Is it possible to have affair but stay happily married/attached? Pls be honest.

[MabelMay]

Hello All

I really need your honesty and experiences/opinions.
Without going into too much detail as I do wish to remain as anonymous as possible obviously, I have recently found myself falling for someone other than my DP. We have had our problems in the past, DP and I, but we have two lovely little kids together and I've never really been distracted by another man since being with him (8 years). Until now. Recently, after some months of feeling unbelievably attracted to this person, I've found out he feels exactly the same. I feel like I'm on the precipice of something. I have such strong feelings for this guy and have not felt this happy in years. I really want it to happen and yet I know you'll all think me stupid/selfish/naive/etc. But please tell me: Have any of you ever managed to have a brief fling/affair without it destroying your other relationship? Or know of anyone who has? Is it crazy to even think this can happen? I say brief because he is leaving the country for good at the end of the year... am I mad?

I think that the misleading thing with that cliche about right and wrong is that feelings, in and of themselves, are neither right nor wrong, they just ARE.

You can't help feeling a certain way. Where 'right and wrong' comes in is in terms of how you choose to express or act on those feelings.

So what I say is, forget about asking 'how can something so right feel so wrong'. It's a question you can never answer. Your feelings are what they are - accept them and acknowledge them. But focus your sense of 'right' and 'wrong' on how you choose to express or act on those feelings.

Each of has an inner moral compass, do you agree? For some it may spring from religious beliefs. For others it comes from a sense of society or community, from our parents' guidance.

Wherever yours comes from, it's yours. It's not affected by your feelings. What your moral compass tells you is right today, it will tell you is right tomorrow.

So what I'm saying is, right now you need to put your back against that and lean on it. Your feelings are swirling around you, trying to pull you away from that decision. You can't trust them.

By sticking to your guns you are showing faith and belief in yourself - in your ideas of right and wrong in the cold light of day. Your belief system/moral compass/whatever you want to call it - it isn't there for when it's easy to do the right thing. It's there for when it's HARD to do the right thing. It's there for when there are all sorts of pulls on your emotions and thoughts, and there is no one to tell you what to do for the best.

Does any of that make sense to you? It's a thought process I have that I rarely articulate to others, but it has helped me before. I too have followed my emotions in the past, but when they led me towards a place where a lot of people could be hurt, something else had to kick in.

You don't have to keep judging yourself in terms of strong or weak. We're complex creatures, full of inconsistencies and contradictions. We're not just one colour through and through. You'll spend valuable energy worrying about judging yourself. Right now you need all your energy to carry through the decision you have made.

Hope you enjoyed your walk despite the rain.

MabelMay I'm at work too and have to post and run, but I just wanted to echo what Wordweaver says in her wonderful posts to you. I'll try to get back here later.

wordweaver, yes that all absolutely makes sense to me - and it's good to re-read your posts to give me the extra impetus I need to not cave in. Thank you.
The thing is, I feel so miserable! I keep thinking perhaps I've thrown away a chance to be really happy with this OM. ... but then I remember there was a time when I was really happy with DP. I know that it's THAT relationship that I have to work on. But, god, I am really struggling to fight the urge to text/phone/email OM and say "actually, I DO want to see you - I want to see you now, I miss you etc etc" I'm so confused. I'm very underslept today (DCs both sleeping badly all weekend, solo parenting etc etc) and I don't think this is helping me think rationally. Which is why, wordweaver, your rational, encouraging threads have done me a world of good.

About to re-read for third time...!

I'm glad if anything I've said has helped.

Just keep going one hour at a time.

You are bound to feel miserable I'm afraid, but that is why you need all your energy to go into staying strong about your decision. It's terribly, terribly painful to say goodbye to someone you love. You are bound to have fantasies about what might happen - your feelings will try to overpower you.

Just keep believing in yourself and remembering why you decided that this was the right thing to do. The passing of time doesn't make it any less right. All the reasons not to contact him are valid now, tomorrow, next week, next month.

Give yourself little treats to help you along. If you like the theatre, book yourself in to go and see something. Or a live gig or a film or anything.

Are there books that you have always planned to read or places you have always planned to visit in your local area? Make a list and turn to it every time you feel yourself wobbling.

You could also spend some time re-focusing on what you need to work on in terms of your DP. You could cut and paste the information, suggestions and advice about that relationship out of this thread into a word document, carefully avoiding any mention of OM. Then you can read them through without getting distracted by thoughts about him.

There were some really interesting insights and suggestions upthread that you may be able to work with, but I imagine that right now even the mention of OM is like the turning of a knife. So pull the relevant parts into a new document and start thinking about your next step with DP.

