much and got carried away with thoughts when I only intended to say that I am about to post a massively long bit of writing, in the hope that it may help. It's a reminder of the things you said in this thread and the conclusions you came to. Seeing your own statements summarised might be a starting place for how to broach the whole subject with DP.

The issues
When you wanted to get married, he said he had too many doubts. He knows it would have meant the world to you to have had that acknowledgement of your togetherness.

For 8 years, every 5 or 6 months, he says that he wants to split up with you and that you?re not good enough for him. These flare-ups are incredibly hurtful.

A big argument with DP will result in him questioning whether you should really be together. The last time it happened you started to feel numb. Like it wasn't hurting any more, it was just making me very angry.

His humour weapon seems to get in the way of you being able to discuss the issues at peaceful moments, so discussion only happens when you are both wound up.

How does it make you feel?
Hurt. ?When these flare-ups happen it breaks my heart.?

Confused. ?I don't know what DP has been waiting for.?

In the dark. ?I don't know what he expects from a relationship.?

Undermined. ?Each time a little bit more of my love for him is eroded. My DP's enduring failure to fully commit to me and to actively undermine our relationship has eaten away at me over the years.?

Emotionally distant. ?I stopped feeling emotionally close enough to my DP to want to have sex with him. I know for certain that partly this is to do with me feeling hurt and battered by his rare verbal attacks on me.?

Doubtful. ?Sometimes I think me and DP are just inherently unsuited.?
We rub each other up the wrong way.?

Tired. ?Each time it happens I lose the will to fight back and to have to be the emotionally strong one.?

Responsible. ?Every time it's happened, I've had to be the one to point out all the reasons we are good together, why we're committed, why I would never leave him.?

Under attack. ?A very trivial cross word said in an overtired moment or rushing with kids or whatever will result in him unleashing a tirade on me the next day saying how I have no respect for him he can't carry on like this.?

Abused. ?My love, respect, and feelings of security have absolutely taken a massive battering.?

Why do these problems exist?
I don't know still if it's genuine doubts or insecurities on his part.
I know that these outbursts of DP's come from a deeply insecure place.
He has ambivalent feelings towards marriage because his own parents weren't remotely faithful and had a pretty unhappy marriage.
He is deeply insecure

What have you done to try to fix it?
Told him all the reasons you are good together, many times over.
Suggested couples counselling on many occasions. He has been against it.

His good points as you have explained them
He is a wonderful dad. He lashes love and patience on your two boys.

You say you know he loves you.

He is capable of being incredibly loving, funny, respectful and generous.

He is romantic in little things - the little gestures (home-made cards, nice home-cooked meals, weekends without kids)

He does lots of childcare when he can, cooks lots, helps around the house, whilst at the same time holding down a very successful high-profile career with lots of travel.

Are his good points what make him a good man, or what make him a good partner?
He is a wonderful dad. That is good news for the children.

You say you know he loves you. How does he demonstrate this?

He is capable of being incredibly loving, funny, respectful, generous. But I?m afraid you have stated that he is also capable of being thoughtless, selfish and cruel. All this statement says is that he is a human being. We are all capable of great kindness and great harm. Ultimately it?s not what we?re CAN do that counts, it?s what we DO do.

He is romantic in little things - the little gestures (home-made cards, nice home-cooked meals, weekends without kids). So he knows that those things make a difference? He knows that the little gestures matter? Therefore he is capable of understanding the opposite too ? that the little hurts matter. That they erode away at your relationship in the same way as romantic gestures strengthen it.

He does lots of childcare when he can, cooks lots, helps around the house, whilst at the same time holding down a very successful high-profile career with lots of travel. This is all good, but it makes him a good housemate or work colleague or team player. It makes him a good man, not necessarily a good partner.

The reasons to try that you have stated
Love. My love for him and the knowledge that he loves me.

He is working hard to support all of us, to enable us to live in a lovely home.

