Archers thread #150: For whom the sausage rolls: George over a Berrow, Fallon & Harrison seek new lease on life, is it all a Fête Accompli? Discuss The Snivelling Simpletons, sorry, The Archers, here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think people frequently miss their own weddings because of a morning quickie while in a plaster cast, or other unusual views.

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For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for title suggestions. I basically took @OverArmour's excellent suggestion and managed to shoehorn in snivelling simpleton, gloriously coined by @Eastie77Returns to refer to Lee in the first instance.

@WitcheryDivine suggested Recharging, Red Kites and The Man They Call Ron, is Ambridge becoming an earthly paradise or a hell on earth? which seems as good a place as any to kick off our discussions! Ron = Rob, a fortuitous typo on a previous thread. It does feel a bit as if we're marking time before he turns up again. Odd to do what could be a high profile storyline over the summer holidays when a lot of people will be away, but depending on your point of view, maybe that's a blessing!

Whither George? Is he shaping up to be Andrew Tate mark 2?

Everybody looking forward to Ferret Fun at the Fête? Me neither.

Over to you!

wouldn't any mother inHelen's position be similarly protective of her sons at this point?

Most would probably make less fuss and noise about it while doing do a better job, frankly.
As for the tone policing: Helen was unpleasant and unstable long before she homed in on Rob (married, and she knew it) like a sex-seeking missile and used her son as a bargaining chip to stave off criticism from her family. ‘Nutty’ is relatively charitable, unless having at one time been abused gives her a free pass for life in terms of stupid behaviour and monumental self-absorption.
This time round, she deserves everything she gets.

Back to Tony - a couple of things again pointing to early dementia…. Didn’t he have some issues with his shoes laces or something a few days ago (Pat offering to help and making him cross). And seems there was a bit of a thing made about his age and doing all the milking yesterday (at first thought maybe Pip was being compassionate but then woke up!)

'Nutty' is a word I understand to mean behaving in an irrational way. I don't think Helen is behaving irrationally in wanting to keep George safe from Rob, but unfortunately she's misjudged this. All very well not telling Jack, who is much younger, but Henry's 12 and has access to the internet and a degree of independence. She should have sat him down a long time ago and talked it all through.

George most definitely should be driving. I live in a farming area and anyone with glancing acquaintance with a farm is on the road in a tractor at 16. And passed their actual driving test at 17. Those of us who weren't in farming were the laggers. In fact standard 17th birthday gifts are driving lessons.
Plus George would want to drive to shore up his self perceived machismo

Agreed but we haven't heard him pass his test have we?

So I cant say Nutty but Snivelling Simpleton is ok ?

I never found Helen to be unpleasant or unstable - vulnerable and misguided at times however.
Opinions differ.

This point is central to any regular listener/ viewer discussion of TA or indeed any soap isn't it?

Of course we know they are fictional characters, and discuss the creative process at times. But can only really debate storylines as if they were real people - otherwise what are we judging against?!

@Bubbylana "So I cant say Nutty but Snivelling Simpleton is ok ?"

I'm assuming "snivelling simpletons" is a collective for the entire village population? "Nutty" to describe an abused woman is somewhat different.

I know we all moan about Helen, but George calling her a nag to Henry made me so cross. I think this is all being done quite well, I must say.

I realise that George is cultivating Henry for a purpose (yet to be fully revealed) but the dynamic of older boys - in their late teens or even early 20s - hanging out with younger ones is something I’ve heard about too often, usually in true crime documentaries, and never in a good way.

It seems simultaneously very much a power thing yet also an indication of George's own failure to transition to adulthood. Where are the friends of his own age? We don’t hear about them. He just mooches around the village and annoys Brad, who isn’t a friend anyway, more a plaything to be toyed with and co-opted into George's nasty little schemes.

It’s really very worrying. I can see the SWs planning for him doing something seriously bad at a future point (I don’t mean to Henry, maybe years hence) and a genuinely sensational court case/ prison sentence ensuing.

@RegimentalSturgeon - blaming a woman for her own abuse doesn't get much lower, frankly.