It's all about the future now, not the past.

I think that your approach shows immaturity. If I met someone now I would hope they would fill me with such happiness, warmth and security that it would sustain me through times when we cannot see each other. I wouldn't want to be miserable, with an aching heart because then it would be up to the other person to fulfill the duty of making it all perfect, and me to be happy again.

A lover should make you feel fulfilled because you make your lover fulfilled. You sound empty, lonely, sad and pathetic.

Being joined at the hip everyday doesn't make you feel anymore fulfilled but could fuel the insecurity and ultimately make you more miserable for example if they or you had to go away for a short time.

I think you either need to work things out with your husband or decide to make a clean break, without the serial monogamy, and learn to live life on your own with your children while you co parent. You need to mature and grow up a bit and I'm sorry to be so blunt.

As it stands you bring to a relationship nothing but misery and heartache with an expectation that these symptoms will be cured.

Thanks again, wordweaver - and cutting and pasting tips re relationship with DP great idea. In the past when I've tried to confront DP about our problems/his issues he has always deflected it with humour/irony - it's his favourite weapon of choice - and actually its been very effective in the past - i.e. it's stopped me in my tracks and we've never got that far. He laughs me off, basically - in a gentle way... I just don't think he wants that conversation.

celticfairy I don't really know how to respond to your post. I'm sorry you think I'm immature. Fair enough. I don't know how much of this thread you've read but absolutely my DP filled me with happiness and warmth (probably never that much emotional security if I'm honest, that's always been my job - making him feel secure) for a long time. But unfortunately we have reached a crisis in our relationship due mainly to the way that he undermines our commitment to each other but... - anyway it's a long story and I don't want to repeat previous posts.

I'm still not sure what you're saying to me. Do you think I'm being pathetic because I've fallen for another man and am making an effort not to take that any further, or that I'm being pathetic because my DP is away...? Am genuinely curious. I'm not pissed off altho' I can't deny being a bit upset by what you've said.
My DP has always gone away overseas throughout our relationship and that is not a problem for me - he has to for his work. I used to do the same, but then I had kids... and so I decided we couldn't both keep travelling the way we had done before.

I sound "empty" - I guess I've felt a little empty since sending the Dear John-esque email to OM.
I'm not lonely - honestly, outwardly and inwardly feeling very connected to people and the world.
"sad", yes.
"pathetic", yes definitely!

Maybe I do need to try and live life on my own as a singleton but I'm not about to do that without really trying to figure things out with DP who, yes, I still love. It's complicated. Relationships don't always run smoothly/work out as I'm sure you know otherwise you wouldn't be hanging around on the relationship threads.

Why do you say I bring "nothing but misery and heartache" to a relationship...?
I just want to understand where you're coming from...

You have sent your 'potential lover' with whom you've had an emotional affair with but not yet sex a dear john letter. Do you not see what you're doing? Now you're feeling miserable and aching for him. It's a longing that can only be cured by...well what exactly!

So, if you do decide to leave your dp and have sex with the OM it will 'cure' the misery and heartache. This is romantic nonsense and a sure sign that you can't bear to be on your own in the sense of not belonging to someone else. I suggest you take a mature look at your marriage and stop filling in gaps where there are none. Only then can you move forward to either risking it all (so exciting) for the OM, deciding to make a go of it with your DP or facing up to a spell of time on your own with the children.

And yes I have read this blog and it really is hard work and a self centered navel gazing exercise. You were the one who asked for honesty.

Using humour and irony is certainly a technique that some people use to get their own way.

You can't change how your DP behaves - only he can do that. You CAN change how you react to it.

He may not want to have the conversation, but he can't always get what he wants. And in my experience, either a person wants to save a relationship or they don't. If they do, they will be willing to try anything, having a conversation about it being the least of it!

Some men can't take very much at one time - after too much 'emotional conversation' it's like their brain freezes or their ears grow over or something. At that point they just don't hear/remember what has been said.

I think that the first thing seems to be to get him to see and acknowledge that your relationship is in a very serious place. Perhaps initially that is what you need to say - literally in words of one syllable. Then perhaps ask him if he wants to save it.

I know this probably seems really simplistic, but I just wonder if that kind of 1+1=2 approach, one sentence at a time, might help you to clarify your own thoughts and help him to see that you are serious. When you put it as plainly as that, there can be no misunderstanding you.

You have just said:

"Maybe I do need to try and live life on my own as a singleton but I'm not about to do that without really trying to figure things out with DP."