Being able to say at the end of it, either "we worked really hard at it and we're stronger than ever" or "we tried really hard to fix things that weren't working, we did everything we could but we just couldn't make it work in the end".

Reasons to leave
The possibility that you will be happier alone.
Opening the door to possible future relationships that may be more nurturing.

Key statements
My kids are my priority and of course (they're 4 and 2) I don't want to do anything that will hurt them in the long-term.

He lashes love and attention on me. MOST OF THE TIME.

Even my closest friends think he's great, think we're happy and all going swimmingly. If you saw us on the outside you would probably think us a very happy young family.

I know it is emotional abuse because that's how I feel afterwards - abused.

I've come to see just how much anger and resentment has built up inside me over the years about it.

Now it's whether I care enough about DP and our relationship to fix it.

When it comes to the most fundamental foundations of our relationship, it is seriously, damagingly lacking.

Do you think it's financial reasons motivating him NOT marrying me? I'd never thought of that. In some weird insecure way (he is deeply insecure) he might think he'd be MORE likely to lose me if we got married, because I'D have less to lose by leaving him

I need to give my DP a chance to change things - either as the result of us having had a proper talk about the state of our relationship or through some kind of couples therapy

Thoughts
Ultimately we forgive those we love when they are hurtful because we understand the reasons for it and their true feelings. But you have talked about your capacity to forgive being eroded by the repetition of his hurtful behaviour.

When is it unacceptable for someone to make their partner feel sad or bad? In theory, never. But realistically speaking, we all snap at our loved ones now and then. You?ve just picked his socks up off the sitting-room floor for the millionth time or you?ve discovered that he didn?t shut the freezer door properly and everything has defrosted. BUT it?s a combination of quantity and quality that leads to it being unacceptable.

If it?s trivial stuff that makes you say ?Oh DP, for crying out loud!? once every couple of months, for many people that would be negligible and acceptable.

However, if you were saying that every day and making DP feel that they were unable to do anything right, that would not be acceptable.

If it?s telling your partner something that makes them shrivel up inside and doubt everything their foundations are built on, well, for many people that would be acceptable NEVER, let alone every six months.

wordweaver thank you so, so much. I am walking out the door in 5 minutes but am going to come back this afternoon and have a good long look at what you've written. Thanks for laying it all out like that. It's hugely, hugely helpful. I'm really touched by your interest and thoughtfulness.
MMx

Wordweaver you are a goddess! How wonderfully kind and thoughtful of you to take the time to go through the thread and pick out the pertinent points of Mabel's posts and responses in order to highlight what the REAL problem is here - her relationship with DP.

Mabel - I'm not going to moan on at you again about the OM issue, because, having re-read this thread and Wordweaver's posts I don't think you need to tell me that it's your relationship with DP that's at the heart of all this.

I'm not sure how much help I can be with that but I'll be watching this thread with interest to see how you're getting on. So don't think you can get away with texting OM cos if you do I'll know and I'll be back

Don't let your feelings for OM cloud your judgment in deciding whether you can sort out your relationship or whether you need to call it a day.

You'll be in my thoughts, and I'll be keeping an eye on you

My take on this is you are hurting yourself by thinking about the OM, you are tormenting yourself as you can't have what you want. You have to go cold turkey, no contact, don't let yourself think about him and try and get your relationship back on track. If you would feel you want to leave your P even if this other man hadn't been around then you need to think about that very carefully.

Mabel, hope you are feeling a little bit better/calmer today. Wishing you well. x

sorrento, you're right.

ilovemyteddy and wordweaver, thanks as always for your kindness and interest - i know my relationship with my DP is at the heart of all this.

i don't have anything revelatory to add - but just wanted to thank you both, and let you know i'm feeling much calmer. i can't really talk about the OM at the moment because I still haven't resolved to not contact him again and so until I do I'll stop frustrating you all and will go and figure it all out in my head.