Not everyone. I failed to pass my test until I was 19 (I did try, I just kept failing.) There was no way my father was going to let me drive a piece of kit that cost so much. (I have since driven a tractor.) However, my father was not a Grundy in outlook...

I don't think George has any friends, which is part of the problem - everyone at school took the piss out of him for his parental situation. I suspect George isn't great at being a friend. He's just out for what he can get from people.

If the number George found for Henry is Rob’s (or Miles’) there is no way George wouldn’t know exactly who that was and what the implications of putting Henry in contact would be. He would know all of the details released to the public because there’s no way he wouldn’t have heard the Grundies talking about it, and no way he wouldn’t have googled it. He can’t claim ignorance on this, surely. I’m quite worried for Henry. Not for his safety, but for him being turned against Helen. The thought of Rob and George both manipulating him is really quite chilling.

Of course, it might not have been a Titchener number at all, though I can’t think who else it could be.

I'm not sure George would really be up on the Rob situation. He was 11 (?) when the stabbing happened, so it's unlikely he would have been privy to any of the background of abuse, although he probably would know about the dramatic denouement.

In any case, his attitude towards women in general hints that he would almost certainly minimise whatever of Rob's behaviour he did know about, victim blame, and not be sympathetic to Helen's current course of action, to say the least. Particularly because he's not an especially bright cookie and the abuse was mostly subtle and covert, until near the end.

I think a lot of people are too over invested in this made up drama its not real life and I think that might be why people listern for escapism. Some of you are defending a women who dosnt exist and are getting upset about it. This is getting too woke for me so im signing out. But before I do everyone has a right to think what they like about a fictional character without some people getting on their high horse about it. Goodbye.

I pulled someone up for describing Kirsty as a dumpy frump (or something). Then I regretted it because I'm so tired of speech being policed on MN and RL and then I'd joined in!

@CurlewKate - I think you should give it a rest. You're not the only feminist on this thread but you act like you're on a mission and it's tiresome.

I'm not sure George would really be up on the Rob situation.

I think George would know only too well about Helen’s history. He wouldn’t necessarily know about the detail of the backdrop of abuse but that wouldn’t stop him from calling her a murderer and laughing at her behind her back. He would enjoy cracking silly jokes about Lee having to be careful in the kitchen and how the cheese isn’t really vegetarian because it prob has drops of blood in it. Etc.

Please let’s not lose the joy from this thread. I know we all have our ups and downs but at the end of the day we are las close as an EastEnders family on here! @Bubbylana please don’t leave! Things will settle down again…

An everyday story of nutty, frumpy, dumpy, snivelling simpleton people.

I'm amazed Helen let George take Henry out, I also thought of horrid stories like that poor boy Breck Bednar.

I can think of quite a few ways you can get someone's number - some people have open social media pages with their number on for example, or Henry could have signed into facebook on George's phone. etc.

I wonder if they're tricking us with this number Henry is after, and it's someone else nothing to do with Ron? I think everyone in Ambridge would be very aware of Helen having stabbed Ron and gone to prison for it, George definitely would, his mum works at the tea rooms on the farm and would have definitely spoken about it at home I think.
I am definitely meaner about and less forgiving of characters in the Archers (or any soap) than I would be of people in real life. Helen has never been at all likeable in my opinion. The whole family is awful and I think getting worse - I couldn't believe Pat wanting more time to think about 'the pros and cons' of Johnny's opportunity! He's a grown man! For once in his life Tom was the sensible and non-selfish person in that conversation!

Yes, and don’t forget that Helen and Emma had struck up an unlikely friendship due to Keira and Henry being in the same class at school. They had regular play dates and meetings for coffee etc. It’s one of the things Rob stopped Helen doing and Emma will have had a fair bit to say about it at home!

henwee's bio dad?

but how would he find out at that age?

I don't think Pip was involved in that discussion, was she?

I suspect it's slightly more likely that Henwee is going to call Miles, mostly because it's more likely that it would be possible to find a number for him online.

Technically, if he were to phone either Miles or Ron, they should both put an end to the call immediately because of the court order. But they won't, of course.