So that's your mission statement for the time being - trying to figure things out with DP.

Calling yourself names, wondering if all this makes you a bad person or if you bring only negatives to a relationship - none of that will help you to open a fresh, honest dialogue with your DP.

You are a bright, strong, intelligent woman and you CAN do this.

celticfairy - No, I absolutely don't think that leaving my DP and having sex with OM will "cure the misery and heartache".
Where did that come from? I've pissed you off because I've been honest about having strong feelings for someone else? Because I'm feeling sad about putting those feelings to one side? Because I've got a slightly fucked-up relationship currently with my DP? Because I posted on here asking for advice?

"a sure sign that you can't bear to be alone"... where is that sign? Actually, celticfairy in a fantasty world "alone" is exactly where I'd love to be. But wouldn't that be the ultimately in selfishness in this situation? I have a DP who I still love and want to try to work things through with and two young DCs who I love more than anything in the world who also love their father immensely. I'm all for honesty and opinions - that's what I asked for - but your post is verging on the bitter and bitchy, without much justification given that I've not actually done anything that shitty.

wordweaver - the 1 + 1 + 1 etc etc approach seems like a really good idea to get the ball rolling in the relationship chat. Actually, I've already told DP over the phone that there are things we need to sit down and talk about when he gets back. He didn't seem surprised. So he's kind of bracing himself I suppose. I will take it bit by bit, step by step. I already feel a lot more optimistic than I did this morning -= just about taking a step in the right direction and really trying to fix what's broke and be able to say at the end of it, either "we worked really hard at it and whaddaya know we're stronger than ever" (hopefully) or "we tried really hard to fix things that weren't working, we did everything we could but we just couldn't make it work in the end" (hope not).

Have you been in a similar situation in the past, wordweaver? You seem so wise about it all!
MMx

typo: "the ultimate"

I'm all for honesty and opinions - that's what I asked for - but your post is verging on the bitter and bitchy

I just knew you would write that. I'm so not judging you. All I want you to do is take a look at how you approach relationships. I want you to move away from the Mills and Boons approach. You praise posters who support you but those who respond to your plea to being honest are...well...given the short shrift.

Good luck to you. I hope you work things out. But it's a myriad of complications you weave and I no longer understand.

Morning Mabel, hope you have woken up feeling positive today.

We're all products of things we have witnessed and experienced - I have some empathy because of things I went through, yes, but also because of family situations that one gets drawn into over the years. I'm about the same age as you too.

I think that working to improve and strengthen your relationship with DP will, as you say, enable you to look back on this time with a sense that you did all you could.

I would imagine that what you will end up with will by necessity be a very different relationship - a fresh and new one. Our relationships must have room to grow and develop - they're living things, after all.

But celticfairy - but you've got no idea how I approach relationships. I suppose that's what irked me about your post. You were making quite sweeping statements about my whole approach to love, life, relationships. I'm 34 years old. I've been in quite a few serious relationships. I've been with my DP for 8 years. I certainly don't approach relationships in a Mills & Boon fashion. You say that because I have been mooning over another man? But isn't that what falling for someone is? Romantic, desperate, pathetic, irrational...? It is in the early days... and that's where I am/was with OM.
I was miserable yesterday because I'd done something that felt quite painful to me and is, I know, going to be painful for the OM and - because I have feelings for him - of course I'm going to feel all sorts of pain and regret and confusion about saying goodbye to him, as it were. Even though I know it's the 'right' thing to do.
I certainly don't give posters who've been critical of me short shrift. I've taken absoutely everything everyone has written here on board. In fact I think this whole thread has - literally and quite honestly - stopped me doing something potentially really stupid and damaging and has opened my eyes to the problems in my own relationship. It's the first time I've ever opened up in this way in any situation - I'm quite a private person but I couldn't tell friends, don't have a therapist etc etc so this is where I came. And I'm really glad I did. It's really spurred me into trying to fix these major problems in my relationship. Also, posts like wordweavers have genuinely, genuinely made me focus on being rational and sticking with my guns. I can't say enough how much this has helped me. It's like having a personal motivator!
Aren't I allowed to feel torn/screwed up/sad about letting someone I feel very strongly attached to, go?

I'm all for taking criticism - it's just that yours felt unjustified. But thanks for responding anyway.

I said I'd keep some of the posters updated on things. Telling the OM we couldn't take things any further felt like that big step but it also left me feeling bereft. I needed to vent. I explained that's what I was doing yesterday. That's okay isn't it? I'm moving in the right direction after all, I hope...