As for "us", I hope I can get DP to understand how I feel about our relationship. It's not going to be easy though - i think he'll be mortified to think how unhappy i've been; but i worry that it'll make him feel more insecure and therefore further undermine our relationship; he's used to me being the one to big us up, so to speak.

Anyway, we'll see.

Thanks so much WW, and ILMT.

MMx

Mabel, good to hear from you. Glad you feel calmer.

Don't feel you have to figure this out in your head - if you need a place to get stuff out then this is it.

It sounds vital that you enable DP to understand how you feel. Of course, as you say, it's not going to be easy. At first it is bound to feel as if it makes things more unsettled.

But you are unhappy NOW. If you feel that talking to him is going to make you more unhappy, isn't that a bit like saying it's not worth trying?

I can sense how exhausted you must feel from all the emotions that have been wracking you. The last thing you want must be to create more upset.

It is important that you look after yourself though - protect yourself from harm. And I fear that saying nothing now opens you up to harm and hurt later on.

What would you advise your child to do, if they were ever in a similar position?

Please continue to post if it will help. We're here to listen and support. Sometimes you do have to pause and re-marshal your troops, as it were.

The conflict can't be avoided forever. From what you have said, sooner or later your DP will upset you again. At least if you initiate the conversation, you will have more of a sense of control, and you will also have broken the 'holding pattern' of your relationship over the past few years. That in itself might kickstart a change.

Good luck. Thinking of you.

Wordweaver, ilovemyteddy, etc. Please try not to despair of me. I've thought twice about posting here but you've been so helpful to me and so thoughtful that, even tho' you won't like what I'm going to tell you, it felt like I should let you know. Also, I'm having a "low" moment.

I just couldn't/can't get the OM out of my head and I'm planning to ask to see him face to face. We have been in touch by text just a little. Nothing sexual/romantic, but there has been contact.

I am probably kidding myself that we can meet each other and keep things platonic. I just want to see him and talk face-to-face, and hopefully get some clarity from that. Am I stupid? It's just I can't continue like this. It's been almost 3 months and I am so desperate to see him. What does this mean? That I'm unhappy at the moment obviously? But also I'm a selfish cow?

Is it about him, or about my DP? I don't know.

It's just that every time I thought about not seeing OM again it broke my heart. At least that's how it feels. I've been in tears thinking about never seeing him again. And I realised that only when I thought it would be possible to see him again did I start to feel happy. I don't know what this says about me or my relationship.

I almost want to see him and have the bubble burst. Realise that he's not the answer to my unhappiness/problems... I don't know.

Anyway, this is all a bit garbled and I'm probably not making much sense. I just don't think I can handle not seeing him again.
It's making me too miserable.

My DP is away an awful lot at the moment. That's not helping...

Sorry
MMx

Mabel - you don't need to see OM to realise that he is not the answer to your unhappiness and problems. What are you going to gain by seeing him? More heartache as he shags you and leaves you, and you have to face up to cheating on DP and DC. I'm sorry to be so harsh but that's the reality of an affair. Men can often walk away from these things and get on with their lives (particularly single men who are leaving the country.) It's not so easy for us.

You are deeply embroiled in a fantasy world of being fancied by another man which is giving you a big ego-boost. Your heart will not be broken if you don't see him again. I know that's how it feels, because when I called time on my affair and my OM didn't respond to my attempts to contact him again I thought my heart would break. But here I am, heart unbroken (slightly bruised though.) The fact that your OM is leaving the country makes me even more concerned because he has nothing to lose - a quick affair, lots of declarations of love to keep you onside, and then he fucks off and leaves you to pick up the pieces.

I can understand why DP being away isn't helping, but you know the real issues are to do with your relationship with him and with yourself. Use this time to give some thought to that and not to OM. He's just a man; DP is just a man. You don't need either of them to be happy.

Please keep posting, especially if you feel the need to contact OM. Can't promise an instant reply but I'll keep lurking. xx

ilovemyteddy - thanks for posting. i know that almost everything you say is right and that, even more importantly, it comes from a position of experience...
so why can't I follow through and do as you advise?