And wordweaver, yes feel so much more positive today - about DP, about myself, about my email to OM. Yesterday was definitely a low. I'm sure there'll be more, but today much better. Thanks.

Hi MabelMay. So sorry that I didn't get back to you on Monday - work kicked off and then I was out all day yesterday. Just wanted to ask how you're doing today?

Hi Mabel, like ilovemyteddy I am just checking in with you to see how you are. Hope today is a good day for you so far.

Hi ilovemyteddy and wordweaver - thanks v much for your concern/interest.

I can only write very quickly. DP came back last night after 18 days away. We haven't sat down together to have a proper talk yet - but he has been making me laugh. His humour weapon... - what did I tell you?

I do want to make it work. I do.

I'm afraid I think about OM constantly. But I have made no further contact. It hurts every time I think about not seeing him again.

I'm sorry, celticfairy, I know you think I'm pathetic when I say shit like that.

I have to go.
yours, feeling rather messed up but trying hard, MMx

Keep focusing on your decision - to do all you can to make the marriage work.

It's great that he can make you laugh, but he needs to be able to talk seriously as well. So have a look back through the advice you had on here - see if there's anything helpful to start off the conversation with him.

If he uses humour as a weapon, how about saying to him that you have some serious stuff to talk about but you are only going to open communication for 5/10/15 minutes, after which time you will stop talking and leave it for a day before talking again? If he uses humour because he can't cope with the idea of a long-drawn-out serious emotional conversation, perhaps starting off small may enable you to achieve a bit of serious communication?

Sorry, that was a bit rambling, long day of staring at words on a screen! It sounded better in my head . . .

As for OM, just keep going an hour at a time. Every day that passes takes you one day closer to it not hurting so much. I know it may not feel like it, but I do know it's true.

Wordweaver I'm back briefly. Thanks for that. It wasn't rambling - it made sense. You say "marriage" but of course we're not married. That is one of the 'big things' we need to talk about. Not the fact that we're not married, but why DP never wanted to and why he never wants to talk about it...

Oh, god and as for the OM... I think a lot of the reason I feel so awful about the no contact is because I know he's leaving the country at the end of the year. I guess if he wasn't I could ease this sense of loss by thinking 'well, if things really don't work out with me and DP then there might be the chance to reconnect with OM 6, 8, 12 months down the line. But of course there won't be that option. He'll be gone... And I'll never know what I missed. Probably lots of heartache and misery. But I'll never know...
Oh dear.
Does that sound terrible?

So you see. I'm having a low moment.

Yes - one day at a time.

Rushing again. Just wanted to acknowledge your post before heading out this eve. Romantic (yes yes I know) reunion dinner with DP planned.

Don't ever give yourself any what ifs? moments or if onlys.

coventgarden, thanks. Wish I could take my head away from that space. does that advice come from personal experience?

wordweaver - are you sure you haven't been in a similar situation...? "I do know it's true"

Can I just ask a question to anyone/everyone who might be reading:
how acceptable is it, or how 'normal' is it to think about someone else whilst you're having sex with your DP, to help things along, as it were?
I'm talking about a long-term relationship here of course.
I know of friends who have admitted to having to use their imaginations sometimes...
But, I guess, what I'm asking is, how 'unfaithful' is it for me to be thinking about OM whilst making love to my boyfriend?
Sorry. It's very personal but this is the only place I can ask this sort of question...

If it's only 'thinking' that's okay, isn't it...?

Mabel, I'm so sorry - I do know that you aren't married, that word just crept in, I suppose in place of relationship. Many apologies. I hope I didn't offend you.

It's an odd balance I suppose, because in some ways you're in something that is very much a marriage, but of course it is also categorically not that. My mother's relationship broke down after 20 years and that was one of the many hard things about it - that she was in effect going through a divorce without any of the 'normal' channels.

I do understand what you are saying about the OM leaving the country at the end of the year. Is it possible though that you are focusing on that as being the 'separator', when in fact it is your strong decision of last week that is the separator? If he lived just down the road with no intentions of going anywhere, the distance between you would be just the same, actually. As things stand now, you cannot go there. Ever. It makes no difference if he is two miles away or two thousand miles.

Nothing you have said sounds terrible. I have learned that you never know what is around the next bend in the road. You can't be sure of where you or OM will be in two/five/ten years time. Saying 'I'll never know what I missed' is just you hurting yourself - turning the knife as it were. Because none of us can read the future.

All you can do is make the best decision you can, based on the information you have at the time.