The thing is, it's not like OM is the first guy to come along to fancy me/pay me attention in the last 8 years. I don't want this to come out sounding remotely vain or egotistical - altho' it's hard not too - but I have never lacked male attention. I have always been considered very pretty, rightly or wrongly. I suppose I'm only saying this because in the past over the course of my relationship with DP I have of course actively ignored/dismissed/rejected any kind of vaguely inappropriate attention or overtures from other men during the time I've been with DP. And there have been a fair few occasions. So, with the OM, it doesn't feel to me like it's about having the ego-boost of having someone fancy me. It's probably more selfish than that, in a way. I think he's completely beautiful, the most beautiful man I've ever seen, and - in my weakest moments - I just want to touch him, kiss him, etc (eat your heart out mills & boon).

ilovemyteddy, can I ask, did you drive your affair, or did the OM? Or was it kind of mutual? How long did it last? Who ended it? If you could go back in time, would you really stop it before it started?

I know a lot of this is about sex, and sexual attraction. My DP says he fancies me more than ever, and he shows it; but I don't feel the same about him. Part of this I know goes back to the issues that we have which stretch back over 8 years. But what if I can't ever fully fancy him again? Do people put their sexual desires to one side in these situations, to save their marriages?

I guess this is a question for another thread.

I mean, my DP is totally loyal to me at the moment because he still finds me sexually attractive. In 10, 20 years time he might not. And then he'll probably want to go off and have sex with someone else, right?

And I'll be sitting there a saggy fifty-something thinking, 'why didn't I do it whilst I still could?'... I am totally rambling I've gone off on a tangent. It's just all these feelings have made me wonder about how long-term relationships, sexually monogomous ones, work. Maybe I'm really with the wrong guy if I'm thinking this way. Maybe we just don't love each other enough.

As soon as I wrote that last sentence, I knew it wasn't right.

I do love DP. I'm just so freaking angry with him.

Ok - first things first. I was a saggy fifty something when I had my affair. And he was a lot younger. My sex life with DH was fine before and during my affair. I'm not going to put the blame on DH for what happened; only to say that we probably were taking each other for granted at the time I chose to cheat on him. Your comment about DP not fancying you when you are a 'saggy etc' tells me more about your self-esteem issues than it does about the state of your relationship with him IYSWIM.

OM drove the affair initially (in hindsight I think he liked the thrill of the chase) but once it became physical he let me do a lot of the running and making arrangements to meet. I ended it after eight months because I had made myself ill with guilt and was physically and mentally exhausted by trying to live two lives; but after I ended it (by e-mail I'm ashamed to say) he did not contact me again.

If I knew then what I know now then I would definitely have stopped it before it started. I am living with the guilt of having betrayed my DH and DC; I became selfish and put my needs before those of my loved ones; and I have discovered things about myself that I don't like. Sometimes I really feel that my affair has defined me as a person, and I hate that, because it was a small period of time in a long-ish life - but it has had a profound affect on my sense of who I am. I almost had another affair about six months after my first one ended and it was that that drove me to seek counselling to find out what the hell was going on with me.

My affair was a fantasy that became real and involved many people in lies and deceit. I became a different person during my affair and it's been hard to get back to the person I was (and I don't think I ever will.) Truly, sweetheart, it's not worth it, not even for the most beautiful man in the world (and mine was a stunner too.)

Your post suggests to me, as many other posts have, that DP is eroding your self-esteem and you are now at a point where you are seriously thinking of cheating on him, whereas in the past you weren't. You need to resurrect those boundaries that you previously set; or you need to call it a day with DP and find someone who's love will boost your self-esteem, not whittle it away.

thanks ilovemyteddy - rushing out but wanted to acknowledge post. will read fully later.
re: saggy fiftysomething! - i was being a bit tongue-in-cheek when i wrote that. but i do know of so many marriages that have ended when husbands had affair with younger woman after wife hit fifty...
anyway, more later. thanks for answering my questions. MMx

ilovemyteddy - thanks for filling me in on your own experiences.

Is it too personal to ask why you think - in hindsight - you had the affair? You say you were happy in your marriage and the sex life was good. Evidently you see it as a personal flaw that you had the affair... Do you?

Also, how did you feel when he never replied to your email? Did you ever hear from him again? Were you devastated or did you recover quite quickly?

I can appreciate everything you're saying about how it has made you feel about yourself, and I know you're trying to give me a wake-up call.

The thing is, I really, honestly, hand on heart don't think this about my self-esteem. Perhaps I'm the worst person to judge, but I don't feel like I have low self-esteem right now. I feel pretty good about myself. I feel like my DH is lucky to have me (well, was!); I feel confident in myself.

HOWEVER... I've been thinking about this a lot over the past 48 hours. I know that I am not satisfied at the moment in terms of how fulfilling I'm finding my life. I used to have an exciting career that involved a lot of travel; I've always travelled a lot in my life but in the past 5 years I gave it up to be there for the DC and to allow my DH to continue with his successful, travelling career. I don't think I've ever got over this. I find my life now - much as I love my DCs - pedestrian and predictable. I feel a bit stuck in a rut and keep asking myself, "is this it?". I do still work, it's fairly satisfying, but it's the bigger picture of realising Okay, this is where you live now, this is your life, this is who you're going to spend the rest of your life with...

At the same time, I feel my DH has - much as he loves me, which I know he does - by refusing to marry me and voicing the odd doubt he has failed to offer me something really concrete, loving, secure in return for what I feel I have given him (the freedom to continue to travel, a lovely home, 2 kids that get picked up by their mum every day etc etc). And this has made me at turns very sad and very angry.

He never swept me off my feet. For 6 years I was desperate for him to do the big romantic gesture, and it never came...

The OM is the absolute antithesis of my DH in so many ways. He is, in a way, the adventure that I've missed so much since I became a mum and a "dutiful partner". He's not Harry 'round the corner - he's X from X-land - god does any of this make sense? He's a fantasy, but at the same time he's totally real. He's not so much about building up my self-esteem, he's about an escape from reality.

I have to fix more than my relationship with my DP - I really need to find a way to find my own personal satisfaction and fulfillment in life. I grew up all over the world. I think I find it very hard to stay in one place, and yet that's exactly where I've been for five years. I'm not sure how to satisfy this wunderlust once kids come along... In many ways, England doesn't feel like home to me. Oh. It's all so much more complicated than just wanting to shag a sexy man, isn't it?

I don't know what to do.

Of course - he's not my DH! I mean DP

"My DP says he fancies me more than ever, and he shows it; but I don't feel the same about him."

Unless you are a person for whom sex is not that important, and other aspects of the relationship take precident eg: family, home, friendship, shared interests etc, then this is A BIG DEAL.

Is it better to stay in a relationship, for the sake of a family life and children, where there is no sexual chemistry?

How far are you prepared to bury your own needs here? Women seem to do this a lot because there is still a prevailing attitude that if you do not put your children first you are a "bad mother" and no-one wants that label.

I suspect that some/many men in this type of situation might feel a sense of entitlement to have an affair.

But back to your situation - can it really be right when you are having to agonise so much?

No doubt there are many men in this type of situation (eg in a long term relationship with children but no longer fancy their wife) however I would imagine that they DO have affairs and their wives either turn a blind eye, for the sake of family life, or don't, in which case the man moves onto pastures new, with or without the affair partner.

It's not too personal to ask why I had an affair, but I may be a bit coy as I don't want to out myself.

At the time I would have said that I had the affair because it gave me an ego-boost that was missing after a long marriage. It's good to be told that you are beautiful, for your opinions to be listened to, for another man to tell you that he finds you sexually desirable. I also made the fatal mistake of thinking, as so many adulterers do, that I was on a roller-coaster with no way of getting off. And obviously the excitement, the lust and the illictness was a great part of all that. I felt like a real woman again instead of somebody else's wife, mother, daughter, boss.