I think that there is a part of our makeup as human beings that sometimes deliberately causes us to hurt ourselves in certain situations. Think back to being a kid - surely everyone picked their scabs sometimes. It hurt like hell, but there was a sort of delight in it at the same time, somehow.

The feelings you got from OM were ones that made you feel wonderful, and therefore grieving over losing him, however odd it might sound, also contains those feelings. Saying to yourself 'I will never see him again' causes pain, but that pain keeps alive in your emotions the feeling of loving him.

The place you are aiming for is where you are 100% able to not need to relive those strong emotions. I think that all these things you are feeling and going through are normal stages. Yes, they are excruciatingly painful, even more so because they are allied with feelings of guilt.

But remember you have chosen this path because you are strong. It's not an easy one to walk down, but the best paths never are.

Personally, I think that while in healthy relationships an element of fantasy and imagination can creep in to sex occasionally, in your case it's not going to help you one bit to think about OM during sex. For exactly the reason I mentioned above - it's keep your feelings for him simmering away, however quietly, and therefore stopping you from moving forward or giving complete attention to the relationship with DP.

To expand on the (admittedly dubious) cooking metaphor, you can't keep OM on a low heat in a hidden corner of the hob. You have to remove the pan from the heat and wash it up and put it away.

Oh dear, peculiar images of men as saucepans now flit through my mind . . .

And in answer to your question, yes, I have been in a comparable if not precisely similar situation. And I echo ilovemyteddy's fantastic posts upthread. Proceeding any further than you did would have caused you and others far worse pain than you are feeling now, however impossible that may seem at this moment.

How was your evening? How are you feeling today?

Hi Mabel. In answer to your question I think there are times when it's normal to fantasise about someone else when you are having sex with DP. However, that 'someone' is usually George Clooney/Brad Pitt (insert your celebrity of preference here!) Because they are fantasy figures - the likelihood of actually having sex with those guys is tiny. But OM is not a fantasy figure, he is very real, and thinking about him whilst having sex with DP will mess with your head and will not help you keep the distance that you need to keep between you and OM.

You made an incredibly brave step when you e-mailed OM to cut off contact. When I was at the start of my affair nothing anyone could have said would have disuaded me from carrying on with it. By listening to what people said to you on here, and acting on it, you really have saved youself from terrible pain and guilt. The pain and sense of loss you are feeling now is normal; but trust me when I tell you that it will get better with time. And in time you will be able to see it not as an opportunity lost, but as a lucky escape.

wordweaver - no offence taken re the 'marriage' remark. It does feel like a marriage in many ways - I often find myself referring to DP as "my husband" just because it's the best way to describe him I guess. (I hate the word 'partner')

To continue with your delightful cooking/saucepan metaphor, I just don't feel ready to take the pan (OM) off the hob yet! I can't. Whether it's self-destructive or not, I don't know, but I still enjoy thinking about the OM even though I know of course it's not going to help me forget him. I like to replay conversations we had, looks of his, gestures, touches - I suppose to try and keep that feeling that he gave me alive inside me. I know that probably sounds pathetic and it's not helping me focus on my DP but I think it's just going to take time, isn't it? I don't know. I miss him. Sorry.

ilovemyteddy thanks but I really feel anything but strong. I've written the OM two texts today - altho' have not sent them. Just writing the words down felt like I had satisfied some kind of urge. I just can't bare that he never replied to my email - to let me know what he was thinking, to say 'okay' or 'i understand' or 'take your time' or even 'piss off'. It doesn't feel "closed".
Arrrgh. This is so hard.

And, wordweaver, if he lived around the corner and I knew he was going to stay around the corner then yes I know I'd feel a lot better.
So it doesn't sound like I've quite killed this EA yet does it?

As for the sex thing - I know. Not the right person to be fantasising about. I'm trying to think what celebrities might work... I guess I should just try looking into my DP's eyes. But I have found it pretty hard to feel connected with him in that way recently. I do it more to please him. And that makes me feel incredibly guilty and sad.

We had a nice evening. We didn't really talk about anything properly - DP wanted to talk about the kids because he's been away from them for so long. And I realised our dinner out wasn't the right time to bring up a lot of stuff.

One thing: would you recommend I definitely do NOT mention OM to DP? I don't think I want to. It feels like there are enough other issues that we need to work through. But by not telling my DP about him does that mean I'm still being deceptive?

Guess I'm having a weak day today.

wordweaver: "The feelings you got from OM were ones that made you feel wonderful, and therefore grieving over losing him, however odd it might sound, also contains those feelings. Saying to yourself 'I will never see him again' causes pain, but that pain keeps alive in your emotions the feeling of loving him."
Spot on.