Once the affair was over I looked at my marriage and knew that what I wanted was what I had - a strong, loving, reliable man, who might not make the big romantic gestures but has always been there during some tough times in our long marriage and who views me as an equal partner in our relationship But a few months after my affair ended I contemplated having another affair with a different OM and realised that there was something wrong with me. I was diagnosed with depression and had some great counselling which threw up events in my past that had contributed to me being 'ripe' for an affair. Also I had the classic mid-life crisis of 'is this it?', empty-nest etc etc. I've spent my life supporting DH, DC and DParents so when this saggy fifty-something attracted a young, good-looking man, I thought I deserved some fun and could have a no-strings fling and look back on it as a bit of an adventure. I felt a sense of entitlement, and when I look at your post of how you have supported DP at the cost of your own career I can see that you do too.

When I ended my affair OM did not respond to my e-mail or any subsquent attempts that I made to contact him. I was absolutely devastated and, to be honest, there are still moments of hurt even now, two years and a lot of soul-searching and hard work later. He wasn't 'The One' or anything like that, but I felt by his lack of even acknowledging that the affair was over, that it all meant nothing to him, and that he had no respect for my feelings. Which is probably true - God knows I didn't have much respect for myself after the affair ended. The thing that was supposed to boost my self-respect sent it plummeting through the floor. And I wasn't able to have that no-strings fling; I found myself falling for him. And I lost my sense of who I am as I carelessly broke down all my boundaries and risked chucking away 20+ years of a good and loving marriage, and my DH and DCs respect for me.

I think this is about your self-esteem, because of what you have said about your DP; but I also think you are feeling good about yourself right now because of the boost to your confidence that OMs attention has given you. Re-read Wordweaver's post where she pulled out bits from your posts about your relationship with DP. I think his lack of committment to marrying you has affected your self-esteem.

What I do find worrying is that you are much younger than me, yet you are already getting the 'is this it?' feelings. I can't remember how old your DC are, but I would say from experience that it does feel, particularly with young DC, that you put your life on hold and that you can lose the sense of who you are because you aren't MabelMay, you are DPs partner, DCs mum etc.
It does get better as they get older (although you then turn into a taxi-driver on top of everything else!) but I do understand and remember so well, that feeling of 'where am I in all this?' I think your situation is complicated by DPs refusal to commit after all you have done for him, and this is the problem that you need to sort out.

The problem with escaping from reality with Mr Wonderful is that it isn't an escape - it's a diversion from the problems that you really have to address in your relationship and with where you find yourself right now. Those problems aren't going to go away if you shag Mr W - they are almost certainly going to be made worse.

Yes - it's much more complicated that wanting to shag a sexy man. I've been upside down and inside out since I started this road to becoming more self-aware. But, for me, the key has been to face the reality of the situation you are in, face your responsibilities, and look inside yourself to find that happiness rather than at someone else (and I include DH/DP and DC in this.)

What would really make you happy right now, bearing in mind that you have DP/DC to consider as well as your own wishes?

I'm not one of those "you terrible woman" people because I've been there myself.

Years of feeling neglected, not really loved do terrible things to your self esteem and I totally understand where you are coming from. In my case I got found out and am now getting divorced, but am glad because a lifetime of feeling like nobody special would not have been much fun.

Of course leaving your DP first is the right thing to do, but life is rarely that easy/clear cut. We all want the easy way, don't want to risk losing everything for something that might turn out to be nothing.

Personally I would tell DP that this situation is not good enough for you and you want out. After 8 years he should know how he feels and he is still ambivalent...not good. Follow your heart if you are brave enough...and don't expect it to be easy in the short term. I want more from life than I had...I tried so hard to make it work and everything failed...he just didn't feel strongly enough about me. Now I know I'm doing the right thing. GL

So Fizzfiend are you advising Mabel to have her affair with OM and hope that she doesn't get found out by DP ("follow your heart") or tell DP that she is not happy and that she is going to leave him?

I can see why having the affair could be perceived as the 'easy' way - as you say "[you] don't want to risk losing everything for something that might turn our to be nothing." However OM is leaving the country at the end of the year, so this something will have a definite end to it - and then what? Mabel is then faced with the same scenario she is faced with now, a DP that says he adores her, but who won't commit to marriage; but with the added complication of the emotional fallout of her having been involved with someone else who has left her to start his new life abroad. This also presents the added complication of her undiscovered infidelity and the affect that would undoubtedly have on her and her relationship with DP.

I totally agree with you that a lifetime of neglect will completely destroy anyone's self-esteem. However, from reading her posts, it is her DPs failure to commit which is the major problem (you could see that as neglect - personally I don't), coupled with Mabel's perception of life passing her by, which are giving her a sense of entitlement to have an affair (after all she's done for DP and being tied down with the DC etc.) I completely relate to how she feels about that, but whilst you are in a relationship (with or without marriage vows being spoken) then shagging someone else will have inevitable consequences - I'm not talking about morality here but about how infidelity affects both the betrayer and the betrayed partner.

FWIW Mabel I think you are going to have that talk with DP about how unhappy you are. But what you need to get straight in your mind is this: if DP turned around and said "Okay, let's get married tomorrow" is that really what you want? Or is there more to this that just DP's lack of committment? Tadpole's post talked about your comment that you don't fancy DP any more. Is that just because of OM, or is that symptomatic of a deeper problem? If DP offered to marry you tomorrow would that 'cure' your wanderlust and feelings for OM? Would DP suddenly become sexually attractive again?

Lots of things for you to ponder on, Mabel.

oh god bollocks i just wrote this massive post and it's bloody disappeared! Argh.

I have to run again.
tadpole and fizzfiend I did respond to both your posts. thanks. and ilovemyteddy too, as always.
i'll try and rewrite it tomorrow when i have a moment.
bugger this stupid laptop.
MMx

I never did write my proper reply - and now things have moved on somewhat.

I'm sitting here in floods of tears feeling ridiculous and finally realising how unhappy I am. You are all totally justified to have no sympathy and say 'told you so', 'serves you right' etc etc. I am my own worst enemy.

I can't stick around because I'm alone with the kids and i have to take them out or it's not fair on them to be stuck home with tearful freak mum.

I saw the OM last night. It's only when I saw him that I realised how much I've wanted him for all this time, how much i was depending on seeing him/being with him to make me happy. But it was HE who said he'd decided - having had all this time to think about it - that it wasn't worth the pain and guilt to start something.

Even tho' I know he's right i feel cut to the bone and my heart feels so sore and I have nowhere to hide now. I am devastated. And I don't even have the comfort of thinking it was ME that made the "right" decision.
I don't know how to move on from here....

I'm so sorry I let you all down who'd told me not to see him, to forget about him.

This feels so fucking awful. Can't stop bloody crying.

Do you think you would be happier on your own? I don't mean with OM, I mean just living apart from your partner? It sounds a bit as though you are seeing the OM as a "rescuer".

Why not bite the bullet with your partner and come clean about how you really feel? If necessary do it via a third party, eg: counsellor. You will be given the opportunity to express your feelings with regards to how you view your partner on a sexual/romantic level. It really is not a crime if you don't fancy him you know. I think you should stop beating yourself up about this.

I really think that you would benefit from some counselling with/without your partner so you could talk about your feelings.

You are not having an affair with the OM so stop the guilt trip! It is not a crime to have feelings towards someone else, it signifies that there is something missing in your primary relationship.

Take the drama out of the situation, if you can, get it all on the table. Don't allow yourself to be emotionally blackmailed by your partner. Your feelings DO matter, it is not worth being miserable the whole time!